AvE campaign/setting in Cyrodiil

Eorea

Yeah, I know. I already know I'll be massacred for this... but I'm going to say it anyway.

We have a guest campaign and a Home campaign right now. That's cool and all, but I don't have any interest in AvA. I just want to explore. I want to someday see the inside of the White Gold Tower and all that stuff, but I never will because I don't AvA seriously. I will never find a guild to take me, I'll never find the skill to do it myself, I'll never be able to avoid getting killed long enough to see anything at all in the Cyrodiil zone. Could we not have a campaign that is AvE? Sometimes I go in the zone when drunk to have a good laugh, but I don't survive much (the reason I need to be drunk first- low threshold for AvA death), much less long enough to see some of the areas in detail. I don't even care if there are quests. I don't care if the cities are devoid of all life and in ruins. I know that many could counter with a "Why not AvA flag in the AvE zones?" other than the fact that you don't see other players from other factions in your home zones. Anyway, these are my woes as a roleplayer. I know my ventings here are going to invite all the rampant ire and strongly worded abuse I see all over these forums, and I'm prepared for that. I just don't want to be shut out of a full quarter of this beautiful game because I'm not good at killing other player avatars or coping with being constantly steamrolled when all I'm doing is looking at the uniquely colored mudcrabs in this small pond I found.

Go on. I'm ready for all the L2P and GTFO NOOB and FILTHY CASUAL from you AvA experts. I'm admitting I'm bad at AvA. I'm admitting I'm only here for the roleplay and the scenery. I know you want to rip out my spleen and eat it in full, blind nerdrage, but I'm still going to search for commiseration if it's to be had anywhere.

Edited for punctuation error.

sylviermoone

I've done quite a few of the PvE quests in Cyrodil, and they are quite fun. I'm not super into PvP, so I sneak a LOT and hope I don't get caught.

I also do what I call the "Skyshard Shuffle" through Cyrodil. I just think of the other players as incredibly aggro NPC's, and sneak and hide as much as I can. :-)

While it's terribly frustrating to die a whole bunch, at least when you're killed by another player in Cyrodil, it doesn't degrade your armor and stuff. The little bit of actual PvP'ing I've done there is when I happen upon my faction storming a castle, and I just hide and wait for stragglers, or once when I found the bridge to the Imperial City, I just sat there and killed folks trying to get across. That was fun, until that particular faction sent a mob of vets after me (I was like lvl 20).

I feel your pain here. I'd probably play PvP more if I were a higher level (now I'm at 30). It just feels sort of useless to be there at this level, as I'm perpetually getting ganked by v8's.

Also, "blind nerdrage" is about the most quotable thing I've read today. Thanks for the chuckle!

Eorea

@sylviermoone‌: Ha. I'm a Khajiit. Why am I not sneaking more? That's a good idea since skyshards are among the few reasons I go to Cyrodiil at all. I guess I just forget sneaking is a thing... not to mention it doesn't seem to work well against those pesky VR levels.

Polyscikosis

you are here for the ROLEPLAY but REFUSE to ROLEPLAY the war???

thats golden.... truly

Eorea

I'll roleplay the war, but not by being ganked by people who are not roleplaying the war with me.

rotiferuk

Eorea wrote: »

Yeah, I know. I already know I'll be massacred for this... but I'm going to say it anyway.

We have a guest campaign and a Home campaign right now. That's cool and all, but I don't have any interest in AvA. I just want to explore. I want to someday see the inside of the White Gold Tower and all that stuff, but I never will because I don't AvA seriously. I will never find a guild to take me, I'll never find the skill to do it myself, I'll never be able to avoid getting killed long enough to see anything at all in the Cyrodiil zone. Could we not have a campaign that is AvE? Sometimes I go in the zone when drunk to have a good laugh, but I don't survive much (the reason I need to be drunk first- low threshold for AvA death), much less long enough to see some of the areas in detail. I don't even care if there are quests. I don't care if the cities are devoid of all life and in ruins. I know that many could counter with a "Why not AvA flag in the AvE zones?" other than the fact that you don't see other players from other factions in your home zones. Anyway, these are my woes as a roleplayer. I know my ventings here are going to invite all the rampant ire and strongly worded abuse I see all over these forums, and I'm prepared for that. I just don't want to be shut out of a full quarter of this beautiful game because I'm not good at killing other player avatars or coping with being constantly steamrolled when all I'm doing is looking at the uniquely colored mudcrabs in this small pond I found.

I think this is a good idea. There are too many campaigns anyway and not enough "hardcore" (ROFLMHO) PvPers to fill them all.

Eorea wrote: »

Go on. I'm ready for all the L2P and GTFO NOOB and FILTHY CASUAL from you AvA experts. I'm admitting I'm bad at AvA. I'm admitting I'm only here for the roleplay and the scenery. I know you want to rip out my spleen and eat it in full, blind nerdrage, but I'm still going to search for commiseration if it's to be had anywhere.
Edited for punctuation error.

I have a feeling the incoherent babbling of the nerd rage swarm will be hitting soon......... probably in text speak, just duck behind the parapet and / or deploy a big wooden spoon.

Gisgo

Eorea wrote: »

I'll roleplay the war, but not by being ganked by people who are not roleplaying the war with me.

And how do you know they arent?
If anything you are the one out of character by wanting to be safe in Cyrodiil.

Eorea

Gisgo wrote: »

Eorea wrote: »

I'll roleplay the war, but not by being ganked by people who are not roleplaying the war with me.

And how do you know they arent?

Because you're not partied with or communicating with me. You might be roleplaying it with others, but not with me. I turn into a characterless, faceless, dead Khajiit for your roleplay when I am ganked. That means that we are not roleplaying with one another, we are roleplaying AT one another (or more specifically, you are roleplaying AT ME, as I did not get a choice to join in voluntarily), which is not what I'm looking for.

Gisgo

Doesnt make much sense... i think your definition of "roleplaying" is a bit sketched.

Just say you dont like to get ganked so we can answer dont go to Cyrodiil, there is no need to bring the roleplaying argument as an excuse.

Eorea

The point of the post is that I don't want to be locked out of a full quarter of the game just because I'm level 36 and everyone else is level VR12. You didn't get to VR12 by PvPing, that's for sure.

sylviermoone

@Eorea‌: went to Cyrodil last night. Everything was fine, sneaking around collecting books and skyshards, and then I decided to try and join in my faction taking a keep.

Totally ganked by a VR12.

I totally understand that its PvP, but seriously. I saw that I was way over my head, was trying to sneak away to go back to questing on my own, and it was like the player that got me said "Hmm....I'm the highest level in the game, who around here is the lowest level I can find and kill?" I don't mind dying, either. What I mind is getting ruthlessly beaten on by folks that I have absolutely no chance to match.

So, my lesson: stay away from war activities, keep looking for my books and gathering skyshards, only enter combat when I have the upper hand. :-)

Glad my post gave you ideas on ways to enjoy Cyrodil without getting slaughtered so much!

wrlifeboil

Eorea wrote: »

The point of the post is that I don't want to be locked out of a full quarter of the game just because I'm level 36 and everyone else is level VR12. You didn't get to VR12 by PvPing, that's for sure.

You don't like the "one size fits all" strat?

wrlifeboil

sylviermoone wrote: »

@Eorea‌: went to Cyrodil last night. Everything was fine, sneaking around collecting books and skyshards, and then I decided to try and join in my faction taking a keep.

Totally ganked by a VR12.

I totally understand that its PvP, but seriously. I saw that I was way over my head, was trying to sneak away to go back to questing on my own, and it was like the player that got me said "Hmm....I'm the highest level in the game, who around here is the lowest level I can find and kill?" I don't mind dying, either. What I mind is getting ruthlessly beaten on by folks that I have absolutely no chance to match.

So, my lesson: stay away from war activities, keep looking for my books and gathering skyshards, only enter combat when I have the upper hand. :-)

Glad my post gave you ideas on ways to enjoy Cyrodil without getting slaughtered so much!

Believe it or not, some 'hardcore' pvpers in eso think that ganking the leveled up players makes them good pvpers. No joke.

Streega

I wish there was some kind of nerf for killing players waaay below your level, like 10% less XP and AP for every level. Then ganking noobs by VR wouldn't make sense anymore. Want real PvP and earn XP, try someone your own size.
I'm a crafter/explorer type but I don't mind PvP, if in form of arenas or daily events where/when you can participate or not (I usually don't). On the other side: whole Tamriel is at war, so as a true RP I have to admit that a PvP zone in Cyrodill is a fully understandable solution. But maybe there could be some kind of ceasefire once a week for players like me and Eorea? Six hours of non-PvP time in Cyrodill to regroup, repair your war machines, heal your wounded and stuff like that? What you think?

Gisgo

You can have a one hour peace treaty for X-mas.

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Believe it or not, some 'hardcore' pvpers in eso think that ganking the leveled up players makes them good pvpers. No joke.

Believe it or not, some not so "hardcore" pvpers attack any enemy in sight, no matter their level, because Cyrodiil is a warzone and you arent less of an enemy for being a lowbie.

sylviermoone

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Believe it or not, some 'hardcore' pvpers in eso think that ganking the leveled up players makes them good pvpers. No joke.

o.O

I guess I don't understand how it would be enjoyable to go out of one's way at max level to kill someone at a way lower level.

I kind of wish some of the campaigns were level based. I think I would have more enjoyment if I knew that the players I came in contact with, and thus had to fight, were near enough to my own level to make it a "fair" fight. We had 2 lvl 30's last night, and we were struggling together against the Vr5 NPC's. There is absolutely NO WAY we can take down a Vr10+.

That said, I realize that isn't a preferred solution for everyone. Just an idea that would make it more fun for me.

sylviermoone

Streega wrote: »

I wish there was some kind of nerf for killing players waaay below your level, like 10% less XP and AP for every level. Then ganking noobs by VR wouldn't make sense anymore. Want real PvP and earn XP, try someone your own size.
I'm a crafter/explorer type but I don't mind PvP, if in form of arenas or daily events where/when you can participate or not (I usually don't). On the other side: whole Tamriel is at war, so as a true RP I have to admit that a PvP zone in Cyrodill is a fully understandable solution. But maybe there could be some kind of ceasefire once a week for players like me and Eorea? Six hours of non-PvP time in Cyrodill to regroup, repair your war machines, heal your wounded and stuff like that? What you think?

Or this. If instead of level based campaigns, there was a penalty in XP and/or AP for tanking low levels, that could work.

I mean, in the PvE world, loot and experience are lowered when killing NPC's/creatures or doing a quest that is significantly below your level.

Gisgo

It already works like that the higher the level/rank the more alliance points you pay when killed.

There isnt a conspirancy of high levels to kill low levels, you just happened to be on the way of someone higher level than you.

What they should do is to buff everyone to VR5, just like they did with npcs.

leeux

I think that this kind of suggestion should be made using the in game /feedback system. If not, it wont be heard by the game devs.

And I totally agree with you @Eorea‌.

joshisanonymous

Some tips:

• Join or guest on campaigns that are heavily in favor of your alliance. Many low population campaigns are almost completely run by one alliance alone. You can use esostats.com/ to find them.
• Then, make sure to use the map to figure out where battles are taking place, if there are any to begin with. You'll see crossed swords where there are larger fights and keeps will have a little fire thing around them. Avoid those areas.
• Also, pay close attention to supply lines (the colored lines running from keep to keep on the map). They will be solid if the owner can port there, dotted if they recently lost the ability to port, and clear if they no longer own the keep. This will tell you quite a bit about where players are hanging out. Generally, enemies will port to the keeps at the furthest extent of their controlled territory and travel over land to enemy keeps from there. You can avoid all those players easily by taking the scenic route to locations well into their territory. I know it sounds counterintuitive to go further into enemy territory to avoid enemies, but it's how it works in fake war.
• Some enemies live to gank PvEers. This means they hang around quest markers, dungeons, and skyshards. Always always sneak when you're in these areas. You still have to keep a good distance, but they aren't likely to catch you off guard. The only time sneak drops is when you're fighting a mob, talking to an NPC, or absorbing a skyshard.
• Play during slow hours. On low population campaigns, that's likely to be all hours. Otherwise, just check the population bars before porting into Cyrodiil.
• If you want to see the Imperial City (when it comes out) or anything behind an enemy's scroll gate, log in during busy hours for your alliance. When the population bar seems out of wack and your alliance has more than the others, chances are the gates are open and you can walk right through them. The easiest way would be to ask for a group (zerg groups are too disorganized to care if you know what you're doing or if you're able to actually stay with the group) and simply follow the largest clump you can find. Being in the group will show you exactly where they are on the map. Chances are there are a large number of people camping the scroll gate, allowing you to sneak right through, or they're beyond the gate, making it even easier. When the Imperial City launches, this will likely be the best way to check that out, too.

The thing is, you don't have to be good at PvP at all to see everything you've mentioned. Zerging to see behind the scroll gates or to see the Imperial City requires very very little skill; you should only die in a zerg if you decide to play offensively; simply stay near the largest clump of players at all times and get out of the way of large red circles on the ground. For other areas, Cyrodiil is so large that it's pretty easy to avoid getting ganked, particularly now while populations are still low due to PvPers still leveling. If you get to something you want to see, get spotted and ganked, check out another spot in a completely different area of the map. That player who ganked you is probably not making the rounds to every PvE spot on the map, because that would be insanely time consuming.

You can definitely enjoy Cyrodiil by doing these things. You can even enjoy roleplaying there with friends. There are lots of random buildings and such across the land that are not hot spots for anything whatsoever. Go hang out there and enjoy the change in scenery.

On a side note, I am curious about RPPvP, and just RP in general, though. I've never RPed but I have an RP guild that I've yet to actually play with because I was busy leveling and thinking up a story for my character. My concept of RPing was that you literally play the game as usual, but everything you say and do is informed by the character you've made up. So, if you're PvPing ICly, you'd literally PvP but your speech and such would by that of your character, pretty much as Gisgo described it. But you're saying that's not how it's supposed to work, and I've heard of RPers setting up staged PvP that sounds more like a war re-enacted than just playing the game ICly. My guild also seems to RP almost exlusively at one tavern instead of going through PvE content ICly. Is this actually how it's supposed to work? Seems.. odd, to take the game out of the game to RP when it seems like you can play and RP at the same time. Honestly curious about this.

Edit: Also, for what it's worth, in NA, Skull Crusher is the unofficial RP campaign and is completely owned by AD almost 24/7. That might work for you if you're AD. I know a lot of RPers were trying to get everyone to change it to Volendrung, too, so there might be a lot of like-minded players there. I think AD owns that map, too.

wrlifeboil

Gisgo wrote: »

You can have a one hour peace treaty for X-mas.

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Believe it or not, some 'hardcore' pvpers in eso think that ganking the leveled up players makes them good pvpers. No joke.

Believe it or not, some not so "hardcore" pvpers attack any enemy in sight, no matter their level, because Cyrodiil is a warzone and you arent less of an enemy for being a lowbie.

Uh huh.

I'd like to see an instance where comparably rated teams square off against each other. Then we all can give the best pvpers their due in epeen.

Otherwise, they may as well just be thugs ganking leveled up players for ap.

joshisanonymous

Streega wrote: »

I wish there was some kind of nerf for killing players waaay below your level, like 10% less XP and AP for every level. Then ganking noobs by VR wouldn't make sense anymore. Want real PvP and earn XP, try someone your own size.
I'm a crafter/explorer type but I don't mind PvP, if in form of arenas or daily events where/when you can participate or not (I usually don't). On the other side: whole Tamriel is at war, so as a true RP I have to admit that a PvP zone in Cyrodill is a fully understandable solution. But maybe there could be some kind of ceasefire once a week for players like me and Eorea? Six hours of non-PvP time in Cyrodill to regroup, repair your war machines, heal your wounded and stuff like that? What you think?

@Streega That would never ever happen. But, as I've pointed out, you can pretty easily avoid PvP in Cyrodiil.

Gisgo

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Uh huh.

I'd like to see an instance where comparably rated teams square off against each other. Then we all can give the best pvpers their due in epeen.

Otherwise, they may as well just be thugs ganking leveled up players for ap.

Your point being?
Enemies are enemies.
If you have a yellow/red shield on your head and i can kill you i will, or die trying.
Now argue that im not RPing correctly.

Eorea

Gisgo wrote: »

Your point being?
Enemies are enemies.
If you have a yellow/red shield on your head and i can kill you i will, or die trying.
Now argue that im not RPing correctly.

I'm not going to argue that you're RPing incorrectly, but I am going to argue that you are not RPing with other people.

Gisgo

Eorea wrote: »

I'm not going to argue that you're RPing incorrectly, but I am going to argue that you are not RPing with other people.

This is because you dont see me killing you as a mutual act of roleplay, but it really is.
And if we want to stick with roleplaying, this attitude towards pvp on the forum sounds like in game cowardy to me.
Your character is afraid of the enemy.

wrlifeboil

Gisgo wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Uh huh.

I'd like to see an instance where comparably rated teams square off against each other. Then we all can give the best pvpers their due in epeen.

Otherwise, they may as well just be thugs ganking leveled up players for ap.

Your point being?
Enemies are enemies.
If you have a yellow/red shield on your head and i can kill you i will, or die trying.
Now argue that im not RPing correctly.

The point being that skill should be rewarded, not just my group of four VR10s can take on and massacre twenty leveled up players.

Gisgo

wrlifeboil wrote: »

The point being that skill should be rewarded, not just my group of four VR10s can take on and massacre twenty leveled up players.

No the point of this thread was much different.
It was "i want to explore Cyrodiil without being ganked because im an RPer".
Like if being an RPer should grant you immunity from the war. And how is that RPing anymore?

Your point about skill etc. should be discussed into one of the many "arena/structured pvp" threads.

HandofBane

I have done the RP thing for a long time, and PvP for far longer. You know what makes a good PvPer? Here's a hint - it isn't the ability to click faster than other people, the ability to run macros to shortcut your skills, running addons to show you more info for what's going on, or anything like that. The thing that makes a good PvPer is not being afraid to die horribly because another player got luckier than you in a fight.

Yes, dying repeatedly can get frustrating, but what makes it any more frustrating dying to a player vs dying to any tougher NPC fight out in the world? They can't trash talk you here cross-faction, and the "you died" screen looks no different from what happens when you get slapped around by a boss in a delve.

The first step is going in and realizing that while some fights can be won by specific mechanics going off, most combat with other players boils down to luck (especially with so many broken or delayed effect abilities ingame right now). Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't, at the end of the day it really doesn't matter as long as you are willing to get up, brush yourself off, and charge right back in to show those filthy Covenant/Dominion/Pact players that you aren't going to let a little bit of bad luck stop you from achieving whatever goals you may have in Cyrodiil.

The biggest flaw in this game related to PvP is that we cannot duel players from our own faction - because *that* is the best tool to teach people what different skills do against other players, and what kind of things work or don't work to counter them. Player skill does factor in, but given a choice between an ounce of skill or an ounce of luck, I will take the luck on my side any day.

Streega

@joshisanonymous,
I totally agree with you and I think your tips are most useful, but I'm a working gurl and just don't have time to play hide and seek with some mindless apes with hudge muscles but no honor and reason. When I used to play PvP (a lot of CS, some TF and LoL) it was because I wanted to, not because I had no choice. Besides, I don't do PvP anymore - my father died recently, I have two rescue cats, and it has changed me. I don't mind killing NPCs, but when I know a real person is behind - it's not fun anymore. Kind of PSTD, maybe.
If there was some way to explore Cyrodill safely, ESO would be a perfect game for me - even with all those lags, bugs, bots and campers. I bought it mainly because I wanted to see whole Tamriel. Now I'm thinking of cancelling subscripton... Nah, I won't do it, but all those nasty things plus "closed" Cyrodill is ruining the game for me.

Streega

Gisgo wrote: »

Your point being?
Enemies are enemies.
If you have a yellow/red shield on your head and i can kill you i will, or die trying.
Now argue that im not RPing correctly.

Yep, you are a thug. If you were RP'er or a real soldier you would know that engaging in combat is the last option when you can avoid it. War isn't cheap, you know.

EDIT: spelling and stuff

Gisgo

Streega wrote: »

Yep, you are thug. If you were RP'er or a real soldier you would know that engaging in combat is the last option when you can avoid it. War isn't cheap, you kow.

How does this make any sense?