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The Markarth DLC and Update 28 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/
Unsubbed before patch, and as a result of the upgrade we are re-subscribing
My wife and I had decided to (and did) unsubscribe and play out our remaining 3 weeks before leaving. That was a week or so ago, and the reason for our decision was the bot swam that appeared to be totally out of control and ZOS was saying and appeared to be doing nothing to address it.
We decided that if ZOS would begin a policy of providing feedback on how they were doing in the war on bots (not what they are doing, just if they are making progress - something like FFXI)
or
If they would take some action that showed they were in fact doing something to combat the bots.
We would renew our subscription if at least one of those things happened.
As of yesterdays upgrade we have seen that they are actively fighting the bots. Yesterday there were NO bots in K. Roost. The day before there were swarms. Today, there are bots in K. Roost again, but they are different - it appears ZOS has at least temporarily blocked the use of fast travel, subterranean travel, flying, etc... The bots today all are using simple player mechanics for moving, they are moving in what appears to be navmesh patterns, and they move to the material spawn location, pause (attempt to harvest?) and then move to the next location - they don't appear to be able to detect if a material is present without actually moving into range to attempt to harvest it.
So, anyway, the point is that ZOS did SOMETHING, and that something had an impact - a big impact. I don't know if they will win the war, I don't know if by tomorrow things will be even worse than they were before the upgrade. But, ZOS has met our criteria - a visible action that shows they are at least actively fighting - which was not obvious before.
As far as the upgrade itself goes - yup, there are some glitches with it. I am amazed that so many appear to think it would be 100% flawless. I am sure ZOS will put out another patch in a few days to fix the most blatant glitches. I am also sure ZOS will not rebalance the game in the next few days because people don't like the "nerfs" and "buffs". And that is fine with me. I will play the game the way ZOS has it balanced at any point in time. To me and my wife "unbalanced" is a point of view - there is no right or wrong - for us. If the balancing is that important to you, maybe you should go back to Wow where they never "nerf" your favorite class... (/sarcasm)
Anyway - we are going to subscribe and stay with the game as long as we can or as long as the game continues to be "fun" to play (for us). We will assume that ZOS will eventually get the bot situation under control. We will at least give them our support and a chance to succeed.
We decided that if ZOS would begin a policy of providing feedback on how they were doing in the war on bots (not what they are doing, just if they are making progress - something like FFXI)
or
If they would take some action that showed they were in fact doing something to combat the bots.
We would renew our subscription if at least one of those things happened.
As of yesterdays upgrade we have seen that they are actively fighting the bots. Yesterday there were NO bots in K. Roost. The day before there were swarms. Today, there are bots in K. Roost again, but they are different - it appears ZOS has at least temporarily blocked the use of fast travel, subterranean travel, flying, etc... The bots today all are using simple player mechanics for moving, they are moving in what appears to be navmesh patterns, and they move to the material spawn location, pause (attempt to harvest?) and then move to the next location - they don't appear to be able to detect if a material is present without actually moving into range to attempt to harvest it.
So, anyway, the point is that ZOS did SOMETHING, and that something had an impact - a big impact. I don't know if they will win the war, I don't know if by tomorrow things will be even worse than they were before the upgrade. But, ZOS has met our criteria - a visible action that shows they are at least actively fighting - which was not obvious before.
As far as the upgrade itself goes - yup, there are some glitches with it. I am amazed that so many appear to think it would be 100% flawless. I am sure ZOS will put out another patch in a few days to fix the most blatant glitches. I am also sure ZOS will not rebalance the game in the next few days because people don't like the "nerfs" and "buffs". And that is fine with me. I will play the game the way ZOS has it balanced at any point in time. To me and my wife "unbalanced" is a point of view - there is no right or wrong - for us. If the balancing is that important to you, maybe you should go back to Wow where they never "nerf" your favorite class... (/sarcasm)
Anyway - we are going to subscribe and stay with the game as long as we can or as long as the game continues to be "fun" to play (for us). We will assume that ZOS will eventually get the bot situation under control. We will at least give them our support and a chance to succeed.
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Duckfather✭✭Welcome back! I'm glad to see that your priorities there are Fun. Most people seem to forget that this is a game and you're meant to enjoy yourselves :-)
Also, it's good to hear that there has been an observable dent in the bots.
Nice one :-) -
coryevans_3b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You may want to wait another 2 weeks for them to fix everything they broke with the patch. -
Welcome back
Hope you enjoy your stay in Tamriel The statement "if you put enough monkeys behind enough typewriters... sooner or later one will produce the works of Shakespeare" has sadly been proven utterly wrong by the internet... -
Lonestryder✭✭✭I, too, noticed a significant improvement in the bot population since the patch (at least in the areas I played).
It was so refreshing and I had forgotten how many harvestable items there were when the game first went live - good things!
But like the OP mentions, this bot war will endure. Let's hope the devs can keep it contained while they battle it out. -
coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »You may want to wait another 2 weeks for them to fix everything they broke with the patch.
I don't expect everything to ever be fixed. I just expect to see progress - two steps forward and one step back.
Reading the forums, it looks like there are a page or two of steps back with the upgrade, compared to 10 steps forward. I will take that as progress and be happy to wait for the next shuffle. -
Although it's great if ZOS actually did something to fight the bots, I wouldn't raise the banner for this battle just yet. The hackers doing these exploits are a resourceful bunch and don't give up that easily. Let's see what happens after about a week.
I completely understand and agree with what you said, except, I don't expect that ZOS will ever "win the war", I just want to know that they are waging it and hopefully making some progress. Prior to the upgrade there was no real evidence other than "we are working on it" that anything was being done. Now, we can see that they are at least engaged. -
j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO wrote: »Although it's great if ZOS actually did something to fight the bots, I wouldn't raise the banner for this battle just yet. The hackers doing these exploits are a resourceful bunch and don't give up that easily. Let's see what happens after about a week.
I completely understand and agree with what you said, except, I don't expect that ZOS will ever "win the war", I just want to know that they are waging it and hopefully making some progress. Prior to the upgrade there was no real evidence other than "we are working on it" that anything was being done. Now, we can see that they are at least engaged.
Yup... it's going in the right direction... The only "war" neither Zeni, nor any other gaming company for that matter, can ever win is the one against whinners...
I'm not saying some people don't have legit concerns or problems, but you can never satisfy everyone... so there will "always" be people whinning about somethings... The last game that satisfied everyone was "Pong," and even then I'm sure some people tought the brick ball should have been round
Sad but true
Edited by stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO on May 23, 2014 1:35PMThe statement "if you put enough monkeys behind enough typewriters... sooner or later one will produce the works of Shakespeare" has sadly been proven utterly wrong by the internet... -
Chrysolis✭✭✭j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO wrote: ». . . As far as the upgrade itself goes - yup, there are some glitches with it. I am amazed that so many appear to think it would be 100% flawless. I am sure ZOS will put out another patch in a few days to fix the most blatant glitches. I am also sure ZOS will not rebalance the game in the next few days because people don't like the "nerfs" and "buffs". And that is fine with me. I will play the game the way ZOS has it balanced at any point in time. To me and my wife "unbalanced" is a point of view - there is no right or wrong - for us. If the balancing is that important to you, maybe you should go back to Wow where they never "nerf" your favorite class... (/sarcasm)
Anyway - we are going to subscribe and stay with the game as long as we can or as long as the game continues to be "fun" to play (for us). We will assume that ZOS will eventually get the bot situation under control. We will at least give them our support and a chance to succeed.
It's great that you are back and enjoying the game - but, you should understand, that is all we are trying to do as well. As you are in Khenarthi's roost with your wife, I don't think you're in a position to appreciate the changes to the veteran level content. It's not a matter of preference, for many it completely blocks progress or makes it so challenging it's not worth the effort. Until you've experienced that for yourself, I don't think it's fair for you to make snarky value judgments about the issue.
The FPS drop exaggerates this change as well - in fact, I would attach a video of what veteran level content is like, but there is no way I could record with the level of choppiness now being experienced. But I am one of the lucky ones - because I can log into the game without the infinite loading screen. So, again, this isn't a matter of preference, it's a matter of being able to play and enjoy the game.
I think it's a bit funny and kind of tragic that so many people think it's impossible to offer a company critique and support at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.Edited by Chrysolis on May 23, 2014 1:37PM -
I think it's a bit funny and kind of tragic that so many people think it's impossible to offer a company critique and support at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I am totally in favor of critique, and that is not in any way what I was referring to. The majority of comments/posts since the upgrade are of the type of "this is the stupidest *** I have ever seen in any game and ZOS has to be a bunch of morons, and anyone that disagrees with me is a ***". I don't consider those critiques... -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO wrote: »The majority of comments/posts since the upgrade are of the type of "this is the stupidest *** I have ever seen in any game and ZOS has to be a bunch of morons, and anyone that disagrees with me is a ***". I don't consider those critiques...
No, they're just statements. -
Chrysolis✭✭✭Some people are very angry about the changes and angry people don't always express their views in the most constructive ways. I agree that the attacks don't really have a place; however, as far as your own quote:ZOS will not rebalance the game in the next few days because people don't like the "nerfs" and "buffs". And that is fine with me. I will play the game the way ZOS has it balanced at any point in time. To me and my wife "unbalanced" is a point of view - there is no right or wrong - for us. If the balancing is that important to you, maybe you should go back to Wow where they never "nerf" your favorite class... (/sarcasm)
This is also rather demeaning. The regular veteran mobs (think every single thing that you fight in Khenarthi's or beyond, not bosses or special mobs) hit for 400-600 each on health pools of 1800-2400. Two of them is nigh on suicide. If one is a caster, there's a good chance you're just going to get one-shot (About 1500 damage for a fire spell, for example). By every regular mob. I like a challenge, but challenges should be fewer and sought out (like Veteran dungeons) - not forced upon the entire player base post level 50. -
I am both a templar and a night blade - and I am starting up a dn. I am not as passionate about the details of the build (perfect/correct build with perfect/correct rotation) as I am the ability to role play the class in the environment. That is how I play, I do not expect or require you too, have fun your own way. But, in my years in Wow I saw exactly the same complaints - you could almost copy and paste post from there to here and from here to there.
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Chrysolis✭✭✭Frank, I played wow. I've played almost every MMO to date. This doesn't compare, and I don't think that you should insist it does when you're not part of the demographic that's being subjected to the changes.
The way you play is totally valid and should be supported - however, veteran rank content was already quite challenging. Your imperfect build, as you put it, would be wrecked very quickly with these changes, thus limiting your options if you want to progress through the game. My friends in Craglorn are capable of taking on 4 VR 11 mobs as it stands currently - however, leaving craglorn and taking on a pair of VR7s in the world would murder them. This can't be working as intended. -
well, my thread was not intended to start yet another hater thread. It seems that people look for places to moan and groan. I hope a moderator will close my thread and save us yet another clone of the all the whining.
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eventHandler✭✭✭Bugs with new things is to be expected. Breaking old things and losing data is not, especially when the issues were known on the "public" test server. I would expect there to be issues with the trials and Craglorn, and that would be normal. Any changes to existing systems should be thoroughly tested before going live. But testing means adjusting, fixing, or re-balancing the systems/content after collecting data, not just seeing the issues, nodding, and pushing it onto the live server with a satisfied smile and going "ta da!"
Also, if they did things to combat bots and solve speed hacks et cetera, they should have told us about it. That's the kind of thing people would be happy to praise them for getting in the game. I don't play in low level zones anymore atm, so I don't see the bot issues a lot. I do know that when I logged on an alt in Stonefalls, the zone kept crashing and rolling back every 5-10 minutes or less. That used to happen a lot in Coldharbor too, so its not really new to me. And it seemed to be caused by the huge clusters of speed hacking bots that were in Coldharbor when I was playing that zone. I'd imagine they were contributing to the server fits last night (which I don't know if they are resolved or not). -
eventHandler✭✭✭As a well geared tank one level over them, its now the case that three bloodfiends (normal, not elites) can easily take me down if I make even small mistakes. They hit hard. And my point is that I'm a hugely defensive build, so it was normal for me to dps slow and I still do, but now things do seem to hit much harder. I feel sorry for people without armor buffing skills and self heals.
edit: to preempt... I actually like the shield bash changes. It is not a nerf, as they made the intended use work better now (more damage while interrupting). I was not a spam bashing idiot, so I'm glad that I can do more damage with it now while doing what I need to keep things from one-shotting allies. So don't blame it on that.
Oh, and I actually don't mind the challenge. It's just that it gets old when you have to fight through a lot of groups to get to a quest objective, and its supposed to be trash so it was designed to be faster than it is now. I don't know how people without heals will do it.Edited by eventHandler on May 23, 2014 2:33PM -
Chrysolis✭✭✭j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO wrote: »well, my thread was not intended to start yet another hater thread. It seems that people look for places to moan and groan. I hope a moderator will close my thread and save us yet another clone of the all the whining.
If it isn't your intention to start "hater threads", in the future I would suggest not insulting people you disagree with as original posts; especially on matters that you aren't even really aware of. I've been fair to you in my responses and tried to explain in a neutral fashion why everything isn't exactly as you perceive it. -
Kallion✭✭
Thank you so much for that statement!I think it's a bit funny and kind of tragic that so many people think it's impossible to offer a company critique and support at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.
It has been nearly two weeks since I actually did anything in the game and I still can't muster the will to log in. It's mainly because that I live in the southern part of the EU and the server latency is quite punishing. Action game with bugs and PVE supercharged (or imbalanced) mobs combined with a minimum of 200ms (best case scenario) is obviously not a good mix.
ZOS says that we will have an EU server when they deal with the bots. And until that happens, time will pass (likely too long) and most of the EU people will migrate to another game.
I won't repeat the obvious on how a proper launch should have been made, but what I will repeat is that I'll monitor the game's progress and will... reconsider it AFTER the console release. Provided there isn't any other alternative out there by that time. As things are right now, PC and Mac players are simply pay-to-beta-test subjects. I did that extensively for AoC & SWTOR, so I have no further strength to keep on doing it for others. It's a very bad habit to get into.
An MMO should never go Live when its beta testers have repeatedly reported severe game breaking bugs. -
j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO wrote: »As far as the upgrade itself goes - yup, there are some glitches with it. I am amazed that so many appear to think it would be 100% flawless. I am sure ZOS will put out another patch in a few days to fix the most blatant glitches. I am also sure ZOS will not rebalance the game in the next few days because people don't like the "nerfs" and "buffs". And that is fine with me. I will play the game the way ZOS has it balanced at any point in time. To me and my wife "unbalanced" is a point of view - there is no right or wrong - for us. If the balancing is that important to you, maybe you should go back to Wow where they never "nerf" your favorite class... (/sarcasm)
I do agree with you in this point. Seeing how many people posted over the last 24 hours that ESO has the "worst launch" and that Zenimax is the "worst company" made me laugh. Ive been playing games for many years, a lot of different games with different payment forms and ive yet to see any content patch in any game that doesnt add any major bugs. I dont mean to say "its normal deal with it", im just trying to say its not worse than any other game in this point. Give them a few days to sort out the things that got changed/bugged, seeing as the admins in forum are silent makes me think they are actually working on it, just cant give any eta on when it will be fixed or what is broken yet.
About the bots im honest, it doesnt seem to affect me, or maybe i just dont let me affect it. Sure it gets annoying sometimes when you get spam mails or have difficulties to get a kill because bots instantly killing mobs but i noticed being in veteran content cuts this down to a minimum. I never see zone chat spam there, i barely ever see a bot.
In my opinion the main problem about the bots are those that actually buy gold/motifs/upgrade items or whatever else they sell. I do play a subscription game mostly for the fact that it isnt "pay to win" like every free to play game is, so i really hate seeing people interact with goldsellers, be it either buying gold or selling them theirs. I see this more as a problem in the community than a problem of the game company which ofc doesnt mean i dont agree that Zenimax should work on getting rid of them. -
Chrysolis✭✭✭Reposting:So these are Kagouti -
They have just short of 3,900 HP each. These are VR 3 mobs fighting fully passive decked, heavy armor, overcharged sword and board DK.
Sure, potions could be used, or single mobs fought until ultimate came up. But I hardly think that is the point. -
Sure, potions could be used, or single mobs fought until ultimate came up. But I hardly think that is the point.
Ye i mean... how could it be the point to use potions, they are just there to look pretty... or the point to use ultimate for big mobs groups, supposed to 1 shot them all at once. Dare they actually make you use more than one button...
/sarcasm
I do agree that veteran content right now is hard and that groups of more than 2 mobs are overtuned for solo play, however if your argument is that you actually have to use multiple skills or food/potions then i strongly disagree, they are there for a reason, the point IS to use them. -
Chrysolis✭✭✭Sure, potions could be used, or single mobs fought until ultimate came up. But I hardly think that is the point.
Ye i mean... how could it be the point to use potions, they are just there to look pretty... or the point to use ultimate for big mobs groups, supposed to 1 shot them all at once. Dare they actually make you use more than one button...
/sarcasm
I do agree that veteran content right now is hard and that groups of more than 2 mobs are overtuned for solo play, however if your argument is that you actually have to use multiple skills or food/potions then i strongly disagree, they are there for a reason, the point IS to use them.
So your contention is that I should have thousands of potions so that one may be used in every fight? I use them on bosses and in dungeons. I should not have to use consumables in every single pull of regular mobs.
Obviously multiple skills were being used - I only mentioned the lack of an ultimate. Should that be charged up on single pulls as well so that you can ultimate in every fight?
This issue has finally received a response and been noted as an overtuned error. You shouldn't be making personal attacks because people want to bring this to light. -
So your contention is that I should have thousands of potions so that one may be used in every fight? I use them on bosses and in dungeons. I should not have to use consumables in every single pull of regular mobs.
Obviously multiple skills were being used - I only mentioned the lack of an ultimate. Should that be charged up on single pulls as well so that you can ultimate in every fight?
This issue has finally received a response and been noted as an overtuned error. You shouldn't be making personal attacks because people want to bring this to light.
Im not sure where you see a "personal attack", i was explaining why i said it. Potions are there for a reason, they drop from every other mob, are at a lot of npcs and can be crafted for free. Considering the cooldown time is rather short compared to a lot of other games yes, you should carry enough potions to use one maybe not in every but every other pull. You prolly wont need any in single or double pulls, in triple pulls it would be natural to use them the way the potion system in ESO is designed tho.
Im not even sure why you wanted to bring the mob issue "to light" in this post, this post was for the most part about bots, OP even mentioned that he knows theres problems with the patch. Doubt anyone whos in the forums didnt see the tons of posts about the veteran mob change. -
Chrysolis✭✭✭The issue of veteran mobs was brought up in the original post, you even quoted it yourself. If you feel that potions should be necessary for standard fights that's your prerogative, but it's not intended. My potions are usually saved for veteran dungeons, in which entire stockpiles are used liberally.
