DenverRalphy wrote: »

Group requirements are not gatekeeping. Any player can still walk through the gate. As well, any group is free to choose with whom they wish to walk through it. There are numerous reasons groups can require specific conditions. Many if not most of them simply for the good of the mission. And perhaps sometimes it's just cliques being snobby. Not invited to the party for whatever reason? Start one of your own. There are plenty of willing and able bodies lined up to join.

Excellent points. When people claim there is “gatekeeping” in the NM groupfinder, it makes me think of Inego Montoya. “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

Marronsuisse wrote: »

Dislikes

[*] Relics letting you take shortcuts in districts is not conducive to group play, since some players get left behind. Leave the relics for accessing dungeons and discovering cool secrets, etc.

I've commented on this before but I think it bears repeating. This mechanic definitely needs to be one of the things the devs look at when they do their analysis. Especially the Parch relic, that is such a catch 22. Have to traverse the zone to get the relic and constantly hitting dead ends because you need the relic.

Both my accounts it was the last one I got because traversing with a mixed group often left people (myself included) stranded or having to hoof the long way around and the map is...not great.

It has Siphoning Strikes and well it allows you to be in permablock in dungeons and raids.

I like the stacking keys idea, though 10 is far too much.

The goal of the Night Market is to encourage switching between the zone, the Dungeons, and the Trial, and so if players can stack 10 keys, it'd just be encouraging them to hoard from each tier and not actually climb up and down the Night Market "ladder".

I think 3 is a much more reasonable number. It still lets you stack enough for 3 Trial runs back to back, but would still steer you to re-engage with the zone content sooner.

I recommend the change that we can stack keys. Right now we get 1 key from argents which opens dungeon, 3 dungeon completes a gold key for trial. however when done you have to then go back through and redo the argents, dungeons again. You can fill up the whole screen with keys but when you do a dungeon, the linked argents are again needing to be killed for keys. If you on the other hand, farm argents for keys, stacking them up with numbers next to the key for that argent, and same with the dungeons, then players can run dungeons over and over as long as they have needed keys in their stacks. I recommend a max of 10 keys per stack so this doesn't go overboard.

An example

I think this is the best way of doing it. If you permanently unlock the dungeons and trials, then you risk having no one in the districts when someone who hasn't done them is trying to unlock them for the first time

Gabriel_H wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

I spend ~90 - 95% of my in-game time as solo. The other 5% - 10% is running dungeona and trial trifectas. I am quite capable of soloing the mob packs in the NM, as well as doing the daily district quests.

If I have to kill a Brazen or Argent, I go to group finder, setup a group, and wait 2 to 3 minutes for 12 players to fill it. Even if half of them are absolute useless no clue noobs, that's still more than enough to kill a Brazen, and Argent, and a Calamitous. You may run into difficulty with such a group taking on a Skirmish where the Calamitous decides to join, but that's about as bad as it gets.

The Brazen & Argent bosses are taken from dungeons and existing overland, and given a signifant health boost BUT their damage is very much nerfed. If you've had trouble with the groups from group finder clearing those bosses, I would suggest that is the exception and not the norm.

Edit For Clarification: No boss in the NM needs a 36-man zerg.

The fact that you can solo trash moves proves nothing. Neither of us are representative of the average solo player, and being "capable" of doing something doesn't mean the system used to get there isn't clunky.

You seem to think that sitting and waiting for a group fill is "fine", but my entire point is that players shouldn't have to wait or go through the Group Finder just to find the action.

I'm also struggling to find where I mentioned boss health or needing a 36-man zerg. I suggested map visibility to capture the feeling of a zerg, you know, organic momentum found in other group-forward instances like public dungeons.

I can't address any of your points, because none of them have anything to do with my post. You've completely missed my point about the systemic friction around grouping in the Night Market, and instead pivoted to a weird flex about your own skill and how "easy" it is to click a button and wait.

Nah, I'm pretty representative of the average solo player. There isn't some big mystery to it, simply build right.

Sitting an waiting for a group to fill is how 95% of dungeon and trial players DO spend their time. The likes of you and I run in pre-organised groups, but most players do not.

If you have map markers showing "where the action is", that's where everyone will go. i.e. a 36-man zerg. Your points fail to take account that most of the players do just click a button and wait for a group.

The issue isn't the system, it's that you are coming from a place of privilege - earned yes, but still privilege.

Claiming to be "representative of the average solo player" while simultaneously flexing that you have the build or skill to solo group-intended content is a massive contradiction. Most solo players are looking for a way to engage with the zone without the friction of having to go through the Group Finder, not a "git gud" lecture. All this is made only funnier from you somehow calling my desire for a better system for everyone "privilege".

The argument that "everyone else waits in queues, so you should too" is exactly why you're part of the problem. I'm proposing a way to evolve the Night Market experience beyond "click button and wait".

As for the "36-man zerg", that's a boogeyman argument. Dolmens, Dragons, Abyssal Geysers, and Volcanic Vents all have map-visible action. Those don't break the game; they create the "hustle-and-bustle" that makes ESO feels like a shared world rather than a series of isolated lobbies.

If your only counter-argument is "the current slow way is the way it's always been", then you haven't addressed anything; you've just expressed a preference for stagnation.

I spend ~90 - 95% of my in-game time as solo. The other 5% - 10% is running dungeona and trial trifectas. I am quite capable of soloing the mob packs in the NM, as well as doing the daily district quests.

If I have to kill a Brazen or Argent, I go to group finder, setup a group, and wait 2 to 3 minutes for 12 players to fill it. Even if half of them are absolute useless no clue noobs, that's still more than enough to kill a Brazen, and Argent, and a Calamitous. You may run into difficulty with such a group taking on a Skirmish where the Calamitous decides to join, but that's about as bad as it gets.

The Brazen & Argent bosses are taken from dungeons and existing overland, and given a signifant health boost BUT their damage is very much nerfed. If you've had trouble with the groups from group finder clearing those bosses, I would suggest that is the exception and not the norm.

Edit For Clarification: No boss in the NM needs a 36-man zerg.