Best Of
Re: Night Market - Week One Notes
It made me happy to read your closing lines. It comes as no surprise to me that challenging group content in an MMO brings players together to tackle it (the core idea behind the term) I'm glad to see the results pleased you and met your expectations.
And here is to hoping that this can influence future decisions as well. More group zones akin to old Craglorn or the Night Market; more challenge and good grind. It's frustrating to die as a DD in the Night Market, but ESO offers you all you need. You can sacrifice 3% DPS and slot a heal or a damage shield. Especially with spell crafting available to every class.
The engagement numbers prove that people rise up to the challenge and become more engaged. No one likes it when the grind for something is quickly concluded in an hour or two with no obstacles on the way. And I am pleased to read that you are sort of adamant when it comes to the difficulty of it. Player characters can be so overpowered nowadays; there must be an appropriate difficulty to even challenge them anymore.
And here is to hoping that this can influence future decisions as well. More group zones akin to old Craglorn or the Night Market; more challenge and good grind. It's frustrating to die as a DD in the Night Market, but ESO offers you all you need. You can sacrifice 3% DPS and slot a heal or a damage shield. Especially with spell crafting available to every class.
The engagement numbers prove that people rise up to the challenge and become more engaged. No one likes it when the grind for something is quickly concluded in an hour or two with no obstacles on the way. And I am pleased to read that you are sort of adamant when it comes to the difficulty of it. Player characters can be so overpowered nowadays; there must be an appropriate difficulty to even challenge them anymore.
Dracane
2
Re: Night Market - Gossamer Dissection
Yeah, I just tanked this last night, and the thing is, DPS and healers don't even last long enough to make it to the spider to die. The spider's pull does damage, and each tick, about once every two seconds, does about 20%-30% of the average DPS' max HP. With DPS also having to contend with regular damage from adds, it just seems like a free player kill whenever it happens. I don't know what Zenimax intended for this fight; I'm under the impression player deaths should be a punishment for *** a mechanic up, not a reliable and inevitable feature in a boss fight. This sucked. It wasn't fun, and it didn't feel skill based. There's nothing I hate more as a tank than watching my team die due to factors beyond my control. It makes me feel useless and weak. But then, that's part and parcel of ESO's combat design. Tanks aren't here to protect anyone. We exist just to check the box that enables the content to happen.
xencthlu
1
Re: Night Market - Week One Notes
ESO_player123 wrote: »I don’t understand the criticism about social interaction. In most of the groups I’ve been in many people don’t say a word. You can think of playing in a group as having 11 companions. They just help you with hit points and damage. And you can make them go away when the quest is finished.
Edit: The 11 Companions would be a great guild name!
I think some folks have had a bad experience because not every group is pleasant. Some are very selective and will kick you or avoid you if you do not meet their gear or skills standards. (gatekeeping is real)
Asocial people might find public rejection confusing or difficult to not take personally. They want to experience the Night Market and maybe they want the house, but they are loathed to risk that aggressive behavior that sometimes comes with dealing with strangers. (You can see the aggression in the fora. Imagine what it might be like for them in the game chat where the Devs don't see it.)
The house rewards are often viewed as a great reward by those that do not decorate because they give a quick access to various countries on the map for new characters that had not been there.
On the bad side, the Night Market was billed as an event for everyone when it was introduced. While that bill has been toned down, it still rings in the minds of the players that heard it. If the Night Market had been billed as a new approach to a trial dungeon, this whole scene would have been different. The controversy with solo players would not be.
Maybe there is some gatekeeping in vet dungeons and trials but it’s an overreach to say there is gatekeeping in Night Market pickup groups. It sounds like the anxiety you are describing is from people’s past experiences or biases. Then they decide in advance they don’t like the Night Market.
There is gatekeeping in the Night Markets.
You said: "I don’t understand the criticism about social interaction." Now you say: " Then they decide in advance they don’t like the Night Market."
I offered an answer to your wonder. If you have a predetermined concept/understanding then I cannot say more.
How do you know there is gatekeeping in the Night Market? Have you played it? I have, and I have seen absolutely no gatekeeping. The groups have been casual, friendly, and fun.
It’s funny that most of the criticism on the forum seems to come from people who have not played it.
Yes.
Assuming that someone did not play Night Market because they don't like it is error. I played it in PTS. I played it in Live. I have read the grouping calls in live. That is how I know there is gatekeeping in Night Market.
I’d be curious to hear from others who can relate to your experience. Would anyone else describe grouping in the Night Market as elitist gatekeeping?
I would also like to learn about specific examples of gatekeeping in groups in Event GF. As in what requirements are placed on those trying to join one. I'm not talking about groups for the dungeons or the Trial here. I mean the groups for doing faction/blood in the sand quests, puzzles,key or favor farming etc.
The player I chatted with stated that three groups that were active in the GF for the 'event' had prerequisites. The two that I could verify were asking for specifics. One wanted only CP100 or higher, the other wanted only tanks.
If the group was missing a tank then wanting one is not gatekeeping but ensuring that the group does not wipe over and over and over. If your friend were already in such group, that would be for their benefit as well (especially if they are sub CP 100). The tanks are few and the DPS are many,. I'm a DPS myself, so I really appreciate the works tanks do in NM (and see the difference when one is present in a group).
As for CP 100 requirements, did your friend mention if this was a dungeon or trial group (where it would make more sense)? 99% of the groups for the districts do not have such requirements. I'm sure it's easy to find one without (at least that is my experience on PCNA).
Re: Addressing U50 PTS Combat & Ability Concerns
Are the devs considering adjusting Shattered Path Signet for PvP? As is we are looking at a number of busted builds and miserable play patterns (generally involving LA spam).
If this really is its target power ceiling, then the drawback should be more severe than minor ult drain, which is too easily trivialized in PvP. The healing debuff on Draugrkin for example is a much better balance to high pressure (and more rewarding to successfully build).
If this really is its target power ceiling, then the drawback should be more severe than minor ult drain, which is too easily trivialized in PvP. The healing debuff on Draugrkin for example is a much better balance to high pressure (and more rewarding to successfully build).
xylena
7
Re: Night Market - Week One Notes
Snipped for brevity
Such people likely enjoy doing this type of content because the rewards for the dungeons and trials are not good.
That's true of all content in the game, including zones. But look how angry people got that there is no new zone even though zones empty out a couple weeks after release without new rewards being added. That's the reason they stagger zone rewards.
It's not because zones are unsuccessful or that people didn't enjoy doing them. Zones have already been confirmed as the single most popular content in the game years ago. It is because people have finished them and there's not much reason to immediately replay things you have been playing for a couple weeks, even if you enjoyed yourself.
We have numbers that COULD be inflated because of the way getting Keys seems to work. Like I said before, it's possible people aren't doing certain content because that's what they WANT to be doing, it's because they HAVE to in order to do the Dungeons/Trials. We have no way of knowing how much of that Favor is gotten because of that, and we have no idea if engagement would fall off at all if the Keys were one-time obtained or able to stack. Even ZOS' data can't tell them WHY people are doing certain content, just that it's being done.
Such people likely enjoy doing this type of content because the rewards for the dungeons and trials are not good.
We can't judge something's success from just a few weeks of it being introduced. Most everything is a success at first. But that doesn't necessarily mean it'll maintain that momentum. We won't have a really accurate picture of how successful it really is until closer to the end of the first run.
That's true of all content in the game, including zones. But look how angry people got that there is no new zone even though zones empty out a couple weeks after release without new rewards being added. That's the reason they stagger zone rewards.
It's not because zones are unsuccessful or that people didn't enjoy doing them. Zones have already been confirmed as the single most popular content in the game years ago. It is because people have finished them and there's not much reason to immediately replay things you have been playing for a couple weeks, even if you enjoyed yourself.
Re: Next new content?
They need to fill out the map before we get anything else I don't mind if they make stuff up like Solstice but only after mainland Tamriel is fully in the game. I hate opening up my map and seeing these huge gaps in the map.
Re: Next new content?
Class (Dwemer engineer type pls), skill lines (1h+spell) and new zones would be my priorities
And PLEASE for the love of the nine more character slots!
And PLEASE for the love of the nine more character slots!
ESO Is 12 Years Old And Female Characters Still Can’t Hold Weapons Properly
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Female weapon grip misalignment has existed since release because everything is aligned to the male rig. Clipping and grip misalignment happen across every weapon type on female characters.
But I guess fixing the 5 weapon categories in the game is impossible technology after 12
years. One-handed, two-handed, staves, bows, shields… truly groundbreaking engineering.
At this point whenever I see a new Crown Store weapon pack I just laugh. More than 10 years later and female characters still cannot properly hold weapons, yet ZOS keeps selling crown weapon pack cosmetics like this issue does not exist.
Honestly impressive. Huge MMO, endless cosmetic packs, but one of the most constantly visible character issues in the game is still there after a decade.
Female weapon grip misalignment has existed since release because everything is aligned to the male rig. Clipping and grip misalignment happen across every weapon type on female characters.
But I guess fixing the 5 weapon categories in the game is impossible technology after 12
years. One-handed, two-handed, staves, bows, shields… truly groundbreaking engineering.
At this point whenever I see a new Crown Store weapon pack I just laugh. More than 10 years later and female characters still cannot properly hold weapons, yet ZOS keeps selling crown weapon pack cosmetics like this issue does not exist.
Honestly impressive. Huge MMO, endless cosmetic packs, but one of the most constantly visible character issues in the game is still there after a decade.
SANGUARI
30
Re: Nerfing WW further in Next Update for PvE?!
You know what else can hit 100k+ DPS with only a few button pushes? 1bar DK builds. Other 1bar builds still hit for more than that with Classes that haven't even had a rework yet, and here again people are trying to act like that's actually a comparison. Can we please stop saying WW is too OP when compared to Classes that haven't gotten their rework yet as a reason why it needs to be nerfed? It will be stronger because those Classes HAVE NOT BEEN REWORKED YET. Including other 1bar builds, probably a number of 2bar builds. But we're seeing the same argument with WW now that we saw with DK: "It's too strong compared to X unworked thing so nerf it so it's not so OP!" How are things supposed to be made stronger if people continuously call for nerfs so they're equal to stuff that hasn't been refreshed yet? I genuinely don't understand that thought process of "somehow make reworked X thing better while making sure it's not stronger than unworked Y thing".
No other build, even reworked DK, can get 100k+ DPS on a 6-mil dummy in a solo build, so only with your own buffs. The highest solo DK-parse I've seen is around 75k. And that was a two-bar build. One-bar solo breath build parses around 58k. One-bar arcanist parses around the same. One-bar HA-buld can parse 55k. They can hit over 100k only on a trial dummy, so with group buffs and debuffs. And WW can hit over 100k on a 6-mil dummy, without external buffs.
And on the trial dummy, in the current week, it's getting outparsed by Sorc, with SIgnet+Overload+Monolith+Banner+Status Knife, which heavily inflates its DPS, and by Cro with Goliath, but most people will never be able to double-bash-weave.
So, WW outparses every other build in solo setup, and the majority of builds on the trial dummy, including all one-bar builds, including reworked DK one-bar builds.
And while you might think it's "sad" that there are people who can't even handle 1bar rotations (and let's face it, to get the most out of WW it's not just 'press 1 2 and 3 and you win' it's double casting Fercious Roar to stack for Claw Fury, it's making sure to proc your own Blood Frenzy, it's properly knowing when to use your Execute and when not to, there's the Blood Hunger mechanic, it might not be much to a seasoned player but it's disengenuous to try to say just press 3 buttons and you win), it's been brought up by the devs in the past that the average person doesn't do very high DPS regardless. All this "WW is too strong because it can hit super high numbers with just some button presses" talk is ignoring that most people who play WW will NOT have optimal Gear. They WON'T have a decent Mythic, if they have one at all. They WON'T be paying attention to/refreshing their DoTs properly. They WON'T be doing much of anything other than probably spamming Flaw Fury or Rip and Tear because they "look cool" or something. And they most certainly won't be getting a bunch of buffs from optimized group play because a LOT of people don't do that kind of content. Just look at how many people are saying they don't like the NM because of being ""encouraged"" to group.
If one can't maintain proper one-bar rotation on WW, they won't be able to do that on any other one-bar CPM build, so their DPS will drop by a similar amount. Well, unless the implication is that WW players are significantly below average in skill, so they suffer much more from not being able to execute the rotation. For low-CPM builds: Pluvio already posted my parse with a low-CPM claw-beam build. It's still much higher than the reworked DK breath-build, arcanist beam builds, HA-builds, both one-bar and two-bar.
We can point at what experienced (aka above average and top) players can do and say "this is too much damage" but one has to be able to admit that mot people will NOT be hitting these extreme numbers that people have been showing. What we WILL be seeing is more around the 80-90k damage, and even that's probably a high expectation for most of the playerbase. But we already HAVE other 1bar builds on Live that can EASILY hit those numbers, like so easy it's kinda ridiculous, and that's on Classes that haven't even been reworked yet.
So tell us again how reworked WW being able to hit those numbers is somehow bad when other Classes that haven't even got their refreshes yet can do that and more on a 1bar build? Even though by all means it SHOULD be stronger than non-reworked Classes.
To reiterate: WW outparses any other build in the solo scenario and most of the builds in the optimised group scenario, despite being a one-bar build. So, again, if you weren't implying that WW-players are less skilled than the average ESO population, there's no reason to assume that they will parse lower than other one-bar builds, when those builds technically can't hit 80k (let alone "easily") in the solo scenario, unlike WW.
Re: Shattered Paths Signet Is Problematic
Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Can I bother you to make sure that noone in the combat team takes this too serious and remind them that PvP is a derivative game mode and not an original one, please?
PvP is definitely not a "derivative" game mode lol, it was literally designed as the endgame of ESO at launch.
If Signet is nerfed, there will be another combo of super high burst. Nerfing a piece of equipment can and will never change the mindset of the players.
Just like Warden Charm. The players using it right now will find another to troll kill in Cyrodiil, if the charm is ever removed.
This is the most backwards logic I've ever seen. "We shouldn't nerf things that are over powered because then the meta will shift to something else that's OP" is an insane take.
That's how live service games work. Metas ebb and flow based on what is overperforming at the moment. If we never nerf anything the game gets stale and dies, or you get insane power creep.
