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Re: REQUEST: NM Argent/Dungeon/Trial slight change
HatchetHaro wrote: »I like the stacking keys idea, though 10 is far too much.
The goal of the Night Market is to encourage switching between the zone, the Dungeons, and the Trial, and so if players can stack 10 keys, it'd just be encouraging them to hoard from each tier and not actually climb up and down the Night Market "ladder".
I think 3 is a much more reasonable number. It still lets you stack enough for 3 Trial runs back to back, but would still steer you to re-engage with the zone content sooner.
Yeah, I think starting with 3 or 5 would be good and then bump it up as necessary.
Soarora
2
Re: Night Market - Week One Notes
ESO_player123 wrote: »I don’t understand the criticism about social interaction. In most of the groups I’ve been in many people don’t say a word. You can think of playing in a group as having 11 companions. They just help you with hit points and damage. And you can make them go away when the quest is finished.
Edit: The 11 Companions would be a great guild name!
I think some folks have had a bad experience because not every group is pleasant. Some are very selective and will kick you or avoid you if you do not meet their gear or skills standards. (gatekeeping is real)
Asocial people might find public rejection confusing or difficult to not take personally. They want to experience the Night Market and maybe they want the house, but they are loathed to risk that aggressive behavior that sometimes comes with dealing with strangers. (You can see the aggression in the fora. Imagine what it might be like for them in the game chat where the Devs don't see it.)
The house rewards are often viewed as a great reward by those that do not decorate because they give a quick access to various countries on the map for new characters that had not been there.
On the bad side, the Night Market was billed as an event for everyone when it was introduced. While that bill has been toned down, it still rings in the minds of the players that heard it. If the Night Market had been billed as a new approach to a trial dungeon, this whole scene would have been different. The controversy with solo players would not be.
Maybe there is some gatekeeping in vet dungeons and trials but it’s an overreach to say there is gatekeeping in Night Market pickup groups. It sounds like the anxiety you are describing is from people’s past experiences or biases. Then they decide in advance they don’t like the Night Market.
There is gatekeeping in the Night Markets.
You said: "I don’t understand the criticism about social interaction." Now you say: " Then they decide in advance they don’t like the Night Market."
I offered an answer to your wonder. If you have a predetermined concept/understanding then I cannot say more.
How do you know there is gatekeeping in the Night Market? Have you played it? I have, and I have seen absolutely no gatekeeping. The groups have been casual, friendly, and fun.
It’s funny that most of the criticism on the forum seems to come from people who have not played it.
Yes.
Assuming that someone did not play Night Market because they don't like it is error. I played it in PTS. I played it in Live. I have read the grouping calls in live. That is how I know there is gatekeeping in Night Market.
I’d be curious to hear from others who can relate to your experience. Would anyone else describe grouping in the Night Market as elitist gatekeeping?
I would also like to learn about specific examples of gatekeeping in groups in Event GF. As in what requirements are placed on those trying to join one. I'm not talking about groups for the dungeons or the Trial here. I mean the groups for doing faction/blood in the sand quests, puzzles,key or favor farming etc.
The player I chatted with stated that three groups that were active in the GF for the 'event' had prerequisites. The two that I could verify were asking for specifics. One wanted only CP100 or higher, the other wanted only tanks.
The content is designed so that everyone has a role to fulfill. This means a group will want at least one tank and healer instead of only DPS. Which is the opposite of gatekeeping and is inclusive design that ensures there's something to do for all roles. When people make the groups they will reserve a few spots for supports. And those spots are generally filled last because supports are the minority group. The group isn't gatekeeping DPS. They can only take 12 people as a hard limit and that particular group is full on everything but tanks.
Equating a group that can't take more DPS with a group that won't take them is not remotely fair.
spartaxoxo
10
Re: Shattered Paths Signet Is Problematic
So most people are still using the old meta, but will soon use the new meta. Bold take.BardokRedSnow wrote: »Because these forums are your greyhost
Most people using monomyth right now, they always move to the next new hotness.
Forums remain the more balanced meta. More players, more consistent action 24/7, outcomes determined by skill not gear.
Busted gear like Shattered Path only makes Vengeance that much more appealing.
xylena
3
Re: Nightblade Tanks
Damage Shields and tanking do not go together. Lets say you are blocking an incoming hit that is 100,000 damage raw, and you have maximum mitigation in doing so, which is around 97.5%.
You therefore take 2,500 damage.
Now lets say you throw up a 15,000 damage shield. On the same hit, the 100,000 becomes 85,000 and at 97.5% mitigation you take 2,125 damage.
A difference of 375 damage is meaningless given the self-healing and healer over-healing that goes on. It just doesn't matter.
That said, you want a taunt and damage shield - that's what the one handed weapon skill line is for.
Anyone who has ever used the Aegis Mythic in PvP knows full the well how strong damage shields can protect your health and curb enormous amounts of incoming damage, especially from siege artillery and cold fire dots. So, damage shields curb dot damage as well. I don't use that Mythic in PvE but my build supports it should I need it, among many other different things. The proof is how well my tank is excelling in the Night Market and it's easy to see how damage shields are a big part of the reason why.
Vulkunne
2
Re: Dev Team Request: A Top 5 List of Bugs and Pain Points You Would Like Addressed
SOmething done about the queue times. 30 minutes for a dungeon regardless of tank, dps or healer is just unnacceptable
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 4 Summary
Please for the love of everything, disable the Signet Path mythic on werewolf, do not let this go to live.
- Signed, a WW player who wants to be viable outside of one toxic ring and not suffer a year of nerfs because of it.
- Signed, a WW player who wants to be viable outside of one toxic ring and not suffer a year of nerfs because of it.
coop500
9
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 4 Summary
@Arunei - it goes without saying but the Salvation set is equally in a sorry state:
-horrible, non-keystone bonuses for either PvE DPS or your standard PvP build
-a measly 150 wep and spell damage ONLY while transformed (this compared to MANY other ‘specialized’ sets that receive anywhere from 400-600 wep and spell)
-a reduction that I believe only focuses on the initial transformation or at least becomes a moot point after you throw on a whole set providing nothing truly meaningful to fulfill role-based duties
-horrible, non-keystone bonuses for either PvE DPS or your standard PvP build
-a measly 150 wep and spell damage ONLY while transformed (this compared to MANY other ‘specialized’ sets that receive anywhere from 400-600 wep and spell)
-a reduction that I believe only focuses on the initial transformation or at least becomes a moot point after you throw on a whole set providing nothing truly meaningful to fulfill role-based duties
Wuuffyy
5
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 4 Summary
Necromancer – Malevolent Promise [Feedback]: In addition to the info we provided in last week’s PTS Summary about the Malevolent Promise passive changes and PvP content, we wanted to address a follow-up question we saw. Some of you asked if this change was due to how Malevolent Promise behaves when paired with the Corpseburster item set. The short answer is yes. In our internal testing, we observed that certain combinations paired with Malevolent Promise and Corpseburster were overwhelmingly powerful in a way that created an oppressive gameplay experience, especially when multiple Necromancers are coordinating. It had no counterplay and was effectively a surefire “I win” combo – fun for the caster, not fun for the target, and not healthy for our overall PvP experience. We did try a few other solutions such as a cooldown per target, or only one Necro in the group getting the buff and the other not, etc. It also wasn’t a quick decision – we exhausted a lot of solutions and time internally exploring these other possible options to try to improve the PvP experience, and making Malevolent Promise usable on only non-player targets in PvP was were we landed for now. It is possible we'll revisit this in the future, potentially when we get to the Necromancer class refresh. We hope this additional context helps. (Related post.)
Refresh necromancer this year then! Winter 2027 is too late!
Refresh necromancer this year then! Winter 2027 is too late!
Re: Addressing U50 PTS Combat & Ability Concerns
Honestly the only way to fight power creep is probably something I saw someone else mention somewhere in the General section I think it was? Which was to hardcap damage.Either that or implement something so that DPS after a certain point starts to have diminishing returns somehow. I remember back when 50k-ish DPS was good enough for most every Vet Dungeon, but that hardly seems the case these days.YOu CANNOT balance around what the above-average or top players can do.
Do people not remember U35? That whole debacle happened because ZOS attempted to raise the floor by lowering the ceiling. What happened, though? Who was it that was adversely affected by that? It was the average or below-average player hit the hardest.
The top players will ALWAYS, ALWAYS find what's the strongest. What works the best. What gives the highest numbers, what does the most damage or tanks the most damage or heals the most damage.
When was the last time lowering the ceiling actually stopped the power creep? When was the last time it actually raised DPS or tanking or healing for average players?
Power creep doesn't happen because of average players. It happens because of the top players finding new interactions with new Sets and old Skills/Passives.
No matter how much you nerf WW, ZOS, certain people will keep claiming it isn't enough, because THEY will continue to find ways of pumping out high damage and will just keep saying "Look how OP it still is!" while the rest of us who aren't absolute aces at the game will just watch as WW keeps getting gutted over and over before it even reaches Live.
You CANNOT balance around what the ceiling can do, because it never raises the floor, it only ever pushes it farther into the ground.
So the alternative is what? Raise the floor? That won’t lower the power creep either. In fact, it would make it worse.
Imagine a scenario where player X, who is average at the game, does 80k DPS on a dummy, while player Y, who is above average, does 110k DPS. Both are playing the same class. Instead of figuring out more optimized sets and perfecting their rotation, player X wants his class to be buffed. ZOS listens and rolls out several changes, allowing player X to increase his parse to 110k. Player X is happy that he can finally compete, but he doesn’t understand that player Y, who has a better setup and rotation, is now doing 140k DPS. Power creep worsens, and the average DPS requirement is now inflated.
This is literally the same thing in PvP, but more severe. Since you’re fighting players, knowledge of defensive rotations must also be accounted for. If player X always dies on his Sorc while player Y dies less, is it Sorc being bad at surviving, or is it player X? What do you think would happen to player Y if ZOS buffed Sorc to allow player X to survive better? I think we all know the result here.
And who's to say that the person doing 80k DPS hasn't perfected their rotation and doesn't already have access to the best Gear they can realistically obtain? A lot of people don't do Trials and thus don't have Trial Gear. Heck a lot of people don't do Vet Dungeons and don't have Dungeon Sets. And this is where I'd say diminishing returns would kick in, so that having more optimized Gear and Skills and all DOES kick in at a certain point, but not before average players would be able to get some sort of boost. Maybe that 80k Sorc player can get buffed to 100k instead, while the person who has their optimized build could still hit that 140k if they REALLY worked at it. There would still be separation between more skilled people and those who aren't in that upper tier, but the people below average or average DO get some sort of buff. The floor gets raised without the ceiling also going up as well.
Nerfing things because of what the top can do will never help the average player, because those people using those things that get nerfed lose power and then have to struggle to get it back, whereas the people at the top will either barely feel it, or only be affected for a short time before they find the next busted or overtuned combo. There has to be SOME sort of compromise because otherwise people will always want more more more nerfs and the people lower on the totem pole have to deal with either watching their builds get made worse, or fear it's going to happen.
And the main point here is you will NEVER nerf what the top people can do because they'll always manage to find something else. It's s never-ending cycle. People look at what they can do and think it's too strong, call for nerfs, something gets nerfed but even when it is those people could probably still wring out a high output with it. More nerfs, more builds getting made worse. Over and over. I keep bringing up U35 because this is exactly what happened. ZOS tried to lower the ceiling to raise the floor and what actually happened was the floor got suplexed even lower than it had been before, while the ceiling was largely untouched.
if you aren't doing vet trials or even vet dungeons does it really matter whether you do 150k or 100k dps ?
why balance around what rpers can do ?
