Recapitated wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Nah, if anything buff proc set, way to much set in this game are useless, make them all viable.

Cool, let's make Adept Rider instakill players whenever you roll your reticle over them; the game will make no sense but those who don't quit won't have to cope with all these useless sets -- and isn't that what matters in the end?

There's no sense in using Sheer Venom in PVE. You can, and you'll be doing pretty bad, and I guess if for some reason you were doing that and Sheer Venom gets nerfed you'll be doing worse. So what? Does every set have to be viable in PVE? I don't get it, it's like if Siroria was overperforming in PVE and anytime someone asked to nerf it I were like "Well I like to be wearing Siroria when I die in BGs so don't touch it, possibly just delete PVE"

chuynh729 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

I never went out of my way to farm for the staff, but I do have it.

That is absurdly lucky. I say this as someone who's had the BSW BBQ stick drop at least three times, once at level 48.

chuynh729 wrote: »

Typically it's only the last 1-3 pieces from a set that are a pain to farm. Even with 3 missing pieces it's still a cost of 30 or so transmute stones which is still low.

I think that's the point. No, seriously, I think the low cost is the point.

So, a major, longstanding, issue with ESO has been inventory pressure. Our inventories have been getting more, and more, cluttered over the years. Each DLC has brought with it significant changes to existing sets, and the addition of new ones. If a set was useless a couple patches ago, and you deconned everything associated with it, but now it's suddenly useful to your build, you have to go back in and refarm the parts you need.

This is a long term solution.

Instead of us collecting more items, we're looking to unlock a collection set. At that point, a major portion of this is to get us to break down stuff in our inventories that we're not using. Tear up the old sets we've been holding onto on the idea that, maybe, someday, it will be useful.

It also alleviates some of the grind from getting a new character to 50, and having to gear them up. If we already have gear for them, great, but a lot of the time, it means going out and chasing specific drops all over again.

So, let's run some numbers. With the costs as they exist on live, if you take a new character to level 50 and want to gear them up, that will cost somewhere between 300 and 1050 crystals. (Now, it will never actually hit 1050, and will probably cap out at around 910 in realistic circumstances, but that's the theoretical upper limit.) 300's a reasonable amount of grind, 1000 crystals is pretty crazy.

And, yeah, the purpose is to get us to stop carrying so much crap in our inventories and clean those out a bit. At least scrap all the sets we're not using, and may never use.

I think 25 is a pretty reasonable crystal cost for someone who's done a lot of grinding. Now, it does create a fairly complicated question over when you want to scrap items vs when you want to retrait actual drops. Retraiting costs more crystals, but reconstituting requires upgrade materials. I'm not 100% convinced that those options are entirely equivalent. (Jewelry heavily favors retraiting, while the other three favor reconstruction, in my opinion), but there is a legitimate decision to make here.

Given the free limit is 500, and the ESO+ limit is 1k, I think the current prices are calculated around the idea that you'll have most of a set, and then if some balance change hits, you'll be able to afford to pull a complete lineup of gear from storage to keep your character playable, while you work up the crystals for your alts.

Moving the floor up to 75 or 100, would push the "best case," 12 loadout to 900 crystals, well outside the reach of anyone but the most dedicated grinders with ESO+, and have the potential to create situations where players could be left without a solid gear setup if existing sets are heavily retooled.

Now, the thing about this that does worry me is, it opens the door to further reworks similar to what happened with Eternal and Immortal Warrior. I'm not wild about the idea that this will lead to even more impermanence with existing sets. If that's what's going to happen, then that 25 crystal cost will add up fast.

Right now, the system feels like it's designed to be a slightly more inconvenient option for gear storage. If we want the inventory slots for other things, we can just, straight up, junk some armor, and then spend the crystals if we want that back a couple years down the road.

If that is the main goal, I feel like the system could've been designed differently to achieve that goal.

ie: After deconstructing x amount of an item with y trait, you can reconstruct the the same item x amount of times with y trait, at the same quality (?).
The cost for reconstruction would be reduced to 5 stones flat.

The current system seems to better fulfill the purpose of replacing gear farming, more so than to allow for easy reconstruction of previously obtained gear.

heaven13 wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

This might be an unpopular opinion.

But I don't understand why the ability to create any gear, with any trait, should cost only 25 transmute stones (and no trait stones). Right now, simply just altering the trait of an already existing item costs 50 transmute stones. With such a low cost, wouldn't this new system make the current transmutation system pointless?

I understand 25 transmute stones is the cost only if you've unlocked every piece of gear from the set. But in my opinion, that "downside" is largely irrelevant because it would only be a matter of time before people get to that point. Part of the fun of this game (and every MMO) is the grind - few things make me as excited as when the last piece of gear I needed finally drops. The reconstruction system will be fun for the first few weeks when people are still collecting gear. But afterwards, a large part of the motivation for doing dungeons, trials, or other content will be almost entirely gone because they can simply "craft" the gear. It'll be a grind for transmute stones. Why spend 20-30 minutes running a dungeon or trial when I can get tier 1 in Cyrodiil campaign and be guaranteed any 2 pieces of a gear set with BiS trait in the same amount of time?

Don't get me wrong - I think the recollection & reconstruction systems are amazing. I can finally clear my bank of the 300 pieces of gear that I saved without worrying about "what if" scenarios.
Sometimes the grind for a single piece of gear is so bad that I don't even feel happy when I finally get it - but rather, "finally, what a **** waste of time". I would love to have the option to avoid those kind of grinds. But I also want the cost to be significant enough that I actually have to think about whether or not it's worth the transmute stones. With a cost of only 25 stones, which is literally half the cost of transmuting an off-trait weapon, the choice is obvious. Getting the weapon you're looking for already requires luck. But you'll also need to roll the right trait to make running the content worth it over simply reconstructing it, because transmuting costs double the amount of stones.

I think a minimum cost of somewhere around 100 transmute stones to reconstruct an item would be much better.

Least fun part of the game for most people I think is the grind, only few people injoy it. I believe some of the reasons for the new system is to help people grind less and be open to and try new builds becauae they have qccess to most sets. If the cost of the sets to be high, most people would grind instead of reconstracting, and this would only reinforce existing meta, because people don't want to waste their time trying new things. Every once in a while someone come up with build idea but never go through with it, mostly because they need to grind and transmute, so they end up theory crafting instead of testing.

Another thing is, for some reason I'm finding hard to collect transmute stones as I used to be a few patches ago, not sure if they deceased the trabsmute stone drop rate or what. I had many gold transmute bags but I don't remmember when was last time I got more than 4 stones per gold bag. I believe gold ahould drop atleast 15 and purple 5 not 1or 2, because that is what I got most of the times. Not every is hard try or grinder that can get 200 stones in a week. I need about a week to get 40-50 with constant play and I'm sure many people are the same. The need for grind will never fade away. If this 25 still remain as it is, I myself would grind most of the sets pieces I need and reconstruc the hard to get one or remaining part to complete what I have.

I think the reconstruction system should help ease the grind .I don't think it should have the potential to almost entirely replace it. A cost of 25 stones per piece will potentially do just that, save for certain jewelry sets that drop in purple.

I do realize a cost of 100 is a bit high. When I came up with that cost I was mostly considering the amount of crystals you can get from Cyrodiil, which is 50 per character by simply getting 25k AP in each campaign (which takes 30mins or so). Perhaps a minimum cost of 60 and maximum cost of 80 stones would be more fair.

starkerealm wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

Exactly. I'm glad you see it as well. People will do dungeons & trials more for the first few months. But afterwards, it really will become a grind for transmute stones.

This is, mostly, a semantic difference. Except for one critical detail. Crystal grinding is a (mostly) consistent grind. You may not get exactly the quantity you wanted, but you'll get something and make progress. Gear grind can be an exercise in frustration.

chuynh729 wrote: »

And yes, most likely people aren't going to transmute literally a whole set of gear. They'll probably have a few pieces already lying around somewhere. I was just saying that they could if they wanted to, in order to emphasize how low of a cost 25 crystals is.

For the most part, I agree. I suspect the primary use will be for someone to fill out missing parts of a set if they go back and regrind it.

A major portion of this is focused on alleviating inventory pressure. How many people were caught off guard when sheer venom, a set they may have accidentally farmed years ago while chasing after Scathing Mage, but junked because it was trash? This is the kind of thing this system is designed to counter. If you're like me, and saved a full 5pc Scathing Mage Sheer Venom because, "it might be useful," then great, you rolled the dice and won. However, it's very likely, you've also got another 800 inventory slots chewed up by sets that may never be useful on the idea of, "well, maybe this will be important some day," or, "I might need this for a tank," or even just, "this specific piece of this set is a pain to get, so I'll hold onto it, even if it doesn't work at all right now." (Ex: the Ebon 1h and shields I kept, in spite of the set being bugged for years if you had it on a weapon bar.)

This isn't designed to remove grind, or even ease grind. It's designed to standardize regrinding.

Remember, you can't reconstitute a piece you've never held. This is only a safeguard against, "I had an incredibly niche item, but I deconned it for space, but because of this last patch, it's important again," and, "I rolled an alt, and don't want to grind for another copy of this improbably rare drop." (Ex: BSW BBQ sticks, Maelstrom weapons, ect.)

The entire point of the system is a kind of inventory, "deep storage," and that goal starts to fail if it becomes cost prohibitive to pull things out of collections.

EDIT: Meant to type Sheer instead of Scathing there, though I suppose it works either way if Scathing ever becomes useful again.

If that is the goal of the reconstruction system, then the system could've been designed differently to better accomplish that goal without having the potential to almost entirely replace gear farming.

ie: After deconstructing x amount of an item with y trait, you can reconstruct the the same item x amount of times with y trait, at the same quality (?).
The cost for reconstruction would be reduced to 5 stones flat.

I largely see reconstruction as a means to reduce server lag. How many people, myself included, have been asking for years for inventory space upgrades citing the number of new sets we get each year and new mats and new furnishing and new other items? Bank space has been static. We got housing storage but it has never been added upon. Finally got some inventory pets but it's barely alleviated the storage issues that came with 5 years of new content . With reconstruction, people will be able to free up space that they've been using to hang on to all this gear that they've been too afraid to decon which may end up addressing one factor of lag. It might not help but, either way, the implementation comes out in the player's favor.

People aren't going to want to decon 10 BSW infernos just so, once they decon 10, they can reconstruct 1 later (or 10 but chances are they won't need all those). They'll just hang on to the one they looted leaving us in the same predicament as now. And if you're gearing alts, you're not going to decon pieces those alts could be using just so you could reconstruct them later. It's not intuitive and it's not player friendly.