The Elder Scrolls Online

Three-Sided Deathmatch

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  • Moonspawn
    Moonspawn
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    NxJoeyD wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    In a magical world where the players who dislike the objective modes have their own Deathmatch queue, would a separate MMR for each of the five game modes help to make them all competitive?


    The short answer is no, not right now.

    With the extreme degree of imbalance we have given that we're in the middle of a major class refresh project there is ZERO way that any MMR or any "matchmaking-wannabe-like-system" could ever deliver "competitively" made teams.

    Unfortunately, there's no way to do that, unless, maybe, one were to consider grouping Subclassed players, Werewolf players, & DK players all as one "pool" and then separately grouping all other players into a different pool to matchmake.

    There is zero chance of that because that would be a huge demand on the server and a long time to design and implement; and also because the population, at least on PC, is too small to ever have that work. I play on both PC NA and XB NA and I could wait forever to get a BG queue to proc on PC but, on average, I only wait a couple of minutes on XB for a BG queue; and that's consistently. I'm never sitting and waiting for a BG on XB.

    Now, this tells us that more players on console play ESO than do on PC. Why that is a trend, that's anyone's guess and I think we all have our theories.

    But as for any sort of "balancing" MMR, no, put that on the back burner until at least after the class refreshes are done because this is a waste of time otherwise. It's simply not possible right now with how disheveled everything is.

    I'd say it's impossible to make the objective modes competitive without having a separate MMR for each one. @NxJoeyD , @Solantris do you see any sense in using the same MMR for both Deathmach and Domination?
    Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?

    Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes
  • Solantris
    Solantris
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    Objective modes are more similar to each other than they are to deathmatch, by a large margin. DM is an outlier
  • Haki_7
    Haki_7
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    @ZOS_Kevin

    Perhaps ZOS can answer if there is a separate MMR for each of the game modes?

    Relic, 0% chance of losing. Orange-6 ditched their team to go around in stealth looking for newcomers. First and third critical flaws of 2-sided:
    t4yh6uz5zjti.png

    Crazy King, 0% chance of losing. Spawncamping while I go around trying to end the nightmare. Third flaw:
    52dx9hvbdk00.png

    Domination, 0% chance of losing:
    86kwol1zxyi6.png

    Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 228: Waiting 20 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
    https://youtu.be/tZ8SGs09sxo

    Chaosball 1 and 2, 0% chance of losing:
    ni77xzzzoznz.png
    9gslz4ays5bt.png

    Deathmatch 1, 0% chance of losing:
    97skgds1n77n.png

    Deathmatch 2, 0% chance of winning. Promptly giving up after a single death. Never would have happened in 3-sided. Fourth flaw:
    y7lc0aa6mpyb.png
    Edited by Haki_7 on 20 July 2026 09:16
    Two-sided Battlegrounds: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8450160/#Comment_8450160
  • Moonspawn
    Moonspawn
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    Haki_7 wrote: »
    @ZOS_Kevin

    Perhaps ZOS can answer if there is a separate MMR for each of the game modes?

    I'm adding this question to the others.
    Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?

    Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes
  • Haki_7
    Haki_7
    ✭✭✭
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »

    Perhaps ZOS can answer if there is a separate MMR for each of the game modes?

    I'm adding this question to the others.

    Hopefully, they’ll all be answered someday. In the meantime:
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Please examine the following 8v8 Deathmatch:
    uelgtnr57p3e.png

    There's something odd about this scoreboard. The numbers don't add up.

    Deathmatch 1, no chance of winning. Throwing in the towel after one death. Fourth critical flaw of 2-sided:
    pz576im4w1ab.png

    Deathmatch 2, no chance of losing:
    j970abgpspgt.png

    Crazy King, no chance of losing:
    9nqx839drbnz.png

    Domination, no chance of losing. Goold old 8v8 domination, featuring all of the problems of 3-sided domination, and then some. Two players chose to leave even though the deserter penalty lasts longer than the match itself:
    9d8anx8xl7d4.png

    Chaosball 1 & 2, no chance of losing:
    vijg0cciwop6.png
    omgkibi9a0qu.png

    Relic, no chance of losing. I was unable to put a stop to the lopsided nightmare, so it lasted the full duration. Thanks to the first critical flaw of 2-sided, the target order never leaves the newcomers (orange-6 and 7) Not even on the winning team:
    6bb0zqc1fbrj.png

    Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 229: Waiting 27 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
    https://youtu.be/X82Z7XRwuzQ
    Two-sided Battlegrounds: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8450160/#Comment_8450160
  • Moonspawn
    Moonspawn
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    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »

    Perhaps ZOS can answer if there is a separate MMR for each of the game modes?

    I'm adding this question to the others.

    Hopefully, they’ll all be answered someday. In the meantime:
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Please examine the following 8v8 Deathmatch:
    uelgtnr57p3e.png

    There's something odd about this scoreboard. The numbers don't add up.

    One of the players from Orange quit after dying eleven times, never to be seen again.
    Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?

    Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes
  • Haki_7
    Haki_7
    ✭✭✭
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »

    Perhaps ZOS can answer if there is a separate MMR for each of the game modes?

    I'm adding this question to the others.

    Hopefully, they’ll all be answered someday. In the meantime:
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Please examine the following 8v8 Deathmatch:
    uelgtnr57p3e.png

    There's something odd about this scoreboard. The numbers don't add up.

    One of the players from Orange quit after dying eleven times, never to be seen again.

    I see. Business as usual :(

    @Solantris what do you think of this match?


    Relic, zero chance of losing. Promptly giving up after losing one relic: Fourth critical flaw of 2-sided:
    2ytfb53f3isw.png

    Deathmatch 1, zero chance of winning. Perfect score:
    jsqq9tvlrvw8.png

    Deathmatch 2, zero chance of losing:
    cyfaca63daw9.png

    Chaosball 1 & 2, zero chance of losing. Staring contest with ball carriers:
    sdy90snzknum.png
    ngfvbn4isshe.png

    Domination, zero chance of losing:
    2ooszwmjkoj9.png

    Crazy King, zero chance of losing:
    uvnkvja1xht8.png

    Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 230: Waiting 17 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
    https://youtu.be/CkHOCx2p7d4
    Two-sided Battlegrounds: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8450160/#Comment_8450160
  • Moonspawn
    Moonspawn
    ✭✭✭✭
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »

    Perhaps ZOS can answer if there is a separate MMR for each of the game modes?

    I'm adding this question to the others.

    Hopefully, they’ll all be answered someday. In the meantime:
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Please examine the following 8v8 Deathmatch:
    uelgtnr57p3e.png

    There's something odd about this scoreboard. The numbers don't add up.

    One of the players from Orange quit after dying eleven times, never to be seen again.

    I see. Business as usual :(

    @Solantris what do you think of this match?

    And as always, Green-2 was once again awed by how the critical flaws of 2-sided ruin even the matches that could have been fun for everyone.

    By every metric, it was highly competitive.

    But the competition boiled down to who avoided pvpers better and farmed newcomers faster.
    Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?

    Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes
  • Haki_7
    Haki_7
    ✭✭✭
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    NxJoeyD wrote: »
    And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water! The maps are awful for this. The existing 3 team maps are fine for Relic or Domination / Crazy King but not CB! .. having someone grab the ball on Quarry and then duck into a map crevice, using it to avoid damage because the attacks won’t register through the gap in the wood is nobody’s idea of good combat. ..
    @NxJoeyD I'm sure ZOS could use help locating these map crevices and all the other places players use to cheese chaosballs.

    That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

    Sooner or later, someone will have to do it.

    Is it just me, or are people not cheesing chaosballs like they used to?

    Not cheesing like they used to?

    They weren't cheesing at all, so I was only able to capture a few spots. I've been going over my screenshots trying to find them. Here's one:
    xcbkdxhf5nnp.png

    Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 231: Waiting 24 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
    https://youtu.be/0ynF8WsbakM

    Crazy King, predetermined victory. Running around in a desperate attempt to end the nightmare, while my teammates spawncamp. Third critical flaw of 2-sided:
    au8vgipaza2b.png

    Deathmatch 1 and 2, predetermined victories:
    i51yksppj1yi.png
    m34h6g7mtg3b.png

    Domination, predetermined defeat. All our points came from backcapping empty flags:
    v2xag29bigza.png

    Chaosball 1 and 2, predetermined victories:
    2yce96ucw6gr.png
    3prfzabz09hy.png

    Relic, predetermined victory. The target order never leaves the newcomers. Even the ones on the winning team. First flaw:
    5s8447sfneuc.png
    Edited by Haki_7 on 24 July 2026 10:23
    Two-sided Battlegrounds: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8450160/#Comment_8450160
  • Haki_7
    Haki_7
    ✭✭✭
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Front page has been updated with the questions only Zenimax can answer.

    There was also the question about the rarity of lopsided matches in 3-sided, when compared to 2-sided.

    Domination, impossible to lose. Most of their points came from backcapping empty flags:
    87ladid9z2pi.png

    Crazy King, impossible to lose. Another match destroyed by the third flaw:
    rza4omuf01c8.png

    Chaosball 1 and 2, impossible to lose:
    uhc3lf4nabw1.png
    schmlbnx91v8.png

    Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 232: Waiting 17 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
    https://youtu.be/wkCcx8tUDEs

    Relic, impossible to lose. Overwhelmed by the influence of the fourth flaw, half of the opponent team left:
    yd5vc37mt2jx.png

    Deathmatch 1, impossible to lose:
    2ayomorwtmbz.png

    Deathmatch 2, impossible to win:
    hnkbimyd4uqx.png
    Two-sided Battlegrounds: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8450160/#Comment_8450160
  • Moonspawn
    Moonspawn
    ✭✭✭✭
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    NxJoeyD wrote: »
    And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water! The maps are awful for this. The existing 3 team maps are fine for Relic or Domination / Crazy King but not CB! .. having someone grab the ball on Quarry and then duck into a map crevice, using it to avoid damage because the attacks won’t register through the gap in the wood is nobody’s idea of good combat. ..
    @NxJoeyD I'm sure ZOS could use help locating these map crevices and all the other places players use to cheese chaosballs.

    That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

    Sooner or later, someone will have to do it.

    Is it just me, or are people not cheesing chaosballs like they used to?

    Not cheesing like they used to?

    They weren't cheesing at all, so I was only able to capture a few spots. I've been going over my screenshots trying to find them. Here's one:
    xcbkdxhf5nnp.png

    What if you had started sooner?
    Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?

    Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes
  • Haki_7
    Haki_7
    ✭✭✭
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    NxJoeyD wrote: »
    And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water! The maps are awful for this. The existing 3 team maps are fine for Relic or Domination / Crazy King but not CB! .. having someone grab the ball on Quarry and then duck into a map crevice, using it to avoid damage because the attacks won’t register through the gap in the wood is nobody’s idea of good combat. ..
    @NxJoeyD I'm sure ZOS could use help locating these map crevices and all the other places players use to cheese chaosballs.

    That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

    Sooner or later, someone will have to do it.

    Is it just me, or are people not cheesing chaosballs like they used to?

    Not cheesing like they used to?

    They weren't cheesing at all, so I was only able to capture a few spots. I've been going over my screenshots trying to find them. Here's one:
    xcbkdxhf5nnp.png

    What if you had started sooner?

    Sooner? By the second day I was already on the lookout for any kind of cheesing.

    Is this another spot?
    6y4jmwy5cmtt.png


    Deathmatch 1, no way of winning:
    na1bbqdix0zw.png

    Deathmatch 2, no way of losing. The first critical flaw of 2-sided always renders 8v8 DM into such nonsense:
    7m5n2436idrk.png

    Crazy King, no way of losing:
    t77v9h0k33ut.png

    Domination, no way of losing:
    j7dspsd96e5j.png

    Chaosball 1 & 2, no way of losing. Soul gazing session with ball carriers:
    vxtqvvyvnyeq.png
    nshi3jdahlrg.png

    Relic, no way of losing. Tapping out after losing one relic. Fourth flaw:
    s0lso0wsnlaf.png

    Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 233: Waiting 18 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
    https://youtu.be/ZxEJ7oelKTw
    Edited by Haki_7 on 29 July 2026 12:39
    Two-sided Battlegrounds: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8450160/#Comment_8450160
  • Moonspawn
    Moonspawn
    ✭✭✭✭
    Haki_7 wrote: »

    Is this another spot?
    6y4jmwy5cmtt.png

    I think so. Some spots are definetely more problematic than others.
    Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?

    Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes
  • Haki_7
    Haki_7
    ✭✭✭
    Found another spot:
    t8v6054142q8.png

    Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 234: Waiting 20 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)
    https://youtu.be/uSkASjX8nUI

    Crazy King, no risk of losing:
    4kshvm8pa1ai.png

    Chaosball 1 and 2, no risk of losing:
    wd50klox1epx.png
    7wbhnxv6smaq.png

    Domination, no risk of losing:
    cdd3invih7xk.png

    Deathmatch 1, impossible to win. Promptly giving up after one death. Fourth critical flaw of 2-sided:
    3bj5c4qg1oy9.png

    Deathmatch 2, no risk of losing. Probably would have been 500-0 if it wasn't for the damage sigil at the beginning:
    bt36ez23we60.png

    Relic, no risk of losing. Almost half of them simply left:
    xmn3crwshn3x.png
    Edited by Haki_7 on 29 July 2026 11:46
    Two-sided Battlegrounds: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8450160/#Comment_8450160
  • Moonspawn
    Moonspawn
    ✭✭✭✭
    Haki_7 wrote: »
    Moonspawn wrote: »
    Front page has been updated with the questions only Zenimax can answer.

    There was also the question about the rarity of lopsided matches in 3-sided, when compared to 2-sided.

    But is that a question directed at ZOS, or at everyone?
    Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?

    Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes
  • Maitsukas
    Maitsukas
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Going back to what the main conversation topic of what this thread should have been (which has deviated from since the start), 4v4v4 will be permanently back with Update 51:
    gxnyb8f8ru4x.png
    Edited by Maitsukas on 30 July 2026 14:43
    PC-EU @maitsukas

    Posting the Infinite Archive and Imperial City Weekly Vendor updates.

    Also trying out new Main Quests, Companions, ToT decks, Events and Styles on PTS.
  • Bguk
    Bguk
    ✭✭✭✭
    Good news everyone! The posts can stop and new ones complaining about 3 sided being unfair/unbalanced/no chance of winning/etc. can start on September 28!

    And three-sided Battlegrounds will return permanently on September 28, with Update 51 

    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/70213
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    It doesnt matter if there are two teams or three, ESO PvP is bad.

    - Classes are not balanced
    - There is little to no in-game build transparency
    - Cheesy play is not just encouraged, but needed
    - Matchmaking is not balanced

    EDO PvP wad built in a way that makes spankings the likely outcome.
    Rest in Peace:
    The Dragonknight
    2014-2025

    This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.
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