Delete Corrosive Delete Corrsive Delete Corrosive

Avran_Sylt · May 12

It's a PvP only ult that lets you ignore all set/rune/weapon/mundus/CP investment into Penetration while also letting you ignore Max Health and Defensive augments on your own character.

What is the bloody tradeoff. Yet another ult penned by the mald you can't kill me while I can kill you dev decision.

It's only a PvP skill, there is no PvE application.

Is NB going to get a % Oblivion damage ult on rework? Can Knight Slayer bypass the % Cap?

Highly bloody unlikely!

DK gets to do Flat Damage on you while you can only deal a % damage to them! (halved because battle spirit just to be fair UwU)

Vaqual · May 12

The title caught my interest. I had to come and see what this is about.

Kalthea · May 12

To quote myself from another post complaining about PvP issues:

This will not affect me. Once Vengeance launches, that is the only way I will be interacting with Cyrodiil.

Wup_sa · May 12

Roll dodge twice with 2 seconds in between or block. Corro countered. Onslaught is like 100x better anyway since you can fully cancel the anim with bash and proc goretief with it.

Oblivion_Protocol · May 12

Kalthea wrote: »

To quote myself from another post complaining about PvP issues:

This will not affect me. Once Vengeance launches, that is the only way I will be interacting with Cyrodiil.

Right, because Vengeance won’t die a slow death the same way it always does.

Corrosive is not a problem big enough to need removing. Just outrun the DK. Stun them. Roll dodge. Knock them back. Streak away. There are multiple options for dealing with it.

YandereGirlfriend · May 12

Corrosive, Onslaught, and Acuity should all be dumpstered together because they allow you to treat entire stat categories as a dump-stat while getting carried by a single proc.

Delete that Gogiga-cheese and force folk to run well-rounded builds if they want to deal effective damage.

Kalthea · May 12

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Kalthea wrote: »

To quote myself from another post complaining about PvP issues:

This will not affect me. Once Vengeance launches, that is the only way I will be interacting with Cyrodiil.

Right, because Vengeance won’t die a slow death the same way it always does.

Corrosive is not a problem big enough to need removing. Just outrun the DK. Stun them. Roll dodge. Knock them back. Streak away. There are multiple options for dealing with it.

A lot of that may have to do with Vengeance having been a temporary addition to the game so far. Once it's permanent, you may very well see an increase in the amount of players participating.

Also, not sure how that changes me only using Vengeance to play Cyrodiil? I'm still only going to use that, lol

Urzigurumash · May 12

Wup_sa wrote: »

Roll dodge twice with 2 seconds in between or block. Corro countered. Onslaught is like 100x better anyway since you can fully cancel the anim with bash and proc goretief with it.

Yeah with a keybinded bash that won't eat your stam? Not on Xbox afaik. We need keybindable bash before crossplay goes live for sure

Urzigurumash · May 12

Now for my triennial reminder that prior to 2021 the only big Direct Damage that Corrosive could buff was the old long cast time Uppercut, which exposed the caster to interrupt. Next best Direct Damage with it was Heroic Slash before it was nerfed - still almost nothing compared to today's Whip.

And this burst-obsessed forum was once in a great panic about how the Penetration was fine, it was only the Mitigation that was imbalanced. I said ditch the Pen and buff the AoE to bring it more in line with its counterpart, Sleet Storm.

LootAllTheStuff · May 12

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

Roll dodge twice with 2 seconds in between or block. Corro countered. Onslaught is like 100x better anyway since you can fully cancel the anim with bash and proc goretief with it.

Yeah with a keybinded bash that won't eat your stam? Not on Xbox afaik. We need keybindable bash before crossplay goes live for sure

??? Doesn't bash *always* cost stamina? I know there's a CP node to reduce this, but I don't think you can ever eliminate it (key binds or not).

Urzigurumash · May 13

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

Roll dodge twice with 2 seconds in between or block. Corro countered. Onslaught is like 100x better anyway since you can fully cancel the anim with bash and proc goretief with it.

Yeah with a keybinded bash that won't eat your stam? Not on Xbox afaik. We need keybindable bash before crossplay goes live for sure

??? Doesn't bash *always* cost stamina? I know there's a CP node to reduce this, but I don't think you can ever eliminate it (key binds or not).

Only someone who plays on both platforms can really comment on the difference, yes Bash costs stamina but on Xbox the action can't be separated from Block (nka Brace). There's no option to keybind Bash alone as there putatively is on PC.

Urzigurumash · May 13

Besides chewing Stam when you just wanted to Bash but now you are also Bracing and thus Blocking incoming Direct Damage, there's no Mousewheel Up, so you're limited by how fast the controller can read you depressing a button. Which is a trigger by default, the second slowest of all buttons besides Push Joystick.

Urzigurumash · May 13

Ah now I remember the main issue. On Console, everytime you bash you are likely to disable the next Stam Regen tick, which is a globally timed 2 second interval, since you also hit "Brace". So if you're bashing repeatedly, you have no Stam Regen. I think you can do it really well and avoid this maybe if it doesn't read your button depression as longer than .25s or something, but to my understanding on PC you will NEVER disable Stam Regen with a keybinded Bash? If that's how it is that's a huge difference in how effective this is. On Xbox NA I see someone running a Bash build maybe once or twice a year.

Luneca · May 13

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Kalthea wrote: »

To quote myself from another post complaining about PvP issues:

This will not affect me. Once Vengeance launches, that is the only way I will be interacting with Cyrodiil.

Right, because Vengeance won’t die a slow death the same way it always does.

Corrosive is not a problem big enough to need removing. Just outrun the DK. Stun them. Roll dodge. Knock them back. Streak away. There are multiple options for dealing with it.

This would make sense if you could actually tell it's on, but half the time you can't.

Also, this would actually make sense if DKs didn't have an AoE CC in Wings and had to at least give up a slot for an otherwise useless skill to have that kind of utility (like turn evil).

Also, this would actually make sense if DKs couldn't streak.

The result of the above? No real counter besides being able to soak up the damage.

mmtaniac · May 13

Vengeance version of BG could be good thing too.

Wuuffyy · May 13

mmtaniac wrote: »

Vengeance version of BG could be good thing too.

I thought this was the point of no-CP? Lowers the bar of entry.

Have we considered Vengeance vCR+3 yet? It’s a small enough trial I feel they could accomplish a Mach instance for testing in a fairly quick amount of time.

Even if it isn’t popular the first time, maybe we disable vCR for a time just to force people that wanted to make their own build to dip their toes in the water.

Avran_Sylt · May 13

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Ah now I remember the main issue. On Console, everytime you bash you are likely to disable the next Stam Regen tick, which is a globally timed 2 second interval, since you also hit "Brace". So if you're bashing repeatedly, you have no Stam Regen. I think you can do it really well and avoid this maybe if it doesn't read your button depression as longer than .25s or something, but to my understanding on PC you will NEVER disable Stam Regen with a keybinded Bash? If that's how it is that's a huge difference in how effective this is. On Xbox NA I see someone running a Bash build maybe once or twice a year.

huh. Yeah, Bash can be keybound to be a single button rather than the block + left-click. (Break-free)

I might actually do that given the number of flubs I encounter when actually trying to break free.

Hmm, and with Goretheif that might be a nice added proc.

Kalthea · May 13

Wuuffyy wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

Vengeance version of BG could be good thing too.

I thought this was the point of no-CP? Lowers the bar of entry.

Have we considered Vengeance vCR+3 yet? It’s a small enough trial I feel they could accomplish a Mach instance for testing in a fairly quick amount of time.

Even if it isn’t popular the first time, maybe we disable vCR for a time just to force people that wanted to make their own build to dip their toes in the water.

The problem for new players to PvP isn't CP, it's gear and lack of meta knowledge. I cant see your proc sets until you hit me with them, and even then I can barely tell what your using to make you so effective against me. By removing armor as a factor, it levels the playing field for new players and allows them to adjust to a class and not every set in the game.

Wuuffyy · May 13

Kalthea wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

Vengeance version of BG could be good thing too.

I thought this was the point of no-CP? Lowers the bar of entry.

Have we considered Vengeance vCR+3 yet? It’s a small enough trial I feel they could accomplish a Mach instance for testing in a fairly quick amount of time.

Even if it isn’t popular the first time, maybe we disable vCR for a time just to force people that wanted to make their own build to dip their toes in the water.

The problem for new players to PvP isn't CP, it's gear and lack of meta knowledge. I cant see your proc sets until you hit me with them, and even then I can barely tell what your using to make you so effective against me. By removing armor as a factor, it levels the playing field for new players and allows them to adjust to a class and not every set in the game.

Right, but realistically this is a non-ranked (at least PvP… let’s be real even with BGs) MMO (meaning most to all want to have thorough build crafting… even if the result for some is just ‘pretty visuals’ for thematics) and Vengeance afaik is not popular.

This (no-CP) is ‘as close to’ a middle ground as the general player base is willing to consider right now. A new player is as much cannon fodder in a Hunding’s Rage meta as a proc meta. It’s just that now, if they throw on procs, they have a realistic chance to hinder someone much better (even via ‘third-party’) vs tickle them prior; hence ‘skilled players’ complain.

Unless we believe new players want to go PvP in a ‘dead mode’, I personally couldn’t see why they’d try and transfer Vengeance status to BGs when it already feasibly attracts players of all types… if anything, MMR should be better sorted (even if longer queues) and something mechanically changed with BGs so the ‘losing team’ has a viable way of a ‘comeback’ on a consistent manner.

moo_2021 · May 13

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

DK gets to do Flat Damage on you while you can only deal a % damage to them! (halved because battle spirit just to be fair UwU)

16% per hit is a lot. Even previous 8% couldn't save you from DoTs and certain skills like Bound Armaments.

Most corrosive users are melee range. Stun, immobilize or streak away. They can't touch you before 10 seconds runs out.

All the skill needs is some visual indicator, like make the player flashing green light. There is a DKcorrosiveAlert addon but looks unfinished.

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

??? Doesn't bash *always* cost stamina? I know there's a CP node to reduce this, but I don't think you can ever eliminate it (key binds or not).

key bind "interrupt" eliminates the regen pause completely. no blocking needed and you can bash non-stop while moving. And "interrupt" only costs stamina when it hits.

Kalthea · May 14

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Kalthea wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

Vengeance version of BG could be good thing too.

I thought this was the point of no-CP? Lowers the bar of entry.

Have we considered Vengeance vCR+3 yet? It’s a small enough trial I feel they could accomplish a Mach instance for testing in a fairly quick amount of time.

Even if it isn’t popular the first time, maybe we disable vCR for a time just to force people that wanted to make their own build to dip their toes in the water.

The problem for new players to PvP isn't CP, it's gear and lack of meta knowledge. I cant see your proc sets until you hit me with them, and even then I can barely tell what your using to make you so effective against me. By removing armor as a factor, it levels the playing field for new players and allows them to adjust to a class and not every set in the game.

Right, but realistically this is a non-ranked (at least PvP… let’s be real even with BGs) MMO (meaning most to all want to have thorough build crafting… even if the result for some is just ‘pretty visuals’ for thematics) and Vengeance afaik is not popular.

This (no-CP) is ‘as close to’ a middle ground as the general player base is willing to consider right now. A new player is as much cannon fodder in a Hunding’s Rage meta as a proc meta. It’s just that now, if they throw on procs, they have a realistic chance to hinder someone much better (even via ‘third-party’) vs tickle them prior; hence ‘skilled players’ complain.

Unless we believe new players want to go PvP in a ‘dead mode’, I personally couldn’t see why they’d try and transfer Vengeance status to BGs when it already feasibly attracts players of all types… if anything, MMR should be better sorted (even if longer queues) and something mechanically changed with BGs so the ‘losing team’ has a viable way of a ‘comeback’ on a consistent manner.

I've tried to get into PvP in ESO, but what it is asking of me as someone who doesn't have the time to dedicate to it is too much. I cant keep up with the meta at all times, I cant learn all of the different ways of playing and building each class in PvP, so for me, Vengeance would make me play PvP modes far more. I'm a rarity on these forums, let me assure you. A PvE player that dabbles into PvP AND leaves feedback on the forums. Most of your average playerbase are going to try something once and leave if they don't like it without saying a word. I say we wait and see what happens with Vengeance once it is fully launched. I'm hopeful, but i can definitely understand why someone may not be.

mmtaniac · May 14

At first this could be mode for players that have less than 50 level. After getting 50 on at least one character you unlock normal mode. They are unlocked always for players that have more than one characters on account with 50 level. This is way for new players at learn basics of pvp with some restrictions. If person want to learn more and be more he go later on normal bg or Grey Host.

Oblivion_Protocol · May 14

Luneca wrote: »

This would make sense if you could actually tell it's on, but half the time you can't.

That’s not an issue with the skill. That’s an issue with visual noise, which many people have already acknowledged is a problem with DKs and has been since it first came out on the PTS.

Luneca wrote: »

Also, this would actually make sense if DKs didn't have an AoE CC in Wings and had to at least give up a slot for an otherwise useless skill to have that kind of utility (like turn evil).

I’ll concede that Break Free is utterly janky in this game, making CC far more effective than it realistically should be. That said, if you can tell that DK has Corrosive up, you should immediately be gaining distance on them to outrun them as best you can.

Luneca wrote: »

Also, this would actually make sense if DKs couldn't streak.

The result of the above? No real counter besides being able to soak up the damage.

That’s a problem with Subclassing, not Corrosive. As a system, Subclassing allows people to legitimate bypass necessary weaknesses in some classes by cherry picking skills and passives that makes them nearly perfect in every aspect. Corrosive isn’t a problem if the DK can’t catch you. But the DK can catch you because of an outside ability the class wasn’t designed to have in the first place.

Avran_Sylt · May 14

moo_2021 wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

DK gets to do Flat Damage on you while you can only deal a % damage to them! (halved because battle spirit just to be fair UwU)

16% per hit is a lot. Even previous 8% couldn't save you from DoTs and certain skills like Bound Armaments.

Most corrosive users are melee range. Stun, immobilize or streak away. They can't touch you before 10 seconds runs out.

All the skill needs is some visual indicator, like make the player flashing green light. There is a .

Mmm. Playing a pureclass NB. the only "escape" mobility NB has takes a total of 2 GCD to enact (Shadow image), and can only retrace movement. I do have the fear, though if the DK has popped an immovability pot the CC fizzles.

That being said it's largely the lack of visual clarity that annoys me.

Wuuffyy · May 14

Has corrosive been deleted yet? Did the title prophesy the future?

*just want updated visuals on corrosive myself for PvP (honestly, just an additional marker making it more obvious for the brief threat level it exudes) would be more than enough for this non-DK player

Luneca · May 15

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Has corrosive been deleted yet? Did the title prophesy the future?

*just want updated visuals on corrosive myself for PvP (honestly, just an additional marker making it more obvious for the brief threat level it exudes) would be more than enough for this non-DK player

No, even though the skill has been complained about long before subclassing, people keep defending it. Even for an ultimate it shouldn't give attack and defense, with so little investment.

It's simply not on the same level as other ultimates in the game, and that is a balance problem despite defenders of it.

ZOS nerfed a skill line Templar's sweep ultimate and removed the major protection it used to give (which is now 10% down from its previous 30%) in the past. Yet corrosive has, always was, and apparently always will be a better ultimate in every single way and it actually got buffed.

And the excuse from players like one above (not @Wuuffyy ) is that it's subclassing's fault that the skill is an issue? Seriously? It's always been an issue. How about the patch were people used Cryptcannon to leap with Corrosive before it was adjusted?

Didn't see subclassing then, and I'm pretty sure people brought up the fact that this skill giving attack and essentially full defense with no investment was a problem back then.

Then the argument that it's subclassing makes no sense, when ZOS "reworked" DK and apparently thought it was a good idea to buff a skill that was already OP in the first place, on a class that got reworked and had nearly every skill line gain more and more damage than before.

The ultimate should NOT be giving attack and defense. One morph should give defense, the other attack. Make build decisions matter, because if they don't like they currently do not, then there is no way anyone can argue it's balanced.

The "one for you, one for group" doesn't matter in reality because the range on the other morph is way too small and it also affects far too little allies for it to ever be chosen by anyone seriously playing outside of PvE, which even then, why would the DPS and healer be so close to the tank in 99% of encounters in PvE?

It's an illusion of choice. And ultimates like that are why combat is said to be bad in the game and why the game's balance gets criticized. And the criticisim is much more harsh on spaces outside of this this one.

Edit: clarified

Necrotech_Master · May 15

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Ah now I remember the main issue. On Console, everytime you bash you are likely to disable the next Stam Regen tick, which is a globally timed 2 second interval, since you also hit "Brace". So if you're bashing repeatedly, you have no Stam Regen. I think you can do it really well and avoid this maybe if it doesn't read your button depression as longer than .25s or something, but to my understanding on PC you will NEVER disable Stam Regen with a keybinded Bash? If that's how it is that's a huge difference in how effective this is. On Xbox NA I see someone running a Bash build maybe once or twice a year.

huh. Yeah, Bash can be keybound to be a single button rather than the block + left-click. (Break-free)

I might actually do that given the number of flubs I encounter when actually trying to break free.

Hmm, and with Goretheif that might be a nice added proc.

that is something ive done almost since i started playing the game 12 years ago lol

i rebound weapon swap from ~ to a button on my mouse, and ccbreak/bash to another button on my mouse, and dodge roll to yet another mouse button lol

personally i hate multiple actions on a single key (double tap movement key to dodge, brace + left click to block for example) because its very often ive had them trigger unintentionally lol

moo_2021 · May 15

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Mmm. Playing a pureclass NB. the only "escape" mobility NB has takes a total of 2 GCD to enact (Shadow image), and can only retrace movement. I do have the fear, though if the DK has popped an immovability pot the CC fizzles.

That being said it's largely the lack of visual clarity that annoys me.

what about vampire mist form? i dare not to play vampire after dk change though, 20% fire damage!

I speak of the counters from my own experiences - 10s is far too short if I get CC'ed, unlike 20s transforms. a version with longer period and weaker effects would be much better for me to use.