I don't get it, just slot inner fire.

swap 1 dot for a taunt because you're good enough to not die to the boss and it keeps the pressure off the people who aren't and find it stressful. then you're not a fake tank, you're a tank.

literally all that is required for a tank is a taunt and don't die. slot the taunt.

You really don't need a actual healer for normal dungeons. Just slot 1 burst heal to keep pugs alive, so they dont constantly die.

A tank is not needed for normal dungeons either, the DD just needs to slot inner fire. A actual Tank is needed for Vet only. I personally wont take my tank into a normal dungeon just to watch people light attack a boss for 20 minutes.

svendf wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

I am finding one really sad thing during reading this thread:
"You don't need real tank in normal dungeon." and "Players want to do it as fast as possible and prefer DD instead tank therefore".

Why am I finding it sad? Because it shows, how little experience have some players with good tanking.
Do you want your reward for random daily as fast as possible, then you want good tank in your group.

Your DPS with good tank will be 4 times higher, so 4th DD is far from best solution. Tank master not only buffs your damage, make armor of your enemies in potato. They will also stack them in one pile so your AoE will hit all of them.

What do you think is difference in damage of blastbone skeleton, without buff, hitting one enemy without debuff and damage of buffed blastboune skeleton hitting all enemies in room with breach debuff?

No, T+(2DD+H)/(3DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3DD+H)/4DD

Have years of experience running 4-man groups and all of my tanks contributed generously to damage as much as possible.

Nothing new to see here as there is no substitute for Good DPS. Devs don't like to hear this and some others won't as well but DPS is next to godliness. Besides, I've seen my share of tanks who really provide little or no real value to the group. Case in point, one time I was in Banished Cells and this silly fellow... stands on like a small pillar and he's just sitting there swinging it at the boss, not aggroing the Deadroths, not contributing to damage (or heals even), he's not doing anything just aggroing the nearest Daedroth and maybe the boss when he spawns close. There was no tactical oversight as to how to tackle the adds, there was no real work being done by the tank, to stay alive even, it was all dumped onto the DPS and Healer who could barely stay alive themselves yet alone carry someone not contributing. And this clown was blaming us for the machine breaking down when if he had tried, he should have been doing more, much more.

And I've seen this behavior so many times. If it means less Tanks, which there will still be some around, but sometimes less is more. As for the rest well all I can is we're all probably better off without them anyways.

Could it be that, this tank, where in the process of learning his role ? Anyone asked him ? I often see in this forum, that tanks shouldn´t waste any time in normal dungeons, learning. I see those things happen in another mmo, which have become my main mmo now. It´s so easy to see if they are in a learning process and it´s absolutly ok if he forgot to turn on his tank stance and I pay the price for it on my DD.

In ESO you can´t be really sure if it´s a "tank" or not. I can go into a trial,dungeon or raid and be 100% sure - the three tanks in the raid is tanks, the healers are healers. If it goes wrong it´s a learning process or just bad luck, It´s all nice and fine, we know you are in here to learn.

In ESO it´s the other way around. The tank could very well be a tank listening too those, who say "do vet". You could have been in a group with a PvP, a fake one. One, who is learning and new to the job. One, who is just sick and tired, being out runned by speedy DD´s and a fake healer and now he payed you a visit.

Who is running the game, here ? Who ?

Thank You

Hey svendf, thanks again for your reply.

A detail that I left in the original story, didn't expound on it but something I had said was how he was blaming us for the condition of the group as a whole.

I understand what you're saying and many times I have tried to be reasonable with folks, will continue to do so. As Gandi had said, basically we need to be the change ourselves before we expect the world around us to change. And that was kind of my point and it was, a reason that I invested so much time into 4 man tanking, as well as research and build development at personal expense so that I could provide the best tanking experience possible. Not just for others mind you, I had some things I wanted as well and it made good sense to just get things down to a science and take up a leading role in this enterprise. Which I did and did it well.

Anyways, back to my point, there is a difference between being a student and learning, which involves things like taking notes and asking questions, vs blaming which is behavior not appropriate for a student to engage in and is more becoming someone with knowledge and experience being critical of someone else. Again, a student is there to listen and learn and ask questions and collaborate with other students.

And that is my point when he started casting blame and judgement he put himself to a higher standard than the rest of us. Thus, my standards are higher than his, with a wealth of knowledge, being in the tank role coming from years of experience, including carries as well as fulfilling dps and healer roles as well.

My assessment of this person's behavior, including a demonstrated lack of leadership skills is justified as well as my original assertion that the value of a real tank does not come from simply drawing agro alone and essentially being a burden on your group, which distracts from the overall mission.

@tmbrinks,

[snip] You should re-evaluate, how much that tanks help you, instead downplaying it. It is simple comparison, how much your DPS increase, if you are hitting 10 enemies (thanks to tank) instead 2 enemies only at once.

The ratio is different through dungeons, 1:3, 3:10, 1:5. Mobs in dungeons are implemented in way, so they can't easyly burn through them. They standt by walls, hide behind rocks, arrive after start of combat. DDs alone need to hunt them one by one. DDs with tank can kill them all together.

[edited for baiting]

My original point stands. People are expecting top-tier performances out of the tank and healer every time, and have zero expectations on DPS.

Haven't seen anyone ask for top tier from the tank or healer. A taunt or a group heal isn't asking for top tier.

But this is an actual example of a fake tank I ran into. We pulled Depths because they were level 45. 18K health and a bow. This was a double combo of fake tank and poor DPS.

To your point, I have seen some very odd DPS too. The heavy-only attacker . Although I've seen a couple of tanks (took the slot and had high health) not taunt and just heavy attack too so, So again a double dip of a tank not tanking and not DPSing either.

And my experience is normal, not Vet. On Vet I can understand that bad DPS is more of a problem. But with this event, I've seen such bad play from all slots that I swapped to just doing some pugs on a dd-tank (queue as a dd, but very tanky). I just walk through killing everything that attacks me then rez everybody when I get them. Soloing on my main DPS toon is faster than a lot of these speed pugs if I was just farming boxes.

Thus my opinion it is not the "fake" anything that is the problem. It's treating the PUG queue as if it is there for you and not the other three players also.

WinterHeart626 wrote: »

Ok, if this is in regards to Vet content, sure I get you.
If in regards to normal dungeons, then no. You don’t need a healer. You also don’t need a tank.
I’ve been doing daily randoms, as any combination of ALL THREE rolls.
And you know what. The only way to fill that last slot is with a fake healer. It causes no problems, I’ve been rolling the DLC dungeons for stickerbooking, I may have encountered some of you if you play XBOX NA, I can tell you now, I’ve never had so much fun.
You know what that word means? Right??
Yeah we want to grab our mats and special boxes.
There’s even players who want their quests ( I slow down for these ones, no one likes losing skill point + exp chance), it’s even enjoyable showing newer players mechs.

Yes, we all get it, you don’t like it, but it’s how it is, and it’s literally the only way runs are even happening right now. Spent 30 mins queued as DD with partner (also DD), I then switched to tank- bam, run. Enjoy the little things.

"this is in regards to Vet content, sure I get you."

Still bad guy keep doing 100% fake tank and fake healer in random Vet group mission "intentionally".
I saw 100% fake tank(no taunt and fragile) in the BC2 Vet yesterday. Totally stupid.

Please remove quick leaving penalty. Why fair player suffer stupid penalty?

Dungeons are not quicker with the amount of piddling dire fake tanks in the RND/Pledge queues.

Started a new character and have been running dungeons again recently for the skill points. God above, sweet baby jebus, every time I set foot inside an RND I'm reminded of how ruddy awful this side of the PvE community is. 7 out of 10 runs there's a fake tank or no tank as they left. They die even in normal mode. 3 runs of CoA2 last night the tank left immediately. I get it, you want speed runs, but you're wasting everyone's time by queuing repeatedly. Finished it with companions in the end.

Once again, I'm running a healer, in light armour, with some resist buffs, 30k health, and a pull taunt.

It genuinely boggles my mind that the PvE community cry out about the PvP community being toxic when this shiznazz is going on in dungeons constantly.

Oh god, I fricking hate fake tanks.

This has been happening for years... And it will never change as long as zos allows it to happen by not doing anything about it.

And it's not only happening in Normal Dungeons... I also get Fake Healers (a DPS queued as Healer but with zero heals slotted) in Veteran Base Game Dungeons, and even in Veteran DLC Dungeons, often multiple times per day! I don't know if there are Fake Tanks in Veteran Dungeons because I Tank so that I can prevent it from happening.

But it sure would be nice if zos would finally at least acknowledge this problem, and tell us if they even give a damn about it or not...