FrancisCrawford wrote: »Wait a moment -- weaving skills between heavy attacks is "free" in terms of time expended?
MudcrabAttack wrote: »It really depends on the DOT skill whether it’s worth adding to a single bar. Something like barbed trap will add a good chunk of hemorrhage status effect damage (around 2-3% of the fight total) + 2% passive weapon damage buff, + DOT (~3% of a fight total) + up-front direct damage (1%). Skills like soul trap aren’t adding much to a one bar build, they may represent 4-5% of damage during a long fight as most dots do, but passive damage buffs (skills that deal free damage for you) are hard to pass up
When I use the heavy attack build on my nightblade it’s locked into mediocre single target damage and decent AOE damage.
Concealed Weapon passively adds 10% to damage when standing inside twisting path, which is very hard to beat with any DOT skill.
Merciless resolve passively adds 300 weapon damage when you aren’t using the bow proc, on top of adding 2% crit rating+ hemorrhage passive 10% crit damage. It’s hard to time the cast of the assassins will without resetting the merciless resolve timer while performing a heavy attack, so I just leave it as a passive buff most of the time and save the bow proc for the last mob standing
This leaves just 3 other slots, so the way I use a nightblade heavy attack build involves mostly unstable wall of elements spam since it deals a big AOE direct damage hit when recast early, and re-applying twisting path and barbed trap when they run out. The other skills are passive buffs that outperform active damage over time skills
Killers blade isn’t as good to slot since heavy attacks slow down the pace by a lot, and a nightblade typically wants to spam killers blade as fast as possible during execute phase. I think the devs balanced nightblade around the potency of killers blade/impale, so they’re left out in last place for a heavy attack build when it comes to single target dps
FrancisCrawford wrote: »Wait a moment. (I'm saying that a lot.)
How does the Concealed Weapon/Twisting Path combo work? Reading the tooltips would suggesting that Twisting Path's Major Expedition buff rarely ends and so the Concealed Weapon damage bonus is rarely triggered by it.
What's really going on?
f047ys3v3n wrote: »So, it's pretty clear that Heavy attack + Sergeant's Mail + Storm Master + a shock staff + Empower is out performing anything else out there. The last 7 or 8 raids I have been on the #1 parse has been one of these in I believe all but one case where a DK using the last meta barely edged it out in a totally stack and whack fight. I also get how easy it is to put together with oaken soul on a sorc. Thing is, I don't think there is anything special about the sorc part at all and as for the ring, I'm convinced it makes you crazy tanky and makes it easy to do. I'm just not convinced it is the top way to eat that empowered cheese. I think maybe people just haven't realized that the secret sauce doesn't require it.
Bear with me. I have mained a sorc the last few years since I basically gave up on chasing the meta in favor of getting really good at doing one really versatile ranged build with acceptable dps. As I see it, sorc special sauce, what makes them generally good and worth playing, basically boils down to: Passive damage from tormenter equivalent to an active dot, frags procs, curse buffing atro+tormenter+scamp though sucking itself so it's only a smidge over a wash and probably under with matriarch, and crit surge being a good buff / hot. For this, you give up having really any really good class DOT's, a class spamable, or a first tier execute. I play it, so I think it's a worth trade off, for the frags, tormentor, and crit surge. I actually leave curse and scamp on the table (for shame.) Most OakenSorcs are leaving even more on the table. They don't use frags, have the other twilight morph leaving that on the table, and leave surge off for lack of room. Is a +5% passive damage buff with the "energized" passive really the win here? I know scamp isn't, that things damage is pathetic. That passive was never even good enough to get us to go shock over fire stave on the front bar before. I have to say, I get how easy OakenSorc is. My build is far less complex than the nightmare that was the last hybrid DOT management meta build but the OakenSorc does make my build look remarkably complex. Most of the OakenSorcs I have seen might cast 3 skills and some only 2 skills. I see top end players running these builds though. Dudes are not having issues managing a few bars and DOT timers. Even if you have all short duration DOTs, you have room for 4-5 of them in a rotation without loosing a single of the massively OP, buffed to the moon, empowered, 2x set buffed heavy. Is it really not worth while to have those 4-5 DOTs?
What I am wondering is.... Wouldn't it be substantially higher dps to pair the ubber OP, Empowered, and doubble set bonus buffed heavy shock attacks with a few DOTs than pairing them with almost nothing? In fact, wouldn't it be the highest DPS in game history? It's not like DOT's have a small damage multiplier relative to spamables or re-casting wall as if it was one right now. DOT's have one of the better multipliers they have had in the last 5-6 years.
Specifically, On a one bar Oaken Build, would you get more pairing 4x - 5x strong DOT's on a DK with that magnificent standard ulti and the OP Empowered 2x set buffed heavies than you do basically just getting a 5% Sorc passive?
When it comes to 2 bar builds, there are less choices. Most Empower sources are shorter duration than the ability that bears them such as the mages guild rune or entropy or are just attached to non- DOT or all together non-damage abilities. There is an exception though and it's a winner. Templar's Solar Barrage is a strong 20sec DOT with a full duration Empower. A two bar build constructed with that could take advantage of a different mythic or even a monster set. Sure, aside from Oaken, none of the other mythics are really that strong anymore. Mora's is OK though and Zaan and StormFist are OK monster sets. None of these make a build but all three are as strong as a typical 5pc bonus. That's an extra 5pc bonus. At the very least, on a fully buffed on a parse dummy wouldn't a templar build doing this be the top parser?
Anybody tried these things? Just wondering. I really don't expect to abandon what I am doing though who knows, ZOS did set the DPS check way to high on vRG HM and I would like to check that box.
FrancisCrawford wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »It really depends on the DOT skill whether it’s worth adding to a single bar. Something like barbed trap will add a good chunk of hemorrhage status effect damage (around 2-3% of the fight total) + 2% passive weapon damage buff, + DOT (~3% of a fight total) + up-front direct damage (1%). Skills like soul trap aren’t adding much to a one bar build, they may represent 4-5% of damage during a long fight as most dots do, but passive damage buffs (skills that deal free damage for you) are hard to pass up
When I use the heavy attack build on my nightblade it’s locked into mediocre single target damage and decent AOE damage.
Concealed Weapon passively adds 10% to damage when standing inside twisting path, which is very hard to beat with any DOT skill.
Merciless resolve passively adds 300 weapon damage when you aren’t using the bow proc, on top of adding 2% crit rating+ hemorrhage passive 10% crit damage. It’s hard to time the cast of the assassins will without resetting the merciless resolve timer while performing a heavy attack, so I just leave it as a passive buff most of the time and save the bow proc for the last mob standing
This leaves just 3 other slots, so the way I use a nightblade heavy attack build involves mostly unstable wall of elements spam since it deals a big AOE direct damage hit when recast early, and re-applying twisting path and barbed trap when they run out. The other skills are passive buffs that outperform active damage over time skills
Killers blade isn’t as good to slot since heavy attacks slow down the pace by a lot, and a nightblade typically wants to spam killers blade as fast as possible during execute phase. I think the devs balanced nightblade around the potency of killers blade/impale, so they’re left out in last place for a heavy attack build when it comes to single target dps
Wait a moment. (I'm saying that a lot.)
How does the Concealed Weapon/Twisting Path combo work? Reading the tooltips would suggesting that Twisting Path's Major Expedition buff rarely ends and so the Concealed Weapon damage bonus is rarely triggered by it.
What's really going on?
Back when U35 first dropped, I spent some time playing with heavy attack builds. One thing I checked was the number of heavy attacks that registered when I just held down the mouse button vs holding down the mouse button and queuing a skill. What I found then, and just re-verified, is that in a given minute, I get more heavy attacks in if I don't queue a skill.Billium813 wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Wait a moment -- weaving skills between heavy attacks is "free" in terms of time expended?
I could be completely wrong. But it feels like HA channeling has a built in animation cancel... or rather, that the animation time doesn't count against the HA channel duration as long as there is only 1 skill queued.
SirLeeMinion wrote: »Back when U35 first dropped, I spent some time playing with heavy attack builds. One thing I checked was the number of heavy attacks that registered when I just held down the mouse button vs holding down the mouse button and queuing a skill. What I found then, and just re-verified, is that in a given minute, I get about more heavy attacks in if I don't queue a skill.Billium813 wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Wait a moment -- weaving skills between heavy attacks is "free" in terms of time expended?
I could be completely wrong. But it feels like HA channeling has a built in animation cancel... or rather, that the animation time doesn't count against the HA channel duration as long as there is only 1 skill queued.
For example: in 1:01 minutes, I landed 78 heavy attacks only. Adding elemental blockade by queuing it as the heavy attack channeled I landed 70 heavy attacks in 1:02 minutes. So, it seems to me that the skill does actually add a bit of time between the heavy channels. Check me on this, ofc.
All this to say, that it seems to me that the queued skill isn't free so far as time is concerned. Thus, you have to evaluate whether the minimal additional time to cast the DoT is worth more than the heavy attacks you lose. Throw in some ping, accidentally re-casting because your bar didn't swap, and a mobile boss, and it may not really be worth it to manage all the dots on a back bar. This is especially true because, if you are going to run two bars, you'll likely do more damage running a meta build.
FrancisCrawford wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Back when U35 first dropped, I spent some time playing with heavy attack builds. One thing I checked was the number of heavy attacks that registered when I just held down the mouse button vs holding down the mouse button and queuing a skill. What I found then, and just re-verified, is that in a given minute, I get about more heavy attacks in if I don't queue a skill.Billium813 wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Wait a moment -- weaving skills between heavy attacks is "free" in terms of time expended?
I could be completely wrong. But it feels like HA channeling has a built in animation cancel... or rather, that the animation time doesn't count against the HA channel duration as long as there is only 1 skill queued.
For example: in 1:01 minutes, I landed 78 heavy attacks only. Adding elemental blockade by queuing it as the heavy attack channeled I landed 70 heavy attacks in 1:02 minutes. So, it seems to me that the skill does actually add a bit of time between the heavy channels. Check me on this, ofc.
All this to say, that it seems to me that the queued skill isn't free so far as time is concerned. Thus, you have to evaluate whether the minimal additional time to cast the DoT is worth more than the heavy attacks you lose. Throw in some ping, accidentally re-casting because your bar didn't swap, and a mobile boss, and it may not really be worth it to manage all the dots on a back bar. This is especially true because, if you are going to run two bars, you'll likely do more damage running a meta build.
Thanks, @SirLeeMinion ! I presume "about more" is a typo ... but for what?
SirLeeMinion wrote: »Back when U35 first dropped, I spent some time playing with heavy attack builds. One thing I checked was the number of heavy attacks that registered when I just held down the mouse button vs holding down the mouse button and queuing a skill. What I found then, and just re-verified, is that in a given minute, I get more heavy attacks in if I don't queue a skill.Billium813 wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Wait a moment -- weaving skills between heavy attacks is "free" in terms of time expended?
I could be completely wrong. But it feels like HA channeling has a built in animation cancel... or rather, that the animation time doesn't count against the HA channel duration as long as there is only 1 skill queued.
For example: in 1:01 minutes, I landed* 78 heavy attacks only. Adding elemental blockade by queuing it as the heavy attack channeled I landed 70 heavy attacks in 1:02 minutes. So, it seems to me that the skill does actually add a bit of time between the heavy channels. Check me on this, ofc.
All this to say, that it seems to me that the queued skill isn't free so far as time is concerned. Thus, you have to evaluate whether the minimal additional time to cast the DoT is worth more than the heavy attacks you lose. Throw in some ping, accidentally re-casting because your bar didn't swap, and a mobile boss, and it may not really be worth it to manage all the dots on a back bar. This is especially true because, if you are going to run two bars, you'll likely do more damage running a meta build.
*edit: "landed" means the hits recorded by Bandit's and so includes all hits in the channel
** changed "about more" to "more", ty for pointing that out!
Billium813 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Back when U35 first dropped, I spent some time playing with heavy attack builds. One thing I checked was the number of heavy attacks that registered when I just held down the mouse button vs holding down the mouse button and queuing a skill. What I found then, and just re-verified, is that in a given minute, I get more heavy attacks in if I don't queue a skill.Billium813 wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Wait a moment -- weaving skills between heavy attacks is "free" in terms of time expended?
I could be completely wrong. But it feels like HA channeling has a built in animation cancel... or rather, that the animation time doesn't count against the HA channel duration as long as there is only 1 skill queued.
For example: in 1:01 minutes, I landed* 78 heavy attacks only. Adding elemental blockade by queuing it as the heavy attack channeled I landed 70 heavy attacks in 1:02 minutes. So, it seems to me that the skill does actually add a bit of time between the heavy channels. Check me on this, ofc.
All this to say, that it seems to me that the queued skill isn't free so far as time is concerned. Thus, you have to evaluate whether the minimal additional time to cast the DoT is worth more than the heavy attacks you lose. Throw in some ping, accidentally re-casting because your bar didn't swap, and a mobile boss, and it may not really be worth it to manage all the dots on a back bar. This is especially true because, if you are going to run two bars, you'll likely do more damage running a meta build.
*edit: "landed" means the hits recorded by Bandit's and so includes all hits in the channel
** changed "about more" to "more", ty for pointing that out!
It may be dependent on the specific skill, but perhaps I'm wrong. I haven't really tested this timing before, but I went back over some of my saved combats and 78 HA per minute sounds about right. In all my HA testing, I am seeing ~26 final HAs per minute and ~52 channel hits per minute from Lightning Staff.
Channels:
( 1157 hits / 1343 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 51.69 hits / minute
( 469 hits / 544 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 51.73 hits / minute
( 453 hits / 524 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 51.87 hits / minute
Final Hits:
( 579 hits / 1343 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 25.87 hits / minute
( 235 hits / 544 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 25.92 hits / minute
( 226 hits / 524 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 25.88 hits / minute
I tested a bit weaving Blastbones (I'm not perfect, but I queued Blastbones on every other HA)
Channels:
( 336 hits / 412 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 48.93 hits / minute
( 333 hits / 409 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 48.85 hits / minute
Final Hits:
( 168 hits / 412 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 24.47 hits / minute
( 166 hits / 544 seconds ) * 60 seconds = 24.35 hits / minute
There is a noticeable drop, but I swear that the animation looks sped up for me. After BlastBones is done animating, the damage numbers from both channel hits feel like they are really close together and almost imperceptibly the same as without a skill. But it might just be a GUI thing and not real.
In my brief testing on a RAID dummy, my Oakenplar and Oakensorc were neck and neck. Both classes have damage buffs that apply. Sorc's have already been mentioned. Templar has +10% crit damage, Minor Sorcery, and Burning Light now procs from all damage. I can't speak to whether a pet sorc with Daedric Prey would be stronger as I tested without that.
It was pretty unscientific. I didn't do full parses, which is always suspect when you're wearing Bloodthirsty. I did reset the dummies frequently, though. I had Solar Barrage on the templar a few times, but may have had Hurricane on the sorc. Yes, mostly just heavy attacks. No ultimates, no full rotation.FrancisCrawford wrote: »In my brief testing on a RAID dummy, my Oakenplar and Oakensorc were neck and neck. Both classes have damage buffs that apply. Sorc's have already been mentioned. Templar has +10% crit damage, Minor Sorcery, and Burning Light now procs from all damage. I can't speak to whether a pet sorc with Daedric Prey would be stronger as I tested without that.
I presume from the way you phrased that that you tested without weaving skills?
My main objective was comparing lightning and resto stavesFrancisCrawford wrote: »In my brief testing on a RAID dummy, my Oakenplar and Oakensorc were neck and neck. Both classes have damage buffs that apply. Sorc's have already been mentioned. Templar has +10% crit damage, Minor Sorcery, and Burning Light now procs from all damage. I can't speak to whether a pet sorc with Daedric Prey would be stronger as I tested without that.
I presume from the way you phrased that that you tested without weaving skills?
Billium813 wrote: »My main objective was comparing lightning and resto stavesFrancisCrawford wrote: »In my brief testing on a RAID dummy, my Oakenplar and Oakensorc were neck and neck. Both classes have damage buffs that apply. Sorc's have already been mentioned. Templar has +10% crit damage, Minor Sorcery, and Burning Light now procs from all damage. I can't speak to whether a pet sorc with Daedric Prey would be stronger as I tested without that.
I presume from the way you phrased that that you tested without weaving skills?
I stopped testing Resto staves for damage since Resto has been nerfed (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615168/additional-combat-changes-for-update-35/p1). ZOS doesn't like knowing that Resto staves can do as much damage as other staves (which is understandable IMO). If it ever pops up again in damage, maybe thanks to some set interactions, I suspect itll be quickly nerfed again.
Necrotech_Master wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »My main objective was comparing lightning and resto stavesFrancisCrawford wrote: »In my brief testing on a RAID dummy, my Oakenplar and Oakensorc were neck and neck. Both classes have damage buffs that apply. Sorc's have already been mentioned. Templar has +10% crit damage, Minor Sorcery, and Burning Light now procs from all damage. I can't speak to whether a pet sorc with Daedric Prey would be stronger as I tested without that.
I presume from the way you phrased that that you tested without weaving skills?
I stopped testing Resto staves for damage since Resto has been nerfed (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615168/additional-combat-changes-for-update-35/p1). ZOS doesn't like knowing that Resto staves can do as much damage as other staves (which is understandable IMO). If it ever pops up again in damage, maybe thanks to some set interactions, I suspect itll be quickly nerfed again.
the main difference between resto and lightning destro is the lightning destro has the cleave from tri-focus, where as resto is fully single target
while resto is likely going to be lower than lightning even in a single target scenario, its also likely to be still better than most other weapons heavy attacks due to the multiple hits getting boosted
Billium813 wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »My main objective was comparing lightning and resto stavesFrancisCrawford wrote: »In my brief testing on a RAID dummy, my Oakenplar and Oakensorc were neck and neck. Both classes have damage buffs that apply. Sorc's have already been mentioned. Templar has +10% crit damage, Minor Sorcery, and Burning Light now procs from all damage. I can't speak to whether a pet sorc with Daedric Prey would be stronger as I tested without that.
I presume from the way you phrased that that you tested without weaving skills?
I stopped testing Resto staves for damage since Resto has been nerfed (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615168/additional-combat-changes-for-update-35/p1). ZOS doesn't like knowing that Resto staves can do as much damage as other staves (which is understandable IMO). If it ever pops up again in damage, maybe thanks to some set interactions, I suspect itll be quickly nerfed again.
the main difference between resto and lightning destro is the lightning destro has the cleave from tri-focus, where as resto is fully single target
while resto is likely going to be lower than lightning even in a single target scenario, its also likely to be still better than most other weapons heavy attacks due to the multiple hits getting boosted
----Heavy Attacks + Champion Points----
Restoration Staff
Ice Staff
Inferno Staff
Lightning Staff
----Heavy Attacks + Sergeant's Mail + Champion Points----
Ice Staff
Inferno Staff
Restoration Staff
Lightning Staff
Yep. Restoration staff is basically the worst DPS in single target damage. But once it gets boosted, thanks to that channel, it becomes even better than Inferno at single target damage.
What is the conclusion from this?
- Restoration staff deals too much damage?
- Inferno staff doesn't deal enough damage?
- HA boosting sets unfairly boost HA channel damage?
- Lightning staff does too much single target damage?
I feel like 2, 3, & 4 are probably correct. I feel like Inferno should be hitting harder than Lightning on single target damage and it feels a bit unfair for a generic HA set to boost the unique channel HA on Lightning and Restoration more than any other HA weapon in the game. But if you just stop at 1 and say "oh, it must be Restoration Staff", then the HA damage is just nerfed more and nothing is really solved.
Necrotech_Master wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »My main objective was comparing lightning and resto stavesFrancisCrawford wrote: »In my brief testing on a RAID dummy, my Oakenplar and Oakensorc were neck and neck. Both classes have damage buffs that apply. Sorc's have already been mentioned. Templar has +10% crit damage, Minor Sorcery, and Burning Light now procs from all damage. I can't speak to whether a pet sorc with Daedric Prey would be stronger as I tested without that.
I presume from the way you phrased that that you tested without weaving skills?
I stopped testing Resto staves for damage since Resto has been nerfed (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615168/additional-combat-changes-for-update-35/p1). ZOS doesn't like knowing that Resto staves can do as much damage as other staves (which is understandable IMO). If it ever pops up again in damage, maybe thanks to some set interactions, I suspect itll be quickly nerfed again.
the main difference between resto and lightning destro is the lightning destro has the cleave from tri-focus, where as resto is fully single target
while resto is likely going to be lower than lightning even in a single target scenario, its also likely to be still better than most other weapons heavy attacks due to the multiple hits getting boosted
----Heavy Attacks + Champion Points----
Restoration Staff
Ice Staff
Inferno Staff
Lightning Staff
----Heavy Attacks + Sergeant's Mail + Champion Points----
Ice Staff
Inferno Staff
Restoration Staff
Lightning Staff
Yep. Restoration staff is basically the worst DPS in single target damage. But once it gets boosted, thanks to that channel, it becomes even better than Inferno at single target damage.
What is the conclusion from this?
- Restoration staff deals too much damage?
- Inferno staff doesn't deal enough damage?
- HA boosting sets unfairly boost HA channel damage?
- Lightning staff does too much single target damage?
I feel like 2, 3, & 4 are probably correct. I feel like Inferno should be hitting harder than Lightning on single target damage and it feels a bit unfair for a generic HA set to boost the unique channel HA on Lightning and Restoration more than any other HA weapon in the game. But if you just stop at 1 and say "oh, it must be Restoration Staff", then the HA damage is just nerfed more and nothing is really solved.
i feel like the biggest difference between the heavies is the channel (your point 3)
the only 2 heavy attacks that have channeled ticks are lightning and resto, so they immediately become better once you add heavy attack sets + empower because HA sets add their dmg on every channeled tick in addition to the final burst
so in your list i think point 3 is the biggest point of difference between lighitning/resto and the rest of the weapons
i also see your only testing staves, would it not also be a fair comparison to include the stam setups too (duel wield, 1h/shield, 2h, bow)
duel wield technically does 2 hits on a heavy, which both would get buffed by HA sets and empower (though each individual hit is much weaker than a single hit, so i dont know how it would compare, and 2h melee technically also has cleave dmg like lightning, but only 1 single dmg hit thats getting buffed
Necrotech_Master wrote: »when your talking say the aoe potential of the heavy attacks, lightning is miles ahead due to the tri-focus cleave, then i would say 2h melee is next best due to the passive it gets for splash dmg on light/heavy attacks, with all of the others not even registering because they have no aoe potential
Billium813 wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »when your talking say the aoe potential of the heavy attacks, lightning is miles ahead due to the tri-focus cleave, then i would say 2h melee is next best due to the passive it gets for splash dmg on light/heavy attacks, with all of the others not even registering because they have no aoe potential
Seems correct in my interpretations.
I think at this point, my biggest issues are
- At base, I think Lightning Staff is doing more damage than it should. It's the highest DPS, single target staff AND it gets a an AOE cleave (not to mention the concussed/off balance bonuses). I would like to see Inferno Staff buffed substantially, making it much more comparable to Bow. Then, maybe have Lightning Staff lessened a bit to be more comparable to Ice Staff. Alternatively, maybe the channel shouldn't cleave too? There's a number of things that could be done.
- For boosting HA damage sets, it feels like the spirit of generic HA sets implies they should be more equal across weapon choices. My whole start of this investigation was in how HA builds atm lack any weapon diversity and the stamina variants underperform. It isn't just the Tri-Focus cleave from Lightning Staff either; the single target still makes it the absolute winning choice. I think removing HA sets boosting of Off Hand and channels, IOW only applying buffs to the final hits, would help even out the options. To achieve similar DPS, I wouldn't mind raising the buff damage up more
I would like to see Inferno Staff being single best DPS staff for single target damage, with the weakness being no AOE. Lightning Staff being the second best single target, perhaps be a good margin, with the upside being AOE damage. And Ice Staff being perhaps even less damage, but more defensive (as it already is).
Necrotech_Master wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »when your talking say the aoe potential of the heavy attacks, lightning is miles ahead due to the tri-focus cleave, then i would say 2h melee is next best due to the passive it gets for splash dmg on light/heavy attacks, with all of the others not even registering because they have no aoe potential
Seems correct in my interpretations.
I think at this point, my biggest issues are
- At base, I think Lightning Staff is doing more damage than it should. It's the highest DPS, single target staff AND it gets a an AOE cleave (not to mention the concussed/off balance bonuses). I would like to see Inferno Staff buffed substantially, making it much more comparable to Bow. Then, maybe have Lightning Staff lessened a bit to be more comparable to Ice Staff. Alternatively, maybe the channel shouldn't cleave too? There's a number of things that could be done.
- For boosting HA damage sets, it feels like the spirit of generic HA sets implies they should be more equal across weapon choices. My whole start of this investigation was in how HA builds atm lack any weapon diversity and the stamina variants underperform. It isn't just the Tri-Focus cleave from Lightning Staff either; the single target still makes it the absolute winning choice. I think removing HA sets boosting of Off Hand and channels, IOW only applying buffs to the final hits, would help even out the options. To achieve similar DPS, I wouldn't mind raising the buff damage up more
I would like to see Inferno Staff being single best DPS staff for single target damage, with the weakness being no AOE. Lightning Staff being the second best single target, perhaps be a good margin, with the upside being AOE damage. And Ice Staff being perhaps even less damage, but more defensive (as it already is).
i thought that during either u35/36 (dont remember exactly which one) empower was actually changed to affect the channel ticks because it initially did not affect the channel ticks at all, only the final hit, which ironically was probably better for balance had they not done that lol
Necrotech_Master wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »when your talking say the aoe potential of the heavy attacks, lightning is miles ahead due to the tri-focus cleave, then i would say 2h melee is next best due to the passive it gets for splash dmg on light/heavy attacks, with all of the others not even registering because they have no aoe potential
Seems correct in my interpretations.
I think at this point, my biggest issues are
- At base, I think Lightning Staff is doing more damage than it should. It's the highest DPS, single target staff AND it gets a an AOE cleave (not to mention the concussed/off balance bonuses). I would like to see Inferno Staff buffed substantially, making it much more comparable to Bow. Then, maybe have Lightning Staff lessened a bit to be more comparable to Ice Staff. Alternatively, maybe the channel shouldn't cleave too? There's a number of things that could be done.
- For boosting HA damage sets, it feels like the spirit of generic HA sets implies they should be more equal across weapon choices. My whole start of this investigation was in how HA builds atm lack any weapon diversity and the stamina variants underperform. It isn't just the Tri-Focus cleave from Lightning Staff either; the single target still makes it the absolute winning choice. I think removing HA sets boosting of Off Hand and channels, IOW only applying buffs to the final hits, would help even out the options. To achieve similar DPS, I wouldn't mind raising the buff damage up more
I would like to see Inferno Staff being single best DPS staff for single target damage, with the weakness being no AOE. Lightning Staff being the second best single target, perhaps be a good margin, with the upside being AOE damage. And Ice Staff being perhaps even less damage, but more defensive (as it already is).
however i think if you removed both the empower + HA sets from buffing the channel ticks, im not sure how low on the scale lightning would fall, or if it would even be useable for a HA build outside of the access to cleave dmg (an advantage it still holds on all other HA save for the 2h technically)