ESO pvp really requires no skill at all anymore

gamerguy757 · November 2021

I miss the days of strategizing an attack on an enemy and actually using a combination of attacks to down an enemy.
Now it’s Jab jab jab, snipe snipe snipe, carve carve carve, proc proc proc.
I think I’m starting to see what people are saying about PvP in eso.
Pvp in eso is like new yugioh. There’s no skill required…just do one thing and you somehow win.

Urzigurumash · November 2021

The idea that simply increasing damage increases the skillfulness of combat was always wrong - it can also simplify combat as you describe. Many elements have to be in balance for combat to reach its utmost potential.

But, not entirely new to be effective by spamming a single skill. Spin 2 Win Wardens from a few years back come to mind, and of course Wrecking Blow with the old Empower. I think Snipe Spamming is the weakest it's been in a good while.

mocap · November 2021

lemme guess: you are playing on console? Nothing ill with it, don't get me wrong, im console player as well, except ESO and Flight Simulator xd

Sure there is a lot of one skill zerg spamers on PC too. But pro players, especially small scales, use many skills and tactics to balance defence and well timing offence. Ball groups manage superior performance of sets, skills and coordination. Pro solo players (mostly stam NBs) manage landscape with Shadow Image and can kite 10+ players alone and still do kills.

Urzigurumash · November 2021

mocap wrote: »

lemme guess: you are playing on console? Nothing ill with it, don't get me wrong, im console player as well, except ESO and Flight Simulator xd

Sure there is a lot of one skill zerg spamers on PC too. But pro players, especially small scales, use many skills and tactics to balance defence and well timing offence. Ball groups manage superior performance of sets, skills and coordination. Pro solo players (mostly stam NBs) manage landscape with Shadow Image and can kite 10+ players alone and still do kills.

People get paid to play on PC?

Stx · November 2021

This game has always had such poor server performance and unresponsive break free / button uses, never cared much for the pvp.

But I don't think its worse now than it has been in the past. Every patch has some new broken mechanic, whether its one shot proc sets, dots doing extreme damage, or whatever.

SkaraMinoc · November 2021

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Pvp in eso is like new yugioh. There’s no skill required…just do one thing and you somehow win.

In casual "low MMR" battlegrounds this might seem true, especially for under 50 and console PvP.

gamerguy757 wrote: »

I miss the days of strategizing an attack on an enemy and actually using a combination of attacks to down an enemy.

ESO has the highest skill cap PvP in any MMORPG. I make that statement with 25 years of MMO PvP experience.

Tactics and combos do exist, you just haven't discovered them yet.

Urzigurumash · November 2021

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

console PvP

We're all volunteers, what do you expect?

I agree combat is more skillful compared to most games, on Console not many open world games come remotely close. Jab jab jab has been around for a very long time, and Carve Carve Carve is still weak. The loss of the extra 1m on that for DK's turned out worse than I expected, despite the increased arc.

I think Cyrodiil is pretty good right now, minus the conspicuous outliers, but I think damage - and healing - are too strong in BGs. To me it seemed more "skillful" when 1m damage or healing weren't quite as easy to get.

I also think a balance between DoTs and Direct Damage is the best way to reduce what the OP describes, single spammable playstyles. For me, DoTs seem much more effective in Cyrodiil than BGs right now.

ealdwin · November 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

console PvP

...

I also think a balance between DoTs and Direct Damage is the best way to reduce what the OP describes, single spammable playstyles. For me, DoTs seem much more effective in Cyrodiil than BGs right now.

I feel like DoTs are still recovering from Dragonhold nerf-hammers. Even in PVE if feels like the rotation is just a few DoTs and then hit the spammable for many times in a row until you need to refresh DoTs.

Jab spam is a pretty good example. Templars don't spam jabs for brainless damage. They do it because they have nothing better to do. Templar's Burst ability fires after 6 seconds, the AoE damage ability lasts 10 seconds, one of the DoT morphs lasts a whopping 16 seconds. Not to mention Burning Light, which procs most consistently with repeated use of Jabs. Using any other ability as a spammable for PVE is a damage loss. So, yeah, Templar's use one ability fairly frequently, but its because they really don't have many other options.

With DoTs just lasting for a long time, and having ok-ish damage (not looking for Scalebreaker levels, not at all) it makes sense that players gravitate towards whatever allows them to do the most damage consistently.

Austacker · November 2021

I find the mode of PvP play is pretty much the same every time.

Chip damage until you get into burst range
Then stun
Then burst
Then win

That's basically all there is to PvP in this game in my experience.

I don't PvP anymore, especially now that all the PvP experience in this game is just Deathmatch.

Baconlad · November 2021

The skill in PvP is being able to anticipate burst incoming. Being able to recover when burst happens. It's always been that for the most part. Ignore burst and get punished, counter burst and get rewarded. What do I know though I haven't PvPed in over a year. Got GO on my pc main and left for awhile. Moved to Xbox and started over! One day I'll get GO though XD

MentalxHammer · November 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

lemme guess: you are playing on console? Nothing ill with it, don't get me wrong, im console player as well, except ESO and Flight Simulator xd

Sure there is a lot of one skill zerg spamers on PC too. But pro players, especially small scales, use many skills and tactics to balance defence and well timing offence. Ball groups manage superior performance of sets, skills and coordination. Pro solo players (mostly stam NBs) manage landscape with Shadow Image and can kite 10+ players alone and still do kills.

People get paid to play on PC?

No, but I play like it’s my job xD

PhoenixGrey · November 2021

The skill ceiling continues to fall over time especially in no CP. Set combos are more powerful than your skill combos right now and that is pretty much the direction taken by ZOS over the last couple of years.

The game really has become casual and noob friendly. Even the top players in this game are average noobs at this point as they hit the skill ceiling pretty quickly

Amottica · November 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

lemme guess: you are playing on console? Nothing ill with it, don't get me wrong, im console player as well, except ESO and Flight Simulator xd

Sure there is a lot of one skill zerg spamers on PC too. But pro players, especially small scales, use many skills and tactics to balance defence and well timing offence. Ball groups manage superior performance of sets, skills and coordination. Pro solo players (mostly stam NBs) manage landscape with Shadow Image and can kite 10+ players alone and still do kills.

People get paid to play on PC?

People sometimes use the term "Pro" to suggest they think the person is a good player. It is not common, has nothing to do with them being paid or not, and is just an opinion.

At that, there are streamers out there that do get paid for their streaming via advertisers, but that does not mean they are good players either, just entertaining enough to get enough followers.

ATomiX69 · November 2021

PvP in ESO hasnt taken skill in years.

play X fotm class
equip Y cheesy set
do Z burst combo and reset fights until you get an opportunity to kill or your opponent falls asleep

Or in easier terms:
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey win.

Ryuvain · November 2021

ATomiX69 wrote: »

PvP in ESO hasnt taken skill in years.
play X fotm class

equip Y cheesy set

do Z burst combo and reset fights until you get an opportunity to kill or your opponent falls asleep

Or in easier terms:
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey win.

That reset fights or fall asleep part is why I stopped pvp. Extremely annoying fighting sorc or nightblade. They don't kill me the first 5 times, streak/shade away, I get bored and try to leave, then get hit trying to port/door. Grr.

Ezorus · November 2021

gamerguy757 wrote: »

I miss the days of strategizing an attack on an enemy and actually using a combination of attacks to down an enemy.
Now it’s Jab jab jab, snipe snipe snipe, carve carve carve, proc proc proc.
I think I’m starting to see what people are saying about PvP in eso.
Pvp in eso is like new yugioh. There’s no skill required…just do one thing and you somehow win.

Yu Gi Oh should never have added XYZ, Synchro and Pendulum summons 😒

NerfSeige · November 2021

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

and console PvP.

This is a bad take, there’s not really a big skill gap in pc and console imo (at least on ps and pc NA). Except PC/EU, PC/EU is the home of the best pvpers imo.

$spacefracking$ · November 2021

gamerguy757 wrote: »

I miss the days of strategizing an attack on an enemy and actually using a combination of attacks to down an enemy.
Now it’s Jab jab jab, snipe snipe snipe, carve carve carve, proc proc proc.
I think I’m starting to see what people are saying about PvP in eso.
Pvp in eso is like new yugioh. There’s no skill required…just do one thing and you somehow win.

This is not true at all. Go watch a video or something, as explaining how combat actually works in this game is a. It outside the scope of a forum reply. I'm not sure who you're playing against, or how you personally are playing, but it does sound, as you say in the title and this post, there is 'no skill' involved. Skill def exists, and it's not hard to find.

DrSlaughtr · November 2021

Skill exists but they have forced the ceiling downward.

DontWorryAboutit · November 2021

gamerguy757 wrote: »

I miss the days of strategizing an attack on an enemy and actually using a combination of attacks to down an enemy.
Now it’s Jab jab jab, snipe snipe snipe, carve carve carve, proc proc proc.
I think I’m starting to see what people are saying about PvP in eso.
Pvp in eso is like new yugioh. There’s no skill required…just do one thing and you somehow win.

Snipe is ineffective!

pvp is Sets vs Sets.... Literally run and hide till ultimate is ready then proc ya sets, crutching on sets not only made server performance worse they made pvp a carnival theatrical show.

EF321 · November 2021

DontWorryAboutit wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

I miss the days of strategizing an attack on an enemy and actually using a combination of attacks to down an enemy.
Now it’s Jab jab jab, snipe snipe snipe, carve carve carve, proc proc proc.
I think I’m starting to see what people are saying about PvP in eso.
Pvp in eso is like new yugioh. There’s no skill required…just do one thing and you somehow win.

Snipe is ineffective!

pvp is Sets vs Sets.... Literally run and hide till ultimate is ready then proc ya sets, crutching on sets not only made server performance worse they made pvp a carnival theatrical show.

Ravenwatch is silky smooth experience?

Brrrofski · November 2021

You're never going to kill me by just spamming one skill.

No way on earth.

rexagamemnon · November 2021

PvP has been more interesting to me more often than not, when CP is disabled. Ive noticed in the past and even today especially in BGs…take away someone’s CP, and next thing you know they went from hero to zero in no time flat. Ive taken down plenty of 4&5 star players when CP is disabled. I guess my playstyle/set choices work best in no CP pvp zones

etchedpixels · November 2021

Have to disagree - at least for no-cp which is all I can claim competence at 8). There's a lot of strategy involved now in taking keeps, in sieging and splitting groups and in getting stuff like combat prayer and purges down because it's not streak, stun, dc, repeat.

Still way too much lag and rubber banding going on. ZoS needs those new servers ASAP especially if they are going to have ultra cheap game sales on Black Friday at the same point New World is having another rollback and WoW is in meltdown.

WabanakiWarrior · November 2021

Absolutely man. It's a bummer how they've dumbed this game down.

To give an example, the changes to the Burning Light proc in the Templar skill line:

"Burning Light: This passive has been slightly reworked so that the damage now triggers when you deal damage 4 times within rapid succession to an enemy with an Aedric Spear ability, rather than having a 25% chance to proc per hit. Note that the time window is long enough that abilities that hit at least once every second between will continue to proc this passive."

There used to be a 25% chance to proc Burning Light on any Aedric Spear ability. They changed it to require 4 hits from an Aedric Spear ability in rapid succession. For magplars, that basically means only Crescent Sweep, Puncturing Sweep and Spear Shards. You can reliably proc it in PVE using Spear Shards, but no one is going to sit in your shards in PVP. So if you want to utilize BL, you're basically stuck spamming jabs. That change killed a lot of builds and a lot of fun theory crafting for templars.