[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

Tryxus · October 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

Tryxus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

It's the wardens stamwhip at this point. Lot of support behind it.

Whiskey_JG · October 2021

I would even add Arctic Blast to the list that needs rework, apart from FROST SHALKS.

Heck ZoS can we get our eternal guardian to be a Polar Bear? for RP purposes

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

Whiskey_JG wrote: »

I would even add Arctic Blast to the list that needs rework, apart from FROST SHALKS.

Heck ZoS can we get our eternal guardian to be a Polar Bear? for RP purposes

not sure if frost shalks is so much of a rework if the only thing it gets is a damage type change. but it would be nice to be able to sustain fissure for roughly the same damage as sub assault does now. but yeah, blast really needs a rework that fits the class, because right now it's a jack of all trades mess morph that doesn't need to heal and got the stun completely wrong.

LeHarrt91 · November 2021

So I have been PvPing a lot recently trying out different setups to see what works for MagDen and I get Cyrodiil is designed for large scale fights but I will mostly be referring to self healing in small scale/ solo play.

None of the Warden Class heals are sufficient enough for burst healing without sacrificing too much of something else, whether that be damage, global cooldowns or bar space and most of the nerfs have been due to the dominance of StamDen.

Arctic Blast's max health scaling was nerfed, so you now need to invest more into max health to try and get a decent single target burst heal (40k+). This means MagDen has to sacrifice damage to increase survivability, but this nerf was due to the abundance of HP stacking tanks and StamDens, and there was no compensation to heals for the MagDen to utilize.

With the Green Balance tree heals, in group content they are great. But there is no longer a good single target self heal.
Budding Seeds has 2 global cooldowns, the casting of the skill and the recast for the burst heal. Enchanted Growth is a good group healer skill but is too expensive and doesn't heal enough to be a good self heal. Living Trellis use to be our go to Burst heal but it was nerfed several patches ago and we have received no other buffs to help remedy these nerfs. Bursting Vines seems to be a great single target burst heal, similar to Breath of Life/ Rend Flesh/ Coagulating Blood, it just cannot target the caster.
So with a lack of good class single target burst heals we are forced to resort to Restoration Staff Heals, which means we do not get any benefit from Emerald Moss (nor do we Natures Gift because we are not healing others). Several of the wardens passives are designed so that you load your skill bars with as many skills from each specific tree, which is relatively fine in PvE but hinders setups in PvP.
Also we struggle to get benefit from Healing CP with our Class heals as we would have to slot 2-3 healing slotables, since our class heals are combinations of AoE and HoT or Single target burst and HoT, which again you would sacrifice damage.

I understand that Warden best shines in Group Utility but with all the nerfs to Major/ Minor buffs and healing options like Arctic Blast and Trellis, Solo/ Small Scale is really hard to enjoy playing.

Add on to all this the fact that Light Armor is not in a good place, the penalties are too high, shields are weak and too expensive, so we are forced to focus on healing power and with defiles and burst potential our heals just do not cut it.
Several PvP tier lists have been made and Warden (specifically MagDen) sits at the bottom.

I truly hope to see some buffs come for MagDens in PvP, for many people its their favorite class but a rare sight these days.

lrs8855b14_ESO · November 2021

I'm frustrated that Magicka's heal gets a unique buff, whilst Stamina's does not.

I'm frustrated that Magicka's Shalks applies the debuff it would most benefit from.

Greek_Hellspawn · November 2021

lrs8855b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm frustrated that Magicka's heal gets a unique buff, whilst Stamina's does not.

I'm frustrated that Magicka's Shalks applies the debuff it would most benefit from.

What unique heal does magden get that is actually useful?

Also major fracture is a really common buff, personally i would rather mag had the stamina morph.

Stamden is much superior than magden.

LeHarrt91 · November 2021

lrs8855b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm frustrated that Magicka's heal gets a unique buff, whilst Stamina's does not.

I'm frustrated that Magicka's Shalks applies the debuff it would most benefit from.

Are you referring to the recovery from Enchant Growth? This skill costs like 4k magicka and gives 15% to mag/stam recovery (Rally also gives 15% to Stam recovery). Only group healers would use Enchanted Growth, its to expensive and doesn't heal enough for a single target.

Sub Assault did have major Fracture (before they combined into Breach) and it was deemed OP and removed from Sub Assault. StamDens burst potential is very high and they do not need breach. (you can get breach via Crushing Weapon, but also Maces give a lot of pen as well).

ESO_Nightingale · November 2021

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

lrs8855b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm frustrated that Magicka's heal gets a unique buff, whilst Stamina's does not.

I'm frustrated that Magicka's Shalks applies the debuff it would most benefit from.

What unique heal does magden get that is actually useful?

I get what you mean, you're refering to self healing which is in an absolutely horrific state, but for group healing budding seeds is pretty great.

And then you look at [snip] like lotus flower, OF WHICH both morphs should just be a baseline effect with a dps and a healing morph. it's such an awful skill right now that was just copy pasted from NB.

DPS Wardens can't provide minor toughness for their group unless using this absolutely awful skill which is still a damage loss, or unless they pop a healing orb synergy which is just plain bad design.

[edited for profanity bypass]

miguelcura · November 2021

In PVE: Magden needs to grant some benefit to the group that makes his dps spot desirable. That happens with all classes. Come on ZoS ...

ESO_Nightingale · November 2021

miguelcura wrote: »

In PVE: Magden needs to grant some benefit to the group that makes his dps spot desirable. That happens with all classes. Come on ZoS ...

We're trying to do that by making it a no brainer to run it as the brittle applier rather than tanks since it should be a minimal damage loss at all if any at all to run double frost on a warden. The biggest problem is it lacks frost damage skills that are really good besides winter's revenge and frost reach. This plays into both theme and viability.

Whiskey_JG · November 2021

Giving us frost shalks would also tie in with the logic of this new patch for hybridization. We want more viability and options for magdens to deviate from the fire staff mentality.

Whiskey_JG · November 2021

So with the recent change to Frost reach as a viable Magden spammable I have been doing some testing on various possible setups. The goal of which is rather simple - achieve the best possible dps while still being in a support role for chilled and minor brittle uptimes.

In my pursuit of a good setup naturally one first goes through the pure frost based sets available in the game which sadly are few and far between. The most usable of the frost sets is obviously Frostbite which gives a rather varied set of buffs to Frost dmg, chilled and brittle. As much as I tried to make this setup work (my best dps with it was 92k - which is not bad at all), it still was not enough to beat a Bahsei + kilt/monster set setup (which went well over 100k). On both parses chilled uptime was at 99% but the actual chill damage tick is very low - ranging between 1.5k - 1.8k tops. So although ZoS made a frost specific set for the specific use of magdens to make the most of minor brittle, that set is actually not needed to achieve high dps + good brittle uptimes.

Conceptually Frostbite makes a lot of sense because it isnt a brain dead proc set that just deals base dmg. The set has been designed for Frost class identity by buffing the effectiveness of the debuffs, hence I deduce that ZoS really want to make FrostDen an actual viable possibility.

The class requires some buffs tho to really push it up front and I see it happening in one of 2 ways:
a) a rework of Chilled is required - perhaps add a DoT component to it (though admittedly it would make chilled overburdened) but it would make chilled work similarly to Burning status effects thereby doing DoT frost damage...OR

b) Increasing the sources of Frost damage, so Frostbite can be more effective. Frost damage can be implemented either through a rework of certain skills like Deep Fissure (making it do Frost dmg) or by adding new sets in the game. Currently the game has very limited possibilities for frost sets and one cannot help but notice the lack of Frost based Monster sets - iceheart being the sole choice. This brings me to the below suggestion submitted in a different thread :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/587571/frost-dps-based-set-ideas/p1

The introduction of this monster set would push the damage output of Frostdens to a competitive level. The chill tick damage referenced above would increase from 1.5k to around 5.3k......add Frostbite to the equation and that would increase even more. Chill dmg would equal the output of high tier Monster set. This set would also make Frost Pulsar a usable skill (although the minor protection gain is kinda redundant). Honestly I think this would also fit within the hybridisation mentality of the current patch to make more different setups work equally well in trials.

I hope ZoS takes these ideas into consideration as there has been too much focus on Fire based dps these past 2 years.

Regards
Whiskey

ESO_Nightingale · November 2021

Whiskey_JG wrote: »

The set has been designed for Frost class identity by buffing the effectiveness of the debuffs, hence I deduce that ZoS really want to make FrostDen an actual viable possibility.

Yeah, Rich Lambert said as such to me when I asked about if we could potentially get a new frost monster helmet in the future. They are definitely trying to make it a viable thing.

I really appreciate the recent effort with frostbite and frost reach. but the archetype is still lacking more viable skills and especially a full dps monster helmet. Iceheart has the critical problem where it's damage can be removed since it is tied to the damage shield's uptime. I think that design is fine, but it's still the only frost monster helmet that we have when the fire damage based monster helmet numbers are up to like 8 now. Having something like Nunatak (provided the numbers are balanced) would give frost dps a really unique power to be able to execute passively much more than other builds while tying that into how their gameplay is. chilled proc is basically everything for a frost DPS. It's where their identity lies that seperates it from other classes and builds. to have an item set that even further builds into the dps that chilled can do would just be incredible and doesn't specifically tie it to warden either. while it can be argued that frostbite is similar, they both buff chilled in different ways. with frostbite, chilled becomes a more powerful self buff as a frost warden gets a 10% critical damage boost and a 4-6% regular damage boost to those targets. These effects are just tied to having as much uptime on it as possible, where as the Nunatak set idea means that we get a huge bonus for not specifically having as much reliable uptime on it as possible, but rather, as much proc we can possibly achieve, since it buffs the single direct damage tick of chilled, not giving us a bonus for 4 seconds. it's distinction as a monster helmet also means that it's an option to build into, rather than a requirement to have as much chilled proccing as possible, allowing people who don't like that, to build differently, how they want.

LeHarrt91 · November 2021

Yeah it will be interesting to see what comes next.

Aelsioln · November 2021

I've only skimmed pages 37 and 38 so far (too tired, will read more after sleep) and I just wanted to point out that there are some of us wardens that like to keep a distance out there whether using a staff or bow. I actually made my warden specifically because I wanted a completely ranged character and the warden abilities seemed to fit that along with looking amazing.

I know that the ranged condition on Dive and its morphs isn't great for players that want to play right up in the enemy's face but instead of swapping that around, punishing range while rewarding up close, why not just remove any range condition? Could do a flat damage buff to the magicka morph and let the stamina morph keep the bleed?

With the bear... I have a love/hate relationship with it. Making the bear a temporary summon, like the necromancer's summons, would be interesting. Just please don't include a buff where you have to stand next to it like I saw suggested... That'd again punish the ranged players.

Magicka wardens definitely need more frost. I agree with that for sure.

ESO_Nightingale · November 2021

Aelsioln wrote: »

I've only skimmed pages 37 and 38 so far (too tired, will read more after sleep) and I just wanted to point out that there are some of us wardens that like to keep a distance out there whether using a staff or bow. I actually made my warden specifically because I wanted a completely ranged character and the warden abilities seemed to fit that along with looking amazing.

I know that the ranged condition on Dive and its morphs isn't great for players that want to play right up in the enemy's face but instead of swapping that around, punishing range while rewarding up close, why not just remove any range condition? Could do a flat damage buff to the magicka morph and let the stamina morph keep the bleed?

With the bear... I have a love/hate relationship with it. Making the bear a temporary summon, like the necromancer's summons, would be interesting. Just please don't include a buff where you have to stand next to it like I saw suggested... That'd again punish the ranged players.

Magicka wardens definitely need more frost. I agree with that for sure.

37 and 38 are really the only recent pages. Everything else was from more than a year ago.

Adressing what you said about dive, it's not that we want to play in melee range necessarily. It's that that is literally where fights happen most commonly since enemies always close the gap in pvp unless they're also ranged and a lot of stam players in pvp are melee as well. Removing the requirement works i suppose but at the same time there are other fundamental problems with the spammable. It has nothing mechanically to do with the class at all. It has no combo potential with shalks, it's slow as hell in melee range for no reason and doesn't do it's effects unless you're an awkward distance from an enemy that isn't easily achievable past initial engagement. Cutting Dive's DoT is so huge that it's a requirement to use regardless of how dumb the proc condition is.

If I'm being honest i think that this spammable needs an entire rework so it actually has something to do with the class other than looking like a cliff racer.

LeHarrt91 · November 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aelsioln wrote: »

I've only skimmed pages 37 and 38 so far (too tired, will read more after sleep) and I just wanted to point out that there are some of us wardens that like to keep a distance out there whether using a staff or bow. I actually made my warden specifically because I wanted a completely ranged character and the warden abilities seemed to fit that along with looking amazing.

I know that the ranged condition on Dive and its morphs isn't great for players that want to play right up in the enemy's face but instead of swapping that around, punishing range while rewarding up close, why not just remove any range condition? Could do a flat damage buff to the magicka morph and let the stamina morph keep the bleed?

With the bear... I have a love/hate relationship with it. Making the bear a temporary summon, like the necromancer's summons, would be interesting. Just please don't include a buff where you have to stand next to it like I saw suggested... That'd again punish the ranged players.

Magicka wardens definitely need more frost. I agree with that for sure.

37 and 38 are really the only recent pages. Everything else was from more than a year ago.

Adressing what you said about dive, it's not that we want to play in melee range necessarily. It's that that is literally where fights happen most commonly since enemies always close the gap in pvp unless they're also ranged and a lot of stam players in pvp are melee as well. Removing the requirement works i suppose but at the same time there are other fundamental problems with the spammable. It has nothing mechanically to do with the class at all. It has no combo potential with shalks, it's slow as hell in melee range for no reason and doesn't do it's effects unless you're an awkward distance from an enemy that isn't easily achievable past initial engagement. Cutting Dive's DoT is so huge that it's a requirement to use regardless of how dumb the proc condition is.

If I'm being honest i think that this spammable needs an entire rework so it actually has something to do with the class other than looking like a cliff racer.

Yeah parsing with Dive feels so slow after using Frost Reach for so long XD

Jyrus_JD · November 2021

Idc about anything in animal companions. Can we just buff Arctic blast. increase the range of it or buff the damage or even how long it lasts? 4 seconds is way to short

ESO_Nightingale · November 2021

Jyrus_JD wrote: »

Idc about anything in animal companions. Can we just buff Arctic blast. increase the range of it or buff the damage or even how long it lasts? 4 seconds is way to short

increasing the range of it would definitely make it even more oppressive to fight against, increasing the duration is likely the best way to go at least as far as trying to make it viable for pve. it'd likely need double the duration in order to even be considered at all. but the healing and the stun hold it back in their current state. for pvp and pve removing the healing entirely from the morph (so a select green balance skill can be buffed), and making the stun on a new component that turns it from a defensive based annoyance, into an offensive controllable stun would be the best way to go in addition to doubling the duration.

Raideen · November 2021

I want spammable ice wraiths instead of cliff racers when using frost staff, damage converts from magic to frost.
Same thing with shalks. With ice staff equipped make them do frost damage and instead of shalks maybe have a line of ice crystals that shoot up from the ground.
Fetcher Flies could be snowflakes for all care, lol.
Falcons Swiftness could make you skate on a patch of ice on the ground, like the silver surver, lol (I dunna about this one, I just want some ice theme)
The Netch could be a ball or shard of ice that beams magicka into you.

I'd love to see new abilities as you suggested, but man right now I'd go for what we have, but given ice themed options.

WTB more ice love in game

ESO_Nightingale · November 2021

Raideen wrote: »

I want spammable ice wraiths instead of cliff racers when using frost staff, damage converts from magic to frost.
Same thing with shalks. With ice staff equipped make them do frost damage and instead of shalks maybe have a line of ice crystals that shoot up from the ground.
Fetcher Flies could be snowflakes for all care, lol.
Falcons Swiftness could make you skate on a patch of ice on the ground, like the silver surver, lol (I dunna about this one, I just want some ice theme)
The Netch could be a ball or shard of ice that beams magicka into you.

I'd love to see new abilities as you suggested, but man right now I'd go for what we have, but given ice themed options.

WTB more ice love in game

just changing the damage types would go a long way, but scr really does need an entire rework, in it's current state it has nothing to do with our class. deep fissure could use another small effect. i think a short 3 second and small DoT would be interesting as well, allowing us to keep our 3 second rotation. but it also should just deal frost damage as a start. allows it to work with more frost based sets to help them out, and also to apply chilled more in aoe. frost bear would kinda hurt the viability of northern storm and other frost ultimates more than they're already hurt which sucks, but that's mainly because bear is just such high dps in the first place.

LeHarrt91 · December 2021

Raideen wrote: »

I want spammable ice wraiths instead of cliff racers when using frost staff, damage converts from magic to frost.
Same thing with shalks. With ice staff equipped make them do frost damage and instead of shalks maybe have a line of ice crystals that shoot up from the ground.
Fetcher Flies could be snowflakes for all care, lol.
Falcons Swiftness could make you skate on a patch of ice on the ground, like the silver surver, lol (I dunna about this one, I just want some ice theme)
The Netch could be a ball or shard of ice that beams magicka into you.

I'd love to see new abilities as you suggested, but man right now I'd go for what we have, but given ice themed options.

WTB more ice love in game

Yeah the current Animal Companions are all based on a specific Zone, they should be updated or add skins.

francesinhalover · December 2021

Stamina warden - Cutting Dive skill
I really wish it was better for pve dps, but you need to set the enemy off balance, something that just doesn't happen with bosses. plus the range need.

It would be lovely if the ability had something that can affect bosses like " if the ability is used 3 times in a row from less than 7 meters the 4th time ignores enemy's resistance or a % of it.

So dps players that use the ability 8 times could do some good damage perhapes?

Give bear more survival or at least resistance to pve dmg.
Same should happen to sorce pets.

Stx · December 2021

I love the warden class as it is. But I wish we had a choice for the type of animals summoned by the spells. Cliff racers and shalks don't make sense for any zone other than morrowind. And bears don't make sense for half the zones in the game. Summoning all of them together makes even less sense.

ESO_Nightingale · December 2021

Stx wrote: »

I love the warden class as it is. But I wish we had a choice for the type of animals summoned by the spells. Cliff racers and shalks don't make sense for any zone other than morrowind. And bears don't make sense for half the zones in the game. Summoning all of them together makes even less sense.

It feels like free money for them on the crown store. but there has to be some factor holding them back.

ESO_Nightingale · December 2021

francesinhalover wrote: »

Stamina warden - Cutting Dive skill
I really wish it was better for pve dps, but you need to set the enemy off balance, something that just doesn't happen with bosses. plus the range need.

It would be lovely if the ability had something that can affect bosses like " if the ability is used 3 times in a row from less than 7 meters the 4th time ignores enemy's resistance or a % of it.

So dps players that use the ability 8 times could do some good damage perhapes?

Give bear more survival or at least resistance to pve dmg.
Same should happen to sorce pets.

cutting dive's condition is terrible, just like the rest of the skill. the reason it performs incredibly well in pve is because it's bleed stacks are hugely overtuned.

Muskrap · December 2021

I was actually going to write a far longer statement about this but its not going to do any use while half of the warden community is still reeing about cryomancer ***

I want magicka warden to work without changing its identity to that of a frost mage

1) invasive amounts of skills for barspace. Necessary skills for a magicka warden rapid regen, leeching vines, ice fortress, blue betty, artic blast, spammable, bird of prey/race against time, deep fissure, inner light if you arent using malacath, and a stun.

The reason magicka warden was able to work before was because it had multi purpose skills that would assist in the lack of others. IE old living trellis acting as a burst heal/hot, Deep fissure being burst and a stun ability, Shock clench acting as a spammable and a stun.

Artic blast is simply not as reliable as a multi purpose skill so one cannot reasonable only rely upon that as their stun

2) The class needs a real burst heal based off of offensive stats.

Artic Blast scaling off of just max hp has put the magicka warden in an extremely awkward position of not being able to commit to one stat to work off of. The negative effects of this being seeing 50k hp magdens in 2 proc sets and malacath to make up for the fact that the class really cant do damage with that setup without the best and abusable proc sets of the patch. Leaving magicka warden at the mercy of being able to perform with only the most broken setups.

Looking at the ability i would like to have the option for it to scale with the higher of the two stats between max HP and Max Magicka. Specifically instead of max weapon and spell damage because it is far more difficult for Stamina Warden to get a higher maximum magicka pool than a maximum spell damage pool with how the sets are hybridized now

3) If screaming cliff racer is supposed to be treated as the Magden's ranged stun option, please make it synergize better with another ability.

Screaming cliff racer only applying off balance to people beyond 7m makes it unreasonable difficult to be able to stun certain classes. on top of not having an ability proc the stun under certain conditions. Like cliff racer applying off balance and Deep fissure stunning targets whom are off balanced.

PrinceShroob · December 2021

I'd like to see Winter's Revenge brought down to 10 seconds with a cost decrease to match so that it matches Unstable Wall, Mystic Orb, and Fetcher Infection in duration.

Right now you either clip it short while still paying the full cost if you use Unstable Wall, or lose uptime if you use Blockade. Unlike Nightblades with Twisting Path, Scorch hamstrings using Winter's Revenge dynamically, so it'd be nice to be able to just lay your backbar AoEs without feeling like you're paying for more than you get.

ESO_Nightingale · December 2021

PrinceShroob wrote: »

I'd like to see Winter's Revenge brought down to 10 seconds with a cost decrease to match so that it matches Unstable Wall, Mystic Orb, and Fetcher Infection in duration.

Right now you either clip it short while still paying the full cost if you use Unstable Wall, or lose uptime if you use Blockade. Unlike Nightblades with Twisting Path, Scorch hamstrings using Winter's Revenge dynamically, so it'd be nice to be able to just lay your backbar AoEs without feeling like you're paying for more than you get.

Wr is cheaper than all of those things.