Easiest DPS Class (PvE)

WrathOfInnos · January 2020

zvavi wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Also use Ghastly Eyebowl food for sustain, that will let you run 3X Spell Damage enchants on jewelry.

So much cringe. Don't do that. No self-respecting raid leader is going to accept an inflated parse using cheese food. Have the integrity to test your build exactly as you'll run it in a dungeon or trial. Artificially inflated parses do not make one a good player.

Lol, I am a self-respecting raid leader, Children of Magnus core in Nightfighters on PC/NA. If someone sends me a parse where they are spamming heavy attacks because they are trying to sustain bistat health food on a raid dummy I am going to laugh and ask them to redo it. In raid we have Hollowfang, Worm, Symphony of Blades, and far more synergies than just Orbs. Solo sustain is unreasonably bad this patch, and optimizing around that makes for a poor trial build.

I already told him but he just ignored it :shrug: dont forget double master resto too

Ah true, we’ve got those too, and some great healers to use them.

I wish they would give dk class synergy that can be procced by everyone, i will finally be able to seriously heal in trials then.

I’ve been seeing some interesting theorycraft about DK healers. Engulfing (with full 10% magnitude) and Ember as two long-duration Z’en’s DoTs, as well as great Burning uptime for a 3rd. Possibly also using Stone Giant for the Stagger debuff, which would drain Stamina enough for easy Martial Knowledge procs. Basically it can handle the debuff job of a tank, healer and MagDK all in one. I haven’t actually seen it done though.

zvavi · January 2020

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Also use Ghastly Eyebowl food for sustain, that will let you run 3X Spell Damage enchants on jewelry.

So much cringe. Don't do that. No self-respecting raid leader is going to accept an inflated parse using cheese food. Have the integrity to test your build exactly as you'll run it in a dungeon or trial. Artificially inflated parses do not make one a good player.

Lol, I am a self-respecting raid leader, Children of Magnus core in Nightfighters on PC/NA. If someone sends me a parse where they are spamming heavy attacks because they are trying to sustain bistat health food on a raid dummy I am going to laugh and ask them to redo it. In raid we have Hollowfang, Worm, Symphony of Blades, and far more synergies than just Orbs. Solo sustain is unreasonably bad this patch, and optimizing around that makes for a poor trial build.

I already told him but he just ignored it :shrug: dont forget double master resto too

Ah true, we’ve got those too, and some great healers to use them.

I wish they would give dk class synergy that can be procced by everyone, i will finally be able to seriously heal in trials then.

I’ve been seeing some interesting theorycraft about DK healers. Engulfing (with full 10% magnitude) and Ember as two long-duration Z’en’s DoTs, as well as great Burning uptime for a 3rd. Possibly also using Stone Giant for the Stagger debuff, which would drain Stamina enough for easy Martial Knowledge procs. Basically it can handle the debuff job of a tank, healer and MagDK all in one. I haven’t actually seen it done though.

I actually have 10% engulfing ready build, thing is, the mag meta is full of mag dk. There are two options, either mag dk's already doing it, or it is full of stam dds xd

Edit: but thanks for the stagger idea, didnt think of it myself cause i am stupid hehe (the heal counter part sucks anyway)

JinMori · January 2020

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

If you think about it for more than a second, you would understand that the reason they do that is to standardize parses

cmaag42 wrote: »

Ignore this guy, parse food is used to standardize parses

LMAO, that's not how "standardizing" works. "Standardizing" refers to testing under the same external conditions (Ele Drain, Puncture, same buffs/debuffs), but it does NOT mean altering your actual build to a "standard" setup that you don't really run. Those parses are absolutely meaningless because those people running cheese food run a variety of different foods in real content. If 4 people run Ghastly on a parse, but those same 4 people run Bistat, Witchmothers, Clockwork, and Arteum (oops, did I spill the beans?) in content, each of them is affected differently by swapping to a fake food. That is the precise OPPOSITE of "standardization". Running fake food does nothing but artificially boost numbers for people without adequate recovery to sustain a real rotation in content. All those deceptively padded "1 HUNDRED MILLION K!" parses on Youtube are full of crap.

Lol.

This is what your answer deserves, because you demonstrate that you do not understand how it works.

Runefang · January 2020

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

That’s nonsense. People take their parsing builds into real trials all the time with the only thing that changes is the food.

What exactly does running content have to do with whether or not their test results are inflated? I never said that inflating your numbers on a dummy renders the build useless and incapable of completing content. What I'm saying is that inflated numbers are inaccurate measurements. Two guys might both hit 80k each on cheese food (which eases sustain pressure), but one continues hitting 78k on Witchmother's while the other drops to 60k on bistat in the trial because he's heavy attacking half the time. That dummy already gives you shards, so if you can't sustain on your real food you need more recovery. Good raid leaders shouldn't accept all the cheesy crap people do on parses to pretend they're DPS heroes.

Ok find me a more accurate measurement then because so far this is it. Real fights have other ways of improving sustain (master resto, hollowfang, breaks in combat, consuming soul trap) and rarely do they involve non-stop combat for the 4-6 minutes the 21m dummy does. Even the mini-trials that are actually long running fights like vCR and vAS have enough ways of providing sustain that make it easier than the dummy.

To-date I haven't have met anybody who parses high on the dummy with "cheese food" who also didn't do well in a real fight unless they had trouble staying alive.

JinMori · January 2020

Runefang wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

That’s nonsense. People take their parsing builds into real trials all the time with the only thing that changes is the food.

What exactly does running content have to do with whether or not their test results are inflated? I never said that inflating your numbers on a dummy renders the build useless and incapable of completing content. What I'm saying is that inflated numbers are inaccurate measurements. Two guys might both hit 80k each on cheese food (which eases sustain pressure), but one continues hitting 78k on Witchmother's while the other drops to 60k on bistat in the trial because he's heavy attacking half the time. That dummy already gives you shards, so if you can't sustain on your real food you need more recovery. Good raid leaders shouldn't accept all the cheesy crap people do on parses to pretend they're DPS heroes.

Ok find me a more accurate measurement then because so far this is it. Real fights have other ways of improving sustain (master resto, hollowfang, breaks in combat, consuming soul trap) and rarely do they involve non-stop combat for the 4-6 minutes the 21m dummy does. Even the mini-trials that are actually long running fights like vCR and vAS have enough ways of providing sustain that make it easier than the dummy.

To-date I haven't have met anybody who parses high on the dummy with "cheese food" who also didn't do well in a real fight unless they had trouble staying alive.

I don't know why people have this thing that they think dps does not matter at all to show skills, like if someone knows how to do 80k dps, they most probably know how to play in a dungeon or trial, and if they don't they will learn it way faster.

Schared · January 2020

[snip]

Parsefood obviously simulates sustain-fixes and extra synergies that you would usualy have in a raidgroup but cannot simulate by yourself.

But you mustnt concern yourself with that - you seem like the type of person that calls weaving and exploit and complains about speedrunning while struggeling to clear craglorn trials.

[edited to remove quoted content]

Gnortranermara · January 2020

Schared wrote: »

Parsefood obviously simulates sustain-fixes and extra synergies that you would usualy have in a raidgroup but cannot simulate by yourself.

No, it obviously doesn't. That's just a lie people bad at math and logic tell themselves. Fortunately, it doesn't matter how many wrong people agree to be wrong together. Facts aren't changed by delusional popular opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86MO-JWTNjo

Like it or not, parse cheese food changes results unequally for different users, making it the opposite of "standardizing".

JinMori · January 2020

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Schared wrote: »

Parsefood obviously simulates sustain-fixes and extra synergies that you would usualy have in a raidgroup but cannot simulate by yourself.

No, it obviously doesn't. That's just a lie people bad at math and logic tell themselves. Fortunately, it doesn't matter how many wrong people agree to be wrong together. Facts aren't changed by delusional popular opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86MO-JWTNjo

Like it or not, parse cheese food changes results unequally for different users, making it the opposite of "standardizing".

You should take the example you made and apply it to yourself, parse food absolutely does simulate sustain in the higher end of the spectrum in a trial, and it doesn't matter what you think.

Kombinator · January 2020

I mainly play tank so don't have much idea for big damage. But for easy overworld class i would go with stamina Templar with the base resto heal put somewhere. You damage with stamina, and when required use magicka to heal yourself.

NeillMcAttack · January 2020

jkloza wrote: »

See above for a parse I just did.

Thanks -

Parsing 30 k on the 3mil is good enough for all vet game content. On that parse you could do with getting your major Crit buff (can’t remember what it is called for mag) , and also your minor force to 100%, these should definitely be higher. Use potions for sorcery and Crit. Also you may want a more optimal CP distribution I would suggest “constellations” add-on. You can upload a parse and it will tell you a more optimal distribution for your CP’s based on that parse.
Anyway, you are fine. Stay confident and keep practicing.

JinMori · January 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

jkloza wrote: »

See above for a parse I just did.

Thanks -

Parsing 30 k on the 3mil is good enough for all vet game content. On that parse you could do with getting your major Crit buff (can’t remember what it is called for mag) , and also your minor force to 100%, these should definitely be higher. Use potions for sorcery and Crit. Also you may want a more optimal CP distribution I would suggest “constellations” add-on. You can upload a parse and it will tell you a more optimal distribution for your CP’s based on that parse.
Anyway, you are fine. Stay confident and keep practicing.

Let's get the record straight, this 30k dps thing has been around for a very long time, and while it may have been true in the past that is not the case anymore.

Sure if you do absolutely perfect mechanics 30k may be enough, but chances are that if you can do mechanics perfectly your damage will be much higher than that.

30k dps is enough for base game vet content, and not enough for vet hm of base game trials.

For a normal dummy it's decent though, and should translate to about 50 k on trail dummy.

Danksta · January 2020

Just roll a stamplar and spam jabs while weaving light attacks on your way to 30k

[snip]

Running parse food more accurately represents your sustain in a trial because of all the sustain tools you are not getting from a dummy as long as your support actually.. you know, support the group. That's why it is standard to run parse food.

[edited to remove quoted content]

Taemiru · January 2020

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SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

What exactly does running content have to do with whether or not their test results are inflated? I never said that inflating your numbers on a dummy renders the build useless and incapable of completing content. What I'm saying is that inflated numbers are inaccurate measurements. Two guys might both hit 80k each on cheese food (which eases sustain pressure), but one continues hitting 78k on Witchmother's while the other drops to 60k on bistat in the trial because he's heavy attacking half the time. That dummy already gives you shards, so if you can't sustain on your real food you need more recovery. Good raid leaders shouldn't accept all the cheesy crap people do on parses to pretend they're DPS heroes.

Congratz, you just said that majority of guild leaders in this game are bad *clap clap*

But actually i kind of feel bad for you running with healers that don't wear any support sets and cast one synergy once every 20 sec

SidraWillowsky · January 2020

What's your Magden bar setup/rotation? IMO it's the easiest setup that balances high DPS with a fairly easy rotation and insane survivability. Stamplar is the easiest DPS class for sure, but you lack the survivability and mobility that Magdens provide. We'll be even stronger in U25 (I tested in the PTS and am back to my Scalebreaker DPS numbers), so things are getting even better for us.

That said- your setup will not provide the highest DPS possible. I highly recommend switching to Iceheart from Skoria- it seems counterintuitive, but Iceheart will give you higher DPS AND more survivability than Skoria. I’m also not a huge fan of BSW on my Magden, and Necro is great for increasing your mag, but it also won’t give you optimized DPS. I’ve cleared 50k on a 6 mil dummy, and with your setup I’m not sure I’d be able to clear 40k. I’d imagine that your critical damage is quite low, which is going to hurt your DPS a lot.

My highest parses on the 6 mil are set up thusly:

Body: Perfected False God’s, all Divines with mag enchants

Monster: Zaan, Divines with mag enchants… I can’t remember the weights. I think I have one medium and one heavy, maybe?

Weapons/jewels: Mother’s Sorrow front bar, precise with flame enchant. Mother’s Sorrow jewels, Bloodthirsty with spell damage enchants

Shadow mundus

Back bar: vMA inferno, infused with weapon power enchant

Front bar: Fissure, Screaming Cliff Racer/Force Pulse, Fetcher Infection, Degeneration, Bird of Prey, bear ulti

Back bar: Unstable Wall, Winter’s Revenge, netch, Barbed Trap, Bird of Prey, bear ulti

Rotation (with LAs between skills and before and after bar swaps):
Hit a Spell Power potion then wait 20 seconds. Activate netch then
Trap -> wall -> swap
Fissure -> swap -> winter’s revenge -> swap -> fetcher
Fissure-> degen -> spammable -> fissure -> swap
Repeat.

Basically you want to keep up wall/winter’s revenge/fetcher/trap, casting Fissure after every two or three abilities. Degen can be an afterthought (slotted mostly to get the Mages Guild passives) and if you have nothing else to do, use your spammable.

thadjarvis · January 2020

@SidewalkChalk5

I used to think parse food would alter my parse negatively. However, after switching to it and practicing with parse food my DPS in content (not just dummy) went up significantly.

It came down to dialing in a better rotation cost. With normal food I was using too cheap of a rotation and in trials I was running with a full mag bar most of the time. Felt cozy but a lot was left on the table as in a trial, Hollowfang and Master resto would keep me topped off.

If using Arteum, Dubious, Clockwork, or Witchmothers most will significantly benefit from dialing in trial rotations with parse food.

On Stams, we can modulate sustain if synergies or support set sustain aren't high enough to make up for the Arteum/Lava delta in content through bashing less.

Yes if you use max stat food (no recovery) that won't work as well. You could try dubious, witchmothers, or a lower level equivalent of Lava/Ghastly to simulate trial sustain. Personally, I find on my two Bretons Clockwork + more expensive rotation yields better results than Max stat + cheaper rotation.

Regarding parses for progression, besides the above reasons it's frankly just much easier to have no rules parsing. Figuring them out, checking adherence, and discussing what they should be can be a chore. Yes a Lava build that has attributes in health would have lower numbers, but that's not difficult to account for as one-offs.

Almakor · November 2021

Aaaaahhhhggg, I was going to ask the same question as this guy but it all sounds complicated! It would be so much simpler if you could use transmutation stones to merge sets.

ZOS_Ragnar · November 2021

This thread only recently resurfaced and since its creation, in January 2020, the game has undergone multiple changes to the classes. To avoid any confusion with out-of-date information we have decided to close this thread.
If you wish to further discuss this topic feel free to create a new thread.