DK Leap needs to be fixed

Hexys · May 2021

I understand that you want this skill to be impactful for those who enjoy playing DK in PvP. But in it's current state it can't stay any longer. It's the #1 reason of death in Cyrodiil. Not because of it's damage or stun, but by desync just after impact and the snare.

I don't know how the coding works, I would say to make it work like ambush does in your code.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df0noUaDPRU

In this video you can see how the first leap makes me slide and lagg out unable to properly move my character for a few second. Then I dodge roll which gives immunity to snares, I still get snared by 2 leaps at the same time, basically can't move at all, while being snare/stun immune.

Please Zenimax, this is ruining so much of the current gameplay in Cyrodiil. Make it in work in update 30.

axi · May 2021

Unavoidable snare was horrible balance decision. I get that through making this snare unavoidable and unpurgable ZoS wanted for leap to always hit but the final result is simply horrible and makes gameplay extremly cluncky. I was never a fan of Wrobel but when Wheeler took over from PvP perspective things got even worse which is funny considering that Wheeler's original job was PvP lead designer.

xylena_lazarow · May 2021

Yall better not get another ult ruined by heinous cast times.

Fawn4287 · May 2021

The ult itself is fine in terms of utility and damage balance, although the weird micro snare that gapclosers have is beyond annoying, if anything the travel time they carry should be incorporated into the cast and the and the actual gapclose should be instant to stop the need for the annoying and weird snare. However knowing how everything else in this game goes skill changes usually results in things being more bugged and working worse so it’s probably one of those things better left untouched at this point.

ResidentContrarian · May 2021

It's strange you are blaming leap desync when you should have already been dead from those leaps in the first place. The actual person that was "lagging" and "desynced" was you. If leap worked properly you would have been dead instantly or under CC anyway.

That said, we need to also do something about the desync on artic blast's stun, Streak, Ball of Lightning delayed "ball" bugging targeting, etc. as well. Why stop at leap?

Razorruk · May 2021

You are a warden, complaining about pvp balance? Ok

biminirwb17_ESO · May 2021

Looking at it in slo mo you ran out of stam, were ded while still moving, the major breach from stamdk halitosis didn't help either. But it worked to kill a 37k heavy stam warden so all is well.

Ishtharo · May 2021

Honestly, my only issue with Dragon Leap is the animation lock. When it kicks you in the air, and you break the stun, you still cant do anything until your feet touch the ground.

That's what gets me killed.

divnyi · May 2021

Leap indeed has this weird root before impact. You can observe this my running in ellusive mist (that can't be rooted) vs leap.

Nerf XXX because I desync is just stupid lol. Nerf desyncs.

Zabagad · May 2021

divnyi wrote: »

Nerf XXX because I desync is just stupid lol. Nerf desyncs.

Where did you read a nerf request?

Razorruk wrote: »

You are a warden, complaining about pvp balance? Ok

Even harder to read something about a "balance complain".

But I guess there is not much they can fix aside from desync and lag - which they obv. are unable to fix.

divnyi · May 2021

I believe the whole point of snare is a crutch to ensure that ultimate lands.

Given the video footage, it would actually make less sense if you could dodge out from 4 players spamming ulti on you specifically.

relentless_turnip · May 2021

Overload desyncs you too and snipe.... There is a long list of skills that aren't working as intended.

WoppaBoem · May 2021

you got hit by 3 leaps, so 3 guys drop their ults on your head at the same time, you have to die no exception.

If this clip is you best example you case is not strong.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2021

WoppaBoem wrote: »

you got hit by 3 leaps, so 3 guys drop their ults on your head at the same time, you have to die no exception.

If this clip is you best example you case is not strong.

3 NB single target melee Incaps = 3 dodge and 0 dmg...

Idk about you, but if an "assasin" single target ulti can be avoided so easily, then AOE (that does dmg to more than one player) should also have a lot of counter-play. In the past it ussed to have a longer flight/travel time that was a form of counter-play, so players could react to it and if their reaction was fast enough they could move away.

Also, is it just me or leap seems to be hitting almost instantly, sooner than DK actually "lands" ?

Hexys · May 2021

Just some feedback to some of the comments.

- This is not 'nerf a leap thread', it is fix leap thread. DK's need this ultimate in their class kit to be competitive. I don't want this ultimate nerfed, just work better on the receiving side.
- Don't tell me I play a P2W class, I play all classes and have a total playtime of over 750 days. I could have made a compilation video getting desync/snared by leap when being immune playing all classes. This video just shows it perfectly within 20 seconds.
- Leap isn't the only problem in the game at the moment. But it is the most impactful one playing outnumbered.

Here are some other issues that also impact the game in a negative way, should also be fixed but are less impactful:
- Overload health desync
- Jab spam also causes desync and feeling of abilities being queued up
- AoE attacks on Shadowy Disguise that build up health desync over time
- Warden sleet + arctic also feels off regarding ability responsiveness and break free

Please, when you reply or have anything to add, be constructive.

kalunte · May 2021

nothing constructive can be done considering leap.

If you ask for it to be put in line with other ult in any terms, either damage, range, unavoidable 90%snare, aoe, on target cast instead of ground targeted or even the ridiculous cost of the thing...

Any way you look at it says that it is heavily overloaded but still. good luck with being constructive with that

ManDraKE · May 2021

A 1k dmg leap is more dangerous than a 10k damage incap. That is how broken it is

The forced snare during travel time, the animation, the character lock during dodgeroll, there is so many broken things with this ultimate. Damage wise is fine, i dont mind the ultimate hitting hard.

xylena_lazarow · May 2021

Hexys wrote: »

Leap isn't the only problem in the game at the moment. But it is the most impactful one playing outnumbered... Please, when you reply or have anything to add, be constructive.

Leap is easily blocked, and nerfing it wouldn't address those other desync issues you mentioned. All it would do is make DK the strictly blandest class in PvP, we both would still be here infuriated by something like eating four simultaneous Overloads or Snipes from the same guy while trying to evade a zerg. FWIW pretty sure that forced snare was actually added to address position desync where you could very easily roll or move out of the Leap landing AoE.

Urzigurumash · May 2021

Leap has been both buffed and nerfed in this regard within the last 2 years. If you played DK much you would know the change at Harrowstorm was a substantial nerf.

Elsweyr: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 6.5 meters. It also now applies a more aggressive snare to targets it is cast on, to prevent them from being able to outrun the AoE damage when it lands.

Harrowstorm: This Ultimate will now properly animate its leap on targets, regardless of its range, resulting in more overall reaction time for those on the receiving end of being DK dunked.

Hexys · May 2021

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

Leap isn't the only problem in the game at the moment. But it is the most impactful one playing outnumbered... Please, when you reply or have anything to add, be constructive.

Leap is easily blocked, and nerfing it wouldn't address those other desync issues you mentioned. All it would do is make DK the strictly blandest class in PvP, we both would still be here infuriated by something like eating four simultaneous Overloads or Snipes from the same guy while trying to evade a zerg. FWIW pretty sure that forced snare was actually added to address position desync where you could very easily roll or move out of the Leap landing AoE.

It's not about counter-play and also not about 'ruining your class'. The ultimate bypasses immune mechanics and is clunky on the receiving end. I don't want a nerf, I want a solution for both sides. DK needs this ultimate to be competitive.

I mentioned ambush in my main post, but there is one gapcloser with a stun that works just fine, which is toppling charge. I don't think people really care about the animation of leap, if it could function like toppling charge it would still be impactful but not desync the receiving opponent.

xylena_lazarow · May 2021

Hexys wrote: »

there is one gapcloser with a stun that works just fine, which is toppling charge. I don't think people really care about the animation of leap, if it could function like toppling charge it would still be impactful but not desync the receiving opponent.

Okay this is reasonable. I agree all gap closers should function the same.

Tessitura · May 2021

I think this is not a problem with the ult but the slow server calculations. We suffer from this in all kinds of things not just the DK Ult. Yes it's a powerful ult, so is Blood Scion, Frozen Colossus. Sleet Storm, Secluded Grove, Incap strike, Storm Atronach, Radial sweep, so on, and so on... If you are a unkillable monster and something kills you, then good. I think you just hate it cause it fills bad with the delay. it's harder to accept death in a game when it feels like you were cheated, even if you were not cheated the fact that it feels that way sucks. It's been a problem this game has always suffered from.

Hexys · May 2021

Tessitura wrote: »

I think this is not a problem with the ult but the slow server calculations. We suffer from this in all kinds of things not just the DK Ult. Yes it's a powerful ult, so is Blood Scion, Frozen Colossus. Sleet Storm, Secluded Grove, Incap strike, Storm Atronach, Radial sweep, so on, and so on... If you are a unkillable monster and something kills you, then good. I think you just hate it cause it fills bad with the delay. it's harder to accept death in a game when it feels like you were cheated, even if you were not cheated the fact that it feels that way sucks. It's been a problem this game has always suffered from.

100% agree that almost all issues are related to server calculations. But that only got worse over time when a game should improve instead, it didn't even stay the same.

So no hopes for that anymore.

Bashev · May 2021

That is the Wrobel's legacy

Urzigurumash · May 2021

@Hexys

Roll a DK and try it out. The clunkiness/delay isn't just on the receiving end. If you see my post above, they added 2 forms of "delay" to this skill over the last 2 years. It now essentially has a cast time, though not quite as severe as Dawnbreaker or Onslaught.

You know we need this skill to be competitive for us to be balanced, yet even outside of groups you can find high ranking DKs running Dawny or Meteor these days, because of the delay added at Harrowstorm, combined with the general positional desync issues with gapclosers that troubles Streak, Chains, etc.

INe_Saninus · May 2021

(Sigh) How do I approach this...

I can imagine Leap being frustrating from the other end...
I don't really have a reference, because on Xbox NA there really aren't any DKs.
There's is me and like... 3 others guys.
Seriously. I get leaped maybe 3 times a night.

I see mostly Stamden, Necros, Magsorcs, Stamblades, and Templars. In that order.

I understand that your issue isn't with the damage and you do not want anything nerfed, just the desync/snare...

...but bro! DK barely hanging on by a thread as is! We're already at a disadvantage in almost every single match up we run into.
Leap and Fossilize. That's all we got! That's it!

I don't want ZOS messing with anything until we receive significant buffs. They break things when they try to fix them. They destroy abilities when the "fix" them.

Keep us out your mouth until we receive some buffs. (Said in jest, but seriously)

jrgray93 · May 2021

I hate getting hit with it as much as the next guy but the real issue I see is how weird and unresponsive character location and death sync with the client. It's not uncommon for you to see your health and resources hit zero and you still move a bit before the game decides you're dead. I also find any time I use a knockback, the player I hit teleports between locations. If I don't accurately determine where they land, I can whiff a crescent sweep or something.

Dk leap wrecks and I hate it but I'm just glad the class has something going for it. Wardens on the other hand can shut up. Especially stamens though. 😂