Gold sinks

reignfyre · April 2014

Personally gold sinks are more hassle than they're worth. Like you said, gold sinks are a burden. I've seen my fair share of gold sinks collapse the counter they're resting in. They do clean up nice with a little jewelry cleaner but stainless steel or porcelain sinks are the way to go, IMO.

Opioid · April 2014

While I don't have any major issues with gold sinks since they do serve the purpose of removing currency from the game thereby acting somewhat as a control on inflation, I do feel that excessive gold sinks are something that actually perpetuates gold sellers.
When people feel like something is too difficult to attain, they are far more likely to seek out gold sellers and spend some cash on buying a bunch of gold to save themselves the work of making the gold by normal means.

Harming · April 2014

I actually find it to be the opposite at end game. Once you have all your bag / bank slots. Got both the fast and pack horse. There's really nothing to spend your gold on anymore except repairs which is cheap compared to the amount of $ you make. I'm sitting at 500k and growing with nothing to do with it now. We definetly need somthing to spend gold on endgame.
~Harming

necronomniconb14_ESO · April 2014

The main issue is the lack of a more generally accessible auction/sales system. something that reaches more than 100 to a few hundred people at a time in tiny groups (guilds) likely not looking for, already having, and just plain not buying what you're selling or offering what You're looking for. That forces you to either deconstruct (not a bad idea if you're not using it for the chance of upgrade mats with the colored gear on lower level greens and blues) or to hop in the Tardis and take a trip back to Everquest so that you stand in a hub for a few hours straight and spam chat while a bunch snotty kids knowingly mute you in disgust or mistake and report you as a gold seller. That's when you're not vendoring the stuff to a traveling merchant (praise Allah) while on the go since you already wayshrined back to town 3 times in about the last 50 minutes and don't feel like doing it again so soon. getting far less than you could have gotten with an actual auctions/sales system put into place. increased cost of gold sinks, with decreased income... brilliant.

rtx · April 2014

Well, I almost paid 800 fee when I've tried to sell someone 4 buckets of rawhide for 1600. I've just sent him mats and he sent me gold.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO · April 2014

I do not mind fees at AC and COD. It is fee for being lazy. I really hope that they would bring in player shops.

LadyInTheWater · April 2014

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

I do not mind fees at AC and COD. It is fee for being lazy.

This ^

I really hope that they would bring in player shops.

Now, THAT would be fun. It's great, the tiny little gems of ideas that I see from time to time on these threads. The only downsides to that would be the constant player spam of "come see my shop" that you'd see over and over in chat. And perhaps giving the goldfarmers an easier tool to hawk their bot-farmed wares.

Star Wars Galaxies had this interesting little feature where you could search for player-made shops. Players could post their adverts on this thing, and the map would show you where their shop was. It didn't eliminate the "come see my shop" spam. But it certainly mitigated a lot of it.

Tetujin · April 2014

That would be pretty cool for sure.

hauke · April 2014

maniacal1 wrote: »

I'm actually quite surprised that nobody has mentioned the astronomical cost of buying a mount, and the day-one ability to purchase it in a cash shop for real money.

the cost of the 1st mount isn t astronomical, and if you level your 1st toon you can transfer gold to your 2nd toon so the 2nd toon gets a mount from the start.

mount costs less then later bankslots, so its realy usefull to give mounts to your later toons, and the 2nd backpack upgrade

basicly for 1st toon walking is very usefull to experience the gameplay of recource gathering and finding lorebooks, not to miss those random treasure chests in hiden corners youd never ride into
on a horse you just ride past all the interesting stuff on the ground

later on when you know what to look for you can go riding

makes me think..... do all those white horse riders missed all that stuff ?

Duvaineth · April 2014

I find the guild stores a waste of time due to not being able to type in the specific item I am looking for so I can see prices and sell my items according to others. So when I cant sell anything in zone I just vendor. Bag n bank space is not cheap to upgrade and when maxing out is still not enough. This game takes alot of time in the inventory. They should fix that.

Amphess · April 2014

It's okay to have a 1:1 income-outcome, but it's just ridiculus when my items wear off so heavily by just using them, without taking damage. But even this is okay to me...
But if I play in correct way, I'll get punished because I'll nearly never find adv. stylebooks, because someone farms them all the time. To pay 80k+ for a stylebook is devasting for my goldpocket

So play on and pray for wonders.

Qoute:
For some days I'm hardly trying to gather an advanced stylebook - They may be found in houses, (Chests, Wardrobes, Nightstands) or sometimes in Dwemer-Ruins (Urns) - But ALL TIME and EVERYWHERE I search in those places, they've been cleared allready. It's nearly impossible to find any stylebooks at all now.
Okay, they're rare loot and shouldn't be found so easily - But it would be nice to make them a more random drop instead of these known places (above).
I even think Goldfarmers are harvesting those places like they do at low-level solodungeons or vampire/werewolfspawns.

There's made much inGame gold, so I even understand this, but it could be so easy to make some spawns and drops more random?!
My search for stylebooks has ended so far, because i don't see any chance to gather one (or have to pay 20-80k gold!!)

To establish economics on a chinafarmer-build basement seems pretty hard... So what's gold all about? Nothin' than repair ...repair...

iBigs · April 2014

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Star Wars Galaxies had this interesting little feature where you could search for player-made shops. Players could post their adverts on this thing, and the map would show you where their shop was. It didn't eliminate the "come see my shop" spam. But it certainly mitigated a lot of it.

I loved that part and the crafting in SWG.. I wonder why no MMO after that have copied their crafting system..

anton1nh · April 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Jirki88 wrote: »

So... If I'm reading this right... You like to play games because they make you micro-manage stuff like IRL? Because you... Think that is fun? You just love to pay bills, expenditures, etc? You get a warm fuzzy feeling from it?

You like it better when everything is handed to you on a silver platter? Emulating real life is part of the appeal in a game like this. Realism = immersion. If you want easy mode, just play a hacked single player game.

Not being sarcastic either. If that is fun to you, go do it. But difficulties like this are part of what makes the rewards rewarding in an MMO.

ok, agree and don't agree at the same time. i like the idea that this game is fairly realistic. (for as far as a fantasy world can do that). gold sinks do not need to be a part of that.
all gold sinks do is raise the what players expect their future gold needs to be. causing them to sell found items at a higher price. so it's bad for the economy.
because every thing is more expensive and the buyers will also deal whit the gold sinks they are drawn to goldsellers

so all gold sinks do is:

raise all market prices
attract gold sellers!

don't believe me? see how fast gold sellers set up shop in ESO!

Sneakyfool · April 2014

anton1nh wrote: »

so all gold sinks do is:
attract gold sellers!

don't believe me? see how fast gold sellers set up shop in ESO!

That's absolute tripe, gold selling is a legitimate business practice, they hit EVERY new mmo and hit them hard, trying to make as much profit before they get the ban hammer, or the economy hits a state where it becomes no longer viable to make money from it anymore.

If people weren't so bloody impatient and used these damn sites to get something they could quite easily get for free with a bit of effort then they wouldn't exist, simple as that.

Unfortunetly the few people who do spend real life money to buy gold or power leveling or w/e else these people offer ruin it for the rest of us, as they'll continue to stick around as long as there is money to be made.

This has nothing to do with arbitary gold sinks in the game however, it's a service aimed at and used by the lazy.

ArRashid · April 2014

Mail costs are absurdly high.
Store cuts are absurdly high.
Armor turns into dust absurdly fast.
Repairing is absurdly expensive.
....

Seriously, just because EXPLOITERS who got to VR content in the first week absolutely ruined the economy by selling vampirism/wwcurse and rare motifs for absurdly high amounts so that they now have more gold they can spend on anything, we are getting punished.

I agree this game needs some gold sinks, but I don't think making you repair you armor 5 times a day for 2k+ is the right thing to do. Especially when armor almost breaks faster by wear&tear than when you die wearing it.

As a non-enchanter (runes take up too much space and CANNOT reasonably be stored with clothing/ww/bs materials) I spend way too much gold on white glyphs anyway, so if I want to save a bit gold I have to craft myself new gear every damn day (well, 3 times a day actually, but as archer I don't make myself repair it regularly, and I don't really have enough mats (NO *** LEATHERS IN THIS GAME - I usually have 300+ ingots by the time I get 20 leathers) to craft myself gear more often... let alone leaving something for trade.

conclusion

we need a GOOD gold sink that won't make non-exploiters broke.

anton1nh · April 2014

Sneakyfool wrote: »

anton1nh wrote: »

so all gold sinks do is:
attract gold sellers!

don't believe me? see how fast gold sellers set up shop in ESO!

That's absolute tripe, gold selling is a legitimate business practice, they hit EVERY new mmo and hit them hard, trying to make as much profit before they get the ban hammer, or the economy hits a state where it becomes no longer viable to make money from it anymore.

If people weren't so bloody impatient and used these damn sites to get something they could quite easily get for free with a bit of effort then they wouldn't exist, simple as that.

Unfortunetly the few people who do spend real life money to buy gold or power leveling or w/e else these people offer ruin it for the rest of us, as they'll continue to stick around as long as there is money to be made.

This has nothing to do with arbitary gold sinks in the game however, it's a service aimed at and used by the lazy.

I anticipated this response. yes they hit a new MMO hard because people are willing to spend gold to get to max level fast. however if there are a lot of gold sinks in the game they will stay!

gold sinks artificially take gold out of the economy. players will as a result spend real-money to artificially fill their own gold stocks!

ArRashid wrote: »

Seriously, just because EXPLOITERS who got to VR content in the first week absolutely ruined the economy by selling vampirism/wwcurse and rare motifs for absurdly high amounts so that they now have more gold they can spend on anything, we are getting punished.

that's how economy works!

if you can supply a scarcely available product you can ask a high price! getting to VR10, vampirism, lycantropy allows you to that. soon lots of players are VR10 vampires and werewolves and what ever they have to sell is common place. with demand remaining the same while supply increases prices will drop.

in the end no-one forces you to buy and you can always wait for prices to drop. then you can buy it for a more reasonable price
i got all 10 playable race styles on my cafter and never paid more than 800 for a style book. however since i now have them all I've started selling and i haven't sold below 1200 yet. by now I've made a profit in trading style books.

ArRashid wrote: »

Mail costs are absurdly high.
Store cuts are absurdly high.
Armor turns into dust absurdly fast.
Repairing is absurdly expensive.
....

these along whit mount are gold sinks. gold sinks are bad!

the only real life situation that i can compare to a gold sink is the bursting of the U.S. (United States) housing bubble, which peaked in 2006, caused the values of securities tied to U.S. real estate pricing to plummet, damaging financial institutions globally.

IRL gold sink type situations cause/enhance world-wide financial crises! they are not good. they artificially take money/gold out of an economy, that's always bad!

You'd think buying a ridiculously expensive mount equals buying a Ferrari but it does not! because Ferrari buy materials to make it's cars, Ferrari pay its employees for their work. in the end Ferrari redistributes accumulated wealth back into the economy. buying a Ferrari is the same as buying a VR10 ledgendary crafted item from a crafter.
buying that mount is the same as buying overpriced real estate knowing that the housing bubble will collapse soon and your money will be gone.

when that bubbles like that burst everyone is out of money. therefore inflation rises and the economy grinds to a halt.
having constant gold sinks is even worse! you bust a bubble every hour! that more like taking a bath in a leak tub! you constantly need to add water from somewhere. ideally you dont need to add water at all ad it just ebbs and flows from one place in the tub to another on its own.

the only way to add water to that tub is by buying from gold sellers!!!! gold sinks are the absolute worst thing you can do to an MMO economy!