Are we still elligible for refund?

DanBlackfyre · March 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

For one, none is paying for a service yet.

I will not discuss the rest of your post but you are wrong here. We ARE paying for the service. We could not have gained access to the game yesterday if we had not paid. It might be early access but it is not a beta, nor an alpha. You don't have a free pass now, if there is a problem that affects gameplay so badly you fix it. Period.

You owe full customer support to each an every paying customer. It is not ''majority support'' it is customer support. If one person can't play your game for something you did it is your fault. And we have at least 50 people reporting the same issue... it might be a small percentage but as a developer you owe it to them to at least acknowledge the problem.

blackwolf7 · March 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

blackwolf7 wrote: »

Distrobomb wrote: »

blackwolf7 wrote: »

What pisses me off is that zenimax keeps on ignoring this problem and would not admit they fked up their release.

Game releases on the 4th so technically they haven't. Also, many people are enjoying the game so

Exactly. A lot of people are enjoying the game so they instead choose to ignore the small amount of population who btw are also paying for their services. We, despite being the minority, have the full right to get refund because we are being denied of the service we paid for. Also, early access is already part of the release if not then they should another wipe on april 4 for it to be considered as official release.

All zenimax need to do is to accept the fact that their devs made an error that affects a small but good amount of population of their subsribers.

All im suggesting is that instead of focusing a stupid zoom in character creation bug, they should focus on this more gameplay hindering issue.

Anyway I already gave up on the devs of this game. All I want to know is if I can get a refund. (Already filed a ticket but zenimax is also ignoring it)

For one, none is paying for a service yet. The game isnt even launched yet. And as with any mmo dev, they arent likely to apply much priority to performance issues of an extreme minority. They will work on issues that affect most first. Obviously you don't have much experience in mmos. This has to be the smoothest launch Ive ever seen.

Technically, I paid for it since the main reason I pre purchased the collector's edition was for the headstart. If the game hasn't been launched yet then how are people already playing it?

Smoothest? :O What's the last MMO you've played?

Valkerian · March 2014

Ok, maybe wait for the full launch of the game? I mean your complaining about early access, something that you got for pre-ordering the game which means that you have not even gotten the game yet. Also, how do you know it's 5%+ Do you have some statistics to show this? Or are you just guessing because your upset? for all you know it may be 1% or less. Who knows. But hey, if all else fails, I have the perfect solution for you. DON'T GET THE GAME! If it's bothering you so much that you don't want to pay the subscription or you don't want to pay for the game itself, then don't. Maybe come back in a few months when they've worked out launch bugs,

blackwolf7 · March 2014

Valkerian wrote: »

Ok, maybe wait for the full launch of the game? I mean your complaining about early access, something that you got for pre-ordering the game which means that you have not even gotten the game yet. Also, how do you know it's 5%+ Do you have some statistics to show this? Or are you just guessing because your upset? for all you know it may be 1% or less. Who knows. But hey, if all else fails, I have the perfect solution for you. DON'T GET THE GAME! If it's bothering you so much that you don't want to pay the subscription or you don't want to pay for the game itself, then don't. Maybe come back in a few months when they've worked out launch bugs,

My God, did you even read my post? Seriously, read first before posting.

I'm not upset because there's a bug that hinders me from playing the game. TBH every mmo release has this problem. I have been to a lot of mmos and none of them were smoothly released.

What I'm upset about is the fact that Zenimax won't accept their own stupidity and won't acknowledge that this issue is in fact, a problem on their side. People from all over the world are experiencing this. By using simple mathematics, you can see how many people posting this problem here in forums vs the other topics.

DON'T GET THE GAME? Nice solution bro, except I already did, I wont be asking for a refund if I didn't pre purchased it.

Please for the love of God, try to read before posting. Just a heads up.

zbcole · March 2014

blackwolf7 wrote: »

Based on that, i can intelligently assume that the problem isnt on our isp or pc but on the server side.

Intelligently and assume are contradictory terms. You haven't ruled out environment by what you described, only that the problem is isolated. If the issue is solely on their end, the likelihood of it impacting more users would be greater than 5-10%.

That's not to say the issue isn't on their end, just that the usual procedure is ruling out the environment first and foremost on any problem that would appear sporadic.

To jump into troubleshooting it on their end and working to fix code would be the equivalent of trying to kill a fly with a team full of sledgehammers. Sure, you may kill it eventually-but at what cost?

What pisses me off is that zenimax keeps on ignoring this problem and would not admit they fked up their release. I was not experiencing this during beta weekends so I think my ISp and pc are both fine.

I am sure you are pissed, as I would be too. But you are overstating the problem by claiming they *** up their release.

If every mmo could claim that less than 10% of their players had gameplay impactful issues at launch-their launches would be considered successful.

Not trying to be a devil's advocating ***, but seriously, you would go much farther with an attitude of "help me help you" then running around screaming for Zen to fix their ****. Likewise, Zen could stand to better explain the situation too.

oeb17_ESO · March 2014

Disconnects and such can happen to many different ISPs which maybe have the same bad peering to the ESO Servers. Do some traces and look for packet loss ! Tomorrow everything could be fine already. ZEN can do *** about it. There is no magical disconnect code to fix.

Tyskie · March 2014

Most expesive game I've ever bought and the worst. What happened to the no lag launch promise? I'd like my £80 back please.

blackwolf7 wrote: »

Hello! I'm just wondering if we are still elligible for a refund since the game is currently unplayable for most of us.

Always getting unknown error and having major lag issues.

Since this is only happening to 5-10% of the population, I figured that zenimax/bethesda wont be allocating their resource into fixing such minor bug. They've already acknowledge the no zoom bug in character creation and made it their priority over the lagging issues that some players are experiencing. Which for me, is a stupid decision. The character zoom in creation screen doesn't even affect the quality of gameplay that the players will experience and yet they made it their priority over the lagging and disconnection issue.

Since this is a monthly-sub game, I figured that this is not worth it. We pay to play and if we can't play then why pay?

So my question is, can we still ask for a refund? since where only in early access stage and not yet the official release.

Most expesive game I've ever bought and the worst. What happened to the no lag launch promise? I'd like my £80 back please.

Prospero_ESO · March 2014

blackwolf7 wrote: »

My God, are gamers becoming really stupid these days? Did you even read my post? Seriously, read first before posting or it will make you look like an idiot who can't understand simple english.

Maybe you should ask that yourself ? Do you think just because customers from a few different providers have problems with the game proves that there is something wrong on Zenimax´s end ? I alone know people from 3 different ISP´s which are playing without any issues so far.

There may be routing issues or issues with line limitations, who knows but this is not an issue an isp or zenimax can address on a sunday. Yes even when you paid your hard earned money to play. If you are that impatient, good luck with the refund, mmo launches are not your cup of tea.

blackwolf7 · March 2014

@zbcole if you read my previous post, i already did submit some issues asking them nicely. We all have our limits and sadly my patience just ran out.

I already submitted ticket multiple times about this issue. What I'm not sure is if it's an actual dev who only knows very few english word or an automatic response because no matter how much I explain my situation all I get are these answers in random order

Check my ISP
Check my config
check my fire wall
check my os
check my pc specs

Which, I did multiple times as well. I played during beta without any issues. So I am pretty sure it's not my OS, PC SPECS, FIREWALL and config. I called my ISP and they're not having any problems either. So I am guessing that it is indeed zenimax's server. Plus! If it is my ISP then how come other people from other places in the world ( some are even in US) are also experiencing this issue?

Anyway, your last statement is all I'm asking. Zenimax should atleast explain the situation instead of throwing random solutions which isn't connected to the problem. All I want is for zenimax to acknowledge this issue and atleast assure us that they are working on it.

blackwolf7 · March 2014

@Prospero_ESO‌

Courtesy? I did my best trying to ask nicely by sending tickets to Zen. I give my respect to them if they respect me back in return. Communication is a two way street.

I sent tickets asking about my problems and they keep on throwing repetitive solutions. It's like talking to a tape recorder. I was cool at first because as you've said, almost all mmos have problems during release.

But not this one. What makes this different is that Zen DOES NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS AS A PROBLEM. Other mmos accepted the problems during their launch and from their, created a solution.

Now to make it more understandable.

If Zenimax doesnt acknowledge this unknown error disconnections as a problem, then how will it get fixed? In Zenimax's point of view, this isnt a problem so why would they create a solution for it? Right?
That's why I gave up and went to ask for a refund instead.

The funny thing is that when I sent tickets inquiring about my "Unknown error" issues, they are quick to reply. But once I filed a ticket for a refund, suddenly all those who are replying to my tickets disappeared.

zbcole · March 2014

Understood, been there on both sides of the coin. Just to clarify, most high volume support centers will use canned messages for efficiency. Sadly, some handlers use the canned messages to the point of being a mindless drone.

A) ISP - Your ISP is mainly going to look and see if they have any reported outages. They aren't going to understand nor look into detail why you can't connect to a game.

B:) As far as your environment, is the lag "Latency" or "Graphical"? If you are able to get in, use /fps and monitor your framerate. Go to a remote area where there are not a lot of people. If you are maintaining at least 12-16 FPS, any lag that occurs in that period is most likely latency and not graphics related.

C) Assuming it's latency - do this:
-Remove any routers and connect directly to the Point-of-Access via your ISP
-Disable any Antivirus or Network Security Protocols (If you have some that are not being used, UNINSTALL)
-Disable any Firewalls

On each step, do a "ping -n 100 www.google.com" via a cmd prompt and test in game for improvements.

Each step is to rule out potential threats to your environment.

D) Once you have done so, contact your ISP with that information, and ask them whether they use their own DNS service or not. I would presume their own DNS would keep you from connecting at all, but I have seen all sorts of strange things with ISPs that use their own DNS. Ask them if they have any proprietary measures for how you connect to the internet similar to their own DNS.

Once you have that information, go back on your same support ticket and give them the findings. Ask them if they have a server that you could run a ping test against to check for connectivity.

If you experience or encounter any issues on the ping with packetloss, you can use the tracert command to see where it stops.

Troubleshooting ISP potential issues between yourself and a 3rd party is not fun, but between those steps, you should at least get pointed in the direction of where the problem lies - assuming its network related.

blackwolf7 · March 2014

Im 100% sure it's not graphical since im playing on maximum settings during beta and didnt lagged nor froze.

I will be contacting my isp again to make sure. Thanks for the tips @zbcole‌

zbcole · March 2014

BTW-are you using Virgin Media? Combing the forums, there is a specific ISP issue there for Virgin Media. No fix for it, but theres already some items pointing to an ISP service issue that relates to a ggr3.dlstx.ip.att.net hop.

Do a tracert 198.20.200.64 and see if it stops at that same hop.

dcam86b14_ESO · March 2014

I live in Central Texas and I have already called IP and checked and did all the tips suggested by support and other users. Its come to down to frustration now, I am having that memory leak bug or w/e ppl are calling it. I have never experienced such a horrible game play experience not even on a old as laptop playing TERA online for a year with like 20fps it still ran better than eso is running atm. I have a new PC with great specs can run ESO at 100 fps but for some reason this bug is effecting me and it's really really annoying. Please please if you have these issues keep pushing for a fix or they will lose money.

zbcole · March 2014

Memory Leak shouldn't be an isolated problem. If there was a substantial issue with a memory leak-far more users would be impacted.

Ojustaboo · March 2014

20 members in my guild with 5 days early access, mostly from the UK, a few from other EU countries.

For all of us it has been a perfect launch and for those of us who have played other mmos at launch, this has been the smoothest by a long way.

A lot of different isps between us.

So I don't think it's fair to say most people can't play.

That of course doesn't lessen your problem and if I was you I too wouldn't be happy.

It's also wrong to automatically presume they are pouring all their resources into the bonus item problem at the expense of your problem. They have more than a handful of devs and I suspect they are as keen to sort your problem out as you are.

I hope you get it sorted quickly.

It could be that they simply don't know what's causing your problem, if everyone has the problem it's easier to locate and pinpoint the problem but when 95%+ of players from all over the globe are playing with zero problems, it becomes much harder to isolate it.

As a side note, I used to have 100 Mbps with Virginmedia and had constant YouTube buffering etc. I switched to Sky and now have around 18 Mbps, it might take me a bit longer to download, but I can watch HD YouTube vids with zero stuttering now and over all I get far less lag etc when gaming.

Mythadorim · March 2014

I would like a refund as well. I can't even get past the initial loading screen in order to create a character. I understand having issues, but this is a major issue that isn't even being admitted to. Maybe they need to go back to business school and retake business ethics.

Laura · March 2014

blackwolf7 wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

blackwolf7 wrote: »

Distrobomb wrote: »

blackwolf7 wrote: »

What pisses me off is that zenimax keeps on ignoring this problem and would not admit they fked up their release.

Game releases on the 4th so technically they haven't. Also, many people are enjoying the game so

Exactly. A lot of people are enjoying the game so they instead choose to ignore the small amount of population who btw are also paying for their services. We, despite being the minority, have the full right to get refund because we are being denied of the service we paid for. Also, early access is already part of the release if not then they should another wipe on april 4 for it to be considered as official release.

All zenimax need to do is to accept the fact that their devs made an error that affects a small but good amount of population of their subsribers.

All im suggesting is that instead of focusing a stupid zoom in character creation bug, they should focus on this more gameplay hindering issue.

Anyway I already gave up on the devs of this game. All I want to know is if I can get a refund. (Already filed a ticket but zenimax is also ignoring it)

For one, none is paying for a service yet. The game isnt even launched yet. And as with any mmo dev, they arent likely to apply much priority to performance issues of an extreme minority. They will work on issues that affect most first. Obviously you don't have much experience in mmos. This has to be the smoothest launch Ive ever seen.

Technically, I paid for it since the main reason I pre purchased the collector's edition was for the headstart. If the game hasn't been launched yet then how are people already playing it?

Smoothest? :O What's the last MMO you've played? WoW? TBH, I was trying to take you seriously but then you spit this crap, I just realized you've been trolling. Too bad though, you almost fooled me it's just that somehow stupidity slipped through your fingers which made you obvious.

been the smoothest for me and everyone in my multi platform guild too of 312 people. so I'd say the 10% is wrong. Not a single person is having an issue other than a bugged quest here and there. I think yours is a real issue (and I sympathize) but some people in this thread are having some obvious FPS *** computer issues. Give it to actual release then push for a refund imo but yeah I have to agree if you can't play then you shouldn't be paying.

slander36 · March 2014

First off, great rundown, zbcole.

Just a few quick notes to add:
1. Beta servers were not the live server environment in the way you think of it. Even if they are the same machines, they are most likely using a different or modified network and the network provider they are using may have made changes to their own configuration, which could cause problems at any point down the line.

2. Again, just because your ISP says everything is fine doesn't mean jack. All they check for is that they can see your modem on their network and that there aren't any outages in the area. I highly doubt they are doing packet checks across their network between you and where the ESO servers reside.

3. ISPs are HORRIBLE at standardizing anything, so any point in the line, even using the same ISP, could cause issues. Different routers and switches being used at different points in the pipeline from your house to the closest switch to the head switch to the state switch, etc. etc. They only replace things when they fail, so you could quite literally be using a switch from 2004 which hasn't had a firmware update since 2010, depending on what your local branch is doing. My local ISP would actually go to Best Buy to buy all their modems so they could rent it out to residents, so everyone in the city is using some random manufacturer/firmware/age modem. IPSs are pieces of *** no matter who you have, so believing them at face value while assuming Zeni's CS questions are bogus is mind blowing. There are so many factors involved that I don't envy their support in the least when trying to deal with this problem.

4. Most importantly, I'm sorry, but you're not going to get the UI guys to look into your networking problem, so assuming that "getting the devs on it" is a slap in the face for a completely unrelated problem is just asinine on the face of it. I understand the frustration, but a guy coding LUA is more than likely not going to be able to help you at all when it comes to figuring out why you're having packet loss to the server, and neither will almost any other dev. This is Sys Ops type stuff.

Reignskream · March 2014

Something id like everybody to take into consideration is you accepted an agreement before you started playing this game stating that you understood these kinds of things could happen. I'd like to refer people here: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service And please go down to # 6.

It isn't Zenimax's fault if you didn't read what you accepted.

Seer · March 2014

The incompetence from the dev team is appalling. Not only they can't fix game breaking issues, they are not even talking about it. They are more interested in vanity.

Siegfried_Greymane · March 2014

@Reginskream the key part to no. 6 is "Except as prohibited by applicable law." You have consumer protection laws in your country?

Reignskream · March 2014

Siegfried_Greymane wrote: »

@Reginskream the key part to no. 6 is "Except as prohibited by applicable law." You have consumer protection laws in your country?

Fact is in the agreement it states that these things could happen, you were made well aware of it. Thats all im trying to enforce here, because allot of people are complaining when they havn't clearly read the terms of service. While i feel your pain as i have dealt with many bugs myself, i understood and knew what to expect.

zbcole · March 2014

Exactly Siegfried, and not to derail this conversation in a contractual law discussion of EULA or TOS agreements, but TOS are always used to indemnify the company of any liability in managing the product as they see fit.

When it comes to liability - a TOS will merely discourage potential threats of lawsuit (i.e. Steam incorporates an agreement that relinquishes your right to a class-action lawsuit against Valve). Most won't hold up in defense, if the actions are not regarded as "reasonable in the course of the transaction".

And "we can do what we want when we want so *** off" is generally not regarded as reasonable. The issue here is definitely within reason, but the fact that Zen scaled their product offerings with increased EDA - tends to lend itself that people were paying for EDA.

In the end, you can be entitled to your money back provided you paid with a credit card. See, Zen has their TOS - Credit Card companies have theirs.

In the end - I don't think that's what anyone wants. Someone just wants what they paid for, and when they can't get it, they just need a support service that makes them feel like the problem is serious, real and being looked into.

I think the last part of that is the greatest failure.

Reignskream · March 2014

We also have to remember were dealing with a 30+gig game, that is an MMO, and if you have ever played an MMO (especially at launch), you should understand that these things happen. I couldnt log on yesterday for hours, at one point i tried leveling and i couldnt even level. Would kick me off and reset me back to certain levels. Although i can get in the game, i had many many other crappy things happen to me as well throughout today and yesterday as far as bugs go.

I dont want to get into the fine details because i dont understand them 100%, but all i do know is they informed us clearly of these things that may happen. I hope everybody gets a fix and things worked out soon.

ZOS_AlexD · March 2014

We're sorry for any frustration this issue continues to cause and we appreciate everyone's patience. @Tyskie and @Mythadorim, have you contacted our Customer Support Team to discuss this issue further? If not, please let us know, and we can create a ticket for you. Thank you.

zbcole · March 2014

Fact is in the agreement it states that these things could happen, you were made well aware of it.

Your overstating the point in the TOS. Being included in the TOS is one thing (not exactly a well read document). Having marketed the EDA is another. And EDA is/was never with an *.

They pushed for sales based on EDA.

I would regard this as a very good launch and one of the best I have seen-but if I was in the OP's shoes, I would be highly disappointed as part of the reason I parted with the coin that I did was for EDA.

Bastos · March 2014

A few years back i had the same problem in world of warcraft. Packed losses, lag and +- 300 ping. I knew it was not the problem of blizzard so i called my isp to ask what was going on. They said my line was perfect. But still i had lag and high ping. I live in Belgium and even on the Paris based server i had a ping of 80 to 100 what is alot.

I started to look into it myself and checked the bounces my internet did to get to that server (you don't go directly to the server).
And 1 of the bounces was the problem. I think i went over Speedlnk.org server and that was the bottleneck for me. While my buddy that was at another provider then me went over Amsterdam.nl server. And he had a perfect ping...10 to 25 ping in prime time.

So i switched provider and now i'm gaming at topspeeds in europe and at 70 to 90 ping in America.

So be carefull who you blame for your problems. And if 95% of the people have no problems why whould they jump on a problem where 5% has.

ZOS_UlyssesW · March 2014

Greetings,

We are closing this thread because there is already a thread about this issue . Please try to use the search button before creating a new thread. That allows us to help players more efficiently and facilitates the visibility of different issues.