ZOS, you need to adress the furnishing and housing grind

Apache_Kid · January 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

duendology wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Lots of people here don't really know what they are talking about, they just pour out opinions left and right without any facts to back it up.
I doubt any of the drop defenders in this thread actually know just how horribly low the dropchance of these recipes really are.

And I suspect that the drop rate is just the same like for other purple plans in any zone.. but the fact that EVERYONE , and I repeat... EVERYONE, has been farming for those recipes because it's NEW DLC therefore NEW RECIPES makes it harder to get those..
If you've got just every player thinking now 'I must have a morrowind recipes so I am going to Morrowind" or "CWC one, so I am going to CWC"..so you have what you have... low drop rate.

Am I incorrect in my assumption?

Now, if only there was a thread here somewhere that described meticulously the drop rate of DLC recipes from containers. Oh wait, there was.

If people who have no clue about the droprates and loottables just refrained from commenting on this thread, we could have a much more fruitful discussion. I swear it's like some people don't even play this game.

It's not like we're asking for much here, be reasonable, ZOS.

- Include ALL blue and purple recipes in the Hlaalu documents loottables. You upped their cost 2.5 times, at least make them offer the DLC recipes at the same rate, to offset that cost.
- Remove base game recipes from the loottables of DLC zones. Or at least drastically downgrade them, while at the same time upping the DLC recipes droprate. Finding 90 % nord hay carts and argonian mud shovels is insulting when you're farming in Vvardenfell or Clockwork city. Those base game recipes have no place in the DLC loottables.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror

Yaaaassss I second this put them in the Hlaalu documents immediately. The current system is total BS.

angelncelestine · January 2018

For several weeks I looted urns with 9 toons at least 3 times per toon every night, and I never once got a purple blueprint. Clearly anyone defending the drop rates don’t understand how bad they really are.

Carbonised · January 2018

angelncelestine wrote: »

For several weeks I looted urns with 9 toons at least 3 times per toon every night, and I never once got a purple blueprint. Clearly anyone defending the drop rates don’t understand how bad they really are.

Yes, I think some people really have no idea what's going on here.

People are not complaining because the DLC recipes (especially purple ones) are hard to find. People are complaining because they are astronomically, horrible, extremely, minisculely, abysmically hard to find.

I'm farming Buoyant Armiger motif right now, the motif with the lowest drop rate on the server, and I have more luck finding pages from that one than I do finding DLC furnishing recipes .....

I'm also farming the urns, I have 8 characters stationed there, farming both the main rooms and the back room for the quest, and I only have a single purple blueprint drop from many, many farming runs - and of course it was a cheap base game blueprint and not even a Morrowind one!

This is simply put unacceptable, and it's quickly sucking out all enjoyment and excitement from this Homestead aspect of the game.

Carbonised · January 2018

I would also like to pose an open question to ZOS (which I have no illusions that they will ever answer), whether this is the way you will monetize your game in 2018 as well? We have 1 Chapter and 1 zone/story DLC coming in 2018, do you intend to keep their furnishing/blueprint droprate as abyssmal as you have with Morrowind and CWC? With the only reasoning being that you want to "incentivize" people to buy your crown store furnishings for 600-800 crowns a pop instead? If that is the case, I'm sure you're gonna lose more than a few subscribtions and possible customers. If people are going to choose between 500k-1M gold expensive recipes and 800 Crowns furniture, they are not necessarily choosing the lesser evil. Some people will boycott he entire system instead, leave in distaste, or simply live in sparsely decorated ghost homes, like many people already do.
If, however, you had chosen a more generous monetization, with more reasonably priced crown store furnishings and better recipe droprates, you would have encouraged more people to participate in the decorating features, and eventually bought something from the store.

Case in point: I think most of your flowers, plants and trees are somewhat reasonably priced (with a few exceptions), so with the crown sale I went ahead a bought a bunch of garden stuff for my mushroom home from the crown store. And I was quite content.
On the other hand, I saw your 600-800 crowns-per-piece pricing for Morrowind furniture such as lamps, beds and chairs, and I didn't buy a single thing from that category. And I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking like that.

If you had sold the recipes, like you sell motifs in the store, I might have bought some if they were reasonably priced. But 800 crowns for a single piece of furniture? Not in a million years.

angelncelestine · January 2018

Something else that should be addressed is the drop rate on the new paintings. I don’t think they hardly exist either.

Carbonised · January 2018

angelncelestine wrote: »

Something else that should be addressed is the drop rate on the new paintings. I don’t think they hardly exist either.

The Morrowind paintings only drop from lockboxes, and with a p*sspoor droprate like everything else. The Velothi panels, arguably the best looking of the new paintings, I haven't seen at all for sale, and I imagine their drop rate is something like the aetherial cipher, i.e. almost nonexistant. As for the "normal" morrowind paintings, I see one for sale here and there, but few and very far in between, and of course for an axtremely large amount of gold as well.

This has become the standard for everything Morrowind and CWC related, whether it's furnishings, furnishing plans or Buoyant Armiger motif. And it's getting rediculously out of hand.

heaven13 · January 2018

I found 6 furnishing plans today in the Clockwork Basilica: 3 white, 1 blue, 2 green. Not a single one was from the DLC. Tired of finding vanilla plans here.

angelncelestine · January 2018

Unfortunately I don’t see the drop rates changing anytime soon. Maybe when the new chapter comes out, and they add many more blueprints that they will make hard to find. Now if we had as many people coming to the forums complaining about this issue like people complain about PVP we might see a change.

Linaleah · January 2018

duendology wrote: »

@Carbonised
Pardon, my ignorance, Oh the Enlightened One! I haven't done the PhD yet on this subject. Got interested in Homestead about two months ago and still it's a hobby not a raison d'etre. o_0

If people who have no clue about the droprates and loottables just refrained from commenting on this thread, we could have a much more fruitful discussion. I swear it's like some people don't even play this game

[Snip]

while carbonized may have been a bit too frustrated, your poriginal comment was incredibly ignorant and it has nothing to do with being laid back.

droprates are not dependent on amount of people farming it, in that percentage chance of something dropping is constant. meaning that the more people farm something - the more common its supposed to get. and drop rates for DLC patterns are most certainly significantly lower than for original patterns. its not even an assumption its a proven fact. multiple people who have been farming consistently - have seen the same results. even disregarding hlaalu documents (that have been officially confirmed to ONLY contain old recipes, unfortunately I cannot find that post at the moment, but I remember the confirmation, as i DO tend to follow all things homestead closely) - droprate for original purples, while still exceedingly low - is significantly higher then DLC purples. we even had a bet going in Hearthlight - how many original purples will one of the guildies get before getting first CwC one. I think it was in upper 30ties.

to put it in perspective - it can take weeks of consistent, dedicated, targeted farming- JUST to get a single purple recipes. there is a reason those things, when they do show up at guild traders, sell for half a mil gold give or take. they are THAT rare.

the only item in a game that I know of to be rarer - is aetherial dust.

drop rates are a problem.

will ZoS do anything about it? i don't know. they ARE after all motivated to encourage us to buy things with crowns.

[Edited for quote]

duendology · January 2018

@Linaleah
My original comment was started as an assumption (assumption is not a statement of fact) I made (and made it clear it's an assumption)... ended with a question...NOT a statement (observe the difference) so that if I am not correct, *gods of housing* can correct me. Nowhere in the requirements of this subforum it's written that you have to be advanced in housing or its mechanics to be allowed to post here. So, what it is, gods forbid to post or speculate if you're not all "know how" about housing? o_0 How awesome!

Other than that...have an "insightful".

ps: I know it's sometimes hard to understand for the old players that there are people who may not know, or can't be arsed to know, every detail about this game or its mechanics or.. simply haven't gotten there yet... or care to know. Understand? But it does not mean they're "incredibly" ignorant.. I could call you ignorant for not even entertaining the thought that not everyone is as experienced or knowledgeable (as I assume) you are about....eso housing.

Linaleah · January 2018

duendology wrote: »

@Linaleah
My original comment was started as an assumption I made (and made it clear it's an assumption)... ended with a question...NOT a statement (observe the difference) so that if I am not correct, *gods of housing* can correct me. Nowhere in the requirements of this subforum it's written that you have to be advanced in housing or its mechanics to be allowed to post here. So, what it is, gods forbid to post or speculate if you're not all "know how" about housing? o_0 How awesome!

Other than that...have an "insightful".

thanks for insightful, and sure you are allowed to make whatever comments you'd like. and we are allowed to point out when those comments are not constructive

I don't know if I would call any of us "gods of housing" just people who are invested into that part of the game, who have had a great deal of experience farming for furniture. it is becasue of that experience that we make these posts on drop rates (and btw, just to put it in a perspective, aforementioned guildie that was faring for clockwork purples. that was across a considerable amount of time per day, for considerable number of days, on multiple characters (since farming involves essentially looting various in game containers, which take roughly half an hour to respawn, so its typical to cycle through alts, that are parked in ones farming area of choice)

I'm not even the most intense farmer out there, and I still ended up with thousands and thousands of decorative wax (one of the items you can get from containers) tens of thousands of lorkan's tears, I don't even know how many lockpicks and vendor trash items. and of course.. thousands of base racial style mats. given that I also tend to do daily crafting writs on a minimum of 5 characters per day (and all of those involve using racial style mats) and craft various racial furniture as I slowly decorate yet another house? it might give you a bit more of a picture just how small of a percentage chance there is to get actual furnishing recipes, let alone DLC ones.

out of curiocity, I counted the number of containers (mostly urns, but also 2 backpacks) that I looted on a single run. bear in mind, that some of the urns inside the tomb were already empty - they spawn like that sometimes.

86. per run. a run takes a few minutes, since its only 3 rooms (I prefer Dreloth tomb for vvardenfell farming) I got zero furnishing patterns. on a good day, i personaly would do a dozen runs per character, on at least 5 characters while watching something on netflix. on a good day, I might get couple of old world blues and a bunch of old world greens. every other day, best case scenario i may get a vvardenfel blue and or old world purple. I've only found a total of half a dozen vvardenfel purples. and I have been farming on and off like this, since Morrowind was released.

don't even get me started on clockwork as it doesn't even have these handy, easy to farm, lots of containers rooms.

Katahdin · January 2018

I agree the drop rates on DLC furniture plans are abysmal.

They are rarer than unicorns

Jayne_Doe · January 2018

I agree that the droprate on DLC plans is abysmal, which is why I've resigned myself to purchasing MW furniture from other players. Now, I would much rather make the furniture myself, but after months of farming with little to show for it, I've resorted to purchasing pieces from others players to finish my houses.

So, yes, it's helpful to the in-game economy that these DLC recipes are rare so that players can sell finished pieces. However, it's not exactly profitable for everyone. Only some players get lucky and score a rare purple MW blueprint and make lots of gold. The unlucky players don't have rare purple plans to craft furniture to make bank. Also, prices on MW furnishings have gone down, so it's great for me since I'm paying less now (though I bought a few pieces at the initial high prices), but it's not great for players who finally score a Telvanni plan only to find that they can sell the finished product at half what the initial lucky players did.

I don't think we need to return to the glut of purple recipes at Homestead launch, when the purple furnishing document was 10 vouchers (though the droprate was decidedly lopsided), but the droprate on DLC plans does need to increase. Some people want to make their own furniture and don't really care about making furniture to sell to others. I've put up a few pieces here and there, but I've got new homes to furnish and don't want to waste my mats making furniture to turn into gold.

Increase the droprate on the DLC plans - better yet, remove the vanilla plans from the loot tables. Also, set up Rolis in the DLC areas where players can buy DLC furnishing documents - they can even cost 50-100 vouchers. Just anything to help ease the burden for players who actually want to craft their own furniture for their homes - who want to participate fully in the furniture crafting system.

anadandy · January 2018

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

I don't think we need to return to the glut of purple recipes at Homestead launch

I must have been asleep during this glut. I've been playing since Homesteads launch, and I still have only ever found three purple patterns (of any style) in the wild. Unless this is specifically referencing the 10 voucher plans, which I never had enough vouchers to purchase.

heaven13 · January 2018

I have 3 aetherial dust. I've received NO blue OR purple clockwork plans and just one single green one. They're pretty rare indeed, lol

Apache_Kid · January 2018

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

I agree that the droprate on DLC plans is abysmal, which is why I've resigned myself to purchasing MW furniture from other players. Now, I would much rather make the furniture myself, but after months of farming with little to show for it, I've resorted to purchasing pieces from others players to finish my houses.

So, yes, it's helpful to the in-game economy that these DLC recipes are rare so that players can sell finished pieces. However, it's not exactly profitable for everyone. Only some players get lucky and score a rare purple MW blueprint and make lots of gold. The unlucky players don't have rare purple plans to craft furniture to make bank. Also, prices on MW furnishings have gone down, so it's great for me since I'm paying less now (though I bought a few pieces at the initial high prices), but it's not great for players who finally score a Telvanni plan only to find that they can sell the finished product at half what the initial lucky players did.

I don't think we need to return to the glut of purple recipes at Homestead launch, when the purple furnishing document was 10 vouchers (though the droprate was decidedly lopsided), but the droprate on DLC plans does need to increase. Some people want to make their own furniture and don't really care about making furniture to sell to others. I've put up a few pieces here and there, but I've got new homes to furnish and don't want to waste my mats making furniture to turn into gold.

Increase the droprate on the DLC plans - better yet, remove the vanilla plans from the loot tables. Also, set up Rolis in the DLC areas where players can buy DLC furnishing documents - they can even cost 50-100 vouchers. Just anything to help ease the burden for players who actually want to craft their own furniture for their homes - who want to participate fully in the furniture crafting system.

I'd much rather have a glut of purple furnishings than none at all . 50-100 is way too much. Put the cost of normal purples back go 10 and DLC ones at 25. Seems fair to me.

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

The housing grind is extremely manageable.

Furniture mats cost almost nothing these days. If you're not after recipes, crafted furniture is extremely cheap on guild traders (5-15k per item for DLC furniture).

It's only a grind if you want to own all recipes (in which case you need to grind for gold, which is the easiest grind in the game).

Carbonised · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The housing grind is extremely manageable.

Furniture mats cost almost nothing these days. If you're not after recipes, crafted furniture is extremely cheap on guild traders (5-15k per item for DLC furniture).

It's only a grind if you want to own all recipes (in which case you need to grind for gold, which is the easiest grind in the game).

If by "almost nothing" you mean 56 gold for a mundane rune and 60 gold for a piece of heartwood, and by "almost nothing" you mean needing 12 heartwood, 8 runes, 10 regulus, 15 racial style stones and 3 pieces of purple upgrade mats, also sitting at 350 per item, then sure, you're completely correct. If you had bothered to check, you would also see that the MM price for runes and heartwood, and other furnishing materials, is slowly climbing, and that they are sold out in several of the guild traders, or listed at high prices.

But yes, the material component is at least somewhat manageable, and once again, that's not really what this thread is about, it's about the recipes. You know, like the Morrowind purple recipes that cost 500k to 1M per recipe. How is that "only a grind for gold" in anyone's book? Maybe you have 80-100 M lying about for recipes purchases, but I sincerely doubt many of us do.

Is 10k per furniture your definition of "extremely cheap"? How many do you need for a large house - 400? 500? At least, with a limit of 700 in a manor. That's again 4-5 M or up to 6-7 M solely for decorations. And half of that is profit directly into someone's pocket because they were lucky enough to have managed to get one of these recipes, or because they had enough means and gold to begin with, and bought up these recipes when they were for sale, and now have a fat profit margin off of it.

And while CWC recipes at least are for sale, though expensive, I have seen a grand total of 2 recipes in Telvanni style for sale in all guild stores for the last whole month. And both was for the small footstool. Not a single other Telvanni recipe for sale in any guild store on the PC EU server that I could find. Oh, and those footstool recipes were listed at about 900k.

Same goes for many of the popular rare purple recipes, such as the tapestries and carpets. They're not even for sale any more, no one finds them or sells them.

So maybe drop the charade and stop calling something "extremely manageable" when it is quiite the opposite. Everything is manageable when you're swimming in gold. Unfortunately, many of us don't, and thus have no way to grind for these recipes on our own, which is what this thread is all about.

Blacknight841 · January 2018

<<<Everything is functioning as intended>>>

I would be extremely disappointed if they changed the drop rates. I have spent the majority of my time, since the launch of morrowind, farming plans, running endless loops in bonesnap and spending millions to obtain almost all of the plans that exist in the game. I do understand the gripe that everyone has with it, but you can either complain about it or work with it. it is certainly not impossible to farm them, and it is also very easy to make gold in the game to buy plans if you are not in the mood to farm them. I am not happy about the drop rate, but i would be more unhappy with a drastic change to make the plans more commonplace. I know that all but 8 of the furnishing plans are known by a total of 4 players on the xbox one NA server, so you can definitely find the crafted items, or get someone to make it. If you aren't "swimming" in gold, head to dreloth and find me one of the plans i am missing. I will gladly pay for it. You can then use that gold to go buy the furniture from the store that you need for your house. Having spent well over the amount you guesstimated to buy all the plans, i can tell you that i am no where near breaking even on that amount from selling furniture, and there are no fat pockets from learning these plans.

The issue you have is that you are dealing with a much smaller server population, PC EU. There are not as many people probably doing writs and opening the hlaalu boxes to keep the market filled with older purple plans. (I can with 100% certainty say that the hlaalu shipments ONLY contain the original housing launch plans). Unfortunately for you, the best option is to start farming dreloth for the plans, as i am still doing. Your issue isn't the drop rates, it is the lack of farming for the plans on your server.

I don't know how many people on your server can make a hlaalu canopy bed, but on the xb1 NA, there are at least 7 people that i know of who have read the plan. You may say 7 people is nothing, but when you consider the drop rate of a specific morrowind purple plan (1/515 or 0.19%), you can see that there have been quite a lot of purple plans pulled. There are at least 5 people with near complete sets of all furnishing plans on our server. There have been a lot of plans pulled.

Just because it is not easy to do, does not mean it is impossible to complete. And before everyone gets on their high horse and starts saying that i only did this for the profits, let me make sure to reiterate the point where i have not earned back anywhere near the amount of gold i have spent on these plans or the gold i could have made farming other things to sell. (And that is mostly because i don't charge for things as long as you have the mats). I realized very early on how rare these plans will be, and made it my mission to make sure to learn all the plans in the game, so that even with a diminishing community, there will always be someone on the server that can make the items for new and old players. From a GM standpoint, it is about working together as a community when it comes to these plans, and that is what the developers intended. So although farming them all by yourself may be a near impossible feat, working together and farming the plans as a group is manageable. Everyone is capable of grinding the recipes if they want them bad enough.

Not everything in the game should be handed out like Daedric benches. If you want to make make your own furniture and dont want to grind for the rare recipes, then feel free to do some writs and buy the hlaalu shipment crates. You can get 379 different purple plans from there (over 70% of all the purple plans). If everyone should make everything, then why not just make a vendor that sell everything, or a boss you can kill to guarantee a cipher drop, might as well put aetherial dust in all nodes, and have all refinements yield a gold improvement material too. Dont forget to give skins out for entering the dungeons, rather than completing it, and Emperor should obviously be rotated throughout the day so everyone gets a turn at it in pvp. It doesn't matter how rare or common an item is, there will always be people complaining about not being able to find one. I haven't gotten a cipher yet and i have killed tens of thousands of enemies. You can probably farm every single morrowind plan before you farm a cipher.

What they did to the clockwork plans was a travesty. My only remaining hope for this game is that they do not repeat that in the future. It was unnecessary and it ruined the market for the clockwork plans. Of course people are not farming the clockwork plans anymore, as most of the collectors bought up the plans during the event. (i got a fabricant tree plan for 10k on a trader). Since they had the event, i have not set a foot in clockwork city as there is no need for me to go back there. They ruined the zone by handing out the only items that were rare from the DLC. Plus they didn't just give it to people with the dlc, but everyone that participated in the event had a chance to get it. So aside from a few hours of questing, what was the point of buying the dlc now? In a game that is so repetitive, extremely rare items that are still obtainable are necessary. The DLC plans fit that perfectly. They are not necessary to play the game. You can easily decorate a house without it (its not like the only way you can get a table is from a morrowind plan), but for those that have finished the quests in morrowind, it gives me a reason to go back and try to find something new!

Carbonised · January 2018

Blacknight841 wrote: »

<<<Everything is functioning as intended>>>

I would be extremely disappointed if they changed the drop rates. I have spent the majority of my time, since the launch of morrowind, farming plans, running endless loops in bonesnap and spending millions to obtain almost all of the plans that exist in the game. I do understand the gripe that everyone has with it, but you can either complain about it or work with it. it is certainly not impossible to farm them, and it is also very easy to make gold in the game to buy plans if you are not in the mood to farm them. I am not happy about the drop rate, but i would be more unhappy with a drastic change to make the plans more commonplace. I know that all but 8 of the furnishing plans are known by a total of 4 players on the xbox one NA server, so you can definitely find the crafted items, or get someone to make it. If you aren't "swimming" in gold, head to dreloth and find me one of the plans i am missing. I will gladly pay for it. You can then use that gold to go buy the furniture from the store that you need for your house. Having spent well over the amount you guesstimated to buy all the plans, i can tell you that i am no where near breaking even on that amount from selling furniture, and there are no fat pockets from learning these plans.

The issue you have is that you are dealing with a much smaller server population, PC EU. There are not as many people probably doing writs and opening the hlaalu boxes to keep the market filled with older purple plans. (I can with 100% certainty say that the hlaalu shipments ONLY contain the original housing launch plans). Unfortunately for you, the best option is to start farming dreloth for the plans, as i am still doing. Your issue isn't the drop rates, it is the lack of farming for the plans on your server.

I don't know how many people on your server can make a hlaalu canopy bed, but on the xb1 NA, there are at least 7 people that i know of who have read the plan. You may say 7 people is nothing, but when you consider the drop rate of a specific morrowind purple plan (1/515 or 0.19%), you can see that there have been quite a lot of purple plans pulled. There are at least 5 people with near complete sets of all furnishing plans on our server. There have been a lot of plans pulled.

Just because it is not easy to do, does not mean it is impossible to complete. And before everyone gets on their high horse and starts saying that i only did this for the profits, let me make sure to reiterate the point where i have not earned back anywhere near the amount of gold i have spent on these plans or the gold i could have made farming other things to sell. (And that is mostly because i don't charge for things as long as you have the mats). I realized very early on how rare these plans will be, and made it my mission to make sure to learn all the plans in the game, so that even with a diminishing community, there will always be someone on the server that can make the items for new and old players. From a GM standpoint, it is about working together as a community when it comes to these plans, and that is what the developers intended. So although farming them all by yourself may be a near impossible feat, working together and farming the plans as a group is manageable. Everyone is capable of grinding the recipes if they want them bad enough.

Not everything in the game should be handed out like Daedric benches. If you want to make make your own furniture and dont want to grind for the rare recipes, then feel free to do some writs and buy the hlaalu shipment crates. You can get 379 different purple plans from there (over 70% of all the purple plans). If everyone should make everything, then why not just make a vendor that sell everything, or a boss you can kill to guarantee a cipher drop, might as well put aetherial dust in all nodes, and have all refinements yield a gold improvement material too. Dont forget to give skins out for entering the dungeons, rather than completing it, and Emperor should obviously be rotated throughout the day so everyone gets a turn at it in pvp. It doesn't matter how rare or common an item is, there will always be people complaining about not being able to find one. I haven't gotten a cipher yet and i have killed tens of thousands of enemies. You can probably farm every single morrowind plan before you farm a cipher.

What they did to the clockwork plans was a travesty. My only remaining hope for this game is that they do not repeat that in the future. It was unnecessary and it ruined the market for the clockwork plans. Of course people are not farming the clockwork plans anymore, as most of the collectors bought up the plans during the event. (i got a fabricant tree plan for 10k on a trader). Since they had the event, i have not set a foot in clockwork city as there is no need for me to go back there. They ruined the zone by handing out the only items that were rare from the DLC. Plus they didn't just give it to people with the dlc, but everyone that participated in the event had a chance to get it. So aside from a few hours of questing, what was the point of buying the dlc now? In a game that is so repetitive, extremely rare items that are still obtainable are necessary. The DLC plans fit that perfectly. They are not necessary to play the game. You can easily decorate a house without it (its not like the only way you can get a table is from a morrowind plan), but for those that have finished the quests in morrowind, it gives me a reason to go back and try to find something new!

I'm just going to keep this reply super short, since there already are some large posts in this thread

- I can understand why you have this view. You spent tens of millions on buying these recipes, so you're salty that someone might get them cheaper. It's just the old "I had to suffer for that, so everyone has to suffer the exact same as me"! It's understandable, but unfortunately doesn't make it any more right.
- You keep mentioning Hlaalu documents, and even say yourself they don't drop Morrowind recipes. Have you misunderstood something? We're talking Morrowind purple recipes here, not common purples. Why would I want to farm Hlaalu when they don't drop from his documents. Also, yes these recipes are necessary to decorate a Vvardenfell home. Doesn't make much sense to buy Tel Galen or the other Vvardenfell themed homes and not be able to fill them with the specific furnitures for that zone.
- Even if your server is more populated, and we still haven't really seen any real evidence for that, all server population speculation on ESO is just heresay and personal opinion; well good for you then. So you have better acces for these recipes, does that mean that PC people should just suffer in silence then? Isn't it fair that we have just as much access to recipes as other servers?
- "So although farming them all by yourself may be a near impossible feat, working together and farming the plans as a group is manageable" - if I wanted group content I'd have joined a trial or a dungeon. Even if this is an MMO, it doesn't mean that every single feature has to be inaccessable unless you're a group. Plenty of people playing this game prefer to solo or are more or less loners. Recipe & motif farming was one of the few interesting and sometimes profitable thing you could do solo in this game, now that's gone too (for Morrowind anyway).
- Good for you that you're the epitome of charity and make furniture for everyone for free. And I'm not even being sarcastic. But you know, here on PC we unfortunately have to pay 12k in guild shops for a purple item that requires 2.5k of mats to make. That's the reality some of us have to live in. And the more gold we spend to buy super expensive furniture with, the less gold we have to actually buy one of these recipes ourselves when they do turn up once in a blue moon.

Carbonised · January 2018

After having farmed the Vvardenfell recipes for 12+ hours or so, on 9 alts, all parked in the same spot, I have found a grand total of 1 Vvardenfell purple recipe, and it wasn't even a very interesting one.
To contrast, I am sitting on half the Armiger motif finished, as well as having found 4 duplicates, and that has taken me a lot less time.

What I particularly dislike about the extreme non-exsistance of the Vvardenfell recipes is that if I want to participate in the house decoration minigame, and if I want to decorate any of the Vvardenfell 4 homes, the game pretty much forces me into either of two nightmares.

One option is to buy everything at the Crown Store. With prices of 750 crowns for a lamp, you can easily see how that is not a valid option. I have already thrown enough money after this game, and I refuse to be strong-armed into throwing even more money after it, with such absurd prices. For 750 crowns, I should be able to buy the recipe itself, not a measly lamp.

The second option is to buy the items from a trader. This isn't an option that appeals to me any more than the first one. Let me tell you the situation on the PC EU server. Taking a look at the popular guild traders, you can see that the same 8-9 people are selling a plethora of the most rare Vvardenfell furnishings. I imagine those 8-9 people had a nice stock of gold coins in the first place, and managed to stock up on many or most of the Vvardenfell recipes before the price took off into the hundreds of thousands and even millions of gold. You will also see that these furnishings are sold with a hefty profit. A Telvanni furnishing that takes materials of less than 2k in total, is sold for 17k at a trader. That's a nice 15k profit. This goes for all the furnishings as well. So my second option would not only deplete my inventory of gold at a fast pace, it would also help the rich getting even richer, while still leaving me with zero opportunity to ever be able to make any of these recipes for myself.

After having spent hours grinding for something that basically does not exist, I am getting to the point of being fed up. I will most likely go back to ignoring the housing feature altogether, and simply do the few dailies I want to do before logging off. There is absolutely no reason to participate in housing as it is now, at least not if you want to decorate one of the Vvardenfell based homes. A choice between being robbed of all my real money, or being robbed of all my gold (and having to spend even more time to get that gold), isn't a choice I want to make.

Seeing as there are new chapters and DLCs coming in 2018, ready for ZOS to milk like they did Morrowind, hasn't the time come to actually make content available to people, such as the Vvardenfell furnishing recipes? I think that those people who wanted to throw tens of thousands of crowns at your cash shop for furnishings have already done so, and the rest of us aren't more likely to do so just because more time goes by. And until something changes, you're either forcing me to spend a godawful lot of time doing things I don't really want to do in this game (logging 9 alts in and out to loot the same containers until my eyes bleed), or simply ignoring this home decoration aspect of your game altogether, which by far looks like the more attractive option.

Not long ago you completely ruined the motif market with the anniversary motif bonanza that basically gave rare and expensive motifs away for little to no effort, as well as giving a huge middle finger to those of us who actually spent the time, gold and effort to obtain those motifs, and after that came the clockwork recipe bonanza, which made sure that many people could get their collection of cwc furnishing recipes for a somewhat reasonable price.
If you refuse to make the Vvardenfell recipes more obtainable in the game, you could at least do some recipe bonanzas with the Vvardenfell recipes, to make sure that anyone collecting them would have a reasonable chance to do so.
I don't think that wanting to craft your own furnishings when and where you need them is such a strange things to ask for.

Also, upping the cost of the Hlaalu documents from 10 to 25 vouchers, and at the same time omitting any Vvardenfell and Clockwork recipes from them, was a pretty [snip] thing to do.

[Edited to remove profanity]

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The housing grind is extremely manageable.

Furniture mats cost almost nothing these days. If you're not after recipes, crafted furniture is extremely cheap on guild traders (5-15k per item for DLC furniture).

It's only a grind if you want to own all recipes (in which case you need to grind for gold, which is the easiest grind in the game).

If by "almost nothing" you mean 56 gold for a mundane rune and 60 gold for a piece of heartwood, and by "almost nothing" you mean needing 12 heartwood, 8 runes, 10 regulus, 15 racial style stones and 3 pieces of purple upgrade mats, also sitting at 350 per item, then sure, you're completely correct. If you had bothered to check, you would also see that the MM price for runes and heartwood, and other furnishing materials, is slowly climbing, and that they are sold out in several of the guild traders, or listed at high prices.

But yes, the material component is at least somewhat manageable, and once again, that's not really what this thread is about, it's about the recipes. You know, like the Morrowind purple recipes that cost 500k to 1M per recipe. How is that "only a grind for gold" in anyone's book? Maybe you have 80-100 M lying about for recipes purchases, but I sincerely doubt many of us do.

Is 10k per furniture your definition of "extremely cheap"? How many do you need for a large house - 400? 500? At least, with a limit of 700 in a manor. That's again 4-5 M or up to 6-7 M solely for decorations. And half of that is profit directly into someone's pocket because they were lucky enough to have managed to get one of these recipes, or because they had enough means and gold to begin with, and bought up these recipes when they were for sale, and now have a fat profit margin off of it.

And while CWC recipes at least are for sale, though expensive, I have seen a grand total of 2 recipes in Telvanni style for sale in all guild stores for the last whole month. And both was for the small footstool. Not a single other Telvanni recipe for sale in any guild store on the PC EU server that I could find. Oh, and those footstool recipes were listed at about 900k.

Same goes for many of the popular rare purple recipes, such as the tapestries and carpets. They're not even for sale any more, no one finds them or sells them.

So maybe drop the charade and stop calling something "extremely manageable" when it is quiite the opposite. Everything is manageable when you're swimming in gold. Unfortunately, many of us don't, and thus have no way to grind for these recipes on our own, which is what this thread is all about.

I furnished my entire large house when heartwood was 500 gold a piece, green furniture (not recipes) was 20k, blue 50k, and purple 100k+. Most of my guild mates decorated their houses at this time. You don't even need a million gold to furnish a house today.

Carbonised · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The housing grind is extremely manageable.

Furniture mats cost almost nothing these days. If you're not after recipes, crafted furniture is extremely cheap on guild traders (5-15k per item for DLC furniture).

It's only a grind if you want to own all recipes (in which case you need to grind for gold, which is the easiest grind in the game).

If by "almost nothing" you mean 56 gold for a mundane rune and 60 gold for a piece of heartwood, and by "almost nothing" you mean needing 12 heartwood, 8 runes, 10 regulus, 15 racial style stones and 3 pieces of purple upgrade mats, also sitting at 350 per item, then sure, you're completely correct. If you had bothered to check, you would also see that the MM price for runes and heartwood, and other furnishing materials, is slowly climbing, and that they are sold out in several of the guild traders, or listed at high prices.

But yes, the material component is at least somewhat manageable, and once again, that's not really what this thread is about, it's about the recipes. You know, like the Morrowind purple recipes that cost 500k to 1M per recipe. How is that "only a grind for gold" in anyone's book? Maybe you have 80-100 M lying about for recipes purchases, but I sincerely doubt many of us do.

Is 10k per furniture your definition of "extremely cheap"? How many do you need for a large house - 400? 500? At least, with a limit of 700 in a manor. That's again 4-5 M or up to 6-7 M solely for decorations. And half of that is profit directly into someone's pocket because they were lucky enough to have managed to get one of these recipes, or because they had enough means and gold to begin with, and bought up these recipes when they were for sale, and now have a fat profit margin off of it.

And while CWC recipes at least are for sale, though expensive, I have seen a grand total of 2 recipes in Telvanni style for sale in all guild stores for the last whole month. And both was for the small footstool. Not a single other Telvanni recipe for sale in any guild store on the PC EU server that I could find. Oh, and those footstool recipes were listed at about 900k.

Same goes for many of the popular rare purple recipes, such as the tapestries and carpets. They're not even for sale any more, no one finds them or sells them.

So maybe drop the charade and stop calling something "extremely manageable" when it is quiite the opposite. Everything is manageable when you're swimming in gold. Unfortunately, many of us don't, and thus have no way to grind for these recipes on our own, which is what this thread is all about.

I furnished my entire large house when heartwood was 500 gold a piece, green furniture (not recipes) was 20k, blue 50k, and purple 100k+. Most of my guild mates decorated their houses at this time. You don't even need a million gold to furnish a house today.

Maybe you could keep a focus on the Morrowind purple recipes, which is what this thread is about.

They have been listed for 500k to 1M each, the few that are actually up for sale.

Normal purples haven't ever been 100k, even the most popular redguard ones sit at 50k-70k max.

You're just throwing out statements without a shred of fact to back it up.

I've already said several times that this isn't about normal purples and furnishing componenets, so maybe stop bringing it up time and time again while derailing the thread.

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The housing grind is extremely manageable.

Furniture mats cost almost nothing these days. If you're not after recipes, crafted furniture is extremely cheap on guild traders (5-15k per item for DLC furniture).

It's only a grind if you want to own all recipes (in which case you need to grind for gold, which is the easiest grind in the game).

If by "almost nothing" you mean 56 gold for a mundane rune and 60 gold for a piece of heartwood, and by "almost nothing" you mean needing 12 heartwood, 8 runes, 10 regulus, 15 racial style stones and 3 pieces of purple upgrade mats, also sitting at 350 per item, then sure, you're completely correct. If you had bothered to check, you would also see that the MM price for runes and heartwood, and other furnishing materials, is slowly climbing, and that they are sold out in several of the guild traders, or listed at high prices.

But yes, the material component is at least somewhat manageable, and once again, that's not really what this thread is about, it's about the recipes. You know, like the Morrowind purple recipes that cost 500k to 1M per recipe. How is that "only a grind for gold" in anyone's book? Maybe you have 80-100 M lying about for recipes purchases, but I sincerely doubt many of us do.

Is 10k per furniture your definition of "extremely cheap"? How many do you need for a large house - 400? 500? At least, with a limit of 700 in a manor. That's again 4-5 M or up to 6-7 M solely for decorations. And half of that is profit directly into someone's pocket because they were lucky enough to have managed to get one of these recipes, or because they had enough means and gold to begin with, and bought up these recipes when they were for sale, and now have a fat profit margin off of it.

And while CWC recipes at least are for sale, though expensive, I have seen a grand total of 2 recipes in Telvanni style for sale in all guild stores for the last whole month. And both was for the small footstool. Not a single other Telvanni recipe for sale in any guild store on the PC EU server that I could find. Oh, and those footstool recipes were listed at about 900k.

Same goes for many of the popular rare purple recipes, such as the tapestries and carpets. They're not even for sale any more, no one finds them or sells them.

So maybe drop the charade and stop calling something "extremely manageable" when it is quiite the opposite. Everything is manageable when you're swimming in gold. Unfortunately, many of us don't, and thus have no way to grind for these recipes on our own, which is what this thread is all about.

I furnished my entire large house when heartwood was 500 gold a piece, green furniture (not recipes) was 20k, blue 50k, and purple 100k+. Most of my guild mates decorated their houses at this time. You don't even need a million gold to furnish a house today.

Maybe you could keep a focus on the Morrowind purple recipes, which is what this thread is about.

They have been listed for 500k to 1M each, the few that are actually up for sale.

Normal purples haven't ever been 100k, even the most popular redguard ones sit at 50k-70k max.

You're just throwing out statements without a shred of fact to back it up.

I've already said several times that this isn't about normal purples and furnishing componenets, so maybe stop bringing it up time and time again while derailing the thread.

Regular purples were 100k+ when housing came out.

And why do you need Morrowind recipes? You can just buy the furniture from players who have them. The furniture itself sells for 5-20k.

Carbonised · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The housing grind is extremely manageable.

Furniture mats cost almost nothing these days. If you're not after recipes, crafted furniture is extremely cheap on guild traders (5-15k per item for DLC furniture).

It's only a grind if you want to own all recipes (in which case you need to grind for gold, which is the easiest grind in the game).

If by "almost nothing" you mean 56 gold for a mundane rune and 60 gold for a piece of heartwood, and by "almost nothing" you mean needing 12 heartwood, 8 runes, 10 regulus, 15 racial style stones and 3 pieces of purple upgrade mats, also sitting at 350 per item, then sure, you're completely correct. If you had bothered to check, you would also see that the MM price for runes and heartwood, and other furnishing materials, is slowly climbing, and that they are sold out in several of the guild traders, or listed at high prices.

But yes, the material component is at least somewhat manageable, and once again, that's not really what this thread is about, it's about the recipes. You know, like the Morrowind purple recipes that cost 500k to 1M per recipe. How is that "only a grind for gold" in anyone's book? Maybe you have 80-100 M lying about for recipes purchases, but I sincerely doubt many of us do.

Is 10k per furniture your definition of "extremely cheap"? How many do you need for a large house - 400? 500? At least, with a limit of 700 in a manor. That's again 4-5 M or up to 6-7 M solely for decorations. And half of that is profit directly into someone's pocket because they were lucky enough to have managed to get one of these recipes, or because they had enough means and gold to begin with, and bought up these recipes when they were for sale, and now have a fat profit margin off of it.

And while CWC recipes at least are for sale, though expensive, I have seen a grand total of 2 recipes in Telvanni style for sale in all guild stores for the last whole month. And both was for the small footstool. Not a single other Telvanni recipe for sale in any guild store on the PC EU server that I could find. Oh, and those footstool recipes were listed at about 900k.

Same goes for many of the popular rare purple recipes, such as the tapestries and carpets. They're not even for sale any more, no one finds them or sells them.

So maybe drop the charade and stop calling something "extremely manageable" when it is quiite the opposite. Everything is manageable when you're swimming in gold. Unfortunately, many of us don't, and thus have no way to grind for these recipes on our own, which is what this thread is all about.

I furnished my entire large house when heartwood was 500 gold a piece, green furniture (not recipes) was 20k, blue 50k, and purple 100k+. Most of my guild mates decorated their houses at this time. You don't even need a million gold to furnish a house today.

Maybe you could keep a focus on the Morrowind purple recipes, which is what this thread is about.

They have been listed for 500k to 1M each, the few that are actually up for sale.

Normal purples haven't ever been 100k, even the most popular redguard ones sit at 50k-70k max.

You're just throwing out statements without a shred of fact to back it up.

I've already said several times that this isn't about normal purples and furnishing componenets, so maybe stop bringing it up time and time again while derailing the thread.

Regular purples were 100k+ when housing came out.

And why do you need Morrowind recipes? You can just buy the furniture from players who have them. The furniture itself sells for 5-20k.

Not true. I have every purple recipe already, minus a few redguard ones (not counting clockwork and morrowind ones), and I can assure you I paid nothing even close to 100k for them.
In fact, purples cost a lot less back then because you could get the purple documents from Hlaalu for only 10 vouchers.

Also, I think you're on another server than PC EU, for you keep referring to prices that are completely different on the PC server.
And as to your question about why I don't buy them from traders, I have answered that literally 4 posts above yours:

The second option is to buy the items from a trader. This isn't an option that appeals to me any more than the first one. Let me tell you the situation on the PC EU server. Taking a look at the popular guild traders, you can see that the same 8-9 people are selling a plethora of the most rare Vvardenfell furnishings. I imagine those 8-9 people had a nice stock of gold coins in the first place, and managed to stock up on many or most of the Vvardenfell recipes before the price took off into the hundreds of thousands and even millions of gold. You will also see that these furnishings are sold with a hefty profit. A Telvanni furnishing that takes materials of less than 2k in total, is sold for 17k at a trader. That's a nice 15k profit. This goes for all the furnishings as well. So my second option would not only deplete my inventory of gold at a fast pace, it would also help the rich getting even richer, while still leaving me with zero opportunity to ever be able to make any of these recipes for myself.

I don't think that wanting to craft your own furnishings when and where you need them is such a strange things to ask for.

Let me ask a question of you instead, why is it unreasonable to ask that
1) Hlaalu documents include ALL recipes in their loottable, instead of exclusing specifically Vvardenfell and Clockwork ones
2) Vvardenfell containers and NPC loottables do not have 9 normal base game recipes for every 1 Vvardenfell one, but instead half of each, or an overweight of the zone appropriate recipes

I have yet to see a single argument in favor of keeping the current scarcity, other than "I like making gold off of someone else's misfortune".

angelncelestine · January 2018

At this point I wouldn’t even care if I had to pay 100 writ vouchers to get blueprints from the Hlaalu merchant. This would at least give a person a reasonable way of collecting them. The higher writ value would also keep the market on them high, and ZOS would still make a profit from the crown store.

Carbonised · January 2018

angelncelestine wrote: »

At this point I wouldn’t even care if I had to pay 100 writ vouchers to get blueprints from the Hlaalu merchant. This would at least give a person a reasonable way of collecting them. The higher writ value would also keep the market on them high, and ZOS would still make a profit from the crown store.

To purposely exclude the recipes from the Hlaalu documents in order to raise store sales is just a really shady and [snip] move from ZOS.

They're really going out of their way to keep these recipes from the game. Not fun, and not ok at all.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Carbonised · January 2018

From the PTS patch notes: "Additionally, Rolis Hlaalu has a new assistant: Faustina Curio, the Achievement Mediator. This new merchant sells plans and furnishings for Writ Vouchers to characters that have attained certain achievements. Among these items are plans that Rolis previously stopped selling, as well as new furnishing documents that contain Morrowind furnishing plans."

F*ing yes.

CooksWithoutARecipe · January 2018

I do agree that the drop rate on furnishing plans is atrocious, but I actually don't mind that they consume a goodly chunk of resources.

Consumption of resources benefits the game economy. There needs to be good ways to get rid of stuff, otherwise everything becomes worthless. See also: clothing mats dropping in value because of leather botting.