If enforcers come into the game then sneak will need to work in pve against other players I.e. we will not be able to see those who are sneaking. Otherwise it won't work.

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I can't wait to camp strongboxes and the entrances to hideouts with my v14 DK
Defiantly going to be an enforcer

Perfect example of why any PVP aspect outside of Cyrodil needs to be optional.

Ha! Optional? No way!
Maybe you shouldn't steal things or do anything thievery related and you won't face the wrath of my talons and flame lash

Talons and flame lash? next youll say you use flappy flappy too brian.

I don't understand the concerns. If you don't want to be "griefed", don't get caught stealing, trespassing or killing. That's what a good outlaw should do, anyway.

Plus, I don't see how invincible guards are better than killable players. If anything, this would be an improvement for outlaws.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

If enforcers come into the game then sneak will need to work in pve against other players I.e. we will not be able to see those who are sneaking. Otherwise it won't work.

No, it's still just NPCs who can witness and report a crime. If the merchant in the shop doesn't see you breaking the lockbox, the enforcer can't do anything.

a somewhat simple solution:
For the areas in the Cadwell quest, no pc enforcers, but for the Craglorn, Cyrodill and Coldharbor you would have the pc enforcer.

Even perhaps create a city which is really well off in the gold and rare items so it entices players to want to steal?

This way, people can still skill up, get some thieving with only the npc guards to worry about, pretty much what it is today.
Then when its ready, they can set up the end game cities, with some better loot and the consequences to match.

Just a thought, not sure if it's been mentioned yet. Perhaps the PvP part of Justice could be "reversed". By this I mean that players can opt in to witness crime. Criminals, in this instance, would have the option to try and kill the witness player if caught red-handed. Shifts the initiative for actual fighting to the criminal.

Ourorboros wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I can't wait to camp strongboxes and the entrances to hideouts with my v14 DK
Defiantly going to be an enforcer

Perfect example of why any PVP aspect outside of Cyrodil needs to be optional.

It would be optional. You are choosing to involve yourself in it with the Justice system by stealing and murdering villagers.

I can't wait for the Enforcer part of the Justice system to arrive... it'll create a lot of great spontaneous gameplay and make it actually possible to lose your haul when stealing. Right now unless you purposefully are ridiculously careless and half asleep *cough*I never did that at 3am and then jumped off a 50 foot cliff without looking and died of fall damage instead of going down a ramp that was right there after going straight into a town out of sheer laziness*cough* you would have a higher chance of winning the lottery jackpot in real life than dying/getting caught by the NPC guards.

Once we can toss on Enforcer tabards and thus act as guards, collecting say 1/2 of the bounty the player would normally pay to the NPC as our reward for catching villainous scum (coming out of the thief's pockets, of course, automatically as though they'd been caught by an NPC guard) , it'll be an actual risk , not to mention actual fun!

Keepercraft wrote: »

Do you remember waiting for Dark Brotherhood Update?

No?

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I can't wait to camp strongboxes and the entrances to hideouts with my v14 DK
Defiantly going to be an enforcer

Perfect example of why any PVP aspect outside of Cyrodil needs to be optional.

It would be optional. You are choosing to involve yourself in it with the Justice system by stealing and murdering villagers.

I can't wait for the Enforcer part of the Justice system to arrive... it'll create a lot of great spontaneous gameplay and make it actually possible to lose your haul when stealing. Right now unless you purposefully are ridiculously careless and half asleep *cough*I never did that at 3am and then jumped off a 50 foot cliff without looking and died of fall damage instead of going down a ramp that was right there after going straight into a town out of sheer laziness*cough* you would have a higher chance of winning the lottery jackpot in real life than dying/getting caught by the NPC guards.

Once we can toss on Enforcer tabards and thus act as guards, collecting say 1/2 of the bounty the player would normally pay to the NPC as our reward for catching villainous scum (coming out of the thief's pockets, of course, automatically as though they'd been caught by an NPC guard) , it'll be an actual risk , not to mention actual fun!

Would you want to discourage people from participating in the Justice system at all though? If PvP was automatically enabled against Fugitive criminals, without them having the option to opt-out of it and only be killed by PvE guards, that may discourage them from participating in Justice and becoming murderers at all.

...
... ... ...
...

On second thought, yes. Do it. What better discouragement for evildoers who go around murdering everyone than the prospect of being brought to justice by someone who can actually keep up with an escapee. (Those guards may be invincible, but they aren't very fast.)

my bet is never.
they run into balance problems not only regarding the pvp component but aswell economy issues. so i hardly doubt it will be relesed before the game will be shut down.

From all the threads I've read about this, it seems the fears people have could easily be taken care of by making PvP part of the JS actually dynamic and challenging. The following is just an outline off the top of my head:

• Bottlenecks and trade-offs: Anyone can become a thief at any time, but not everyone can become an Enforcer right away. Becoming a full-blown Enforcer capable of killing other players should be accomplished through stages (or "degrees") that reflect a player's choices for their characters. Perhaps you can get an invitation to start training as an Enforcer from completing certain quests and achievements where you solve disputes or hunt down criminals (ZOS, I know you're allergic to it for some reason, but you'd definitely have to backcredit people for this...). Enlisting as a newbie Enforcer would immediately prohibit you from accessing Legerdemain skill line. At a certain point, as you become less morally ambiguous, gaining further Enforcer abilities would also necessitate not being a Vampire or Werewolf. Future content, such as the Thieves Guild (but not Dark Brotherhood, because Enforcers are just one type of assassin), could also be prohibited at some stages. If you steal or kill NPCs while an Enforcer, you would be demoted and punished more harshly than the common thief. The ability to kill players would only be available for full-rank Enforcers who have demonstrated their commitment to law and order.
• Becoming flagged as PvP-able: Simply picking a lockbox SHOULD NOT instantly flag you as player enemy. How boring and unfair is that? The flaws are readily apparent as people are voicing in this thread. Rather, some kind of system based on the size of one's bounty and heat should be what flags you as a PvP target. For example, a bounty of 5k could be the cut-off. Anything below that and you cannot be killed by players, but once you cross that threshold then be ready for the potential consequences. But, no matter your bounty, if you become notorious then you better hide out until your heat goes down. Or there could be some other method to weigh notoriety and bounty that would flag players as PvP-able, that was just one quick example. Or, it could be that murder is the only violation that can incur death from another player.
• Types of PvP interaction: If killing another player is reserved for highest ranking Enforcers, then there should be other ways to enforce the law. Let's say early on as an Enforcer, your only power is acting as a kind of watchman; that is, you can use an ability or interactable (e.g. "Press E") to "report" players who are currently in the act of stealing valuable items (not simply food or other low value items). Reporting thieves could come through a passive or active ability, so the higher your skill, the quicker the guard comes, and if the guards apprehends the suspect, you get a cut of the bounty and confiscated loot value. However, when a lowbie Enforcer reports someone, it plays a distinct sound (e.g. a whistle or horn blowing) and the thief get a pop-up "you've been reported!" under their stealth reticule so the thief has time to try and finish the job and maybe risk getting caught, or just run away before the guard comes. Guards would just come to the spot of the report, and leave after catching the thief or poking around for 10 seconds or so.

Anyways, just spit balling here. Moral of the story if there are interesting ways to both mitigate griefing and create a dynamic system.

RealRobD wrote: »

Way too many negative hurdles (griefing for one) to over come before it would be a nice addition.

See my post right above yours.

Hey @Enodoc ... There might not be a justice system in Cyrodil yet, but I dare say there will be before long. As for opting out of the system, that isn't really viable. I still need a lot of motifs, and looting towns is the best way to get them. Recipes and lockpicks and ingredients are all most easily found this way. So opting out, unless I want hand over 20000+ for purple motif books, isn't an option at all really.

I saw someone suggest enforcers in Craglorn. That's not a bad idea. Group raids on towns, and maybe the odd posse to bring them to justice. Could be fun.

Rumba1 wrote: »

Picture this:

If you wish to be an enforcer you go to the head office of the zone guards say Daggerfall in Glenumbra.
There you become deputized to apprehend criminals.

Thereafter whenever a criminal within 2 levels of you uses a wayshrine to enter territory, you get a notice:

"So-and-So, known murderer has entered Glenumbra at wayshrine such-and-such. You are authorized to apprehend this criminal and bring them to justice."

Rewards in gold would be similar to bounty level.

You would of course probably have multiple criminals in your area that you are authorized to apprehend.

Thus no thief would face too difficult an opponent and no deputy would face too difficult a thief/murderer.

no camping out at lockboxes because, the deputy is required to have authorization to apprehend.
camping out at thief hideouts would probably be not very productive, (because you still need to be within 2 levels and authorized) but you never know, plus it might add a little spice to the thief's game.

This is actually an amazing idea, I can't think of a better soloution