Maintenance for the week of December 2:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)

Dual Wielding Sorcerer, how does it work?

Valmond
Valmond
✭✭✭

So, i decided to try out dual wielding with my sorcerer.
And no matter how i try, i just can't make it work.
Anyone got hints ot tricks how to make a low health dual wield build work (would prefer not to put more points to health because i want to be able to switch to mage build at moments notice)

I'm vr9, with 20/9/20 magicka/health/stamina build, using full medium armor (stamina enchants) and two green swords with flame enchants (armor not traited, swords have +3% speed).
I have 1425 health (low, i know), 1972 stamina and 88 stamina regen.

I have all passives from dual wield (skill 50), and all actives morphed
Blood Craze (self heal)
Blinding Fury (4% change per hit to snare)
Steel Tornado (larger area)
Ember Explosion (aoe+debuff)
Flying Blade (snare)

I have the medium armor (skill 28 for now) active morphed to elude.

Using 1. Blood Craze, 2. Steel Tornado, 3. Ember Explosion, 4. Elude and 5. Critical Surge as my actives (feeding swarm ultimate from vampire).

Fighting against one opponent, i have no problems, i usually can take them down fast enough to not die, two melee's might be doable.
Bring in an archer or caster and i die almost instantly.
  • Sorpaijen_ESO
    Sorpaijen_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    I have no where NEAR your level, but I have to wonder if there are other skills you could choose, or other morphs that don't involve snares. Usually if it offers a snare, the ability / morph doesn't offer something that the other ability/morph offers, and for a melee fighter, I've never really seen much use in a snare (non-PvP of course).

    Also, just because you're dual wielding doesn't mean you can't mix in Lightning Form or Bound Armor or some other more defensive ability...

    Unfortunately, I've heard that health is the be-all, end-all in the late game and I've even found myself investing more points in health at the lower levels just because I feel I NEED the extra cushion --- dying with plenty of magicka and stamina left to burn told me that I had to boost my health and/or armor some....
  • Ulvich
    Ulvich
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a VR1 sorcerer with a rather strange build, but it seems to work well for me. My sorcerer is in full plate with traits such as "Impenetrable" and "Reinforced").
    I am using two axes with frost enchants and the weapon speed trait (weighted).
    My points are set as: 15 - 19 - 15. They seem a bit off right now, and I do plan to adjust them later.
    My primary action bar is set up as melee. I use Silver Bolts, Blood Craze, Rapid Strike, Twilight Matriarch IV (for support and healing), and Thundering Presence. I also use Charged Atonarch IV for when things get crazy. I did not morph the Silver Bolts.
    For my second action bar I use a staff and all the typical sorcerer abilities. This gives me the ability to switch from caster to melee (or back) if needed. For example if I run low on stamina I can switch and fight with a full bar of magicka. Of if I am fighting as a caster and something charges at me I can switch to melee.
    I gave both action bars an ability to attack from a distance or up close.
    Edited by Ulvich on 28 April 2014 15:03
    - Monster Slayer
    - Savior of Nirn
    - Adventurer Across a Decade
    - Hit Hard. Hit Fast. Hit Often
    - BETA Group: 85 b 9
  • Crescent
    Crescent
    ✭✭✭✭
    Don't waste yout point on plate or rapid strikes, they're a waste.

    Go 7/7 leather, spec into Thief Stone, and you're looking at around 32% crit chance with melee.

    First bar is Blood Craze, Ember Explosion, Steel Tornado or Flying Blade, Critical Surge, and Thundering Presence. Your ultimate for that bar is Flawless dawnbreaker for the passive 13% increase to weapon attacks.

    As a dual wielding crit based sorcerer, you use light attacks. Heavy attacks mostly for mobs out of balance to knock them down. The more attacks you get in, the more event possibilities to crit and get some health returns.

    Second bar is up to you, either 1h/shield for armor debuff and charge and defensive posture, etc, or restoration staff with heals and make sure to slot in mage's fury for a magicka based execute.

    Get 1900 health at least ASAP and balance your magicka and stamina because you'll be using both, with a slight emphasis on stamina.
  • Pyatra
    Pyatra
    ✭✭✭
    Rune Prison, if CC affects the mob it's a 17 second time out. Use it as your opener to disable one of the mobs. Remember, you can't hit them or they become unstuck. So Rune Prison... other mobs start running at you. Also I will agree a little more balancing towards health would be good. A sorc's bread and butter is that a lot of what they have is CC or survivability (unfortunately usually takes up a slot for an active though). But there are several options for CC so there is a little something that can fit into any build.

    I'm only VR2 right now so a lot on my bars are trash until I can morp them. I respec'ed away from destroy staff so still building other weapon levels up.
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is it worth trying to work in a Dark Magic spell for Exploitation? What about using a two-hander in the second bar for Momentum?
  • EaglePursuit
    EaglePursuit
    Soul Shriven
    I'm just a noob with a low level Dual Wield sorc, but I've had success with Lightning Form. I use a class ranged attack to pull an enemy, then I hit Lightning Form and stab stab stab. I don't know how well this will work at higher levels.
  • Crescent
    Crescent
    ✭✭✭✭
    Is it worth trying to work in a Dark Magic spell for Exploitation? What about using a two-hander in the second bar for Momentum?

    You'll be over the soft cap with momentum and surge, so it's not that ideal to waste a weaponskill.

    And the issue with exploitation is you need the morphed encase with the snare, and encase costs a metric ton of mana which can cut into your essential thundering presence and critical surge uptimes. And encase doesn't work against bosses, and snares dont even work on some types of mobs.
  • Niminion
    Niminion
    ✭✭✭
    I've been using DW as a VR1 sorc, here is my set up.

    7/7 Medium 5 stam 1 health 1 magika, stam cost reduction jewelry, Thief stone, Mag/Stam food, Dual Daggers, Balanced attributes.

    Flying Blade, Blood Craze, Whirling Blades, Hardened Ward, Critical Surge, Ulti is Absorbtion Field. Swap in Heated Blades for certain situations, like undead (blood craze immune) or very tough melee mobs.

    I really like hardened ward over bound armor because the shield gives me the ability to stay in combat even at low health to proc surge and recover my health. It is cheap enough to use multiple times in a fight while keeping surge up and it is a fairly large shield mine is ~700 I think. I can take mixed groups of 3 and bosses just fine. Anything more I use Absorbtion Field.

    Absorbtion field is fantastic for when things go bad or just great for wiping large groups or stopping a tough mob for 10 seconds to recover. It turns on both ruffian and exploitation.


    EDIT
    I thought I would add that Flying Blade is your main dps attack, even in melee range though it feels weird, if have the stamina you want to throw blades at them. The damage to stamina ratio is excellent and the snare allows you to kite when needed and the range helps kill an archer/caster with out having to run to them while taking more damage.

    Keep Surge up, keep Blood Craze up, spam Flying Blade, use ward as needed, finish with Whirling Blades, switch to heavy attack clipping with light attacks when conserving stamina. To clip, when you start the second grunt while using heavy attack spam light attack, you can then clip the light attack with an ability and clip that with bash if you wish.


    Edited by Niminion on 30 April 2014 15:32
  • feniks31_ESO
    feniks31_ESO
    ✭✭
    Niminion wrote: »
    I thought I would add that Flying Blade is your main dps attack, even in melee range though it feels weird, if have the stamina you want to throw blades at them. The damage to stamina ratio is excellent
    Nope. Best dps ability is Flurry and best dmg/stama ability is Twin Slash. There is no a single reason to use Hidden Blade
  • Crescent
    Crescent
    ✭✭✭✭
    Niminion wrote: »
    I thought I would add that Flying Blade is your main dps attack, even in melee range though it feels weird, if have the stamina you want to throw blades at them. The damage to stamina ratio is excellent
    Nope. Best dps ability is Flurry and best dmg/stama ability is Twin Slash. There is no a single reason to use Hidden Blade

    LOL, you must be trolling.
  • feniks31_ESO
    feniks31_ESO
    ✭✭
    Crescent wrote: »
    Niminion wrote: »
    I thought I would add that Flying Blade is your main dps attack, even in melee range though it feels weird, if have the stamina you want to throw blades at them. The damage to stamina ratio is excellent
    Nope. Best dps ability is Flurry and best dmg/stama ability is Twin Slash. There is no a single reason to use Hidden Blade

    LOL, you must be trolling.
    just do some calculations yourself...
  • Zanzu
    Zanzu
    Flying blade is just a ranged snare with some damage, it isn't meant to be spammed so you can do ranged damage with daggers it's meant to close gaps. Twin slash is the best DMG:Stamina ratio if you calculate it out, also if you want to be in people's faces then why roll with such low health? You have to be up close to deal your best damage so if you can't take some hits you're not doing damage. Either need crowd control or better healing at that kind of health (Health is almost as low as my level 37 templar who's full cloth and max magicka, barely any points into it.) That's just common sense.. unless you've someone taking the damage for you it would never work.
  • Crescent
    Crescent
    ✭✭✭✭
    Crescent wrote: »
    Niminion wrote: »
    I thought I would add that Flying Blade is your main dps attack, even in melee range though it feels weird, if have the stamina you want to throw blades at them. The damage to stamina ratio is excellent
    Nope. Best dps ability is Flurry and best dmg/stama ability is Twin Slash. There is no a single reason to use Hidden Blade

    LOL, you must be trolling.
    just do some calculations yourself...


    I and several others have done it. You're wrong.
  • Iceman_mat
    Iceman_mat
    ✭✭✭
    You attack the enemy, with your swords and magic.



    -Cheers
  • Shayu
    Shayu
    ✭✭✭
    You kidding? Hidden blade is the highest dps spell in the tree. Sparks does little to no damage depending on if it's morphed, whirlwind is useless for single target DPS, I'm sure this much is obvious. But here is why hidden blade gets you the most raw DPS.

    Pseudo-Cooldowns.

    Flurry- High damage, great bang for your buck, but it has a channel time and the real hard hitting attack comes at the end. You can get more raw DPS via spamming hidden blade, whether that's what it's intended for or not.

    Twin Slashes- An absolutely energy efficient attack, and good damage too, but it's weakness is in it's DoT. It's DoT overwrites itself every time it hits, it doesn't stack, therefore it loses a lot of value if you spam it. Hidden Blade spam, while worlds more expensive, vastly outclasses twin slashes in terms of DPS.

    Don't get me wrong though, you'll get MUCH better damage for the stamina you spend on both Flurry and Twin Slashes, but their pseudo-cooldowns keep you from efficiently spamming them. If you're going for a max stamina build, Hidden Blade brings the most DPS to the table, the range and the snare is just a bonus.
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Didnt they just nerf hidden blade's stamina cost? I'd have to go read patch notes again.
  • Shayu
    Shayu
    ✭✭✭
    I don't think so, I didn't see anything in the patch notes. Even if they did nerf Hidden Blade's stamina cost that'd be the least painful place to hit it if you really build your class around maxing out your stamina. They're not going to be able to prevent Hidden Blade spam via raising the cost unless they raise it to the point where the ability becomes completely unusable to everyone who doesn't max their stamina.

    To prevent Hidden blade spam they'd need to give it a cast time. But if they're going to do that they really need to buff up the rest of the duel wield tree to compensate. For me hidden blade, and in certain situations, sparks, is the only thing that makes the duel wielding tree worthwhile.
  • freche
    freche
    Just a question. Do you play your magic builds in the same medium armor or do you have a separate armor setup for that. Spend more ability points in health and regulate mag/sta with different gear setups.
  • kelebra
    kelebra
    ✭✭
    Flurry has already been tested and proven to be the same dps of spamming light attacks. Do to the heavy attack animation cancel exploit it's better dps to not use flurry.
  • Gisgo
    Gisgo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    kelebra wrote: »
    Flurry has already been tested and proven to be the same dps of spamming light attacks. Do to the heavy attack animation cancel exploit it's better dps to not use flurry.

    I know "it has been tested" but i also play the game and blinding flurry does much more damage than spamming light attacks.

  • Crescent
    Crescent
    ✭✭✭✭
    And you don't spam light attacks unless you are a noob, is the problem.

    And most importantly good luck realizing after you've researched most medium armor to 8 traits that melee sorcerer sucks compared to caster sorcerer and it'll be a long time before that gets fixed since everybody is complaining about bolt escape right after dark talons.

    I've had to start over with light armor at 1-2 traits researched... and even without the set bonuses it's light years ahead of melee sorcerer. Melee sorcerer is BAD.

    All you do is spam heavy attack chain with bound armaments or spam flying blade for lower DPS than casters. And you have no good AoE and you have to constantly move out of lethal zones bosses like to spam on melee, losing uptime and thus doing way less DPS than a caster sorcerer.

    But have fun wasting your skill points if that's what you want to do. The DK and NB class have MUCH better tools for a melee playstyle than a sorcerer ever will (they basically just have surge and that's it).
    Edited by Crescent on 16 May 2014 03:46
  • kelebra
    kelebra
    ✭✭
    Pretty much what crescent said.
  • Erock25
    Erock25
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Crescent wrote: »
    And you don't spam light attacks unless you are a noob, is the problem.

    And most importantly good luck realizing after you've researched most medium armor to 8 traits that melee sorcerer sucks compared to caster sorcerer and it'll be a long time before that gets fixed since everybody is complaining about bolt escape right after dark talons.

    I've had to start over with light armor at 1-2 traits researched... and even without the set bonuses it's light years ahead of melee sorcerer. Melee sorcerer is BAD.

    All you do is spam heavy attack chain with bound armaments or spam flying blade for lower DPS than casters. And you have no good AoE and you have to constantly move out of lethal zones bosses like to spam on melee, losing uptime and thus doing way less DPS than a caster sorcerer.

    But have fun wasting your skill points if that's what you want to do. The DK and NB class have MUCH better tools for a melee playstyle than a sorcerer ever will (they basically just have surge and that's it).

    100% true unfortunately. What I wouldn't give to be able to switch my sorc from Khajit to Altmer.
    You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
    You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm having fun on my melee Sorcorer /shrug

    If it's not viable by the time I reach end game, and if I even care about that, then I'll just respec to a caster build.
  • dc1509
    dc1509
    ✭✭
    Leveled my sorc 12-50 in full plate + 2h (mostly swords, I like big swords), fully enjoyable playtime. for the V+ content I have respecced to the destro/healing staff + light armor. So, while using the 2h weapons, my bar contained the lighting pool and armor abilities almost always, +weapon damage and charge, as well as the front cleave ability of the 2h (with the shield morph) ... sorry don't remember the exact names, I'm at work now.

    This build worked fine for me all the way up to v1, including easy killing of the 3+ groups of mobs. single target charge, go back and charge again, good damage combo :smile:

    Anyway, find something that fits for your playstyle and you'll be just fine.

    I haven't tried the duel wield yet, looking for the possible build for my sorc to check it out.

    Good luck

    Edited by dc1509 on 16 May 2014 17:04
    truth is born in disputes
  • Habbal
    Habbal
    Does anybody have a nice dw sorc build for 2.0?
  • Jar_Ek
    Jar_Ek
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok.. the simple answer is no there isn't really one.
    The complex answer is that DW has very limited survivability options and as critical surge is now a very unreliable heal, especially for group fights, it is not wise to rely on it. Thus you need to find other survival tools...
    One of the best for melee stamina builds is Rally from the 2h line. This can go on your off bar - but be prepared to switch and fight as a 2h style if you need to heal a lot.

    Ok so the basics are that you need some magicka to run skills as the costs are high. Just enough to run T.Presence and keep L.Lightning up. The rest is health and stamina. Armour is mostly medium (5pc+). Sets depends on what your doing most of the time, but for a simple setup run Hundlings and Ashen Grip.
    Skills: Bone shield, Whirling blades, Liquid lightning, Blade cloak, Thundering presence, Evil hunter, rally, brawler/wrecking blow. After that it depends on your preferences. Bound armaments is an option, as is a pet, or some ranged or gap closers.

    The key to this is bone shield which you want up pretty much full time, and it scales off health not stamina or magicka. That will keep you alive in mob group fights, Rally you want ticking, plus its a damage buff. If your fighting groups brawler will also give a decent damage shield as it scales off number of targets. DW is best used as an aoe execute.
    For single target fights, you may want to change to flurry or flying blade.

    However this is not a trials optimised build, it's a fun sorcere. melee build. It is possible to be effective in trials, but you might end up using more 2h (wrecking blow) as it is easier to get high damage.
  • exiledtyrant
    exiledtyrant
    ✭✭✭
    I have actually been playing a hybrid that I tested on PTS with and then began leveling for my sorceror. I started out as sword and shield but I've have since moves it to dual wield.

    Stats are 21 mag, 20 health, 21 stam. As you get more CP you can slowly move points out of health if you want. Mundus stone is the Atronach so you don't run out of mana combined with absorb magicka glyphs.

    Skills seen here:
    http://www.esohead.com/calculator/skills#1.mMMXtv0VMIkI08w2lm8Niqz8AIP18w2Ct8A4hI8NUod8hesE8heaf8AISW8AIPq8A4hI8NUod8t7GrsgW6rsg16LsgY8v7CranW6LanS8H7mLzwM8J7XLziD8K7xrzuj6rzuI6rzun8O7MrdeF8zV7zzeCp48zf7zzNbo8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

    For open world pve and pvp I would use encase to give all my dual wield attacks 15% extra damage for 6 seconds. For dungeons runs I would swap out encase for daedric curse or deadly cloak.

    The first bar is the attack bar. All damage abilties need to be here so that you do the most damage from having 2 weapon bonuses. The second bar is the utility bar that the switch to buff and heal and then switch back. Heals are bigger when you switch back as well. Flurry is the main single target although you can combine it with daedric curse for more damage. Always combine these with liquid lightning. Aoe is whirlwind + liquid lightning which go very well together. Encase boost dual wiled damage by 15% for up to 6 seconds because of ruffian.

    Quick siphon + rapid regen go great together and supply a multitude of heals. At VR 1 I can already heal for 600+ a non crit regen and siphon. AT VR 14 this should be more like 1k+ healing per second + 1k+siphons. Because the build has so many hits going off at once quick siphon procs multiple times per second. These 2 heals + surge heal make for a nice 20 second window of large healing.

    Gear set up looks like this:

    Ashen grip :
    Med - Boots – health - nirncrux
    Med - Waist – health - nirncrux
    Med - Shoulders – health – nirncrux
    Med - Gloves – health - nirncfrux
    Torug pact:
    Weapon – powered – absorb magicka
    Weapon – powered – shock
    Med - Legs – health - reinforced
    Heavy - Helm – health - reinforced
    Heavy - Chest – health - reinforced
    Light of cyrodil:
    Ring
    Ring
    Basic piece:
    Neck – magic – magic regen

    supplies 2800 health, 4% critical, and 358 weapon and spell power in legendary gear. With powered weapons you can proc each weapon glyph once per second. So basically 200-300 extra magicka and 900 damage a second from glyphs. If your magicka regen is high enough as is you can swpa them out for fire+ poison or irresistible for even more damage.

    If nirncrux is to pricey just make it all reinforced.
    After more CP is gained you can start using divines and switch the mundus stone to the mage. You could also swap out the health for 3 stamina on big pieces and 4 magicka on small pieces.

    Final stats on a Vet 14 with with all legendary gear and food buff should be 18-20k maigcka. 18-20k stamina. 22-23k health. 2000 spell power(2400+ with surge). 2000 weapon power (2400+ with surge). 20000-22000(thundering presence) armor / spell resist. 20% spell crit. 20% weapon crit. 800 stam regen. 700 health regen. 950-1000 magicka regen.

    CP just makes things better at that point with an overall power spike for the build happening around 180 cp invested.
    I'm still testing things but I'll do a bigger write up when i hit vr 14 and get geared in atleast blue crafted gear.

    Edited by exiledtyrant on 21 March 2015 00:57
    If all are brethren
    How could my hands not tremble
    As breath fled my prey?

    What blinds my vision?
    My hands are tools; it must be
    The haze of blossoms

    -Salous the Penitent
Sign In or Register to comment.