Well, as to your first issue, nignhtblade does not mean rogue. Sure it has better stealth synergy than other classes, but it's functionality is not restricted to stealth and assassination. Some nightblades play a shadowknight/dreadknight/deathnight character, and some play a warlock/bloodmage. Those are really just two examples... But the heavy armor synergy is designed for Nightblade tanks. What seems weird to me is that people try to stereotype the classes like this, but that's traditional roles I guess...

As to the second, yes, it's annoying. It could certainly be changed.

Agree - sound is annoying.

But I'd also add the new animation and...coloring. Does no one else think they are bad? I liked 'slipping into shadow' before - but now my character looks like she's covered in oil. It's too much, looks awful. And the animation...why is it so, for lack of a better word, gimpy? All lopsided and odd - one hand and knee practically dragging on the ground. I told my guildmates last night: if only we had a gorilla mask - it would totally work - we could all RP our favorite primates.

I haven't paid attention to that yet @curlyqloub14_ESO but I'll watch out for it... But I'll more then likely have my eyes close in pain listening to the last dying barks of Lassie as I go into sneak mode.

@Hawke I was going to say something like that... But I thought we could be entering into dangerous territory and I do have a hidden agenda with this thread

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

It's nothing to do with stereotyping. Shadow Barrier... I cast a spell that makes me invisible... Doesn't cast an aura of no sound, the heavy armour is going clunk clunk clunk.

But that is stereotyping. Cloak is not the only ability that activates Shadow Barrier. And its not the only ability in the shadow line. With the duration of Shadow Barrier working with heavy armor, by design I may add, wouldn't you think that heavy armor is intended for the class at least in some instances? No? ok then.

As for your examples. Well when any class splinters off from the main class they develop their own set of skills usually making a hybrid of the skills between the two classes you are combining. However, officially the Night Blades is the assassin class of Elder Scrolls. So my argument still stands that not many successful assassins go stomping around in full plate armour as assassins are traditionally associated with stealth and the words "full plate mail" and "stealth" have never really fitted well together.

The Assassin is the assassin of the Elder Scrolls http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin

The Nightblade is the magica version of that http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Nightblade_(Oblivion)

But you are right, assassins usually are not associated with heavy armor. So then why did they redesign abilities around heavy armor? Oh yea... nightblades in eso are not traditional Elder Scrolls nightblades. So my argument stands that nightblade does not mean rogue. They are not strictly assassins.

Every class in this game is a hybrid by default. They all have skills that will benefit different playstlyes. I do not agree with your assessment that the 'main class' purpose is to be the rogue playstyle. So, to me, its not 'splintering off.' And apparently ZOS agrees.

Now I'm not against it, different workmen will use a different tool to do the same job. And everyone has a different play style. However instead of changing core skills for a class, create hybrid classes that combines the skills to create something unique. So off shoots from Nightblade for example, your shadow knight that leans more towards the heavy armour and weapons from DK, but with the precision and agility of use from the assassin. A NB/Templar combination which heals the team as it kills. NB/Caster will just end up getting nerfed to hell.

So.... how does this change not support hybridization? Working surprise attack into your dps rotation will give you the buff, and as you can sustain it better that a tank, you can use it frequently. The tank needs the duration as it will not be able to spam it as much. Or is that not your argument?

Again, every class is intended to be hybrid. There is no strictly one way or the other. Thats what ZOS designed, and its what they are continuing to balance towards.

How in any way does heavy armor or sword and shield 'belong' to DK? (or DW/bow belong to NB for that matter...)They are open skill lines available to everyone. Just because they don't fit into what you think the class is does not mean that they are not for the class.

They also boosted NB heals. Healing is not exclusive to Templars and it never has been.

And again I strongly disagree with your perspective of 'off shoots' based on what you think the class is.

I have no delusions of convincing you to my perspective. I have argued enough about the openness of the system to know that people probably won't change their bias, I know I wont.

Annyways, have a good time out there man!

I noticed that too, very odd. Heavy Armour NB? No thanks.

@Kronosphere Seriously go around in sneak all the time, you will get annoyed really quickly. I go out into the wilderness to farm for resources to keep the guild stock up and only go into fights where I know I'm going to get what I need from them like hides. All other fights I tend to avoid. After 2 hours of listening to WH WH WH, it drives you insane. So if you think the game comes before sanity then that's your call. And I do believe I said all future releases. You kind of make a decision on future purchases with previous experience. Morrorwind, great, Oblivion amazing, Skyrim, didn't play it much due to the arrow I took to the knee, ESO, WH WH WH WH WH!!!

Admittedly, I can easily remedy this and just kill everything and not go into sneak at all. So I'm off to go craft myself an nice set of full plate armour after I've spent 2 hours watching leekspin.com to regain my sanity. (Before anyone asks it's 46 seconds before I scream at the screen what is the point)

I think you might have missed the bit where I quoted directly from the character creation screen, that is actually in the game. I'm not disputing the freedom that is given. Yet when the description states that this class values speed and stealth you don't expect to be doing it in full plate armour. Is it me or are people missing that point.

@stewart.leslie76b16_ESO I'm just arguing with you for the sake of argument. That's what forums are for after all, discussion. and I'm bored so your thread is my latest interest. And your comment about quitting because of a sound effect amused me, so I thought I would poke you a bit.

And since we are linking sites, http://elderscrollsonline.info/classes.

I particularly like the lines "Does not matter what class you choose, you can use all weapons and armour types anyway. It is your choice what type of armour to use: heavy, light or medium leather. The same applies to weapons, you can wield any weapon and fight as you wish. So classes in ESO do not restrict you to only using a limited set of gear." <also something the guys who created the classes said. A bit contradictory to the argument you are using, wouldn't you think? Or maybe its just me... Probably just me....

I like your future class breakdown. Very nice point

And it is certainly true that I am the one throwing around the term rogue. I guess I'm just trying to summarize what I see as your perspective. Which to me is viewing the class as a stereotype. One I don't agree with no matter the descriptltion they slapped on.

As for the templar bit, maybe I read too much into "A NB/Templar combination which heals the team as it kills." Which to me seems like you are saying Templars are for healing, and if you want to you can mix your Nightblade with some heals to make a NB/Templar hybrid.... As if nightblades didn't have group heals as part of the class or something.

Alright, let's break down the class. Ignoring, of course, the swinging of swords and the wearing of armor and such things that every class can do, even if they are "the heavy armour and weapons from DK." And as you have so graciously alowed for the ball to be in my court for the interpretation of the class, I would say that I interpret the class to be free to do what it wants as per my first comment. Where, from my perspective, you decided to rebute my statement by saying that the class had to be one way, and that any variations were "splinters" from this core truth.

(Btw, have I mentioned how much I hate the descriptions for the classes in this game? Because I hate the descriptions for the classes in this game.)

So let's take the skills as they are now.

We have the assassination line; crit in the passives (great for assassinating), a finishing move, a tp strike, a defensive dodge chance move, a mark that lets your target and everyone on the field know that he's the target, a magic nuke that takes successive hits to charge.... Huh, those last three don't seem overly 'assassin' to me... They either are only effective in a longer fight (your assassination failed and now you are fighting a pitched battle) or actually let your target know you are coming... At least the ult is a good burst of damage. And it looks cool too.

Ok then, shadow. Good passives... Stam regen (great for marathons or marathon blocking), a boost to hp for each shadow ability slotted... It almost would seem by this that the line was intended to have synergy with tanking... A duration increase, and the newly changed defensive buff that has increased duration with heavy armor... That tanking synergy feeling is getting stronger. Well, let's look at the skills. There is a shadow cloak (an ability every assassin should love as it lets them get out of a sticky situation, that is unless of course they are fighting an extended pitched battle with their assassin abilities because they let the target know they were coming...), a shadowy strike that stuns out of stealth (excellent for assassination, or can be used for a debuff), a shadowy aoe with limited range, but that boosts kiting ability and does decent enough damage and can also heal... A fear, and a summon debuff. Now, these abilities are certainly useful in an assassination, and thanks to the passives, they could also work very nicely defensively. The Ult is awesome, because it has a smokebomb effect and mitigates damage... Almost as if it could synergise with tanking.

Then we have siphoning. Some Ult gain in the passives, bonus healing, good stuff. Strife, a damage ability with a heal over time and that can be morphed to group heal, a lockdown ability similar to ones from other classes but also inferior, a solid dot that also can slow the target, a reduction in damage in exchange for great sustained fights, and an aoe that takes your enemies life force and boosts your power. I don't know about you, but there is a definate feeling of warlock/bloodmage in this line for me. Maybe you feel different? Then the Ult stuns and leeches hp. Pretty solid.

I don't know... To me with passives taken into account, that seems pretty open to hybrid to me.

And yes, I do still think you are being stereotypical by stating the sources you did, as they are themselves stereotypical. From my interpretation of a class breakdown, they did a good job with shadow barrier in that it can be maintained whether you are tank, healer, or dps.

I like you. You argue good. :P

NB tanks happen to exist, you know. If we follow your reasoning, we end up pigeonholing classes into specific builds; when this started happening to sorcerers, the forum roared with refusal. This is Elder Scrolls and your starting point isn't necessarily where you'll end up.

Nightblades are not assassins, they are stealhy individuals using magic to enhance their mobility and concealment. Stealth doesn't equate to assassination, even though video games tend favor combat-focused characters. Still, they could be thieves or spies, and as it happens in ESO with the Siphoning line, also excellent deathknights.

I have no idea how useful the incrased duration of Shadow Barrier is, but given that previously it didn't have that boost at all, I think it's pretty nice to have it now even if it doesn't help your build, isn't it?

Tell you what guys, if you lot want just 4 basic classes with the ability to morph it any you want. I'm happy to leave it be. I give up. If you want to continue then feel free to message me and I'll happily talk in private about it.

My 2nd point of the OP still stands though.

Then you're not a Nightblade, you may have started off as one. For example, I started my working life as a combat medic. I'm now a business analyst. I use some skills I learnt as a combat medic, but I don't expect a combat medic to learn how to make an ERD or understand what RAD is. Does that mean I'm still a combat medic?

Like I said, I have no problem with with character progression as it is. What I do have a problem with is that players expect to be able to mutate a class within the character and still be considered the original class. A rifleman is taught basic first aid, he can go off and learn more advanced first aid where some skills contradict what he was originally taught. But them skills which contradict are not taught in basic first aid. He can continue that training line all the way, but at some point he is no longer a rifleman.

Like I said if you're happy with having FOUR basic classes, and have the skills within them FOUR classes changed so that any possible build is able to use them then you're happy with it.

Because Nightblades are not all about being thieves and being sneaky. They do other stuff too, they are tanks and casters and their powers should support more than one role. "Nightblade" is not a synonym for thief.