What happens when...eclipse on reflective scales

technohic · February 2015

Just a quick question as I have been playing around with eclipse a bit. One time, I have seen it on me and I know what it looks like so I stop casting spells, and I would say most smart players do so and retreat until it goes away, but it is fun to watch someone start blasting themselves.

So I got to wondering, what does it do if I cast it on a DK with reflective scales up. Does it rely on them casting, or do the spells they reflect bounce back at them?

Sacadon · February 2015

Good question...

I know that when someone with defensive posture sends a light destro attack scales reflects, then defensive posture reflects it back then scales reflects it back again which you get hit by. Trying to reapply defensive posture before the 2nd reflect hasn't worked for me but I may be too slow.

So I suspect that the first one to expire looses or there's a max number of reflects which may or may not be the same between eclipse and flaps.

I'm curious to know for certain.

technohic · February 2015

Yeah, I've tried it; saw the flaps then applied eclipse and started shooting arrows and I get the reflect message from an add on, but I don't seem to take the damage but then I can't really tell if they are. Its hard to do in the chaos and expect a controlled result.

technohic · February 2015

Nobody knows?

danno8 · February 2015

Things can be reflected twice.

So if a DK has scales, you can cast a spell at him, have it reflect back at you, then if you have another reflector up it will go back to the DK, and he takes the damage even if scales is still up.

At least that is how I have heard it works from some reliable PvP sources.

Panda244 · February 2015

Dragonknight casts Reflect, and Templar Eclipses Dragonknight, until the Dragonknight CC breaks Eclipse, any projectile shot at the DK will still hit him, it'll just be delayed cause it has to bounce back.

ThatHappyCat · February 2015

Eclipse only affects spells so it shouldn't affect Snipe.

technohic · February 2015

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Eclipse only affects spells so it shouldn't affect Snipe.

Ahh good point. I wonder if that means heavy attacks from a staff are still reflected from scales and then eclipse or not.

Thanks for the info guys. I have noticed when I have caster allies around, they seem to be able to blow up the DK thats trying to use scales.

Panda244 · February 2015

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Eclipse only affects spells so it shouldn't affect Snipe.

Yeah but the combination of Reflect (Reflects all projectiles) and Eclipse is funky, because the DK used Reflect and he's Eclipsed, it basically buffs Eclipse and counts for any projectile, at least that's whats happened to me in 1.5 a lot.

Sacadon · February 2015

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Things can be reflected twice.

So if a DK has scales, you can cast a spell at him, have it reflect back at you, then if you have another reflector up it will go back to the DK, and he takes the damage even if scales is still up.

At least that is how I have heard it works from some reliable PvP sources.

^^
I just tested this with a friend on NA TB and the final damage hits the DK.

Tested with both light and heavy destro staff (fire) and even chains was reflected by eclipse. We repeated the test several times to be sure. So at least with these basic things it's confirmed.

technohic · February 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Things can be reflected twice.

So if a DK has scales, you can cast a spell at him, have it reflect back at you, then if you have another reflector up it will go back to the DK, and he takes the damage even if scales is still up.

At least that is how I have heard it works from some reliable PvP sources.

^^
I just tested this with a friend on NA TB and the final damage hits the DK.

Tested with both light and heavy destro staff (fire) and even chains was reflected by eclipse. We repeated the test several times to be sure. So at least with these basic things it's confirmed.

Thanks for confirming. I'm finding it pretty awesome when someone isn't expecting it. Good players are still dangerous because they break it a lot cheaper than it costs if they notice it but its hillarious to see the hopefull come charging into a crowd alone spamming scales only to give the green light for people to nail em.

Need to check what the shield animations all look like cause it actually seems worse on sorcs like they don't notice and keep casting.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2015

technohic wrote: »

Yeah, I've tried it; saw the flaps then applied eclipse and started shooting arrows and I get the reflect message from an add on, but I don't seem to take the damage but then I can't really tell if they are. Its hard to do in the chaos and expect a controlled result.

seeing that eclipse only reflects single target negative spells, shooting arrows into eclipsed scales is pointless, unless its bugged and then should be reported.

It does work reflecting spells twice

but seeing that immovable stops eclipse from being cast its a real doosey to get to work. It needs to be considered hard cc because of the potential op of the move, but immovable should not stop it seeing that you can move/block/role/heal/use any stamina abilities... its NOT HARD CC.

Sheuib · February 2015

When I see eclipse or wings I just start hitting aoe abilities. A lot of times against DK's I don't even wait for the wings I just start spamming blazing spear. I always got a kick out of watching DK's flapping there wings while I am killing them with blazing spear. To bad they are giving people cc immunity after getting hit with it because that was another nice thing being able to keep someone locked down if they were out of stamina.

technohic · February 2015

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Yeah, I've tried it; saw the flaps then applied eclipse and started shooting arrows and I get the reflect message from an add on, but I don't seem to take the damage but then I can't really tell if they are. Its hard to do in the chaos and expect a controlled result.

seeing that eclipse only reflects single target negative spells, shooting arrows into eclipsed scales is pointless, unless its bugged and then should be reported.

It does work reflecting spells twice

but seeing that immovable stops eclipse from being cast its a real doosey to get to work. It needs to be considered hard cc because of the potential op of the move, but immovable should not stop it seeing that you can move/block/role/heal/use any stamina abilities... its NOT HARD CC.

I didn't realize it did that. That explains why it doesn't like to go off sometimes.

Ashanne · February 2015

So what if the DK is the attacker?
I put wings on me cast a light attack and get an eclipse on me. Is the light attack getting thru the bubble?
So:...wings..eclipse...light goes in eclipse (1 round) reflects back at wings (2 round) ..goes into initial target..

danno8 · February 2015

Ashanne wrote: »

So what if the DK is the attacker?
I put wings on me cast a light attack and get an eclipse on me. Is the light attack getting thru the bubble?
So:...wings..eclipse...light goes in eclipse (1 round) reflects back at wings (2 round) ..goes into initial target..

Eclipse is confusing because it works like a reflect on the person who is targeted by the person who has eclipse on them. Even the visual is confusing because someone who has Eclipse on them , when they cast a spell, it appears to bounce off their target and come back to them instead of just bouncing off the inside of the bubble and hitting them immediately.

So when someone has the Eclipse bubble on them, their target (anyone they target) essentially has reflect on them.

danno8 · February 2015

Ashanne wrote: »

So what if the DK is the attacker?
I put wings on me cast a light attack and get an eclipse on me. Is the light attack getting thru the bubble?
So:...wings..eclipse...light goes in eclipse (1 round) reflects back at wings (2 round) ..goes into initial target..

In this case, I believe the projectile will bounce off the DKs target (because of eclipse), come back to the DK then bounce off the DK (because off flappys) and go back to the DK's target where the target takes the damage due to the 2 bounce maximum rule.

IF EVERYONE in a fighting group has a reflect up, then they essentially all cancel out each other and everyone takes full damage.

Fun eh? Someone in another thread I recall saying "The easiest way to kill a DK at range is to put up your own Defensive Posture" and I understand why.

Apokh · February 2015

NEVER!!!

NEVER cross the beams...

Ashanne · February 2015

Lets say..a dk vs a temp...
the dk puts wings on,
the temp puts eclipse,
the dk fires a light attack at the temp...now basically the temp has "wings on"
but the dk has wings on too...so its double reflect going from dk to temp..and the temp cant reflect back as 2 reflections happened already ..so temp get damage from light attack...

its just like a winged dk firing at a winged dk and the second dk takes the damage anyway..

at least this is how I see the logic behind eclipse...so I always try break it
now I don't know for a fact this is what happens..eclipse is pretty scarce in PVP and usually pops up when there are lots of enemies and its hard to track everything...

technohic · February 2015

Ashanne wrote: »

Lets say..a dk vs a temp...
the dk puts wings on,
the temp puts eclipse,
the dk fires a light attack at the temp...now basically the temp has "wings on"
but the dk has wings on too...so its double reflect going from dk to temp..and the temp cant reflect back as 2 reflections happened already ..so temp get damage from light attack...

its just like a winged dk firing at a winged dk and the second dk takes the damage anyway..

at least this is how I see the logic behind eclipse...so I always try break it
now I don't know for a fact this is what happens..eclipse is pretty scarce in PVP and usually pops up when there are lots of enemies and its hard to track everything...

Yeah, its kind of a waste to use 1v1. In a hectic fight is when it does best and then it also benefits your allies who are getting reflected by scales. Often times, I see the DK KDed right after its up to where he couldn't break it if he wanted to.

david.haypreub18_ESO · February 2015

I wonder how all of this will work with the new AvA skill, Guard?

technohic · February 2015

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I wonder how all of this will work with the new AvA skill, Guard?

HMmmm, I don't think it would do anything to the person casting Eclipse, other than it landing on a different target. If thats the DK who gets the idea he is going to take all negative attacks toward him and wind up reflecting enough to damage an entire army, that will be great so long as he doesn't get a surprise eclipse on him right when he does it. Then I would assume he basically winds up eating all that damage unless he has immovable up.

Speaking of which; immovable CC immunity duration is nerfed and scales is being nerfed to 4 spells while eclipse is a single target and lasts 5 seconds. Eclipse is so situational but that at least makes it seem a little better for some reason.

danno8 · February 2015

Apokh wrote: »

NEVER!!!

NEVER cross the beams...

"Streams"

Cody · February 2015

Well done, you have given what sounds like an interesting way to take on RS using DKs as a templar:)