1.6 PTS HEAVY ARMOR FEEDBACK

EnOeZ · February 2015

Tell me one thing... Why cannot we light attack + block or heavy attack + block ?? I can put a banner down while blocking, I can charge and stampede, I can cast bubbles, I can flurry, I can do everything except the simplest ones... light and heavy attack.

So, how on earth are we even supposed to get stamina back in the frontline if we cannot even heavy attack for that (other than release block and die of course)...

I thought it was because of the interrupt command (left+right click), so I changed the shortcut but it seems it is another "WE HAVE NO IDEA, NO INTEREST IN WHAT WE ARE DOING WITH HEAVY ARMOR MELEE STAMINA PVP" design.

I am really upset right now really, especially again being stamina+melee+heavy. AVOID AT ALL COST that combination since you will die in a handful of seconds, not because you play badly, just because you will have no resource to fight.

No resource to fight is
No resource to play.

EnOeZ · February 2015

So... in 1.6.2 Medium is getting more buffs :

Medium Armor
_Dexterity: This passive now grants a higher Critical Strike rating to physical attacks, and was changed to be approximately on par with the Spell Critical Rating gained by the Light Armor passive Prodigy.
_Shuffle (Evasion morph): This ability now has effects for its snare immunity and prevents you from being snared or immobilized in addition to granting the Major Evasion buff. The duration of the immunity is 0.5 seconds for each piece of Medium Armor equipped.

At the same time regen is still halved (Constitution) compared to live and and have still lost the 7% damage to melee attacks (Juggernaut). Even more reasons not to choose Heavy over Medium/Light apart from PVE tanking situations.

Only good news for 2H Melee
_Forward Momentum (Momentum morph): This ability now prevents you from becoming snared or immobilized, and has added effects for its snare immunity. The duration is 2 seconds at Rank I, 2.5 seconds at Rank II, 3 seconds at Rank III, and 3.5 seconds at Rank IV... which indirectly renders Heavy Melee a little bit less stamina resource heavy thanks to (short) immobilized immunity.

david.haypreub18_ESO · February 2015

Looks to me like they are trying to give people some answers to Talons, so I like that part.

Medium already has cheap dodge rolling, so it is kind of redundant there, but it may make me actually use Shuffle.

I like that 2Handed is getting an immunity to root as well. It makes me think maybe I'll stick with 2-Handed for DPS.

EnOeZ · February 2015

I agree with yo David.

Today is ESO live day with the lead combat designer. I will try to rise this melee heavy stamina issue in PVP to Eric Zobel. Let us all rise it to try (again) to save Frontline Melee PVP from its desperate state.

EnOeZ wrote: »

So now, with 1.6.2 Heavy Armor is finally the best at passive damage mitigation !

However Heavy is still by far :
the worst at active damage mitigation (casting abilities, roll-dodging, etc...) being completely resources-starved compared to the other two in a handful of seconds

even more the worst at damage in 1.6 (with the Juggernaut 7% damage to melee attacks) nerf

the worst at mobility to "counter" root spam (hard counter to melee heavy) where Medium is by far the best with now the new "shuffle" root immunity and built in cost reduction to dodge

the least sustainable with the worst resource management of all three armors, resource management that has even been halved in 1.6 (Constitution)

My question : Did you, Eric Zobel, lead combat game designer, noticed that Melee Weapons (stamina based), Heavy Armor users run outstandingly fast out of Stamina resources in PVP, at a point that they just have no resource to play the PVP game in just a matter of seconds ?

Is it intended design for Heavy Armor in PVP to be consequently the least able to hold the front line, especially in the Melee Stamina combination and to have apart from break free cost reduction no built in mechanics to support melee front line play style when light and medium have lots of mechanics and passives for sustainability, dps (crits and penetration) and mobility.

Is Heavy officially the no competitive PVP armor of TESO being the least sustainable and the least threatening one, dps-wise ?

Detailed thread here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148711/1-6-pts-heavy-armor-feedback/p1

Let's hope he will be smart enough to assess it seriously. Just running statistics in players armor/ressource/weapon compared to performance (death time, killing blows, dps, play time (which derives from enjoyment), AP rankings, even damage incurred...) should be enough to bring up the RED LIGHT !

It would be great to make those statistics public !!

EnOeZ · February 2015

Patch 1.6.3

Unchained: Reduced the duration of this ability from 8 seconds to 3 seconds.
(80% reduction to stamina abilities after break free).

...

Contrary then to what stated before, unchained won't be anymore a "savior".
One good point less for heavy first line meleers.

Zershar_Vemod · February 2015

Good write up.

Francescolg · February 2015

EnOeZ wrote: »

[*] And no improvement at all in terms of ressource management especially allowing us to survive roots, especially talon spam. Worse CC break is more expansive now (only hope in 80% stamina cost decrease in a 120 points Champion System attribute).

WAIT! A DK complaining about Talon SPAM? hahahahahahaha

hahahahahahaha

[some funny looking comic image stolen from the internet]

hahahahahahahaha

You know that "Radiant Aura's 80% Stamina regen" (having a Templar in team keeping it up) was also a remedy to Talons and it was nurfed too!? So, basically, why not simply overwork the whole "ROOT not beeing considered serious CC"-Issue of this game instead of tweaking left and right, as 'they' have ween doing the last 8 months?
Could we come together on that idea that ROOT is also a soft or hard CC or something which should not hold players stuck on the ground like big forest trees??

EnOeZ · February 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

[*] And no improvement at all in terms of ressource management especially allowing us to survive roots, especially talon spam. Worse CC break is more expansive now (only hope in 80% stamina cost decrease in a 120 points Champion System attribute).

WAIT! A DK complaining about Talon SPAM? hahahahahahaha

hahahahahahaha

[some funny looking comic image stolen from the internet]

hahahahahahahaha

You know that "Radiant Aura's 80% Stamina regen" (having a Templar in team keeping it up) was also a remedy to Talons and it was nurfed too!? So, basically, why not simply overwork the whole "ROOT not beeing considered serious CC"-Issue of this game instead of tweaking left and right, as 'they' have ween doing the last 8 months?
Could we come together on that idea that ROOT is also a soft or hard CC or something which should not hold players stuck on the ground like big forest trees??

Yes, I know strange to find a DK not wearing a dress these days...
And you know, some people do not put self-interest first.

And yes I am a DK acknowledging talons (in PVP) is op against full melee with current game mechanics.

Turelus · February 2015

This is a fantastic breakdown @EnOeZ, and as someone who has tried to use heavy armour for months now finding a way it can be viable I have to agree with everything written here.

In 1.6 there is a very good chance I will switch over to medium armour, I love the idea of heavy armour and really hoped 1.6 would bring something great for it, all I heard in every single talk about champion system from ZOS was how heavy armour will stand out as the tank armour, that light and medium would not be as strong in defence. Sadly however most of the chances I have seen to heavy armour appear to be negative ones, with ZOS seeming to flip-flop back and forth about what they want heavy armour to actually do.

The simple sad truth right now is why should I use heavy armour when I can spam a damage shield in light which gives me better protections.

Turelus · February 2015

I would like to also offer some feedback on the active skill for HA.

Right now everyone is using either Immovable (base) or Unstoppable for the most part because the duration of the CC immunity is important.

With the new changes however I don't feel like the morph options really are a choice, because one is so much better than the other. With the Break Free costs being move to Immovable Brute and Unstoppable only giving 4.7 seconds more duration then Immovable Brute is the choice to make because it gives you much more out of the morph.

While I hate the hard "damn I they're both awesome what do I take?" choices I feel they're also what makes the game and character building more fun, when one choice is vastly superior to the other it stops being a choice.

Edit:

Here is a screenshot of the two morphs at max, with the final duration bonus being 5.25 seconds which still dosn't seem valuable enough to offset 28% reduction in CC break free costs.

Solanum · February 2015

First of all, thanks for the post. As a big supporter of heavy armor a lot of the issues were pointed out nicely.

That said, I've done a lot of dueling on PTS, to get a feel for the state of heavy armor in the patch to come, and was pleasantly surprised.

Heavy armor is still behind in comparison to other armors, no doubt there. But it is a viable way to increase mitigation at the moment. Going with 5 light/medium and 2 heavy is a very good choice in my experience.
Full heavy can also be worked into a build, but it is tough. The lack of resource management requires heavy investing in the right champion points, the right set items, and a playstyle which relies upon the frequent use of heavy attacks.

PVP wise we are not quite there yet, but we've made a huge step forward. I'm confident once the dust of the changes settles, heavy armor will get another buff, which may actually bring us on par with the other armors.

PVE wise, I'm able to tank with a two hander, as a Nightblade. Which makes me very very very happy. And with the increased difference in mitigation, I feel like plate is actually the armor to use for tanking.