1.6 ESO goes from one extreme to the other, or "Why do I suck so bad now?"

olemanwinter · February 2015

Everyone has been complaining about "robes and staves" in ESO since launch. It's now going to be "heavy armor 2H". It's so OP to be ridiculous.

In live I'm a NB magica burst melee. I'm pretty good at this.

Even so, quite often I encounter players with so much armor, health, shields, etc that I have to give up. I can't kill them, and if I make a quick exit after noticing how robust they are....I can sometimes get away.

But no matter what, I've yet to encounter a player who literally takes no damage from me, who literally seems invincible.

UNTIL PTS.

I put 24 or my 70 CP into "Precise Strikes" 9.2% increase crit damage. (Other CP placement irrelevant for damage stats)

Shadow Mundus.

With my sets, enchants, and food:

TOTAL Wep Damage: 2116
TOTAL Wep Crit: 49.1% (but striking out of stealth from behind should be 100% crit chance)

Tested my single "Surprise Attack" damage out of stealth on an NPC for 23,000 DAMAGE. Pretty good huh?

Well, I attacked an enemy templar in PvP from stealth with Surprise Attack and it did NOTHING. Literally nothing. The change in her health bar was unperceivable.

She had 32,000 health. I hit her with my best attack out of stealth which should do 23k damage...and I guarantee she lost less than 1k health.

I hit her again. Nothing. Again. Nothing.

2 Guards came from the keep to help. Nothing.

I spawned a shade. Retreated to bow and started spamming bow attacks and poison injection.

After everything, my burst, 2 guards, shade, bow attacks, she maybe lost 5-10% health.

This was my best attempt to recreate the build I use in live (although that's magica).

To get anywhere near the same relative damage ON PAPER, I have to give up the ability to cast shadow cloak more than twice and the ability to cast any wards. In short, to maintain the same burst, I've lost all survival and escapability. Except it's ONLY on paper! In reality, the burst relative to in-game damage mitigation is dramatically less!

I don't want this to be a NB nerf QQ thread, because I think this problem extends to other classes. But I will say, as a NB, the combination of Heavy armor + Shields + Self-heals that the other classes have make playing seem truly pointless.

I didn't want to wear a robe and carry a staff. And I don't want to wear heavy armor and swing a 2H sword either.

Either I'm missing something, or this game has made the same mistake all over again, just the INVERSE. It's as wildly unbalanced as it ever was. The pendulum has simply swung to the other extreme.

AshySamurai · February 2015

It's not about you or heavy armor. It's about templars become OP. lol.

olemanwinter · February 2015

AshySamurai wrote: »

It's not about you or heavy armor. It's about templars become OP. lol.

Did you read the whole post? She was just standing there. Her being templar wouldn't have changed how much damage the first strike did.

bosmern_ESO · February 2015

Template classes in 1.6 have maxed champion points, if they were a template class you were hitting the difference in champion points.

her 3000+ champion points give her tons of benefits, which alone will make it much harder to kill her because you have only 70.

AshySamurai · February 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

It's not about you or heavy armor. It's about templars become OP. lol.

Did you read the whole post? She was just standing there. Her being templar wouldn't have changed how much damage the first strike did.

Yeah, mate, I read the whole post. It could be bug. Someone did 1 mil damage, someone mitigate a lot of damage. It is PTS. Did you tried to talk to this templar (you can speak with peolple from other alliances via guild chat)?

olemanwinter · February 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Template classes in 1.6 have maxed champion points, if they were a template class you were hitting the difference in champion points.

her 3000+ champion points give her tons of benefits, which alone will make it much harder to kill her because you have only 70.

If so, then the difference between 70 champion points and 3000 is FAR FAR GREATER than the difference between lvl 50 and VR14 ever was.

Nobody coming into this game a year from now will ever keep playing if they encounter what I just did.

Blud · February 2015

I've seen a few builds floating around with medium armor and 2H + brawler. Maybe that's the new meta?

Or else, you just have to look for the right set up. I've seen some 1.6 magicka builds around. Not sure how they will work in live.

Edit: It also wouldn't be unheard for for something to bug on a nightblade.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO · February 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Template classes in 1.6 have maxed champion points, if they were a template class you were hitting the difference in champion points.

her 3000+ champion points give her tons of benefits, which alone will make it much harder to kill her because you have only 70.

If so, then the difference between 70 champion points and 3000 is FAR FAR GREATER than the difference between lvl 50 and VR14 ever was.

Nobody coming into this game a year from now will ever keep playing if they encounter what I just did.

it is around 1.5 years of time played to get max champion points, actually with the 70, not including enlightenment it is 588 days of time played at 4hrs a CP to max it out. There are problems in the CP system. But the power gap thing isn't as big a problem as what you saw.

Circuitous · February 2015

The balance for maxed champion points is acknowledged as wonky, you can safely ignore it.

That said, this templar was just standing there? Are you sure they were even properly connected? If they lagged out it'd make some sense for their healthbar to desync. Did they fight back at all?

olemanwinter · February 2015

Blud wrote: »

I've seen a few builds floating around with medium armor and 2H + brawler. Maybe that's the new meta?

Or else, you just have to look for the right set up. I've seen some 1.6 magicka builds around. Not sure how they will work in live.

Well, I've always theorycrafted builds outside of PvP, where variables can be accounted for, then moved into PvP with a solid understanding of what I could do.

I'm not sure anything was wrong with my damage. Maybe, but did you see what I said my first strike was doing on an NPC?

olemanwinter · February 2015

Circuitous wrote: »

That said, this templar was just standing there? Are you sure they were even properly connected? If they lagged out it'd make some sense for their healthbar to desync. Did they fight back at all?

Yes. After I spent my burst.....my shade and I spammed arrows at her....she killed the two guards....walked over to me...and killed me.

I could have tried to escape, but ya know...Zos makes me go stam now "for that great burst" lol :-/

Knootewoot · February 2015

I went in with my magicka NB and had same problem. I was one shotted by the other player though. I went stamina build but could not test it right because the NPC's guards spotted me from miles and i was one-shotted again by the same player.

I hope they make a seperate PvP server pre-1.6. It releases in 1 month so it might be better. But i want to keep the softcaps and de 3000 health instead of 30000. To much digits makes my head spin.

cazlonb16_ESO · February 2015

Sounds like a character with maxed CP with Blazing Shield on, plus a little exaggeration. Blazing Shield is based on max health and while it shouldn't eat 22k damage on a 32k health character, it will take a decent chunk out of that hit. Before the already scheduled nerf anyway...

A lot of players really seem to underestimate the difference between a 70 CP and a max CP character. It's very large.

Of course, it could just have been one of the many glitches.

olemanwinter · February 2015

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Sounds like a character with maxed CP with Blazing Shield on, plus a little exaggeration.

I didn't take damage. So not blazing shield. I didn't exaggerate. I gave you hard numbers for what my strike was capable of based on PvE testing. It caused NO PERCEIVABLE difference to her health bar.

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of players really seem to underestimate the difference between a 70 CP and a max CP character.

Well, that's fine for now, and fine for me because I'm ahead of the curve with most existing players. But what about 12 months from now? How in the heck does Zos expect to retain new players if the difference is that strong?

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Of course, it could just have been one of the many glitches.

I hope. I've been trying to get some people from my guild to go into PTS to test with me (builds and some bugs I think exist) but nobody will go.

Ffastyl · February 2015

If we're talking 1.6.2, the 3600 CP ZOS gave us for testing brought to light a buff stacking/tracking bug with Champion Passives. This bug would cause buffs to become permanent and then stack, resetting only on logout. The most famous of this is the damage bug, seen mostly on two-handers due to Momentum (damage buff skill). However, it can occur with any buff, and has been seen for Armor and Spell Resist.

Edit: I went into Cyrodiil initially with 70 CP, and against 3600 CP I was being two to three shot in full Heavy Armor. It may have been the bug, but still, it illustrates the power difference between 70 CP and max CP. ZOS does know max CP is super powerful, even mentioned it in the 1.6.2 patch notes, so no need to blast the horn on that.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Champion System
General
The maximum system limit of 3,600 Champion Points will now be awarded to the Character Template to allow for more testing of the Champion System.
Note: This will cause PvE content to become easier than it was originally balanced for, and is not the intended balance of the system.

Digiman · February 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Everyone has been complaining about "robes and staves" in ESO since launch. It's now going to be "heavy armor 2H". It's so OP to be ridiculous.

In live I'm a NB magica burst melee. I'm pretty good at this.

Even so, quite often I encounter players with so much armor, health, shields, etc that I have to give up. I can't kill them, and if I make a quick exit after noticing how robust they are....I can sometimes get away.

But no matter what, I've yet to encounter a player who literally takes no damage from me, who literally seems invincible.

UNTIL PTS.

I put 24 or my 70 CP into "Precise Strikes" 9.2% increase crit damage. (Other CP placement irrelevant for damage stats)

Shadow Mundus.

With my sets, enchants, and food:

TOTAL Wep Damage: 2116
TOTAL Wep Crit: 49.1% (but striking out of stealth from behind should be 100% crit chance)

Tested my single "Surprise Attack" damage out of stealth on an NPC for 23,000 DAMAGE. Pretty good huh?

Well, I attacked an enemy templar in PvP from stealth with Surprise Attack and it did NOTHING. Literally nothing. The change in her health bar was unperceivable.

She had 32,000 health. I hit her with my best attack out of stealth which should do 23k damage...and I guarantee she lost less than 1k health.

I hit her again. Nothing. Again. Nothing.

2 Guards came from the keep to help. Nothing.

I spawned a shade. Retreated to bow and started spamming bow attacks and poison injection.

After everything, my burst, 2 guards, shade, bow attacks, she maybe lost 5-10% health.

This was my best attempt to recreate the build I use in live (although that's magica).

To get anywhere near the same relative damage ON PAPER, I have to give up the ability to cast shadow cloak more than twice and the ability to cast any wards. In short, to maintain the same burst, I've lost all survival and escapability. Except it's ONLY on paper! In reality, the burst relative to in-game damage mitigation is dramatically less!

I don't want this to be a NB nerf QQ thread, because I think this problem extends to other classes. But I will say, as a NB, the combination of Heavy armor + Shields + Self-heals that the other classes have make playing seem truly pointless.

I didn't want to wear a robe and carry a staff. And I don't want to wear heavy armor and swing a 2H sword either.

Either I'm missing something, or this game has made the same mistake all over again, just the INVERSE. It's as wildly unbalanced as it ever was. The pendulum has simply swung to the other extreme.

Everyone can fill up their CP since you now have all the points you need to fill each one with 100 points each.

Basically this means that a heavy armor templer isn't going to take as much damage as he would on live.

Xeniph · February 2015

I feel like I should point out that 2100 weapon damage is fairly low. Sounds like a hybrid level of weapon damage.

I was pushing 3100 on my glass cannon NB spec.

As others have pointed out, 1.6.2 has many bug issues regarding damage/mitigation. So that could be your problem as well.

And then obviously 3600 CP is so far beyond 70 it's not even funny.

Cody · February 2015

NBs really need a good self heal and a damage shield of their own, since we are talking about it.

Now about that player never dying... i never encountered that in PTS. maybe its a bug?

timidobserver · February 2015

delete

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

I think they are putting 1.6.3 on the PTS today. Maybe not but if so it should be different out there once its published.

Jahosefat · February 2015

Cody wrote: »

NBs really need a good self heal and a damage shield of their own, since we are talking about it.

Now about that player never dying... i never encountered that in PTS. maybe its a bug?

Now that damage shields can be crit and offer no mitigation, why would you want one? It's going to be like opening yourself up to a huge crit.

Cody · February 2015

Jahosefat wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

NBs really need a good self heal and a damage shield of their own, since we are talking about it.

Now about that player never dying... i never encountered that in PTS. maybe its a bug?

Now that damage shields can be crit and offer no mitigation, why would you want one? It's going to be like opening yourself up to a huge crit.

yeah, i guess every player has a crit build then.

Ffastyl · February 2015

Jahosefat wrote: »

Now that damage shields can be crit and offer no mitigation, why would you want one? It's going to be like opening yourself up to a huge crit.

Damage shields had no mitigation from launch, and are immune to critical hits. 1.6.2 and 1.6.3 let you generate Ultimate from them and allowed certain abilities that depend on dealing damage to proc on damage shields (i.e. Funnel Health). No other changes.