All Magicka / Stamina cost reduction percentage modifiers nerfed in 1.6

Ezareth · February 2015

(Current as of 1.6.2)
I've spent hours of time testing and researching the various forms of cost reduction available in both live and PTS. I posted a similar thread earlier on Magicka costs and am making this thread to expand on my findings.

On live, calculating cost of an ability is simple and easy to understand. You take the base cost and subtract from it any cost reduction jewelry enchants you have. From this adjusted base number you multiply it by the sum of the cost reduction percentages you currently receive. The math is exact and the benefit of using a particular set or enchant is quite clear.

1.0 thru 1.5 Cost Formula = (x-y)*z
where x = base cost, y = sum of your reduction enchants, and z = sum of your reduction percentages.

In 1.6 all cost reduction percentage modifiers now have a 12.3% penalty applied to them.

This means that *all* cost reduction set bonuses (Seducer, Vicious Ophidian etc.), passives (Light/Mediums Armor, Bow, Dual Wield etc.), racials (Breton) and procs (Crystal Fragments) were nerfed by roughly 1/8th without so much as a mention of it in the patch notes.

1.6 Cost Reduction Formula = (X*(100-W)/100)-Z)*(1-(Y/100)*0.877)
where x = Base cost, y is sum of your Reduction percentages, z is the Sum of your Reduction Enchants, and w is the champion point reduction percentage.

Jewelry enchant reductions also bugged. A VR14 magicka reduction neck provides 198 spell cost reduction (the tooltip says 200) yet the same enchant on a ring provides 212 spell cost reduction. Using all 3 enchants nets you 623 cost reduction to base before factoring non-champion cost reduction percentages.

All stamina reduction enchants give you slightly more than 212 stamina cost reduction (including the cost of dodge rolls).

The new Champion reduction abilities are not added to your cost reduction percentages and are not affected by this 12.3% nerf. and the champion reduction isn't made less powerful when stacking cost reduction enchants.

So what can the person who doesn't love figuring out formulas take away from this?

All Cost reduction percentage bonuses were nerfed
Cost reduction enchants are more powerful
Spell Cost reduction on the neck slot is far weaker than on the ring slots[bug]
Many of the 5 pcs Set bonuses like Seducer, Archmage and Vicious Ophidian are now 1/8th less powerful than they are in 1.5

Domander · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

(Current as of 1.6.2)
I've spent hours of time testing and researching the various forms of cost reduction available in both live and PTS. I posted a similar thread earlier on Magicka costs and am making this thread to expand on my findings.

On live, calculating cost of an ability is simple and easy to understand. You take the base cost and subtract from it any cost reduction jewelry enchants you have. From this adjusted base number you multiply it by the sum of the cost reduction percentages you currently receive. The math is exact and the benefit of using a particular set or enchant is quite clear.

1.0 thru 1.5 Cost Formula = (x-y)*z
where x = base cost, y = sum of your reduction enchants, and z = sum of your reduction percentages.

In 1.6 all cost reduction percentage modifiers now have a 12.3% penalty applied to them.

This means that *all* cost reduction set bonuses (Seducer, Vicious Ophidian etc.), passives (Light/Mediums Armor, Bow, Dual Wield etc.), racials (Breton) and procs (Crystal Fragments) were nerfed by roughly 1/8th without so much as a mention of it in the patch notes.

1.6 Cost Reduction Formula = (X*(100-W)/100)-Z)*(1-(Y/100)*0.877)
where x = Base cost, y is sum of your Reduction percentages, z is the Sum of your Reduction Enchants, and w is the champion point reduction percentage.

Jewelry enchant reductions also bugged. A VR14 magicka reduction neck provides 198 spell cost reduction (the tooltip says 200) yet the same enchant on a ring provides 212 spell cost reduction. Using all 3 enchants nets you 623 cost reduction to base before factoring non-champion cost reduction percentages.

All stamina reduction enchants give you slightly more than 212 stamina cost reduction (including the cost of dodge rolls).

The new Champion reduction abilities are not added to your cost reduction percentages and are not affected by this 12.3% nerf. and the champion reduction isn't made less powerful when stacking cost reduction enchants.

So what can the person who doesn't love figuring out formulas take away from this?
All Cost reduction percentage bonuses were nerfed

Cost reduction enchants are more powerful

Spell Cost reduction on the neck slot is far weaker than on the ring slots[bug]

Many of the 5 pcs Set bonuses like Seducer, Archmage and Vicious Ophidian are now 1/8th less powerful than they are in 1.5

I read through it all, but I really appreciate the summary at the end. It sounds like there's still some bugs to be worked out, or tooltip errors.

Darkintellect · February 2015

I already bug reported it. Evocation from the Light Armor armor line states it gives 3% reduction for every piece of armor, yet my findings showed it giving 2.62% reduction.

All 7 pieces gave a 18.38% reduction and when subracted from the 21% you get 2.62%. So essentially you get the value for 6 pieces of gear instead of 7.

This is also happening with the Breton Magicka Reduction percentage. It states 1% per point spent for a maximum of 3%; however, the value is shown as 0.872% per point and a total of 2.62% instead of 3%.

Seducer was showing appropriate levels at 8.27% modification. My findings for the Magicka Cost Reduction enchants were at 200 point reduction but were also showing 212 for a total of 636 with three pieces enchanted.

My testing was on a base value naked Vr14 Breton with 0 points spent. I then invested full points in evocation and added the template light armor.

Each piece I added I recorded the values for 3 differing spells and found the results were static.

Domander · February 2015

Did you guys test the actual magicka cost vs the tooltip?

Hutuldur · February 2015

Thanks for the info, very useful.

Btw, is this a surprise that reductions were nerfed? If equipment/passive reductions weren't decreased, they would be quite OP with all the points on correct CPs that add more reductions. I think this is just easier way to do it that changing every equipment from nice even number of 3% to something like 2.7% reduction

Darkintellect · February 2015

Hutuldur wrote: »

Thanks for the info, very useful.

Btw, is this a surprise that reductions were nerfed? If equipment/passive reductions weren't decreased, they would be quite OP with all the points on correct CPs that add more reductions. I think this is just easier way to do it that changing every equipment from nice even number of 3% to something like 2.7% reduction

Then the tooltip should state the adjustment to the new value. Because currently, the reduction is the same as if Bretons lost an entire passive skill ability or Light Armor users lost an entire 7th armor piece worth of bonus to reduction.

Also, with 100 points in reduction, it caps at 15.8%. When you stack the 21% from armor, 3% from Breton, and 8% from Seducer, you get 32%. With the 15.8%, it gets to around 50%. This fits well in the scale of percentage values like with Armor and Spell Resist which are now hard capped at 60% reduction.

Dracane · February 2015

Cost reduction is not even the worst thing. Have you seen damage glyphs ? With 3 golden spell damage glyphs on my jewelry, my crystal shard deals 200-300 additional damage, which is nothing in 1.6

I am actually satisfied with the reduction glyphs. They have an impact, damage glyphs don't.

Ezareth · February 2015

Darkintellect wrote: »

I already bug reported it. Evocation from the Light Armor armor line states it gives 3% reduction for every piece of armor, yet my findings showed it giving 2.62% reduction.

All 7 pieces gave a 18.38% reduction and when subracted from the 21% you get 2.62%. So essentially you get the value for 6 pieces of gear instead of 7.

This is also happening with the Breton Magicka Reduction percentage. It states 1% per point spent for a maximum of 3%; however, the value is shown as 0.872% per point and a total of 2.62% instead of 3%.

Seducer was showing appropriate levels at 8.27% modification. My findings for the Magicka Cost Reduction enchants were at 200 point reduction but were also showing 212 for a total of 636 with three pieces enchanted.

My testing was on a base value naked Vr14 Breton with 0 points spent. I then invested full points in evocation and added the template light armor.

Each piece I added I recorded the values for 3 differing spells and found the results were static.

If you're showing seducer at 8.27 then you've made a mistake, likely by including another source of reduction that you weren't thinking about. Seducer is providing 8 *.877 = ~7.016% reduction exactly.

Domander wrote: »

Did you guys test the actual magicka cost vs the tooltip?

Yes, I spot checked on several spells at different reduction points and the tooltip always exactly matches the cost.

Hutuldur wrote: »

Thanks for the info, very useful.

Btw, is this a surprise that reductions were nerfed? If equipment/passive reductions weren't decreased, they would be quite OP with all the points on correct CPs that add more reductions. I think this is just easier way to do it that changing every equipment from nice even number of 3% to something like 2.7% reduction

Yes I agree it is likely why they did it, however I feel they should have been more transparent about it and the method they chose while being "easy" for them wasn't the most fair or balanced way to do it.

Really the only thing that changed from 1.5 to 1.6 was the addition of a maximum 15.8% reduction with the champion points. With the nerf they put in place some of us will end up spending 50 champion points or so just to be at the reduction amount we are live.

They could have provided a maximum reduction cap of 75% or something, or even better simply balanced other forms of reduction by removing them and replacing them with some equivalently powerful.

Hutuldur · February 2015

I prefer the current system to cap, but sure they could had been more open about it. Anyway, if they want to balance the system in the future, now it's easy modify the 0.877 multiplier and won't have to touch all skills/equipment separately.

Jar_Ek · February 2015

The problem with this, and in fact a huge amount of the introduction of the champion system, is that they do not seem to have thought through the impact across class and race. Sorcerers (for example) have 3x reduce cost passives within their class skill trees which will all take a hit, certain races will be hit with this whilst others are essentially buffed (i.e. any + max stat is essentially buffed without caps).

The introduction of the champion system is a mess at the moment and yet they have to introduce this in March!!!

Ezareth · February 2015

Hutuldur wrote: »

I prefer the current system to cap, but sure they could had been more open about it. Anyway, if they want to balance the system in the future, now it's easy modify the 0.877 multiplier and won't have to touch all skills/equipment separately.

Yes except 99%+ of the playerbase will be unaware when they're making decisions about gear and skill points exactly what benefit they are getting.

Jar_Ek wrote: »

The problem with this, and in fact a huge amount of the introduction of the champion system, is that they do not seem to have thought through the impact across class and race. Sorcerers (for example) have 3x reduce cost passives within their class skill trees which will all take a hit, certain races will be hit with this whilst others are essentially buffed (i.e. any + max stat is essentially buffed without caps).

The introduction of the champion system is a mess at the moment and yet they have to introduce this in March!!!

Exactly. The impact of this change changes the balance of many things and it didn't even receive a footnote in the patch notes!