About harness magicka...

Erondil · February 2015

Actually, Harness magicka absorbs damages from melee abilities magicka based (whip, concelead weapon etc). @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , is it a bug or intended? I hope itsa bug, because if its intended, magicka melee specs are dead : there is no advantages but only incovenients compare to magicka ranged. And Harness was OP and got nerfed few months ago... now its even better than before the nerf.

supernico · February 2015

It has always absorbed SPELL damage, melee or ranged.

Maulkin · February 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Actually, Harness magicka absorbs damages from melee abilities magicka based (whip, concelead weapon etc). @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , is it a bug or intended? I hope itsa bug, because if its intended, magicka melee specs are dead : there is no advantages but only incovenients compare to magicka ranged. And Harness was OP and got nerfed few months ago... now its even better than before the nerf.

Yep they said they would do that. That also brings balance imo.

Why would one magicka ability feed the harness and another bypass it? Both are spells, both scale off Max Magicka and Spell Dmg.

That was not a change on Harness that was a change on the skills that happened. They also crit with spell crit instead of weapon crit now.

It was a major complain for Sorcs in duels. You'd fight a DK with his awesome Reflective Scales and GDB and all your attacks would feed his harness while the Flame Whips would completely ignore yours.

Erondil · February 2015

supernico wrote: »

It has always absorbed SPELL damage, melee or ranged.

Not at all, it was at the beggining, but few months ago, they nerfed harness because it was too strong. Now its even stronger.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Actually, Harness magicka absorbs damages from melee abilities magicka based (whip, concelead weapon etc). @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , is it a bug or intended? I hope itsa bug, because if its intended, magicka melee specs are dead : there is no advantages but only incovenients compare to magicka ranged. And Harness was OP and got nerfed few months ago... now its even better than before the nerf.

Yep they said they would do that. That also brings balance imo.

Why would one magicka ability feed the harness and another bypass it? Both are spells, both scale off Max Magicka and Spell Dmg.

That was not a change on Harness that was a change on the skills that happened. They also crit with spell crit instead of weapon crit now.

It was a major complain for Sorcs in duels. You'd fight a DK with his awesome Reflective Scales and GDB and all your attacks would feed his harness while the Flame Whips would completely ignore yours.

Those abilities already scaled on magicka/spell damages, but physical crit and armor. For me, those abilities unabsorbed by harness would be the only advantage to be melee magicka and not ranged. On the actual version of 1.6, except for style, give me a reason to go melee magicka, while ranged got better damages/cost of spells, better HPS and less risks agaisnt melee stamina or sorc using daedric mines.
And still... Harness absorbed those damages few month ago.. why do you think they nerf it? Because it was too strong. And what is the point by make it even stronger now?
.

Dracane · February 2015

I hope, this is intended. Because DKs should gain no special treatment. A fire lash is magic in my eyes and should be absorbed by harness Magicka.

Maulkin · February 2015

Erondil wrote: »

supernico wrote: »

It has always absorbed SPELL damage, melee or ranged.

Not at all, it was at the beggining, but few months ago, they nerfed harness because it was too strong. Now its even stronger.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Actually, Harness magicka absorbs damages from melee abilities magicka based (whip, concelead weapon etc). @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , is it a bug or intended? I hope itsa bug, because if its intended, magicka melee specs are dead : there is no advantages but only incovenients compare to magicka ranged. And Harness was OP and got nerfed few months ago... now its even better than before the nerf.

Yep they said they would do that. That also brings balance imo.

Why would one magicka ability feed the harness and another bypass it? Both are spells, both scale off Max Magicka and Spell Dmg.

That was not a change on Harness that was a change on the skills that happened. They also crit with spell crit instead of weapon crit now.

It was a major complain for Sorcs in duels. You'd fight a DK with his awesome Reflective Scales and GDB and all your attacks would feed his harness while the Flame Whips would completely ignore yours.

Those abilities already scaled on magicka/spell damages, but physical crit and armor. For me, it would be the only advantage to be melee magicka and not ranged. On the actual version of 1.6, except for style, give me a reason to go melee magicka, while ranged got better damages/cost of spells, better HPS and less risks agaisnt melee stamina or sorc using daedric mines.
And still... Harness absorbed those damages few month ago.. why do you think they nerf it? Because it was too strong. And what is the point by make it even stronger now?
.

I'm not sure what confuses you. Spells that cost magicka but are mitigated by Armor and crit with weapon crit was completely out of whack. Everyone and their dog complained about that so they fixed it. If you want to hit armor you use stamina, if you use spells you hit spell res.

And no, they nerfed Harness because it kept giving magicka back for every DoT and because it mititgated weapon hits (2H,Bow etc). Not because it was too strong against melee spells.

Before the change, if you put Unstable Flame on somebody, he would get back about twice the Magicka the shield cost him in the first place. Thus DoTs had become a no-no against Harness as you'd give your opponent infinite magicka to keep himself shielded and healed.

The major advantage of melee spells as opposed to ranged are:
a) They are not reflectable
b) They have less mititgation from S&B (S&B passive blocks 15% extra damage from projectiles)

If that's not enough reason for you to go melee caster, then don't go melee caster.

Erondil · February 2015

Dracane wrote: »

I hope, this is intended. Because DKs should gain no special treatment. A fire lash is magic in my eyes and should be absorbed by harness Magicka.

I'm talking for NBs mostly, even if I guess its same for DKs melee caster : I made a lot of tests about the NB melee caster, and my conclusion is harness is the real problem for it actually. In my eyes, a magic dagger shouldnt be absorbed by harness.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

supernico wrote: »

It has always absorbed SPELL damage, melee or ranged.

Not at all, it was at the beggining, but few months ago, they nerfed harness because it was too strong. Now its even stronger.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Actually, Harness magicka absorbs damages from melee abilities magicka based (whip, concelead weapon etc). @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , is it a bug or intended? I hope itsa bug, because if its intended, magicka melee specs are dead : there is no advantages but only incovenients compare to magicka ranged. And Harness was OP and got nerfed few months ago... now its even better than before the nerf.

Yep they said they would do that. That also brings balance imo.

Why would one magicka ability feed the harness and another bypass it? Both are spells, both scale off Max Magicka and Spell Dmg.

That was not a change on Harness that was a change on the skills that happened. They also crit with spell crit instead of weapon crit now.

It was a major complain for Sorcs in duels. You'd fight a DK with his awesome Reflective Scales and GDB and all your attacks would feed his harness while the Flame Whips would completely ignore yours.

Those abilities already scaled on magicka/spell damages, but physical crit and armor. For me, it would be the only advantage to be melee magicka and not ranged. On the actual version of 1.6, except for style, give me a reason to go melee magicka, while ranged got better damages/cost of spells, better HPS and less risks agaisnt melee stamina or sorc using daedric mines.
And still... Harness absorbed those damages few month ago.. why do you think they nerf it? Because it was too strong. And what is the point by make it even stronger now?
.

I'm not sure what confuses you. Spells that cost magicka but are mitigated by Armor and crit with weapon crit was completely out of whack. Everyone and their dog complained about that so they fixed it. If you want to hit armor you use stamina, if you use spells you hit spell res.

And no, they nerfed Harness because it kept giving magicka back for every DoT and because it mititgated weapon hits (2H,Bow etc). Not because it was too strong against melee spells.

Before the change, if you put Unstable Flame on somebody, he would get back about twice the Magicka the shield cost him in the first place. Thus DoTs had become a no-no against Harness as you'd give your opponent infinite magicka to keep himself shielded and healed.

The major advantage of melee spells as opposed to ranged are:
a) They are not reflectable
b) They have less mititgation from S&B (S&B passive blocks 15% extra damage from projectiles)

If that's not enough reason for you to go melee caster, then don't go melee caster.

Every spells that cost magicka scaling on spell resist is a good change, I have no problems with that, just wanted to precise what you said.

If I remember right, Harness got 2 nerfs : one it absorbs only range spell damages, shield incrased but it doesnt reduce damage taken when up, and one it gives magicka back 3 times only. So they kept the 3 magicka returns, but they said *** off about the first nerf.

Your "advantages" are not enough to make this spec as viable as caster ranged. You can drop the S&B reflect with one light attack, you can kite easily the DK one. The mitigation on S&B is ***, since if your opponent block, even with a shield, you will drain his stamina very fast, with animcut light attacks, dots, shadow image...

On the other hand, ranged can put a lot of pressure (funnel health spam, cripple, entropy, shadow image, light attacks) with a good HPS (funnel health spam+entropy+rapid regen), got less magicka problems (lotus fan cost a lot and necessary on sorcs, concelead weapon cost much more than funnel health).

On live, ranged = sustain dps, melee = burst. (for NB I mean, I cant talk about other classes, I don't know them enough)
On PTS, it should be same but then... harness...

2 questions :
-How many NB magicka are melee on PTS? I saw me, Pynki and...?
-How many good players are running without harness?

Maulkin · February 2015

You're making a lot of assumptions some based on limited information about 1.6 and some that are completely wrong.

Dropping a S&B reflect with a light attack means you get a 4" stun. It's how I get my kills 9/10 times. And how exactly do you kite a DK with Scales as a ranged caster NB, please tell me I'm curious to know. I have a v14 NB and if I don't go melee I can do nothing against Scales.

Also S&B mitigation can be a life saver for light armor builds (after the nerfs to LA mitigation) and the stamina cost can get mitigated by CP passives. Have you tried putting passives on that? Cause when I tested yesterday, with 40+ champion points on that I could block in spellscar forever with my light armor Sorc.

Funnel Health cost is focked atm. That's a bug that's been reported, not a comparison on the Concealed Weapon cost. On live there is more cost balance

On your last two questions:
- Not many. The reason is cause they focked up Ambush making it stamina only. If that was made to be magicka you'd be fine. Cause Ambush + Death Stroke would have been immense
- I'm a Sorc not running Harness. Whether I'm good enough to pass your test I don't know. Dracane that posted above is another one i believe. Harness is overrated.

Erondil · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

You're making a lot of assumptions some based on limited information about 1.6 and some that are completely wrong.

Dropping a S&B reflect with a light attack means you get a 4" stun. It's how I get my kills 9/10 times. And how exactly do you kite a DK with Scales as a ranged caster NB, please tell me I'm curious to know. I have a v14 NB and if I don't go melee I can do nothing against Scales.

Also S&B mitigation can be a life saver for light armor builds (after the nerfs to LA mitigation) and the stamina cost can get mitigated by CP passives. Have you tried putting passives on that? Cause when I tested yesterday, with 40+ champion points on that I could block in spellscar forever with my light armor Sorc.

Funnel Health cost is focked atm. That's a bug that's been reported, not a comparison on the Concealed Weapon cost. On live there is more cost balance

On your last two questions:
- Not many. The reason is cause they focked up Ambush making it stamina only. If that was made to be magicka you'd be fine. Cause Ambush + Death Stroke would have been immense
- I'm a Sorc not running Harness. Whether I'm good enough to pass your test I don't know. Dracane that posted above is another one i believe. Harness is overrated.

The reflect dont stun when it hit a shield, you can reflect the reflect...
You can kite a DK by heavy attack resto, its not a lot, but scales drains his magicka while your still full. Legendary Mage did same with his destro build. Use shadow image to make a gap. Another way : S&B secondary (the ranged build I tried was resto+S&B) reflect. Another way : use harness, than do 2 funnel health + 2 animcut light attack = you didnt take any damages, he used more magicka than what you used, his scales are down.
If you want to deal damages as melee magicka, you have to drop S&B.

Honestly, ambush nerf is not the worst thing for melee magicka NB. Yes, you lost a lot of burst, but with some others combo (entropy, grim focus, piercing mark...) you have easily damages back. Believe me, I think to be one of the players who did the most of tests about the melee magicka NB on pvp, and the biggest problem I noticed were harness, daedric mines and stamina 2h were anoying too (not that much with my funnel spammer). BoL is actually the only real incovenient for my NB ranged compare to melee.
I did much better with a funnel spam build than with my melee build on sorcs, while I'm much more experienced and made more tests with this one. Why?

ofc, a sorc can run without harness, it doesnt mean its not op. After all, on duels on live,my NB run mostly without fear... thats not the question I asked

cschwingeb14_ESO · February 2015

To answer the original question, they do intend this behavior (abilities that cost magicka go against spell resist, are affected by magicka harness, use spell crit, increase in damage with spell power and magicka). It's part of simplifying their combat system, so people don't need to refer to spreadsheets to see whats going on with specific abilities

And at no point was ranged vs melee a consideration for what harness absorbs.

Erondil · February 2015

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

To answer the original question, they do intend this behavior (abilities that cost magicka go against spell resist, are affected by magicka harness, use spell crit, increase in damage with spell power and magicka). It's part of simplifying their combat system, so people don't need to refer to spreadsheets to see whats going on with specific abilities

And at no point was ranged vs melee a consideration for what harness absorbs.

So yes, they destroyed magicka melee...

Trayyacakes · February 2015

Erondil wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

To answer the original question, they do intend this behavior (abilities that cost magicka go against spell resist, are affected by magicka harness, use spell crit, increase in damage with spell power and magicka). It's part of simplifying their combat system, so people don't need to refer to spreadsheets to see whats going on with specific abilities

And at no point was ranged vs melee a consideration for what harness absorbs.

So yes, they destroyed magicka melee...

The simple solution is to just give all melee class skills a stamina morph. I really don't know how whip didn't get one...

Dracane · February 2015

Harness Magicka is overrated. I don't even use it against melee's, only against casters. ( does it really absorb things like flame lash and the NB teleport strike )

Erondil · February 2015

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

To answer the original question, they do intend this behavior (abilities that cost magicka go against spell resist, are affected by magicka harness, use spell crit, increase in damage with spell power and magicka). It's part of simplifying their combat system, so people don't need to refer to spreadsheets to see whats going on with specific abilities

And at no point was ranged vs melee a consideration for what harness absorbs.

So yes, they destroyed magicka melee...

The simple solution is to just give all melee class skills a stamina morph. I really don't know how whip didn't get one...

I like magicka melee style, as NB, I could run stamina easily with class skills. But its not what I want. Its not the problem.

Erondil · February 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Harness magicka is overrated. I don't even use it against melee's, only against casters. ( does it really absorb things like flame lash and the NB teleport strike )

on PTS yes.

Dracane · February 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Harness magicka is overrated. I don't even use it against melee's, only against casters. ( does it really absorb things like flame lash and the NB teleport strike )

on PTS yes.

Sounds good to me actually. I'm not going to use it, until it is confirmed to stay.
I would love that. Because even I (an enemy of shield stacking) must come to recognize, that surviving against the op melee's is impossible without at least 2 shields.

Maybe not at the beginning. But the 3600 CP is making melee sooo freaking op, mage's are so dead.

ToRelax · February 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Harness magicka is overrated. I don't even use it against melee's, only against casters. ( does it really absorb things like flame lash and the NB teleport strike )

on PTS yes.

Sounds good to me actually. I'm not going to use it, until it is confirmed to stay.
I would love that. Because even I (an enemy of shield stacking) must come to recognize, that surviving against the op melee's is impossible without at least 2 shields.

Maybe not at the beginning. But the 3600 CP is making melee sooo freaking op, mage's are so dead.

Only stamina. Your post makes no sense.

Iyas · February 2015

Harness shouldnt absorb magicka melee styles like concealed weapon and flame whip.

It makes no sense and is a nerf to melee magicka play style

Domander · February 2015

Iyas wrote: »

Harness shouldnt absorb magicka melee styles like concealed weapon and flame whip.

It makes no sense and is a nerf to melee magicka play style

I agree, it turns magicka melee into a joke.

Ezareth · February 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Actually, Harness magicka absorbs damages from melee abilities magicka based (whip, concelead weapon etc). @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , is it a bug or intended? I hope itsa bug, because if its intended, magicka melee specs are dead : there is no advantages but only incovenients compare to magicka ranged. And Harness was OP and got nerfed few months ago... now its even better than before the nerf.

Harness isn't better than before the nerf. The old Harness was hit by *everything* and ever single piece of damage returned magicka. You could stack it behind 3 shields and never run out of magicka while you were attacked. You could stand in caltrops with an empty bar and completely fill it in a few seconds.

People I think are going to be looking more and more at Dampen Magic over harness magicka anyways. It's actually better than Conjured ward against magick damage.

Aimelin · February 2015

people need to stop asking for nerfs for things that don't need em, if anything zos needs to nerf dks more