2h/staffs/dual wield/bow damage

Exstazik · February 2015

Dracane · February 2015

It's always the same in MMO's

staves always deal the least amount of damage (obviously bows either in ESO)

Staves are bad for magic. Melee's have stronger spells than staff users. This is not fair and especially, it makes no sense to me.

DeLindsay · February 2015

Irony is that 2H hits like a Mack Truck compared to the others.

Gorthax · February 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Irony is that 2H hits like a Mack Truck compared to the others.

that they do.......26k crit charge says it hurts lol and people wonder why everyone shield stacks like there is no tomorrow lol

Exstazik · February 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Irony is that 2H hits like a Mack Truck compared to the others.

that they do.......26k crit charge says it hurts lol and people wonder why everyone shield stacks like there is no tomorrow lol

(1346+20% (med passive+dawnbreaker)+6% if templar)+20% rally=2035

Staff 1144+20%=1372
I think numbers speak for themselves...

Vordae · February 2015

Dracane wrote: »

It's always the same in MMO's staves always deal the least amount of damage (obviously bows either in ESO)

Staves are bad for magic. Melee's have stronger spells than staff users. This is not fair and especially, it makes no sense to me.

It's a Ranged vs Melee balancing tool. Melee put themselves in a riskier position there for they do more Damage. Ranged is safer so it does slightly less damage. Melee tend to have to avoid more aoe's and exit the range at which they can Dps were Ranged can Dps on the move and have less aoe to avoid.

Xeniph · February 2015

You forget that the weapon damage stacks (albeit weirdly) with dual wield.

Melee damage on weapons are higher to compensate for the risk of being within 5 meters to do damage, rather than 28m+.

Which is why bows delve for the same damage as staves.

This is NORMAL in ALL games. And never going to change unless you want to see a ranged only game.

*Also, you should probably just consolidate all your threads pertaining to this issue instead of creating them over and over.

Ps. I'll agree with you that it needs to change when I can Light/Heavy attack and use all abilities at the same range as magicka skills, using a 2h sword.

Pss. We are likely to see a change on Rally/Momentum back to only effecting 2h. Which is perfectly fine as there are plenty of other ways to get this buff.

Derra · February 2015

DW has more weapondmg and spellpower than any other weapon set when equipped. Should add that to top post.

asteldian · February 2015

Yup, melee historically has always had the damage advantage. The only exception is when games mess up, then you have casters/range everywhere and no melee. Eventually they patch out their mistake.
In perfect situations, a melee should always produce more dps than range. This is because the perfect situation almost never happens and so almost every fight in a game is a dps loss compared to a test dummy - due to having to avoid more mechanics or high movement meaning disconnects and disrupting rotation. The result is that in most fights the dps is fairly even, in some fights melee are superior due to minimal movement, and in other fights casters are superior due to high movement.
If range does equal damage then in low movement fights they equal melee and in all other situations they win. This results in melee being obsolete.

Exstazik · February 2015

Vordae wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

It's always the same in MMO's staves always deal the least amount of damage (obviously bows either in ESO)

Staves are bad for magic. Melee's have stronger spells than staff users. This is not fair and especially, it makes no sense to me.

It's a Ranged vs Melee balancing tool. Melee put themselves in a riskier position there for they do more Damage. Ranged is safer so it does slightly less damage. Melee tend to have to avoid more aoe's and exit the range at which they can Dps were Ranged can Dps on the move and have less aoe to avoid.

As it ok that if i take 2h on my magicka build my spell power will be more than with destro staff?

Derra wrote: »

DW has more weapondmg and spellpower than any other weapon set when equipped. Should add that to top post.

2h mace ignore 20% of target armour.Didn't test it bit i think 2h mace>dual wield

Dracane · February 2015

Melee weapons can have higher damage, but only to weapon damage please.
Melee weapons should not increase spell damage !

Derra · February 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Melee weapons can have higher damage, but only to weapon damage please.
Melee weapons should not increase spell damage !

Well it is kind of a saving grace for 2h hybrid sorcs

. They are already in terrible shape as of 1.6.
Also Magica DKs and NBs seem to have their damage balanced to the fact that offensive melee weapon sets offer higher spellpower.

asteldian · February 2015

Exstazik wrote: »

Vordae wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

It's always the same in MMO's staves always deal the least amount of damage (obviously bows either in ESO)

Staves are bad for magic. Melee's have stronger spells than staff users. This is not fair and especially, it makes no sense to me.

It's a Ranged vs Melee balancing tool. Melee put themselves in a riskier position there for they do more Damage. Ranged is safer so it does slightly less damage. Melee tend to have to avoid more aoe's and exit the range at which they can Dps were Ranged can Dps on the move and have less aoe to avoid.

As it ok that if i take 2h on my magicka build my spell power will be more than with destro staff?

Derra wrote: »

DW has more weapondmg and spellpower than any other weapon set when equipped. Should add that to top post.

2h mace ignore 20% of target armour.Didn't test it bit i think 2h mace>dual wield

Sure, you sacrifice range and the ability to regain magicka via heavy attacks and cannot use destro spells and of course your weaving would suck for damage as stamina would dictate the damage. Optimisation wise it is terrible, but flavorwise go for it.
Due to it being terrible, there is no balance issue here.

Exstazik · February 2015

[/quote]

Sure, you sacrifice range and the ability to regain magicka via heavy attacks and cannot use destro spells and of course your weaving would suck for damage as stamina would dictate the damage. Optimisation wise it is terrible, but flavorwise go for it.
Due to it being terrible, there is no balance issue here.
[/quote]
i'm playing sorc and due to 3 fact:
1) 2h/dual wield will give me more spell power than destro
2) entropy>CS
3)entropy>surge

I will wear 2h/dual wield ,stack spell damage use entropy and wait for CF proc....."Play as you want said ZOS to Us"......

But soon we will see 1.6.2. and something can change ^^

Lynx7386 · February 2015

The staff and bow are both ranged weapons which are less risky for the wielder to attack with than a melee weapon.

Dual wield gets a damage bonus based on both weapons equipped, 2h gets a higher base damage value to compensate.

Nothing wrong here.

Lynx7386 · February 2015

2h mace ignore 20% of target armour.Didn't test it bit i think 2h mace>dual wield

Dual wielding two one handed maces provides the same effect.

Exstazik · February 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The staff and bow are both ranged weapons which are less risky for the wielder to attack with than a melee weapon.

Dual wield gets a damage bonus based on both weapons equipped, 2h gets a higher base damage value to compensate.

Nothing wrong here.

Don't forget that The staff get +20% spell damage buff and 2h get +20% weapon buff+8% from dawnbreaker+12% from medium passive and if you are templar +6% more ^^

Also dual wield/2h users have more def than staff users.....yeah staff users can use shields but it's didn't up DPS

Lynx7386 · February 2015

2h get +20% weapon buff+8% from dawnbreaker+12% from medium passive and if you are templar +6% more ^^

And none of those are specific to only two handed weapons. The bonuses from dawnbreaker, medium armor, or templar passives apply no matter what type of weapon you're using (other than staff). The 20% weapon damage boost from 2h can be put on an off bar and will buff any other type of weapon on your main bar.

Erock25 · February 2015

I'm confused. Is the op saying that stacking weapon dmg buffs with a 2h is making his spells hit harder? I didn't think that was how it worked.

Derra · February 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm confused. Is the op saying that stacking weapon dmg buffs with a 2h is making his spells hit harder? I didn't think that was how it worked.

No but using 2h or dw isntead of a staff WILL make your class spells hit harder.

killedbyping · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm confused. Is the op saying that stacking weapon dmg buffs with a 2h is making his spells hit harder? I didn't think that was how it worked.

No but using 2h or dw isntead of a staff WILL make your class spells hit harder.

This. Still cant understand why in the world i have more spell power with DW or even 1h/S compared to staff. Those kind of weapon should NOT give any spell damage what so ever or this will make Block Casting and 1H/S builds in PVP even more OP.
I wont even go for melee lol, i will just use ranged spells which will deal 1.5x more dmg haha.
Also it will give me additional set slot.

Exstazik · February 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm confused. Is the op saying that stacking weapon dmg buffs with a 2h is making his spells hit harder? I didn't think that was how it worked.

nope.2h melee weapon gives in ~1,17165 spell damage more then staff
In numbers:
staff vs 2h/dual wield for weapon dmg vs 2h/dual wield for spell dmg

const=1000
staff:1000*1,2=1200
2h/dual wield for spell dmg: (1000*1,17165)*1,2=1405,98
2h/dual wield for weapon dmg: (1000*1,17165*1,2)*1,2=1687,176

Dracane · February 2015

Exstazik wrote: »

Don't forget that The staff get +20% spell damage buff

Where ? Must be a new buff.....

Derra · February 2015

killedbyping wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm confused. Is the op saying that stacking weapon dmg buffs with a 2h is making his spells hit harder? I didn't think that was how it worked.

No but using 2h or dw isntead of a staff WILL make your class spells hit harder.

This. Still cant understand why in the world i have more spell power with DW or even 1h/S compared to staff.
I wont even go for melee lol, i will just use ranged spells which will deal 1.5x more dmg haha.
Also it will give me additional set slot.

The set slot is what makes this actually good. You can aquire over 350 (unbuffed) more spellpower at the cost of ranged light attacks. It is actually desirable to do so if you don´t need destro skills for your dmg rotation. Terrible design imho.

killedbyping · February 2015

Im just hoping that this was not intended -.-

asteldian · February 2015

It's a side effect of weapons giving Damage, not specific damage type. You could argue that no staff or weapon should give any kind of spell power as class skills are not reliant on a weapon. Problem you would have is a balancing nightmare trying to make class skills scale properly.
It makes no sense that using a sword would instantly make your class skills crap. Sure, you can try argue that 'a staff is a focus which is why it improves your spell power' but that's nonsense too.

So, you need melee weapons to do more damage because that is how you balance melee against range, however, you need class skills to scale so they need to use damage too (and for stamina users by having a decent spell power it means despite a low magicka pool, your magicka class skills can still do something).

Essentially, in PvE it is not an issue, as mentioned before, it is a terrible idea DPS wise to be spell focused but with a melee weapon. PvP however I can see it being more of an issue.

I guess the smart thing to do would have been to have all weapons the same, but for melee weapon lines add an additional effect on one passive which increased the Damage of your Weapon by X% (This bonus applied to Weapon Damage stat only and not the universal Damage) - this would be an additional effect beyond the passive which adds effects dependant on what type of weapon you use

cozmon3c_ESO · February 2015

Exstazik wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm confused. Is the op saying that stacking weapon dmg buffs with a 2h is making his spells hit harder? I didn't think that was how it worked.

nope.2h melee weapon gives in ~1,17165 spell damage more then staff
In numbers:
staff vs 2h/dual wield for weapon dmg vs 2h/dual wield for spell dmg

const=1000
staff:1000*1,2=1200
2h/dual wield for spell dmg: (1000*1,17165)*1,2=1405,98
2h/dual wield for weapon dmg: (1000*1,17165*1,2)*1,2=1687,176

you didnt take into account of light attack weaving between spells. doing this with a two hander and dual wield as a caster is not very viable and wont even be able to keep up with the destro staff weaving.

Alphashado · February 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm confused. Is the op saying that stacking weapon dmg buffs with a 2h is making his spells hit harder? I didn't think that was how it worked.

nope.2h melee weapon gives in ~1,17165 spell damage more then staff
In numbers:
staff vs 2h/dual wield for weapon dmg vs 2h/dual wield for spell dmg

const=1000
staff:1000*1,2=1200
2h/dual wield for spell dmg: (1000*1,17165)*1,2=1405,98
2h/dual wield for weapon dmg: (1000*1,17165*1,2)*1,2=1687,176

you didnt take into account of light attack weaving between spells. doing this with a two hander and dual wield as a caster is not very viable and wont even be able to keep up with the destro staff weaving.

That is exactly what I was going to say. A rotation using pure class skills is likely going to run out of magicka much sooner on sustained fights. So while using DW might be fine for PvP, it's going to be terrible for PvE sustained dps.