Sooooo... What's the point in using Negate Magic now? (honest question)

Yusuf · February 2015

Negate Magic as it stands in 1.6.1 is simply not worth 190 ultimatepoints.

It now only dispells magic on the initial cast and afterwards anyone and everything can cast any magic inside the field of Negate Magic.

In my opinion sorcerers are far better off using the Storm Atronach or Meteor or Power Overload as ultimates whether its pve or pvp.

So i guess my question is: What is the intended purpose of Negate Magic now?
It should be renamed into Negate-one-spell-and-buff-group-ultimate or something.

Panda244 · February 2015

Yusuf wrote: »

Negate Magic as it stands in 1.6.1 is simply not worth 190 ultimatepoints.

It now only dispells magic on the initial cast and afterwards anyone and everything can cast any magic inside the field of Negate Magic.

In my opinion sorcerers are far better off using the Storm Atronach or Meteor or Power Overload as ultimates whether its pve or pvp.

So i guess my question is: What is the intended purpose of Negate Magic now?
It should be renamed into Negate-one-spell-and-buff-group-ultimate or something.

It's absolutely pointless. Period. Use Overload, it's faaaaaaaaaaar better than Negate or Storm Atro, it's on Par with Meteor but it does more damage if you just use the light attacks over and over.

Yusuf · February 2015

The thing is i don't like to be pigeonholed and Negate Magic was fine as it is on live atm.
And i know how strong (and fun) Power Overload is but it shouldn't be our only viable option.

ZOS tried to promote build-diversity with 1.6 but in reality we're forced from one corner into the next.

Black_Wolf88 · February 2015

also, in game on pts 1.6.1 the tooltip for negate ultimates still says that it removed all effects all the time until it ends - which is now wrong and miss leading.
they changed the skill but forgot the important part in the skill tooltip.

the sad part now in pvp will be that as soon enemies see the negate they will pop ultimates inside it to counter it and whoever is inside it. pretty much useless as you guys already said.

Snit · February 2015

Yusuf wrote: »

The thing is i don't like to be pigeonholed and Negate Magic was fine as it is on live atm.
And i know how strong (and fun) Power Overload is but it shouldn't be our only viable option.

ZOS tried to promote build-diversity with 1.6 but in reality we're forced from one corner into the next.

In 1.5, you really had to run Negate on one bar, and you probably ran Flawless Dawnbreaker on the other. I felt like we had zero choice in ultimate for most situations.

In 1.6, we can choose between Meteor, Overload, Atronach and Soul Assault. I can't say I'm entirely happy to see one of our best class abilities, Negate, more or less removed from the game, but I find all of those others more fun to use. This particular nerf is not all bad.

s7732425ub17_ESO · February 2015

You can still negate all ultimates in an area (DK Standard, Nova) and the healing debuff in AA.

Ezareth · February 2015

I think it is still very useful. The new buffs provided by Absorption Field are sick and you also get to negate an ult or spell of your choice and prevent casting while under it unless immune/break free.

Recremen · February 2015

It depends on how you use your Negate, it seems. One live, a group in PVP that runs with many sorcerers (where sorcerer == negate, end of discussion) will drop them both preemptively and reactively, while those who don't have as many sorcerers online at the time are forced to drop them almost exclusively reactively. Battles are heavily influenced by the number of sorcerers in your party.

By changing the skill so that they can't drop preemptively, they're mildly leveling the playing field, such that evenly-matched teams aren't made or broken by the fact that Shakira The Negate Fiend is out sick tonight.

It's still an entirely viable ultimate in PVP, from what I'm seeing, it's just not as painfully unbalancing.

I've little idea how this change affects PVE, though. I hear it's creating huge difficulties for certain Trial fights. Anyone know about that?

XEVENEX · February 2015

The change was necessary because group combat on teamspeak sounded like this:

Negate 1 down
Negate 2 down
Negate 3 down
Negate 4 down
Negate 1 down...

Black_Wolf88 · February 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

The change was necessary because group combat on teamspeak sounded like this:

Negate 1 down
Negate 2 down
Negate 3 down
Negate 4 down
Negate 1 down...

even without teh change to negate that rotation would still be nerfed quite a lot due to the changes in how you gain ultimate. sure, you may have many sorcerers with negate but they wound only be able to use it once before needing time to recharge ultimate.

s7732425ub17_ESO · February 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

The change was necessary because group combat on teamspeak sounded like this:

Negate 1 down
Negate 2 down
Negate 3 down
Negate 4 down
Negate 1 down...

Nova 1 down
Nova 2 down
Nova 3 down
Nova 1 down
Veil 1 down
Veil 2 down
Veil 3 down
Veil 1 down

Domander · February 2015

It still silences doesn't it?

XEVENEX · February 2015

Domander wrote: »

It still silences doesn't it?

if you are in the bubble and not CC immune then, yes.

SokarGoldberg · February 2015

Some things never change.. On Sorc you don't change your ultimate because you have a choice between some awesome (or good) Ultimates you can choose from.

You change your Ultimate towards the one that sucks the least at that moment.

The only reason why Overload is considered again is because Dawnbreaker doesn't help Spell Damage Players anymore..

C0pp3rhead · February 2015

I love negate as is. Mind you, I play a Templar. It's an invaluable skill for both defense and offense. If I lay down Nova or a teammate lays down Standard, Bat Swarm, or Veil, nobody with common sense will wander into that area. Unlike these abilities, Negate does no damage. It should be worth the ultimate cost. Instead of dealing damage, it makes sense that Negate prevents players from dealing magicka-based damage. Just like using a Templar's Eclipse however, stamina builds have no trouble with this ultimate. It has effects on one sort of player, but is useless against others. I think this constitutes a fair balance.

Also, this:

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

The change was necessary because group combat on teamspeak sounded like this:
Negate 1 down
Negate 2 down
Negate 3 down
Negate 4 down
Negate 1 down...

Nova 1 down
Nova 2 down
Nova 3 down
Nova 1 down
Veil 1 down
Veil 2 down
Veil 3 down
Veil 1 down

Derra · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I think it is still very useful. The new buffs provided by Absorption Field are sick and you also get to negate an ult or spell of your choice and prevent casting while under it unless immune/break free.

You can´t be serious? The buffs by absorbtion field are the same you get when gulping a tripot (you were not talking about the speedbuff were you?).
A one time remove to ground effects i would consider for 100 ultimate. For 190 i won´t even skill it. Completely pointless especially due to the fact that you can still break free out of it.

Edit: Meteor offers more area denial (via dmg) than a negate now. Just think about that.

xherics · February 2015

Just read my opinion if you are interested:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1541426/#Comment_1541426

C0pp3rhead · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I think it is still very useful. The new buffs provided by Absorption Field are sick and you also get to negate an ult or spell of your choice and prevent casting while under it unless immune/break free.

You can´t be serious? The buffs by absorbtion field are the same you get when gulping a tripot (you were not talking about the speedbuff were you?).
A one time remove to ground effects i would consider for 100 ultimate. For 190 i won´t even skill it. Completely pointless especially due to the fact that you can still break free out of it.

Edit: Meteor offers more area denial (via dmg) than a negate now. Just think about that.

Actually, most players won't get the full benefits of the buffs because many of them will already have the major buffs applied. Just like how my +spellcri/+spellpower/+magicka tripots are worthless.

Derra · February 2015

I have honestly not even thought about that implication if you think about it that way most potions are worthless now. This might have something to do with adding value to the crown store potions.

Thats a different topic though.

DeathDealer19 · February 2015

I really don't see the issue with negate. In pvp, negate is crippling to a keep or resource flip. A single negate can wipe a group of 20 which is so terribly unbalanced its not funny. I mean seriously you can have 20 people try to flip 2 flags in a keep and if you have 2 negates, its game over. I don't feel itll be as bad now that ultimate gain is a bit more balanced but still. Its still an amazing ability, the changes just make it so you have to time when to drop it. You can still instantly wipe anything in the playing field which is pretty damn OP. not to mention the other buffs from it

Derra · February 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

I really don't see the issue with negate. In pvp, negate is crippling to a keep or resource flip. A single negate can wipe a group of 20 which is so terribly unbalanced its not funny. I mean seriously you can have 20 people try to flip 2 flags in a keep and if you have 2 negates, its game over. I don't feel itll be as bad now that ultimate gain is a bit more balanced but still. Its still an amazing ability, the changes just make it so you have to time when to drop it. You can still instantly wipe anything in the playing field which is pretty damn OP. not to mention the other buffs from it

You realize that all negate does is dispell ground effects one time and forces you to breakfree one time when standing in it?
There is no more area denial associated with that spell. It used to be crippling now its laughable.

Valnas · February 2015

i wish it still gave a burst amount instead of a HoT to your resources for 12 seconds, but it was decidedly OP when used offensively

Tankqull · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

I really don't see the issue with negate. In pvp, negate is crippling to a keep or resource flip. A single negate can wipe a group of 20 which is so terribly unbalanced its not funny. I mean seriously you can have 20 people try to flip 2 flags in a keep and if you have 2 negates, its game over. I don't feel itll be as bad now that ultimate gain is a bit more balanced but still. Its still an amazing ability, the changes just make it so you have to time when to drop it. You can still instantly wipe anything in the playing field which is pretty damn OP. not to mention the other buffs from it

You realize that all negate does is dispell ground effects one time and forces you to breakfree one time when standing in it?
There is no more area denial associated with that spell. It used to be crippling now its laughable.

don´t forget every ground ae casted into or from within during its duration grants 12% of each resource (if you have chosen the proper morph) wich is gone with 1.6

Kyoma · February 2015

Yes, in pvp most groups would do battle in terms of who negates the best. The thing is, this nerf actually hits PvE alot more than PvP usage, and in PvE it wasn't that OP to begin with. The general nerf to ulti gain would have been sufficient to make people use their negate more strategically and require the need for a good rotation. But as things are now, negate is pointless, mobs basically "break out" right away (not even with the animation) and new effects can just be placed right under it.

Good Example: In AA at the second boss, when the Nullifier does it's wirlwind aoe it is standard to drop a negate. Sure, the effect is still negated but 2 seconds later you just get another one.

So....why the suddent extra nerf to negate without even seeing what the general ulti changes would do to its usage?

Yusuf · February 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

I really don't see the issue with negate. In pvp, negate is crippling to a keep or resource flip. A single negate can wipe a group of 20 which is so terribly unbalanced its not funny. I mean seriously you can have 20 people try to flip 2 flags in a keep and if you have 2 negates, its game over. I don't feel itll be as bad now that ultimate gain is a bit more balanced but still. Its still an amazing ability, the changes just make it so you have to time when to drop it. You can still instantly wipe anything in the playing field which is pretty damn OP. not to mention the other buffs from it

If you'd have asked me a few months ago i would've traded negate for the DK's battle-roar-passive any day. But we don't have that passive, neither do we have an ultimate that makes us unkillable for 10 seconds, or an ultimate that reduces the damage your whole group takes (veil reduces damage by 30%, suppression field by 8%, that's a joke) or a synergy that CCs enemies and the list goes on.

We have (had) an are-denial-ultimate that is essentially there to force enemies to cc-break once now. We could just as well use the Atronach or the Meteor and deal damage while having the same effect.

lathbury · February 2015

Kyoma wrote: »

Yes, in pvp most groups would do battle in terms of who negates the best. The thing is, this nerf actually hits PvE alot more than PvP usage, and in PvE it wasn't that OP to begin with. The general nerf to ulti gain would have been sufficient to make people use their negate more strategically and require the need for a good rotation. But as things are now, negate is pointless, mobs basically "break out" right away (not even with the animation) and new effects can just be placed right under it.

Good Example: In AA at the second boss, when the Nullifier does it's wirlwind aoe it is standard to drop a negate. Sure, the effect is still negated but 2 seconds later you just get another one.

So....why the suddent extra nerf to negate without even seeing what the general ulti changes would do to its usage?

I'm hoping bolstering darkness can pick up the slack in pve or barrier but wont have a chance to test in trials till it goes live.

OtarTheMad · February 2015

Negate took a serious hit here because now it seems while I can drop it to get rid of an enemy ultimate another enemy can charge in right after I drop mine and drop his and it's not negated... so if friendly players are standing in the negate they could be screwed if they don't dodge roll or get out in time.

This kind of kills the ability a little. To answer your question... I am not sure what the point of it is now... I won't be running it most likely. I'll probably switch to Meteor (please don't nerf that) and either Batswarm or Atronach.