ZoS: Please Stop Animation Canceling (aka Spell Weaving)

Alphashado · February 2015

I don't mind it. I kinda suck at doing it sometimes and I still don't have an issue with it.

Carnophobe · February 2015

I use Animation Canceling when I damage deal with my usual group, I'd be letting them down if I didn't; I want to perform at my best. Yet I still think the mechanic is lame. To me it seems only one step up from button bashing, it makes combat feel and look jerky and it's a strange thing to have to learn to be at your best for a game in which combat otherwise feels rather paced and fluid and which nowhere teaches you how to do it.

Regardless of anything else, 'Animation Canceling'; what's the point in having animations at all if you're just going to cancel them?

niocwy · February 2015

Animation cancelling and block casting are not exploits, nor bug. They are just how the game works.

Deal with it.

Carnophobe · February 2015

I'm not saying it's an exploit, nor am I saying it's a bug. And I'm completely fine with block casting, that I at least see the point of. But animation canceling.. well, I've made my opinion on the subject clear; and I tried very hard to do so without using the word 'bug' or 'exploit'. What's the point of having a forum for people to voice their opinions on or of asking for player feedback if people are just expected to 'deal with it'?
That said, and I am by no means an expert, but it seems to me like animation canceling and light attack weaving are only possible due to an anomaly of the coding. And that the fact that ZoS has done nothing about it is due to.. well, I can only speculate. And like I said, not an expert.
What I'm curious to know is whether or not these will be possible on the console versions.

pppontus · February 2015

They basically remade all of the animations to support spell weaving. I think that tells you the story of how much ZOS likes it

Vordae · February 2015

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Animation Canceling is allowed by ZOS and they encourage it....
As for blockcasting, everyone does it. If you don't, and you die, then you should start.

It's a know exploit and has never once been encouraged. ZoS simply doesn't ban or suspend for it.

They created there whole new ult generation system around light attack weaving. That is a pretty big we support this mechanic in my opinion.

Kragorn · February 2015

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Animation Canceling is allowed by ZOS and they encourage it....
As for blockcasting, everyone does it. If you don't, and you die, then you should start.

It's a know exploit and has never once been encouraged. ZoS simply doesn't ban or suspend for it.

Please post a link to where ZOS declared it so.

LawfulEvil · February 2015

I do the weave thing. As it is now dumb not to but I do not like it and wish it would go away. I feel it breaks immersion and to be frank lazy on the Devs part. The min/maxer can rejoice at their higher DPS numbers.

Carnophobe · February 2015

The fact that ZOS has had to redesign the Ultimate and other Skills' systems is indicative that it is not working as intended. And that they do so rather than fixing something which isn't intended; I find that rather worrying.

TehMagnus · February 2015

Not an exploit L2P

Jaerlach · February 2015

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1479415#Comment_1479415

See here for information and links.

Carnophobe · February 2015

Thanks Jaerlach, looks like an interesting thread and I will be sure to give it a closer inspection when I have some time.

asteldian · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

They basically remade all of the animations to support spell weaving. I think that tells you the story of how much ZOS likes it

Weirdly I find weaving less fluid in 1.6 particularly with some skills, wrecking blow for example, I much prefered 1.5 weaving with it.

Jaerlach · February 2015

fwiw, a forum admin just marked my post as an answer to that thread, which I'd say is a good demonstration that it reflects their intent.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

Carnophobe wrote: »

The fact that ZOS has had to redesign the Ultimate and other Skills' systems is indicative that it is not working as intended. And that they do so rather than fixing something which isn't intended; I find that rather worrying.

Redesign of the Ult system supports basically requires using Light/Heavy attacks, and Light/Heavy/Weaving had zero effect on Ult generation in 1.5, crits and passives did??

If anything, they sped things up so weaving was not as necessary to hit the numbers. Light attacks go off like a rocket now. There's not as much animation to cancel.

Cooldowns actually work as cooldowns now. Instants are actually instant.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

Jaerlach wrote: »

fwiw, a forum admin just marked my post as an answer to that thread, which I'd say is a good demonstration that it reflects their intent.

The one where they state it was unexpected but not cheating?

The one where you then offer your interpretation of what that means?

And the OP that made the thread marked your post as answered, not a forum admin.

Jaerlach · February 2015

I do pics

The debate is settled, really.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

Shows an answer to some question was accepted - doesn't really show the thread though, does it?

Nice though. Links are a bit less historical/ambiguous.

(If it's the link you posted above, it's the answer that clearly states it's not cheating.)

Jaerlach · February 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Shows an answer to some question was accepted - doesn't really show the thread though, does it?

Nice though though. Links are a bit less historical.

I have one accepted answer, as you can see from the Badge. you're being obstinate and ridiculous.

That post is the single solitary accepted answer I've ever made, the thread hasn't been edited, and it was accepted 20m after I linked the thread here.

I get it, you disagree and hate animation canceling, but it's time to face reality.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

@Jaerlach‌ , TBH I didn't look at the timestamp, nor peruse your history that deeply.

In fact I do not hate AC and find it's even less prevalent now than it is on live.

I think we might be fighting on the same side...if so, I misunderstoodread your post and I apologize.

My stance: It is cut and dry - it has been clarified as acceptable/not cheating.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2015

I suspect it went something like this:

Dev 1: "I don't know how to stop them from animation cancelling."
Dev 2: "Just tell them we meant it to be like this."
Dev 1: "Of course, brilliant!"

Anyone who believes that animation cancelling was originally intended is giving ZOS way too much credit. I firmly believe it's something they simply can't figure out how to fix and they are trying to come up with ways to mitigate it (hence the new animations and timing). To this day they still don't know what's causing lag in Cyrodiil. Repeatedly reducing the population cap and even removing deer hasn't worked. The only people who like it are people that have "mastered" it and are enjoying the advantage it gives.

Panda244 · February 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I suspect it went something like this:

Dev 1: "I don't know how to stop them from animation cancelling."
Dev 2: "Just tell them we meant it to be like this."
Dev 1: "Of course, brilliant!"

Anyone who believes that animation cancelling was originally intended is giving ZOS way too much credit. I firmly believe it's something they simply can't figure out how to fix and they are trying to come up with ways to mitigate it (hence the new animations and timing). To this day they still don't know what's causing lag in Cyrodiil. Repeatedly reducing the population cap and even removing deer hasn't worked. The only people who like it are people that have "mastered" it and are enjoying the advantage it gives.

And the only people who don't like it are those that can't do it, don't want to do it, are to lazy to do it, won't do it, or in the rare case the person/people that just complain about everything.

Changing something that everyone can do is simply stupid, you have access to it, you can do it. Don't complain about it, just do it, and if you don't want to then fine, it's your choice and you're entitled to that choice. But don't change something because you can't or won't do it, it's just... Simply. Stupid.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I suspect it went something like this:

Dev 1: "I don't know how to stop them from animation cancelling."
Dev 2: "Just tell them we meant it to be like this."
Dev 1: "Of course, brilliant!"

Anyone who believes that animation cancelling was originally intended is giving ZOS way too much credit. I firmly believe it's something they simply can't figure out how to fix and they are trying to come up with ways to mitigate it (hence the new animations and timing). To this day they still don't know what's causing lag in Cyrodiil. Repeatedly reducing the population cap and even removing deer hasn't worked. The only people who like it are people that have "mastered" it and are enjoying the advantage it gives.

And the only people who don't like it are those that can't do it, don't want to do it, are to lazy to do it, won't do it, or in the rare case the person/people that just complain about everything.

Changing something that everyone can do is simply stupid, you have access to it, you can do it. Don't complain about it, just do it, and if you don't want to then fine, it's your choice and you're entitled to that choice. But don't change something because you can't or won't do it, it's just... Simply. Stupid.

Tell us how you really feel. Honestly I don't care either way. It's not like anyone can prove that you are not doing it. But don't kid yourself that it somehow means you have skill. It's a mechanic that makes this game just like every other MMO. We did the same BS in EQ2 to maximize DPS and even had a little sound effect play in EQ2Interface to let you know when not to cast to make sure you were getting your auto attack in. It's not skill guys, it's an unintended mechanic that they have decided to own because they can't fix it.

Potenza · February 2015

I have no problem with it. I use it, others use it - IDK. What I would have a problem with is them changing it and we lose the fluid execution of spells and weapon strikes - that would *** me off - so leave it alone.

Panda244 · February 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I suspect it went something like this:

Dev 1: "I don't know how to stop them from animation cancelling."
Dev 2: "Just tell them we meant it to be like this."
Dev 1: "Of course, brilliant!"

Anyone who believes that animation cancelling was originally intended is giving ZOS way too much credit. I firmly believe it's something they simply can't figure out how to fix and they are trying to come up with ways to mitigate it (hence the new animations and timing). To this day they still don't know what's causing lag in Cyrodiil. Repeatedly reducing the population cap and even removing deer hasn't worked. The only people who like it are people that have "mastered" it and are enjoying the advantage it gives.

And the only people who don't like it are those that can't do it, don't want to do it, are to lazy to do it, won't do it, or in the rare case the person/people that just complain about everything.

Changing something that everyone can do is simply stupid, you have access to it, you can do it. Don't complain about it, just do it, and if you don't want to then fine, it's your choice and you're entitled to that choice. But don't change something because you can't or won't do it, it's just... Simply. Stupid.

Tell us how you really feel. Honestly I don't care either way. It's not like anyone can prove that you are not doing it. But don't kid yourself that it somehow means you have skill. It's a mechanic that makes this game just like every other MMO. We did the same BS in EQ2 to maximize DPS and even had a little sound effect play in EQ2Interface to let you know when not to cast to make sure you were getting your auto attack in. It's not skill guys, it's an unintended mechanic that they have decided to own because they can't fix it.

How I feel? I could care less, Animation Canceling has become so habitual it's ingrained into my brain. If they change it, they change it, I don't want them to for the facts I've stated above, but if they do, I can't stop them. I like it because in PvP it does increase your skill, if you can Cancel your opponent, he'll run out of stamina for blocking quicker, and the little extra damage counts. You wouldn't believe how many times I've gotten people down to 100-150 Health and then the last Shield Bash cancel kills them... It's hilarious.

As for it being an unintended mechanic, so what? Using Dragon Leap to jump across large gaps and onto/into keeps is an unintended mechanic, getting onto the outter walls is considered an exploit now, which I don't support, but getting into the inner walls isn't. It's fun.

When they launched the game how many things do you think players did that were unintended? That's what makes this game great above other MMOs, if they removed all the "unintended" features of ESO. It would suck immensely. That's just my two cents.

DarkAedin · February 2015

the addition of clipping introduced a skill factor that is gives the modern MMO'er something harder to do during combat to maintain a high dps.

in nearly every game that has this, macro'ing for animation canceling doesnt really work b/c of "lag", that being said, its become somewhat of a honed skill, to time out your button presses instead of just spamming sh*t.

in fact, if you google "animation cancelling" you will see a ton of games with active combat allowing you to clip.

this has been going on for years, get with the program and stop complaining about a mechanic thats been around since the dawn of video games

heres an extremely old game with animation cancelling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qdyhRmSFmc

Cody · February 2015

TerraHawk wrote: »

Simply answer these questions:

1) When the Devs scale hard dungeons, do you think they take into account animation cancelling? You bet! Otherwise, it would be too easy.

2) Both my wife and myself are approaching retirement and this is her first MMO. She is just physically unable to do AC. We can't do the top dungeons because we (and our older friends) don't AC. As a result, we lose 30% DPS. Why should an exploit be left in the game when it clearly discriminates against some players? Oh, I know. I should just tell my wife "N00b, l2p".

3) If you think it is not an exploit, how do you explain that there is no documentation of the effect anywhere in the official game? Shouldn't there be a tutorial on how to animation cancel or block cast? If somebody didn't know to research it, how would they know to do it? Is this just for insiders?

The reality is this: the people who go ape-s**t when the idea gets floated to remove these effects are only concerned with losing their advantage over people who don't use them. End. Of. Story

No.

I am going "apes***" because if AC were removed, it WOULD be impossible for ANYONE to do dungeons/trials. The game is designed around Animation canceling, and its removal would require the devs to re-design many core aspects of the game.

The devs cant even fix the 9 month old lag in PvP, they sure as heck don't need to be re-designing the entire game

wait..... something is not right about that last sentence....

hmmm.......