Sorcerer: what am I doing wrong?

ArcanusMagus · December 2014

I am a v14 sorc-since-beta. I had never used an addon before today and had completed AA Time Trial and can hold my own in Cyrodiil. I'm not the best, but I'm not new, either. I downloaded CombatAnalytics just to see what my dps actually is. It's abysmal. Not only that, but it was abysmal while running a pretty solid rotation for pve (crushing shock, endless fury, power surge, inner light, impulse). My magicka and spell damage both sat at the soft cap and my weapon damage would break 209 with power surge.

I crafted a new set, purple v14, that brings my stats much higher, but gives me no 5-set bonus. Here are some of my stats:<edit> these stats are with inner light and power surge active</edit>

2538 Max Magicka
2572 Max Health
137 Spell Damage
41 Spell Critical
Weapon Damage 209
Weapon Critical 11
Magicka Regen 150

I am in all light armor with the Thief stone and a 7% spell damage buff from my Dark Elf racial passive for fire damage (I use an inferno staff).

As for testing, I'm using v9 mammoths in Malabal Tor and a run through AA this evening. I know it's not a huge data set, but everything I've gleaned from the tests is internally consistent, so it can't be too far off. My rotation currently is crushing shock with light attacks, crystal fragments when it procs, and an endless fury execution. From everything I've read tonight and seen on youtube and whatnot, this is a competitive rotation for trials (remember, I've completed trials, I just want to improve).

Depending upon procs, my dps for the mammoths is around 600.
Depending on procs, my dps for AA bosses (all of them) was around 500.

This makes no sense to me. On paper, this should be working just fine.

I swapped around a few skills, curse, elemental drain, etc. but didn't see a significant change. I left ultimates out of the testing, though I usually run negate and barrier pve and pvp.

What am I doing wrong?

Sharee · December 2014

I have noticed that an addon starts the DPS counter when you enter combat, and ends it when you exit combat.

Problem is, the game sometimes keeps me in combat for several seconds after the mob died. And those several seconds count as you dealing zero DPS. Then the average DPS for that fight drops accordingly. Maybe that is your issue?

Derra · December 2014

For pure dps you should not aim for spelldmg AT ALL as a sorc. Just pure weapon dmg, spellcrit and max magica. The rotation consists of critsurge every 20s + force shock, light attack.
You should be able to range from 850 to 1000, 1200 dps (the last being with evil hunter) on singletarget bosses. Atleast that are the results i am getting.
Curse, Fragments (even procced) and everything else is a net dps loss.

Edit: I might add that this is for dungeons as i don´t run trials.

ArcanusMagus · December 2014

Derra wrote: »

For pure dps you should not aim for spelldmg AT ALL as a sorc. Just pure weapon dmg, spellcrit and max magica. The rotation consists of critsurge every 20s + force shock, light attack.
You should be able to range from 850 to 1000, 1200 dps (the last being with evil hunter) on singletarget bosses. Atleast that are the results i am getting.
Curse, Fragments (even procced) and everything else is a net dps loss.

Edit: I might add that this is for dungeons as i don´t run trials.

What would you recommend as good benchmarks for those?

Derra · December 2014

I think 800 substained dps should be sufficient for trials (AA and Hel Ra). But there are other experts somewhere around in these forums.

The Gargoyle in Spindleclutch for non daedric and the Maw of the Infernal in banished cells for daedric dps test. Both encounters require no movement from the dps at all.

ArcanusMagus · December 2014

Derra wrote: »

I think 800 substained dps should be sufficient for trials (AA and Hel Ra). But there are other experts somewhere around in these forums.

The Gargoyle in Spindleclutch for non daedric and the Maw of the Infernal in banished cells for daedric dps test. Both encounters require no movement from the dps at all.

I'm sorry, I mean what are good benchmarks for magicka, spell crit, and weapon damage?

Right now, with a reworked loadout, this is what I have (no potion):
Magicka: 2500+
Spell Crit: 41%
Weapon Damage: 238

I could get these numbers a bit higher, but I'm testing things with v14 purples with rekuta enchantments. I could certainly up my magicka a bit, but I'm sacrificing some magicka to cross the 2.5k health threshold.

Jahosefat · December 2014

ArcanusMagus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think 800 substained dps should be sufficient for trials (AA and Hel Ra). But there are other experts somewhere around in these forums.

The Gargoyle in Spindleclutch for non daedric and the Maw of the Infernal in banished cells for daedric dps test. Both encounters require no movement from the dps at all.

I'm sorry, I mean what are good benchmarks for magicka, spell crit, and weapon damage?

Right now, with a reworked loadout, this is what I have (no potion):
Magicka: 2500+
Spell Crit: 41%
Weapon Damage: 238

I could get these numbers a bit higher, but I'm testing things with v14 purples with rekuta enchantments. I could certainly up my magicka a bit, but I'm sacrificing some magicka to cross the 2.5k health threshold.

That is pretty close to as far as you can push those stats. If you are not seeing the DPS it is probably your DPS meter; and if not that it may your timing with the light attack weaving (you said you have played a while so it is probably just your meter giving you funky results).

Derra · December 2014

Spell crit seems a tad to low.
I´m running 58% spellcrit 230 weapon dmg 2.7k magica 2.45 k health without campaign buffs.

florian.billeb16_ESO · December 2014

First of all, but you do it certainly.

1) the DPS cycle:
Light attack / surge / block (animation cancelling), light attack / crushing shock / block (animation cancelling), light attack / crushing shock / block (animation cancelling.
the DPS of the light attack if you do it very good, is 25-35 % of your DPS

2) Secondly, you don't have enought % crit:
Set of the aetherian or craft set with + 4 % of crit are really usefull. Change your set to have more crit chance

ArcanusMagus · December 2014

Thanks, all, I appreciate the insights.

Pyatra · December 2014

If running Fire Destro staff the partial charged heavy weave is easier for me for 900-1k dps, but some people say it's a lot harder for them than the cancelling but the partial heavy weave can't be macro'ed up as effectively. Ice destro does ok but timing is different and I loose about 50 DPS on my timing, lightning staff you need to go with a light attack weave.

Grao · December 2014

OP, your rotation is not the problem. As a sorcerer you have to use the simple rotation of Light attack + crushing shock, maintaining Critical Surge and Inner Light Constantly up.

Your problem seems to be related to your gear and possibly with how efficient you are maintaining the light attack weaving. As mentioned before, the sorc's main stats are Spell Crit followed closely by Weapon Damage (since your main attack scales from those stats). To be an efficient sorc DPS you must have a minimum of 50% crit without the Thief. From that point on you are allowed to use the Shadow buff (which increases the damage caused by crit strikes). Your magicka must reach the soft cap with purple or blue food. There is no real limit to Weapon damage, even if you are above the soft cap.

I advise you to practice your rotation as much as possible, keep Panacea of Spell Power on cooldown in raids and use Spell Symetry to keep your Magicka (you will need since you will have no extra regen from jewelry).

In trials you are aiming for:

900 - 1000 DPS when using Negate instead of Atronach.

1000 - 1200 DPS when using Atronach as your Ult or when using Evil Hunter

700 - 900 DPS when using Elemental Drain (you should try avoiding being responsible for this as it lowers your DPS considerably. Healers can easily introduce this Debuff on their rotation asd are asked to do so many times. Anyway, you only need one Ele Drain caster per raid).

P.S. Your ult on your single target bar MUST ALWAYS be Flawless Dawnbreaker. There is no way around that. You will never use the active of this Ult (as it sucks). but the passive increase of damage from weapon abilities is huge for DPS.

Derra · December 2014

Damn how could i forget about flawless dawnbreaker. Thats a big one right there

ArcanusMagus · December 2014

Thanks, guys! My dps is now averaging around 825 so I have some breathing room. I'll work on tinkering with my gear to raise my crit chance. Animation cancelling mystifies me and I must not being doing it correctly if trying it costs me about 200 dps. However, being about to post decent, though not yet great, numbers has certainly put my mind at ease.

Grao · December 2014

ArcanusMagus wrote: »

Thanks, guys! My dps is now averaging around 825 so I have some breathing room. I'll work on tinkering with my gear to raise my crit chance. Animation cancelling mystifies me and I must not being doing it correctly if trying it costs me about 200 dps. However, being about to post decent, though not yet great, numbers has certainly put my mind at ease.

If you need anymore help you can contact me in game. My char is Graug Altbet. I can try helping you with the light attack weaving and offer a few more hints on how to increase your DPS with different skills and gear.

Cuyler · December 2014

Grao wrote: »

OP, your rotation is not the problem. As a sorcerer you have to use the simple rotation of Light attack + crushing shock, maintaining Critical Surge and Inner Light Constantly up.

Your problem seems to be related to your gear and possibly with how efficient you are maintaining the light attack weaving. As mentioned before, the sorc's main stats are Spell Crit followed closely by Weapon Damage (since your main attack scales from those stats). To be an efficient sorc DPS you must have a minimum of 50% crit without the Thief. From that point on you are allowed to use the Shadow buff (which increases the damage caused by crit strikes). Your magicka must reach the soft cap with purple or blue food. There is no real limit to Weapon damage, even if you are above the soft cap.

I advise you to practice your rotation as much as possible, keep Panacea of Spell Power on cooldown in raids and use Spell Symetry to keep your Magicka (you will need since you will have no extra regen from jewelry).

In trials you are aiming for:

900 - 1000 DPS when using Negate instead of Atronach.

1000 - 1200 DPS when using Atronach as your Ult or when using Evil Hunter

700 - 900 DPS when using Elemental Drain (you should try avoiding being responsible for this as it lowers your DPS considerably. Healers can easily introduce this Debuff on their rotation asd are asked to do so many times. Anyway, you only need one Ele Drain caster per raid).

P.S. Your ult on your single target bar MUST ALWAYS be Flawless Dawnbreaker. There is no way around that. You will never use the active of this Ult (as it sucks). but the passive increase of damage from weapon abilities is huge for DPS.

Just wondering what you slot when not using elemental drain that increases your dps when you not using it?

Grao · December 2014

Cuyler wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

OP, your rotation is not the problem. As a sorcerer you have to use the simple rotation of Light attack + crushing shock, maintaining Critical Surge and Inner Light Constantly up.

Your problem seems to be related to your gear and possibly with how efficient you are maintaining the light attack weaving. As mentioned before, the sorc's main stats are Spell Crit followed closely by Weapon Damage (since your main attack scales from those stats). To be an efficient sorc DPS you must have a minimum of 50% crit without the Thief. From that point on you are allowed to use the Shadow buff (which increases the damage caused by crit strikes). Your magicka must reach the soft cap with purple or blue food. There is no real limit to Weapon damage, even if you are above the soft cap.

I advise you to practice your rotation as much as possible, keep Panacea of Spell Power on cooldown in raids and use Spell Symetry to keep your Magicka (you will need since you will have no extra regen from jewelry).

In trials you are aiming for:

900 - 1000 DPS when using Negate instead of Atronach.

1000 - 1200 DPS when using Atronach as your Ult or when using Evil Hunter

700 - 900 DPS when using Elemental Drain (you should try avoiding being responsible for this as it lowers your DPS considerably. Healers can easily introduce this Debuff on their rotation asd are asked to do so many times. Anyway, you only need one Ele Drain caster per raid).

P.S. Your ult on your single target bar MUST ALWAYS be Flawless Dawnbreaker. There is no way around that. You will never use the active of this Ult (as it sucks). but the passive increase of damage from weapon abilities is huge for DPS.

Just wondering what you slot when not using elemental drain that increases your dps when you not using it?

The 3rd ability changes depending on the fight you are on. It is possible to slot Evil Hunter on it, Mage's Wrath or a DoT of some origin. The increase in DPS when not using Ele Drain comes from not needing to cast an ability that doesn't increase your DPS. Ele Drain's animation breaks your rotation of crushing shock weaved with light attacks and consumes quite a bit of Magicka, which also affects DPS.