Nightblade tanking in medium armor, possible?

Lynx7386 · December 2014

I've seen a few posts around here with people claiming that they tank endgame/v14 content just fine wearing all medium armor, or 5 medium + 2 heavy.

I attempted doing this on my nightblade at lower levels (in the 30's or so) and it didnt seem to work out all that well, so I'm wondering just what's changed to make it a viable endgame tanking option.

If anyone is running a 5 or 7 medium armor tanking setup (particularly nightblades), I'd appreciate information on the build, item sets, and abilities you're using for it. Currently my nightblade is 7 medium and using a 2hander, but I'd like to be able to set up a second set of gear with a 1h/shield for tanking when needed.

Kraven · December 2014

Many builds and options are available end game that just won't work any earlier. The difference is armor values, set bonuses, character stats, skill points and skills unlocked. My NB is V14 and the stat difference between it and my V2 or even my V10 is too large to allow for the exact same play style.

bosmern_ESO · December 2014

You could definitely do it in the ward of Cyrodiil medium set. It's 5 set gives additional 12% block mitigation, and you can use a 2 set from the undaunted.

On my DK I've tanked in light armor while having high dps. If you focus on mitigation and reduced block cost, Medium armor tank can do amazing work with the stamina regeneration for blocking, specially at times like the end of AA where you tank 2-3 axes and you pretty much will stay alive as long as you have stamina.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

What crafted sets are available for tanking? I have 6 traits on just about every item when crafting, but I don't have the patience or gold for looted sets

DeLindsay · December 2014

Also using Focused Attacks (+40% Stam regen) helps loads. As a VR14 NB Tank who has tanked in 7-Light, 5-L/2-H, 7-Heavy and 5-H/2-L I gotta say Stamina is always the least of my worries, it's always Magicka I have the most problems with. I can certainly see a 5+ Medium build working well, but I'm still unconvinced of those claiming that a high Dodge build (Hist Bark + Elude) is actually working for them, the way fight mechanics are in ESO.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

Suppose with the extra stamina I could use circle of protection, evasion, and the heavy armor active for extra defense

DeLindsay · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Suppose with the extra stamina I could use circle of protection, evasion, and the heavy armor active for extra defense

You're not going to be able to keep all active defensive abilities up 100%, the costs are just too high and most abilities are too short. And once again speaking from a VR14 in near full Legendary Tank gear, Ring of Preservation, for fights where you don't move all over the place, is superior to Immovable and it's morphs due to length of use. You top out at 10.5 seconds with Unstoppable, but RoP is 20 sec and allies can stand in it also. The difference in already overcharged Resistance/Armor is ~120 unless the boss is Undead/daedra then RoP is basically the same. What you REALLY want to work on getting is Bone Shield > Spiked Bone Shield. That gives you 6 seconds of bada$$ and 10 sec of a nice shield for your party members.

You will come to find out running out of resources is what kills tanks, or wipes the group when you don't even have the resources to re-taunt the boss. Also don't be like many tanks in ESO, Block-Botting is bad mmk. Your job as the tank in ESO is not to just stand there and play meat shield. Well it is, but you need to do damage too. Don't expect you will ever be #1 DPS in the group, but if you aren't beating the Healer in DPS then you might just be a BlockBot.

Also I would read this, it might help you with choices.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

Think it's worth using inner fire as my taunt to save on more stamina?

DeLindsay · December 2014

Both are used situationally. If you have the Stamina to burn use Ransack for an increase to your armor, which you will be a little low not using Heavy. There will be times you have to use Inner Fire when you don't get Taunt back on in between the 10.1-14.9 sec window and the Boss makes a B-line straight for your Healer or high DPS. I always have both on my bar, or 1 on each bar.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

Think 5 medium + 2 heavy is worth it or would it just be better going 7 medium?

Turelus · December 2014

Just be aware Lynx7386 that with 1.6 the gap in amour for the three types will be increased (if what ZOS has said already can be believed) as ZOS want to focus on Heavy Armour being the tank one.

DeLindsay · December 2014

The +2 depends entirely on how you do with resources. If you are running out of Magicka (most likely) then 2 Light might be to your benefit. Here's what you get that matters for your +2:

Light 2pc

6% cheaper Magicka costs
8% higher Magicka regen
16% higher Spell Resistance

Medium 2pc

8% higher Stamina regen + 4% cheaper Stamina costs
6% faster Sprint + 8% cheaper Roll Dodge

Heavy 2pc

6% higher Spell Resistance + Armor
8% higher Health regen + Mag/Stam regen on hit (small amount with only 2)
8% cost reduction to Break Free
2% higher Healing received (barely noticeable)

There is also added dmg in all 3 trees but with only +2pcs and being you are a Tank the difference is negligible. You can put a Glyph on 1 or 2 pcs of Jewelry that boosts your Armor (Glyph of Decreased Physical Harm) and/or Spell Resistance (Glyph of Decreased Spell Harm) if you feel you need it. The 3rd Jewelry Glyph can be anything useful like 5sec reduced CD of potions, cost reduction to Block/Bash, cost reduction or regen for Magicka/Stamina, etc.

DeLindsay · December 2014

Turelus wrote: »

Just be aware Lynx7386 that with 1.6 the gap in amour for the three types will be increased (if what ZOS has said already can be believed) as ZOS want to focus on Heavy Armour being the tank one.

True to a point. What Paul Sage has said is that the only way to CAP (50%) Armor and Resistance after the Champion System comes out is to be fully invested (24%) into Heavy Armor and it's celestial passives. That doesn't mean Light/Medium armor wearers will be incapable of tanking come 1.6, they just won't be "the best" as Paul puts it, or in other words the top 1%.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

For the meantime I'll probably stick with my 2hander, and I'll decide whether or not to change things up once the champion system hits. Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Stannum · December 2014

As for me I don't like tanking with stamina builds.
Stamina builds means that you mostly use stamina for your skills. So even with good stamina regen you should keep an eye for your stamina pool. And while tanking you need stamina for blocking. So when you are under massive attack you stamina will be burned quickly especially when you are in medium and have no heavy armor bonus for blocking (and if you use 2H instead 1h&b you have no blocking bonuses at all and your stamina will be burned in a moment). And without stamina you cannot nor attack nor tank. So the most viable build for tanks is magika build with 1h&b 5heavy and 2light. So you use magika and class skills for attack/buffs/heals and all your stamina is for blocking (with heavy armor and 1h&b passives it will be burned very slow).

DeLindsay · December 2014

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

As for me I don't like tanking with stamina builds.
Stamina builds means that you mostly use stamina for your skills. So even with good stamina regen you should keep an eye for your stamina pool. And while tanking you need stamina for blocking. So when you are under massive attack you stamina will be burned quickly especially when you are in medium and have no heavy armor bonus for blocking (and if you use 2H instead 1h&b you have no blocking bonuses at all and your stamina will be burned in a moment). And without stamina you cannot nor attack nor tank. So the most viable build for tanks is magika build with 1h&b 5heavy and 2light. So you use magika and class skills for attack/buffs/heals and all your stamina is for blocking (with heavy armor and 1h&b passives it will be burned very slow).

Your comments are somewhat incorrect and misleading. ALL Class abilities use Magicka as do many abilities used to tank with, neither are effected by wearing Heavy -VS- Medium armor. Even in 7pc Heavy the regen of resources via the Heavy armor passive Constitution is negligible. The Block reduction while wearing 5pc of Heavy armor is nice but being 5+pc Medium makes up for it, same with a single Shielding Glyph. I'm not sure who would tank using a 2H, nor did I read the OP saying he was going to.

"Tank" abilities that cost Magicka

Any Class skill
Inner Fire
Bone Shield
Volcanic Rune
Siege Shield
Purge

"Tank" abilities that cost Stamina

Blocking, Dodge Roll, Bashing
Immovable
Ring of Protection
Evasion
Annulment
Any ability in 1H/Shield
Rapid Maneuver

I can tell you from tanking as a NB I do NOT run out of Stamina often, almost never in fact. Magicka is always my biggest concern. I have zero additional Stamina Glyphed, nothing pointed into Stamina with Attributes and only (2) pcs with Stamina anything on them, my Footman rings. Once you have the Boss, you only need to use Ransack once every 10.1-11.9 seconds to keep the Armor buff up and Taunt on. I also try and keep Deep slash up, which is every 12 seconds, and Absorb Magic when it's needed. I use Ring of Protection every 20s for non-movement fights or Immovable every 10 seconds for highly mobile fights then Bone Shield as needed. The occasional Roll Dodge, Bash and basic blocking take up the rest of any Stamina I need to use. Nightblades have an ability that should ALWAYS be used while tanking called Siphoning Attacks. Pair that with Focused Attacks and you are a terrible tank if you run out of Stamina.

Stannum · December 2014

Heavy is needed not for constitution but for block cost and mitigation passives and soft cap armor (and with 2 light spell resist) without any other buffs.
And there are bad tanks that do nothing exept of taunting boss and good tanks who deals good dmg while tanking and can take first aggro from a full room of mobs and keep all their strikes without getting stamina burnt.
With stamina medium armor build you cannot effectively tank and do dmg. With 5hvy+2light and magika build you can.

Gyudan · December 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

You could definitely do it in the ward of Cyrodiil medium set. It's 5 set gives additional 12% block mitigation, and you can use a 2 set from the undaunted.

On my DK I've tanked in light armor while having high dps. If you focus on mitigation and reduced block cost, Medium armor tank can do amazing work with the stamina regeneration for blocking, specially at times like the end of AA where you tank 2-3 axes and you pretty much will stay alive as long as you have stamina.

The 15% increased movement speed when mounted is particularly interesting for high end VR14 content. Both Dragonstar Arena and Sanctum Ophidia involve a lot of horse-riding.

For a pure tank, heavy will always beat medium or light. I personally use 5*Footman, 5*Hist Bark and 5*Scourge Harvester, all heavy.

In some situations, when damage mitigation isn't that important but you still need to keep aggro, I like to use my sorcerer's DPS gear with the undaunted taunt and just regenerate health faster than I lose it with critical surge.

Stannum · December 2014

good NB tanking build should be smthing like this
5hvy+2light 1h&b

teleport srike morph
focused attacks
sap essence
leaching attacks
defensive posture morph

swallow soul
mirage
inner fire
leaching attacks
defensive posture morph

and veil of blades ulti

m/h/s ~3/2/0

DeLindsay · December 2014

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Heavy is needed not for constitution but for block cost and mitigation passives and soft cap armor (and with 2 light spell resist) without any other buffs.
And there are bad tanks that do nothing exept of taunting boss and good tanks who deals good dmg while tanking and can take first aggro from a full room of mobs and keep all their strikes without getting stamina burnt.
With stamina medium armor build you cannot effectively tank and do dmg. With 5hvy+2light and magika build you can.

Capping armor and/or Resistance can be EASILY done with a single Glyph of either on a Jewelry pc. Tanks do NOT do high DPS with Stamina based abilities, they use Magicka based abilities.

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

good NB tanking build should be smthing like this
5hvy+2light 1h&b

Nothing you have listed on that post has anything to do with this so called high DPS Heavy wearing Tank builds that Medium wearing tanks just simply cannot do.

Stannum · December 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Tanks do NOT do high DPS with Stamina based abilities, they use Magicka based abilities.

Tanks cannot do high DPS with magika based abilities with stamina based build.

DeLindsay · December 2014

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Tanks do NOT do high DPS with Stamina based abilities, they use Magicka based abilities.

Tanks cannot do high DPS with magika based abilities with stamina based build.

I'm not sure you understand how Tanking actually works in ESO, especially how the 3 Armor trees plus Attributes effect it. Wearing Medium Armor to tank in does not remotely mean you are a Stamina based build. As I previously said, in all incarnations of tank sets I've used, I have NEVER put any Attribute points into Stamina, nor have I glyphed any Stamina on my gear and I hardly ever run out of Stamina. If I were to wear 5pc Medium armor I would literally never run out of Stamina. The 20% reduction to ONLY Block cost while wearing 5+ pcs of Heavy isn't as awesome as you think it is, 1 Shielding glyph would basically cover that. The max of 14% reduction to the cost of Break Free (7pc Heavy) is nice but no where near required to keep from Stam burning.

For 5pc Medium you gain 20% Stamina regen and reduce the cost of Stamina abilities by 10% (this includes 1H/Shield abilities). That plus the added 20% reduction to Roll Dodge and 5pc Medium stacks up well against 5pc Heavy. The OP just asked if 5pc Medium would be viable to tank in and YES it is viable to tank in. It's not as good as 5-7pc Heavy for pure mitigation but it is 100% viable. The DPS output of either configuration 5pc Medium or 5pc Heavy would be almost identical as you would use the exact same abilities/attacks in either configuration.

Stannum · December 2014

Looks like you don't understand how resource managment works.
So you say, that you use medium armor for tanking with magika build? Only for stamina regen and reduced cost of stamina skills (which you don't use for DPS)? So you have lower armor and spell resist (as if you used heavy) and have no dmg mitigation and lower block cost only for hight stamina regen rate. And if you don't use light you also have no bonuses for magika cost and magica regen (which you use for DPS). You loose more then you get. I do not say that you cannot tank in medium, I say that more effective to tank in 5hvy+2light. I tried both variants on DK and can tell that medium tanking is not as good as light and heavy.

DeLindsay · December 2014

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

You loose more then you get. I do not say that you cannot tank in medium, I say that more effective to tank in 5hvy+2light. I tried both variants on DK and can tell that medium tanking is not as good as light and heavy.

I agree 100% but that's not at issue here. The OP only wanted to know if tanking in 5-7 pc Medium armor was viable, and it is. Also if I were to use Medium for tanking it'd be 5-M/2-L then I'd make up the Resist/Armor diff via Jewelry Glyphs. Nightblade tanks do NOT have an issue with Stamina due to Sihponing Attacks (the superior morph) and the use of Focused Attacks, so having 2pc Light helps with Magicka mgt, which we certainly have an issue with.

EDIT: I should state that as a NB tank at VR14 (5-H/2-L) I have over 3200 Health, nearly 2200 Magicka and ~1700 Stamina with Triad food and I have constant problems with Magicka during AOE and almost never an issue with Stamina even in AOE where I have the highest threat (blocking a lot), which isn't often as a NB during AOE.

IxSTALKERxI · December 2014

I only like med armor for dps.

For tanking as a Nightblade there are 2 things you need to consider.

1. Block cost reduction
2. Magicka cost reduction

You need to find a happy balance between the two.

Option 1: 7 light armor & 2 block cost reduction rings
Option 2: 5 Heavy armor + 2 light armor & spell cost reduction rings

I've had alot of success in PvP and PvE making builds that follow this makeup. Hope this helps.