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NightBlade PvE DW/DW non-vampire build + NB basic tactics
GwaynLoki
✭✭✭
Disclaimer:
I created this build on my search for a viable way to play NB in melee-only style. I am not claiming this is the most effective way to play a NB in PvE, nor do I claim it's the build with the highest dps for the intended purpose. I am posting this build to give people an example on how you can do decently as a melee-NB. I have been actively reading these forums since launch and read lots of complaints about the performance of NB in PvE. I myself have struggled quite a bit with the class, especially between level 30 and 40, as well as on VR 1 and 3 and suppose people may have run into equal problems as I did. In short: NB has usually no problem with one enemy, whether it's a boss or just trash, but 3-4 or more enemies can indeed sometimes be trouble. The following build is able to take on 3-4 enemies, with no guarantee of success when used against more than 4.
If you do not struggle with such situations, feel free to ignore this post. Otherwise I encourage people to use this build as a point to start out with creating their own melee build that is more tailored to their needs. Or to educate themself about basic combat tactics, see VI. for that.
I. Build:
II. Stats:
III. Armor:
IV. Weapons:
V. Why?
VI. Tactics
VII. Comments and commenting on this thread
I. Build:
http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mcMXtt9k8GFtc8IrgV8IryJ8IPU48w2l48Ir3D8IPbk8w2CO8GHRl8IPU48GHsW8GHRk8L7JcdoQr6MdoQF6MdoQC6MdoQK6MdoQJ8p7JcdBET6MdBvj6MdBEI6MdBvT6MdBEp8t7HLsg16rsgY6LsgX6MwS3c6MwYlv6MwYle6MwUlN6MwYl28C7Jrzqu6rzqa6rzqI6mzqG6MGFWc6MGFWi6MGFWA6MGFWn8D7DLzdR6rzdm6rzdM6MIrEf6MIsaM6MIrv36MIrEh8F7DMIPNU6MIPAT6MIPAv6MIPAh6LzrJ6Lbut8zV7pzeCp46ceCGC6ceCAq6ceCxV8zf7MzNbo6MDVRH8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX
II. Stats:
Mag/Health/Stam: 13/23/13
III. Armor:
Medium/Light: 5/2
IV. Weapons:
Sword/Sword + Sword/Sword
V. Why? Reasons for selected skills, stat distribution, etc.
Why a melee-only non-vampire build?
Because I have been playing melee thieves for eternities now and I love it. I played a sniper in Panetside 2 and just hate the auto-aim of the bow and the general feeling of the weapon. If I want to go ranged, I play a caster. I also hate vampires, specifically the way they are portrayed in the pop-culture. I don’t want to sparkle in the sun, I want to be invisible.
Why Killer's Blade?
Because it deals nice dmg when you use it when your enemy has low health and returns 15% health on kill with it.
Why Shadowy Disguise? Why Surprise Attack?
When you cast SD, enemies stop attacking and you are sure to crit with the next attack which is Surprise Attack. Which reduces armor by 40% for 10 secs. Which stuns an enemy and allows you to knock him down with a heavy/medium attack while the enemy is stunned. Always attack enemies from the back! You can sneak close to enemies facing you, use SD to get behind their backs and stab them with Surprise Attack. Furthermore, the passives for the Shadow Skill line give you 30% increased Stamina regeneration for 6 seconds when a Shadow Skill is activated (Refreshing Shadows) and Increased Armor and Spell Resistance when coming out of stealth (aka crouched) or invisibility - Shadowy Disguise - for 4 seconds (Shadow Barrier).
Why Siphoning Attacks?
Because it it gives you a 10% chance to recover Magicka and Stamina with every attack in addition to restoring 4% of your Magicka when attacking with a basic attack. And more Magicka means you can use SD+VS: You get less dmg because enemies wont attack you for the duration of SD and ~1-2 secs after.
Why Heated Blades?
Because in combination with SD and Surprise Attack it allows you to lock down any melee enemy: First you stun him, then you knock him down and if you feel like it, you use Heated Blades and he can't attack you with melee attacks for 4 more seconds. Regain Magick over that time, rinse and repeat.
Swallow Soul:
Nice heal, useful when doing bosses or bigger fights like dolmens and low on health. Get some distance and leech health in dolmen fights.
Whirlwind:
Simple. To tag as many enemies as you can in bigger events. Also, it's a nice aoe finisher with decent dmg.
Haste? Unmorphed?
In combination with Siphoning Attacks, you will get back astonishing amounts of Magicka and Stamina. More Magicka means you can spam my favorite combo SD+Surprise Attack more often. Unmorphed because I have heard conflicting reports on the morphs not working. Since I got not much money left atm to respecc, I won't take the chance.
Piercing Mark? Why not follow the reaper and use Reaper's Mark?
Mainly used this because I wanted to level it for PvP and the reduced cost seemed nice as well. Reaper's Mark is supposed to be bugged - another thing I can't verify atm due to money shortage. I have tested Mark Target and Piercing Mark and you can indeed see a dmg increase. I am not claiming it is the correct amount that should be the result of the -75% armor debuff on the enemy but both definitely do increase dmg dealt. ConterK tested this as well and his results are the same as mine(or the other way around? ;-) ) http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72460/nightblade-pressure-points-mark-target-thief-stone-not-working-nb-bugs#latest
If you are low on health in group events and are a quick guy/girl, put it on an enemy that's about to die and watch your health bar soar up, if you manage to execute the enemy yourself by using Killer's Blade that's another 15% health back.
Veil of Blades:
Enemies snared, DoTed and dmg reduction for yourself? What else do you want?
Helps a lot when dealing with multiple enemies. I considered making a build centered around this ability and fast generation of ultimate points via Soul Harvest to solo public dungeons, but again: No money :-( . Be careful, the DoT from this ability seems to cancel invisibility. If your experiences differ, pls correct me.
Incapacitating Strike:
Not using that one very often, it's mainly a damage increase against bosses and a nice stun for emergencies. For alternatives, see Veil of Blades comment.
Stat distribution and armor choice:
Now, this is where you can get creative.
Health is obivous, you need a decent amount in VR areas. Running with 0 health usually meant quick death for me, especially in dungeons. To quote a very good friend of mine: You can’t deal damage when you are dead (sorry, Pete, I just had to bring that one).Taking points away from health seems not clever, since I am having a hard time finding medium/light equipment with health on it (no luck with glyph drops). A change from light to heavy armor might be an option. More armor and health.
I am no longer sure about the points into stamina. From what I get, putting points into it increases weapon dmg. Since I am currently soft capped on Mag with the food I am using, the question is what is more useful: getting some more Magicka, even at the cost of DR (diminishing returns) or retaining the weapon dmg? Need to see the relation between Magicka+Magicka dmg increase/point for that. Feel free to post your own experiences. And to correct me on my lack of theoretical knowledge about skill mechanics.
Weapons: Why only swords?
The DW passive trait Twin Blade and Blunt gives you a permanent 2.5% damage increase against enemies. Seems nice and sweet and imo outclasses the very situational bonus of maces. Axes do apply bleeds, but currently I am under the impression that DoTs break our cloak or at least the visual cloaking. So far I can verify that using Veil of Blades and Cripple make your character appear visually from stealth although to your enemies you still seem to be stealthed. (For a discussion about this see http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/24nq3m/nightblades_invis_fix/ and here: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dots-on-enemys-breaking-cloak-bug-or-wai/). So it seems using them would mean gimping yourself. Dagger trait passive is supposed to be bugged, although I have read a post claiming otherwise (post #104 over here http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/maximzing-single-target-dps-nightblade-vr10-vet-dungeon-topic/page/6/). Guy who posted this claims bonus dmg/crit is applied per weapon slotted. Might be an option if that’s true.
Now, let's talk about
VI. Tactics.
When to kill whom and how.
Simple formula: caster>archer/ranged>melee. Always kill casters first, debuff melee by using Heated Blades. I can't understand why in every dolmen or dungeon I do, people just head into a bunch of mobs and start hitting the melee guys while allowing the ranged mobs to nuke away at them. Melee needs to follow you to do dmg, ranged doesn't. Never leave one of these cloth-softies alone or they are going to send your backside to where your soul is/was (Hint:Oblivion). With the rest of your body attached to it. Maybe.
My usual approach of a 3-mob group is the following: Mark on the mob I am going to kill second, pop Haste, sneak up to the first victim, use Shadowy Disguise and then Surprise Attack. Debuff second victim with Heated Blades if it is melee otherwise debuff third. Heavy/medium Attack for knockdown on first one. Depending on your amount of Magicka, another SD+Surprise Attack/a sole Surprise Attack attack/some heavy attacks. Kill the first guy fast. You can handle two melee easily with Heated Blades debuff kept up on the one and the combo with knockdown and stun on the other. Mark means that after the second guy dies you should be in a perfect spot healthwise. Kill third guy and cheer.
What to do if there are more than 3?
Cry. Give up and sneak through them by using Shadowy Disguise. - Or you could just remember your ultimate Veil of Blades and use this in the middle of these guys after you did the normal approach. Dodge, but stay inside the area of VoB. If you are fighting a melee boss, make sure you keep Heated Blades on him while you hammer away at the adds. Check whether Shadowy Disguise works or bugs out/gets cancelled because of DoTs. Always finish off adds with Killer's Blade. If you are quick, you can put Mark on one of them to get another heal. Remember to refresh Haste so you regain Magicka for the combo. Don't be afraid to sip a potion if you are close to death. If all that is left is only the boss, use Soul Swallow on him to regain your health. Don't try to do this while fighting multiple mobs, the time you are not invisible is not worth it, you can't outheal 3 mobs damaging you from my experience.
VII. Comments and commenting on this thread
Woah, hang on, this sounds so complicated, so much thinking and planning involved, is there no way to instagib my enemies and just be done with them?
None that I know of. But if you are really looking for an easy time, you should just give up some of the restrictions you are putting on yourself. Become vampire, use a ranged weapon, or - what a “solution” - roll another class.
NB sucks, other classes are way better for meleeing, I am going to reroll aother class.
Only dead fish swim with the stream. Have a nice trip.
You are so wrong, I completely disagree with you and your build is just stupid –as are you - and you need to l2p if you can’t take on a double digit number of enemies easily.
I am heartbroken. Now I need a cookie and a tissue. Thanks for the constructive criticism.
I found some grammar or spelling mistake
Grats, I found several. Feel free to keep and reuse them.
I have some constructive comment.
Now we are talking. Feel free to post it.
TL;DR If you are too lazy to read this stuff, you are not desperate enough for a viable build that meets the requirements I specified in the headline. So just ignore the thread since it isn’t aimed at you.
Edited by GwaynLoki on 8 May 2014 11:03 I created this build on my search for a viable way to play NB in melee-only style. I am not claiming this is the most effective way to play a NB in PvE, nor do I claim it's the build with the highest dps for the intended purpose. I am posting this build to give people an example on how you can do decently as a melee-NB. I have been actively reading these forums since launch and read lots of complaints about the performance of NB in PvE. I myself have struggled quite a bit with the class, especially between level 30 and 40, as well as on VR 1 and 3 and suppose people may have run into equal problems as I did. In short: NB has usually no problem with one enemy, whether it's a boss or just trash, but 3-4 or more enemies can indeed sometimes be trouble. The following build is able to take on 3-4 enemies, with no guarantee of success when used against more than 4.
If you do not struggle with such situations, feel free to ignore this post. Otherwise I encourage people to use this build as a point to start out with creating their own melee build that is more tailored to their needs. Or to educate themself about basic combat tactics, see VI. for that.
I. Build:
II. Stats:
III. Armor:
IV. Weapons:
V. Why?
VI. Tactics
VII. Comments and commenting on this thread
I. Build:
http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mcMXtt9k8GFtc8IrgV8IryJ8IPU48w2l48Ir3D8IPbk8w2CO8GHRl8IPU48GHsW8GHRk8L7JcdoQr6MdoQF6MdoQC6MdoQK6MdoQJ8p7JcdBET6MdBvj6MdBEI6MdBvT6MdBEp8t7HLsg16rsgY6LsgX6MwS3c6MwYlv6MwYle6MwUlN6MwYl28C7Jrzqu6rzqa6rzqI6mzqG6MGFWc6MGFWi6MGFWA6MGFWn8D7DLzdR6rzdm6rzdM6MIrEf6MIsaM6MIrv36MIrEh8F7DMIPNU6MIPAT6MIPAv6MIPAh6LzrJ6Lbut8zV7pzeCp46ceCGC6ceCAq6ceCxV8zf7MzNbo6MDVRH8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX
II. Stats:
Mag/Health/Stam: 13/23/13
III. Armor:
Medium/Light: 5/2
IV. Weapons:
Sword/Sword + Sword/Sword
V. Why? Reasons for selected skills, stat distribution, etc.
Why a melee-only non-vampire build?
Because I have been playing melee thieves for eternities now and I love it. I played a sniper in Panetside 2 and just hate the auto-aim of the bow and the general feeling of the weapon. If I want to go ranged, I play a caster. I also hate vampires, specifically the way they are portrayed in the pop-culture. I don’t want to sparkle in the sun, I want to be invisible.
Why Killer's Blade?
Because it deals nice dmg when you use it when your enemy has low health and returns 15% health on kill with it.
Why Shadowy Disguise? Why Surprise Attack?
When you cast SD, enemies stop attacking and you are sure to crit with the next attack which is Surprise Attack. Which reduces armor by 40% for 10 secs. Which stuns an enemy and allows you to knock him down with a heavy/medium attack while the enemy is stunned. Always attack enemies from the back! You can sneak close to enemies facing you, use SD to get behind their backs and stab them with Surprise Attack. Furthermore, the passives for the Shadow Skill line give you 30% increased Stamina regeneration for 6 seconds when a Shadow Skill is activated (Refreshing Shadows) and Increased Armor and Spell Resistance when coming out of stealth (aka crouched) or invisibility - Shadowy Disguise - for 4 seconds (Shadow Barrier).
Why Siphoning Attacks?
Because it it gives you a 10% chance to recover Magicka and Stamina with every attack in addition to restoring 4% of your Magicka when attacking with a basic attack. And more Magicka means you can use SD+VS: You get less dmg because enemies wont attack you for the duration of SD and ~1-2 secs after.
Why Heated Blades?
Because in combination with SD and Surprise Attack it allows you to lock down any melee enemy: First you stun him, then you knock him down and if you feel like it, you use Heated Blades and he can't attack you with melee attacks for 4 more seconds. Regain Magick over that time, rinse and repeat.
Swallow Soul:
Nice heal, useful when doing bosses or bigger fights like dolmens and low on health. Get some distance and leech health in dolmen fights.
Whirlwind:
Simple. To tag as many enemies as you can in bigger events. Also, it's a nice aoe finisher with decent dmg.
Haste? Unmorphed?
In combination with Siphoning Attacks, you will get back astonishing amounts of Magicka and Stamina. More Magicka means you can spam my favorite combo SD+Surprise Attack more often. Unmorphed because I have heard conflicting reports on the morphs not working. Since I got not much money left atm to respecc, I won't take the chance.
Piercing Mark? Why not follow the reaper and use Reaper's Mark?
Mainly used this because I wanted to level it for PvP and the reduced cost seemed nice as well. Reaper's Mark is supposed to be bugged - another thing I can't verify atm due to money shortage. I have tested Mark Target and Piercing Mark and you can indeed see a dmg increase. I am not claiming it is the correct amount that should be the result of the -75% armor debuff on the enemy but both definitely do increase dmg dealt. ConterK tested this as well and his results are the same as mine(or the other way around? ;-) ) http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72460/nightblade-pressure-points-mark-target-thief-stone-not-working-nb-bugs#latest
If you are low on health in group events and are a quick guy/girl, put it on an enemy that's about to die and watch your health bar soar up, if you manage to execute the enemy yourself by using Killer's Blade that's another 15% health back.
Veil of Blades:
Enemies snared, DoTed and dmg reduction for yourself? What else do you want?
Helps a lot when dealing with multiple enemies. I considered making a build centered around this ability and fast generation of ultimate points via Soul Harvest to solo public dungeons, but again: No money :-( . Be careful, the DoT from this ability seems to cancel invisibility. If your experiences differ, pls correct me.
Incapacitating Strike:
Not using that one very often, it's mainly a damage increase against bosses and a nice stun for emergencies. For alternatives, see Veil of Blades comment.
Stat distribution and armor choice:
Now, this is where you can get creative.
Health is obivous, you need a decent amount in VR areas. Running with 0 health usually meant quick death for me, especially in dungeons. To quote a very good friend of mine: You can’t deal damage when you are dead (sorry, Pete, I just had to bring that one).Taking points away from health seems not clever, since I am having a hard time finding medium/light equipment with health on it (no luck with glyph drops). A change from light to heavy armor might be an option. More armor and health.
I am no longer sure about the points into stamina. From what I get, putting points into it increases weapon dmg. Since I am currently soft capped on Mag with the food I am using, the question is what is more useful: getting some more Magicka, even at the cost of DR (diminishing returns) or retaining the weapon dmg? Need to see the relation between Magicka+Magicka dmg increase/point for that. Feel free to post your own experiences. And to correct me on my lack of theoretical knowledge about skill mechanics.
Weapons: Why only swords?
The DW passive trait Twin Blade and Blunt gives you a permanent 2.5% damage increase against enemies. Seems nice and sweet and imo outclasses the very situational bonus of maces. Axes do apply bleeds, but currently I am under the impression that DoTs break our cloak or at least the visual cloaking. So far I can verify that using Veil of Blades and Cripple make your character appear visually from stealth although to your enemies you still seem to be stealthed. (For a discussion about this see http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/24nq3m/nightblades_invis_fix/ and here: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dots-on-enemys-breaking-cloak-bug-or-wai/). So it seems using them would mean gimping yourself. Dagger trait passive is supposed to be bugged, although I have read a post claiming otherwise (post #104 over here http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/maximzing-single-target-dps-nightblade-vr10-vet-dungeon-topic/page/6/). Guy who posted this claims bonus dmg/crit is applied per weapon slotted. Might be an option if that’s true.
Now, let's talk about
VI. Tactics.
When to kill whom and how.
Simple formula: caster>archer/ranged>melee. Always kill casters first, debuff melee by using Heated Blades. I can't understand why in every dolmen or dungeon I do, people just head into a bunch of mobs and start hitting the melee guys while allowing the ranged mobs to nuke away at them. Melee needs to follow you to do dmg, ranged doesn't. Never leave one of these cloth-softies alone or they are going to send your backside to where your soul is/was (Hint:Oblivion). With the rest of your body attached to it. Maybe.
My usual approach of a 3-mob group is the following: Mark on the mob I am going to kill second, pop Haste, sneak up to the first victim, use Shadowy Disguise and then Surprise Attack. Debuff second victim with Heated Blades if it is melee otherwise debuff third. Heavy/medium Attack for knockdown on first one. Depending on your amount of Magicka, another SD+Surprise Attack/a sole Surprise Attack attack/some heavy attacks. Kill the first guy fast. You can handle two melee easily with Heated Blades debuff kept up on the one and the combo with knockdown and stun on the other. Mark means that after the second guy dies you should be in a perfect spot healthwise. Kill third guy and cheer.
What to do if there are more than 3?
Cry. Give up and sneak through them by using Shadowy Disguise. - Or you could just remember your ultimate Veil of Blades and use this in the middle of these guys after you did the normal approach. Dodge, but stay inside the area of VoB. If you are fighting a melee boss, make sure you keep Heated Blades on him while you hammer away at the adds. Check whether Shadowy Disguise works or bugs out/gets cancelled because of DoTs. Always finish off adds with Killer's Blade. If you are quick, you can put Mark on one of them to get another heal. Remember to refresh Haste so you regain Magicka for the combo. Don't be afraid to sip a potion if you are close to death. If all that is left is only the boss, use Soul Swallow on him to regain your health. Don't try to do this while fighting multiple mobs, the time you are not invisible is not worth it, you can't outheal 3 mobs damaging you from my experience.
VII. Comments and commenting on this thread
Woah, hang on, this sounds so complicated, so much thinking and planning involved, is there no way to instagib my enemies and just be done with them?
None that I know of. But if you are really looking for an easy time, you should just give up some of the restrictions you are putting on yourself. Become vampire, use a ranged weapon, or - what a “solution” - roll another class.
NB sucks, other classes are way better for meleeing, I am going to reroll aother class.
Only dead fish swim with the stream. Have a nice trip.
You are so wrong, I completely disagree with you and your build is just stupid –as are you - and you need to l2p if you can’t take on a double digit number of enemies easily.
I am heartbroken. Now I need a cookie and a tissue. Thanks for the constructive criticism.
I found some grammar or spelling mistake
Grats, I found several. Feel free to keep and reuse them.
I have some constructive comment.
Now we are talking. Feel free to post it.
TL;DR If you are too lazy to read this stuff, you are not desperate enough for a viable build that meets the requirements I specified in the headline. So just ignore the thread since it isn’t aimed at you.
4
-
This is really great! Wish I noticed this before I did a respec yesterday. Been trying to get a handle on a good rotation that deals good dmg, but still keeps me alive. Got the armor right I think, but my fighting technique needs more of an actual technique like this.
I only have one question, and that's how are you able to handle the for ex. dungeon bosses that deals massive AoE spells and makes it really hard to stay close without dying? That's when I pull the bow up, though I really(!) prefer DW over bow.
Again, good job!0 -
GwaynLoki✭✭✭I only have one question, and that's how are you able to handle the for ex. dungeon bosses that deals massive AoE spells and makes it really hard to stay close without dying? That's when I pull the bow up, though I really(!) prefer DW over bow.
Again, good job!
Hm, do you have any specific ones in mind? I mainly intended this build for PvE outside of dungeons but found it to be working inside as well. So far I have run Banished Cells and Funghal Grotto with it. BC you need some decently competent healer and tank anyways to keep the Maw of the Inferno from filling the room with fire - then meleeing the boss is no problem, his hitbox is really big and you can hit him from quite some distance.
In general, for a boss that has a animation that allows you to tell he is going to use his AoE-abilities, pop Shadowy Disguise if you can't dodge - armor buff should help. Admittedly, ranged is always easier to play. That's just the nature of it.
I tried using Sap Essence and Whirlwind for some nice AoE, but found I was drawing so much attention I couldn't survive for long. A more wise and conservative use of AoE-skills might help there.
Happy to hear the build works for you, don't be afraid to swap out any skill you don't like or that doesn't seem to serve a purpose in your opinion.
0