If you don't like Auction House

methjester

Malediktus wrote: »

Dont like it dont use it wont work in the case of an auction house. It will affect everything even if you dont use the auction house.
I pray to the gods that Zenimax wont give in.

Currently TESO is a sellers market and you can actually get decent prices for your items if you bother to use the chat. Global auctionhouse/tradingpost/whatever would turn it into a buyers market where you get crap fro your items because everyone undercuts each other.

Good!!! I'd rather sell 10 of something at 50, than 2 of something at 100. Also, that 10 sale took me a few seconds to post rather than an hour or two of stumping. I like my time.

You proved my point.

Malediktus

Lol I have no problem selling stuff for good prices. Its your own fault if you are terrible at selling. I rather make 10k gold than maybe 500-1000 if there would be an auctionhouse
Selling items is a nice change of pace from doing quests and killing stuff
If you are so in a hurry to sell something you can sell it to a merchant NPC or offer it vastly underpriced in the chat. I am sure someone with more patience will buy it to sell for a nice profit

Kililin

If an AH exists it influences the economy as a whole, if you participate or not.
It is like real life, you can ignore politics, stock markets, banks and rating agencies all you want but the financial crisis will still influence you.

Also AH is a playground for bot companies & goldsellers.

methjester

OH my dear friends, I have no trouble selling things for high prices when I want to. I just don't enjoy doing it. I'm glad you enjoy shouting that you have animal pelts, and getting tells asking how much, and haggling a mid point, and then agreeing on a COD Fee, and all this and that. I don't. That's boring, maybe play an accounting day trader simulator. And to suggest I sell to a merchant, please, don't insult me.

Don't bring up the spectre of bots and gold companies. They will be here no matter what.

Malediktus

Its simple tell them you will only sell per pick up and your prices arent negotiable. Most people will cave in, because thats still better than spending time finding another seller. I can pretty much buy up a lot of stuff from the 5 guild stores have access to and sell it for at least 50-100% more without having to pay any taxes.

methjester

Malediktus wrote: »

Its simple tell them you will only sell per pick up and your prices arent negotiable. Most people will cave in, because thats still better than spending time finding another seller. I can pretty much buy up a lot of stuff from the 5 guild stores have access to and sell it for at least 50-100% more without having to pay any taxes.

So, not only do you like bartering, you like underbuying from the guild store and selling it for profit out in the world? Man, you really sound like you would benefit from an auction house... you guild store ghoul you.

Malediktus

No auction house removes any chance for good deals or player interaction if it would be anything like the one I know from other games (eg. the one from GW2)

Vandril

People are right that it should be available. Especially when people are desperate for certain items that no one seems to be selling. But the only way I'd agree to an auction house is if there was a 100% price tax to BUY FROM IT. In addition, sales should be taxed by 25%. So, it should be useable but VERY, VERY inefficient. After all, each of the factions has a war to win. They need this tax money.

In this example, let's say you go buy a stack of potions originally listed for 200 gold by the seller. You, the buyer, will actually be buying them for 400 gold. 175 of the gold goes to the seller while 225 is lost to the taxes.

Now, I'm not trolling with this post. I'm completely serious. Don't freak out, think about it. What this would do is...

1: Allow people to post all the more common items that most people currently just junk for inventory space, at least making some profit out of them.

2: Introduce a set-and-forget central marketplace for each faction for those who do not want to sell manually, in exchange for some extremely lessened chances of sale and a profit cut.

3: Introduce an emergency-supply market for people who are absolutely desperate for certain items that no one seems to be currently selling, at the cost of having to pay double the normal price for it.

4: Due to points 2 and 3, the system would function as a heavy gold sink that is completely and utterly optional. This would help maintain the value of gold, fighting against inflation.

5: Due to points 2 and 3, the system will have minimal overall effect on manual trading and guild store prices, allowing for manual-trade and guild stores to continue to be just as viable a trading method as they are now while STILL offering an alternative.

A system like this is a system I could get behind.

If all this restriction by tax seems too much for you, you could also take a look at Nazon_Katts Consignment Vendor suggestion over at this thread.

Dyvim

sociald100ub17_ESO wrote: »

socomhdsb16_ESO wrote: »

Then don't use it!

seriously all these people whining about no auction house, well if you don't like it then you don't have to use it.

not everyone have as much time to play as you do, and I would rather be adventuring rather then standing in a city shouting in trade chat for a single item.

I really don't want to hear all the whining if and when they do add one and someone like yourself goes looking to buy rare mat x only to find out joe rich bot just abought up all of them and is the only seller and is selling at a ridiculous price.

This is idiotic. First off, who cares who buys up what? They CANNOT control the means of production, in other words, more will drop. You can ALWAYS make arrangements in YOUR guild, your REAL guild, not some stupid market substitute, to go farm the rare mats and support the guilds REAL crafters. Second, this notion of hampering the economy or having half arsed tiny fractured guild markets as some kind of solution is just pure folly. You either won't be able to find the rare mat at all OR IT WILL TAKE YOU UP TO FIVE TIMES AS LONG SEARCHING FOR IT across 5 flippin guild stores, and THEN there is absolutely NO guarantee the price wont be even MORE outrageous, because SMALL MARKETS are INHERENTLY LESS EFFICIENT. Its so stupid, its like the notion of security through obscurity...the AH haters are so clueless they think that by disabling the economy and economic activity, somehow its going to save the economy, provide players more access to goods, and keep prices down. Yeah, that's brilliant, let's kill the economy to save it. Lets hamper economic activity, the blood of the economy, and make things more tedious for the players that want to participate in it by making buying and selling MORE difficult and less efficient. How many kinds of stupid does it take to make that sound like a good idea???

This is lunacy. Small, fractured markets bring the EXACT OPPOSITE of what any rational, informed player wants. They destroy any notion of a REAL economy. They INCREASE INFLATION. Why? Fewer people are participating in FEWER transactions...which means more gold is left in the game, which means MORE inflation. People just vendor stuff to avoid hassle, which means MORE gold injected directly into the game. MORE INFLATION.

Say I loot item x. I vendor it. 500g added to the game's gold pool. This is where inflation comes from...Now, say I can easily, and without hassle, put item x up for sale in an AH. First off, the AH can provide me with accurate market pricing information, including historical data, so I can see what it should sell for based on the MORE EFFICIENT supply/demand/price curves baked in to LARGER markets. Then I can put it up for sale, at a competitive price, where another player SPENDS gold to buy it. Oh and by the way, the transaction has a fee associated with it THAT REMOVES GOLD from the system. NO GOLD is added. It is ANTI-inflationary. Its is so obvious, so simple, and THAT IS WHY virtually every AAA MMO for the LAST 10+ YEARS has had ONE. It is so basic, its like why cars have wheels...

With the craptasm we have now, fewer transactions, means fewer transaction fees/gold sinks. Small markets interfere with economic activity, make it harder for crafters to sell their goods, make it harder for customers to find and buy what they want, and bake in inefficiency in pricing and consumer information that large markets easily AVOID. In other words, its like people whining about having the flu, and instead they want everyone to catch the plague as the alternative.

The sheer stupidity and economic ignorance exhibited in these threads is staggering.

EliteZ

An auction house does not work one a mega server, too many people.
If they was to have an auction house, they would have to start making almost every high lvl item bound on pick-up else like many other games (Neverwinter, GW2 for example) people would just be selling the highest lvl gear making any kind of reward from end game pointless because people are either too lazy or not good enough to actually do the content themselves.

Goes for the rest of the items though really, the only reason people want an action house is because they are too lazy to go and get the items themselves, want quick sales so they can sit in towns and get the best items possible without any effort put in.

Go and work for your items!

Dyvim

EliteZ wrote: »

An auction house does not work one a mega server, too many people.
If they was to have an auction house, they would have to start making almost every high lvl item bound on pick-up else like many other games (Neverwinter, GW2 for example) people would just be selling the highest lvl gear making any kind of reward from end game pointless because people are either too lazy or not good enough to actually do the content themselves.

Goes for the rest of the items though really, the only reason people want an action house is because they are too lazy to go and get the items themselves, want quick sales so they can sit in towns and get the best items possible without any effort put in.

Go and work for your items!

Uh, see, there are these things called crafters, their purpose is to MAKE ITEMS to sell to OTHER PLAYERS. So you are trying to say that anyone that buys a crafter's goods is just too lazy? This is beyond goofy. You say that too many people make AHs unworkable? That is completely wrong...More people mean more economic activity, more transactions, more gold removed from the game. This is EXACTLY what you want. The more activity in the market, the more efficient the market becomes...the more buyers and sellers, the more effective the pricing.

Catches_the_Sun

vandrillordepreub18_ESO wrote: »

People are right that it should be available. Especially when people are desperate for certain items that no one seems to be selling.

And this is the problem with today's spoonfed, spoiled MMO gamer. You are desperate for items but willing to put in zero effort to obtain them.

Dyvim

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

vandrillordepreub18_ESO wrote: »

People are right that it should be available. Especially when people are desperate for certain items that no one seems to be selling.

And this is the problem with today's spoonfed, spoiled MMO gamer. You are desperate for items but willing to put in zero effort to obtain them.

You have no concept of interdependence in an MMO. None. You are willing to label players spoiled, and yet you exhibit a level of ignorance while doing it that disqualifies you from any serious discussion. If I have worked for X amt of gold, by questing or crafting and selling, or whatever, then I have put in the effort to obtain something that costs X amt of gold. The VERY reason you want large, efficient markets, with MANY buyers and sellers, is so that price, X, is as efficient as possible based on supply and demand.

Now, if I am a crafter, and only a crafter, I AM DEPENDENT ON OTHER PLAYERS to provide certain materials. It has nothing to do with being spoonfed or spoiled, despite your clueless assertion, it has everything to do with the INTERDEPENCIES BUILT INTO THE GAME. In turn, the adventurer is dependent on the crafter to the make the high end items that require his high end loot. The crafter NEEDS the adventurer, who then in turn NEEDS the crafter. Got it? When you make it harder for the crafter to get the materials HE NEEDS, you make it harder for the Adventurer to get the GEAR he needs. NO ONE WINS.

This isn't some single player RPG...so many clueless people on these boards, as well as some systems in this game that are more ARPG than MMORPG centric, just cant seem to grasp the difference.

EliteZ

Dyvim wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

An auction house does not work one a mega server, too many people.
If they was to have an auction house, they would have to start making almost every high lvl item bound on pick-up else like many other games (Neverwinter, GW2 for example) people would just be selling the highest lvl gear making any kind of reward from end game pointless because people are either too lazy or not good enough to actually do the content themselves.

Goes for the rest of the items though really, the only reason people want an action house is because they are too lazy to go and get the items themselves, want quick sales so they can sit in towns and get the best items possible without any effort put in.

Go and work for your items!

Uh, see, there are these things called crafters, their purpose is to MAKE ITEMS to sell to OTHER PLAYERS. So you are trying to say that anyone that buys a crafter's goods is just too lazy? This is beyond goofy. You say that too many people make AHs unworkable? That is completely wrong...More people mean more economic activity, more transactions, more gold removed from the game. This is EXACTLY what you want. The more activity in the market, the more efficient the market becomes...the more buyers and sellers, the more effective the pricing.

Yep, and much like Neverwinter and GW2, when everybody has brought the max gear from the AH for stupidly cheap prices nobody will be interested in doing end game content any more because it'll provide no rewards and become dead with people moaning "no end game" or "end game isn't rewarding". Just like nobody gives a crap about dungeons in GW2 as you could purchase full exotic gear by the time you're lvl 10. Again with neverwinter how nobody did end game dungeons apart from farming to sell the gear on the AH for those too lazy to do it themselves.

Yes, crafter should be able to sell their items and yes they are currently able to do that. Is there anything stopping a crafter from selling their wares in this game? However, people looking to buy these rare items should have to put effort in to it, not go to an AH and buy it within seconds.

If I want to buy an item in real life, there is no shop that sells EVERY item, instead I have to shop around, go into SEVERAL stores to not only find the item I want, but to find it at the cheapest possible price. Much like you do with guild stores. However, if no local shops sell the item, I can turn to other solutions such as the internet, much like you can do in ESO if your guild doesn't provide the item, you can look for it in major cities by using the chat system to actually sociallise and communicate with other players, not staring at an AH window.

Oh and btw, the purpose of a crafter is not to make items just to sell to other players. I craft gear, do I sell it? No, I make gear to better progress myself.

Stop wanting everything NOW without any effort. What the hell happened to gamers, seriously?

EliteZ

Dyvim wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

vandrillordepreub18_ESO wrote: »

People are right that it should be available. Especially when people are desperate for certain items that no one seems to be selling.

And this is the problem with today's spoonfed, spoiled MMO gamer. You are desperate for items but willing to put in zero effort to obtain them.

If I have worked for X amt of gold, by questing or crafting and selling, or whatever, then I have put in the effort to obtain something that costs X amt of gold.

So what you basically mean is after you have sat at the AH for days on end "playing the AH" to make a profit from buying and selling items because that is all that happens from these large AH. Every MMO is the same, it's the main reason people like action houses, because they can sit there and make thousands of gold off it from simply buying and selling. How much effort goes in to that really?

Catches_the_Sun

Dyvim wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

vandrillordepreub18_ESO wrote: »

People are right that it should be available. Especially when people are desperate for certain items that no one seems to be selling.

And this is the problem with today's spoonfed, spoiled MMO gamer. You are desperate for items but willing to put in zero effort to obtain them.

You have no concept of interdependence in an MMO. None. You are willing to label players spoiled, and yet you exhibit a level of ignorance while doing it that disqualifies you from any serious discussion. If I have worked for X amt of gold, by questing or crafting and selling, or whatever, then I have put in the effort to obtain something that costs X amt of gold. The VERY reason you want large, efficient markets, with MANY buyers and sellers, is so that price, X, is as efficient as possible based on supply and demand.

Now, if I am a crafter, and only a crafter, I AM DEPENDENT ON OTHER PLAYERS to provide certain materials. It has nothing to do with being spoonfed or spoiled, despite your clueless assertion, it has everything to do with the INTERDEPENCIES BUILT INTO THE GAME. In turn, the adventurer is dependent on the crafter to the make the high end items that require his high end loot. The crafter NEEDS the adventurer, who then in turn NEEDS the crafter. Got it? When you make it harder for the crafter to get the materials HE NEEDS, you make it harder for the Adventurer to get the GEAR he needs. NO ONE WINS.

This isn't some single player RPG...so many clueless people on these boards, as well as some systems in this game that are more ARPG than MMORPG centric, just cant seem to grasp the difference.

Obviously, more work is required than simply stockpiling gold and standing at the Auction House to obtain certain items. That is their vision, not mine. I just happen to agree with it.

Winke

me (lil crafter guy) = small local business

Auction House = Walmart

at least thats how i feel about the AH question. It will destroy this economy that, while difficult, is something I have begun to really enjoy. However, when it comes to coexistence, I think of SWG and their auction house system that ran side by side with NPC vendors for crafters. I found that the early levels would use the AH but when it came to finding that rare and or higher level gear, one would definitely hunt down the correct NPC vendor. (sry for SWG reference...makes me feel old)

Dyvim

Winke wrote: »

me (lil crafter guy) = small local business

Auction House = Walmart

at least thats how i feel about the AH question. It will destroy this economy that, while difficult, is something I have begun to really enjoy. However, when it comes to coexistence, I think of SWG and their auction house system that ran side by side with NPC vendors for crafters. I found that the early levels would use the AH but when it came to finding that rare and or higher level gear, one would definitely hunt down the correct NPC vendor. (sry for SWG reference...makes me feel old)

Don't apologize, its a good one, but what they did do was make all vendors subject to UNIVERSAL SEARCH. So you might have to travel to get to the item after you bought it, but you could easily see ALL THE ITEMS for sale, everywhere, so you could get a feel for the prices and know you weren't getting ripped off. In other words, by providing buyers with pricing information, you improved the market with more elements of competition. This worked nicely.

Dyvim

EliteZ wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

An auction house does not work one a mega server, too many people.
If they was to have an auction house, they would have to start making almost every high lvl item bound on pick-up else like many other games (Neverwinter, GW2 for example) people would just be selling the highest lvl gear making any kind of reward from end game pointless because people are either too lazy or not good enough to actually do the content themselves.

Goes for the rest of the items though really, the only reason people want an action house is because they are too lazy to go and get the items themselves, want quick sales so they can sit in towns and get the best items possible without any effort put in.

Go and work for your items!

Uh, see, there are these things called crafters, their purpose is to MAKE ITEMS to sell to OTHER PLAYERS. So you are trying to say that anyone that buys a crafter's goods is just too lazy? This is beyond goofy. You say that too many people make AHs unworkable? That is completely wrong...More people mean more economic activity, more transactions, more gold removed from the game. This is EXACTLY what you want. The more activity in the market, the more efficient the market becomes...the more buyers and sellers, the more effective the pricing.

Yep, and much like Neverwinter and GW2, when everybody has brought the max gear from the AH for stupidly cheap prices nobody will be interested in doing end game content any more because it'll provide no rewards and become dead with people moaning "no end game" or "end game isn't rewarding". Just like nobody gives a crap about dungeons in GW2 as you could purchase full exotic gear by the time you're lvl 10. Again with neverwinter how nobody did end game dungeons apart from farming to sell the gear on the AH for those too lazy to do it themselves.

Yes, crafter should be able to sell their items and yes they are currently able to do that. Is there anything stopping a crafter from selling their wares in this game? However, people looking to buy these rare items should have to put effort in to it, not go to an AH and buy it within seconds.

If I want to buy an item in real life, there is no shop that sells EVERY item, instead I have to shop around, go into SEVERAL stores to not only find the item I want, but to find it at the cheapest possible price. Much like you do with guild stores. However, if no local shops sell the item, I can turn to other solutions such as the internet, much like you can do in ESO if your guild doesn't provide the item, you can look for it in major cities by using the chat system to actually sociallise and communicate with other players, not staring at an AH window.

Oh and btw, the purpose of a crafter is not to make items just to sell to other players. I craft gear, do I sell it? No, I make gear to better progress myself.

Stop wanting everything NOW without any effort. What the hell happened to gamers, seriously?

If you have a game where gold isn't equal to some measure of in game effort, then your game has vastly more problems than if it has an AH in it. Your comments in this regard are incomprehensible. If someone has the gold for something, you think they shouldn't be able to buy it? Seriously? That is an untenable position. In other words, its f'n stupid.

The problems with gear and end game you are describing are JUST that, problems with gear in those games and the gear faucets they have for introducing them. That is where those problems lie, NOT WITH THE AUCTION HOUSE.

There is nothing wrong with the basic concept of class interdependencies in MMOs. It is tried and true, and is the underpinnings of the social nature of these games. PLAYERS NEED EACH OTHER. Crafters need adventures who need crafters. AHs facilitate those relationships AND PROVIDE a GREAT GOLD SINK, that FIGHTS INFLATION, while doing it.

If your chair, seat belt and air bag are all broken, and you hit something while driving and texting and get hurt, its not the cars fault because it can travel at over 45 miles per hour. Other systems failed you, including yourself by texting. But some group of idiots could come out and say that the speed capability of the car is the problem, and ALL CARS need to be limited to 45 mphs, inconveniencing everyone and fundamentally degrading the capability of the automobiles. That is EXACTLY the same kind of logic the AH haters are using. Lets inconvenience everyone and have a game with lesser capability and efficiency, just so we can make up for the idiot that drove a crappy car and was texting when he hit something.

Letting players easily and efficiently transact, all the while removing gold from the game with each transaction IS NOT A PROBLEM. IT IS GOOD. All this other crap that people are spouting has nothing to do with the basic premise of why AHs are good, popular, and provide much needed functionality.

Dyvim

EliteZ wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

vandrillordepreub18_ESO wrote: »

People are right that it should be available. Especially when people are desperate for certain items that no one seems to be selling.

And this is the problem with today's spoonfed, spoiled MMO gamer. You are desperate for items but willing to put in zero effort to obtain them.

If I have worked for X amt of gold, by questing or crafting and selling, or whatever, then I have put in the effort to obtain something that costs X amt of gold.

So what you basically mean is after you have sat at the AH for days on end "playing the AH" to make a profit from buying and selling items because that is all that happens from these large AH. Every MMO is the same, it's the main reason people like action houses, because they can sit there and make thousands of gold off it from simply buying and selling. How much effort goes in to that really?

Personally gaming the auction house isn't my thing, I'd rather be out experiencing the games content. But when I do need to sell something I want to be able to do it easily and efficiently, with information facilities built into the market place so I know I'm not getting ripped off...same with buying something.

But if someone is sitting there FOR DAYS, as you say, instead of doing other things in the game, that is THEIR CHOICE and THEIR PLAYSTYLE. They might make money, or they might lose money while doing it. The devs can change the game overnight and make a whole class or set of items WORTHLESS. This happens all the time, as the game get new levels, new gear, new loot, etc.

Who are you to tell them what they can do in the game...personally I don't like it, but then I don't like fishing in game either. That is the whole idea of MMOs...they are LARGE, complex, and offer many types of play to appeal to many types of players.

Also, think about this...players who like to game these markets will have AN EASIER TIME OF IT with the craptasm we have now, because these small, fractured markets, with poor information for participants lend themselves to the kind of predatory crap YOU are complaining about. ONLY BY OPENING things up in LARGE markets, with built in information tools for buyers and sellers, can you hamstring the predators and level the playing field.

Let me end this discussion with a simple example. Say you have a guy who really wants to work the system and as such is in 5 very large trading guilds on one acct. Since these are 500 max'd guilds with emphasis on trading, he will have more goods to choose from, and will be able to get a better hand on market pricing, because he will be seeing more transactions in the larger markets the game has to offer. Now, our arbitrager also has a second acct. On this acct he has joined 5 smaller or medium sized guilds. Now these smaller markets are inherently less efficient with fewer buyer and sellers and fewer items. The players in these markets are at a COMPLETE DISADVANTAGE...and the guy with two accounts can more easily buy cheap in the larger markets, where there is MORE COMPETITION and then sell HIGH in the smaller markets, where there are fewer providers of goods and LESS COMPETITON.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS when you fracture markets and put up artificial barriers that segregate buyers and sellers into different groups. It is economic suicide if you want a functioning economy and an efficient, rational market.

That example should open peoples eyes and end this thread. Arguing for small, fractured markets, with poor information baked into them to bork prices, is like arguing that the sun is going to rise in the west tomorrow morning. It is just fundamentally wrong and stupid.

Drake81

Hey Dyvim, i dont want to offend you, but your posts remind me of those angry missionary mans you see in some movies.

The problem with an AH is realy that it is a price gouger. D3 was a good example of how the prices of items can go through the roof and the worth of the currency falls through the ground.

On the other hand, i like the idear of vandrillordepreup18_ESO.

In real life, an AH (i dont talk about ebay) is also realy expansive (in selling as in buying). So an AH would be used for extreamly rare items where people can bide on. It woudnt be used for the normal items.

For normal items, i think the planed selling vendors are a good idear (remainds me a little on eve online - but just not as good ^^).

I only played WoW till BC (after my raid group was gone, it feelt lonly so i stopped (now they call that time vanilla, dont know why...)) - but due the time i played it, i startet to hate the AH, because like D3, the prices startet to rise and rise.

Offcourse if you where a player like me who played since day 1, you had the money, but those who came new to the game had a problem. Someone knows if they have solved that problem over the years? Well whatever, but i just dont think i like an AH as the "perfect solution".

The base idear of traiding guilds isnt bad, im in 4 of them, 2 of them are day one traiding guilds and they have everything you whant/need to good prices and if you realy need something you just can ask, someone will answer you.

I played sometime Ryzom after i stoped with WoW and i kinda liked the idear of an economy who sole based on the crafters. I think a mix of Ryzom and Eve Online would be realy great + an realy expansive to use AH for super rare Items.


Hm, and here i write and write, maybe i just should go to bed. xD


Have fun folks and dont kill each other off because of your difference in opinion (or do it at least in Cyrodil )


Drake

Vandril

Drake81 wrote: »

On the other hand, i like the idear of vandrillordepreup18_ESO.

At least someone understands how that would work. Everyone else thinks I'm trolling or has nothing to add...

Oh, and how I wish I could change my username that they gave to me to something else. I can do that, right?

@Dyvim - All your points are true in real economy. It will not, however, apply to this game economy. There is far too much supply for there to be the proper amount of demand to satisfy, because each person will only need one piece of a particular piece of gear, while this gear piece can and will be made and posted for sale by at least a handful of people PER person who's interested in buying it. Mark my words, this will drive prices down for every non-consumable item in the game, all the while the gold acquisition from questing and the like will stay the same, causing a sort of reverse-inflation via. oversupply.

In short, the only thing saving this economy now IS the unwillingness of many people to take the effort to sell. Solve this problem (which, I figure, is impossible to do while still making sales easy), though, and your market board-style AH, where you still must travel to the seller and trade, has my support.

Nazon_Katts

vandrillordepreub18_ESO wrote: »

If all this restriction by tax seems too much for you, you could also take a look at Nazon_Katts Consignment Vendor suggestion over at this thread.

Thanks for the linkage! My red-headed stepchild of a thread certainly appreciates the additional exposure.

Your take is another and probably much easier to implement solution. ESO doesn't seem to have your typical MMO economy. it's much closer to single player ones. A global AH would have a very noticeable and not only positive effect, so I think it's vital to keep thinking outside of the box.

However, I dislike the current setup so much, I'd deem an unrestricted global AH the lesser of two evils.

Arsvita

vandrillordepreub18_ESO wrote: »

Drake81 wrote: »

On the other hand, i like the idear of vandrillordepreup18_ESO.

At least someone understands how that would work. Everyone else thinks I'm trolling or has nothing to add...

Oh, and how I wish I could change my username that they gave to me to something else. I can do that, right.

So the Guild Auction House is a great way of interaction with other players?

How many people know each other, really, in those large market houses?

How many of those unknown "players" are actually gold sellers in the mists of names that are already playing the system?

Malediktus
May 2 edited May 2
Its simple tell them you will only sell per pick up and your prices arent negotiable. Most people will cave in, because thats still better than spending time finding another seller. I can pretty much buy up a lot of stuff from the 5 guild stores have access to and sell it for at least 50-100% more without having to pay any taxes.

Not saying a gold seller, but this is a self proclaimed guild member "Playing the System" and messing with the games "Economy" already.

It looks like the guilds stores (AH), perhaps, need that 100%+ added fee to the buyers like you would wish on any possible AH that may come along.

The flood gates have already been opened within the guild (AH) market.

A system of checks and balances (sort of like a Free Market that can set prices by people who are only willing to buy or sell at particular prices) needs to be implemented across the boards.

This is especially true with the possibility of Guild Only Open Stall Markets. To the lesser guilds that may know everyone personally, but are not large enough for a private store (AH), and to other players that enjoy spending time playing the game with their own close knit friends. Who will control the gold sellers buying, selling, and cornering the market like you claim would happen with an open AH for everyone?

It is an issue that has been pivoted around the straw-man of gold-sellers ruining everything, but not of the normal greedy people that will play the market just the same.

This is just out there to show what is already in our midst, active, and happening. The question is moot about gouging, it's there, and doubtful you can change people from playing the market, no matter who.

The question many of these people have asked, even from trading guilds, is how do I expand my ability to find what i need for crafting?

Hopefully some common ground can be reached by this with open minded debate of not what may be, but what is here and how can we fix this.

Vandril

@Arsvita - Are half of your points there toward me? Because I know that others have been spouting all that jazz, but I never said anything about community or communication or anything like that. I only care about the economic impacts an AH would cause due to the extreme shift to supply without any shift in demand causing prices to plummet while gold production, the rate at which it's being introduced into the economy, decreases only minimally.

In short, every item in the game made by every craft sans alchemy, provisioning, and POSSIBLY enchanting (these being excepted due to their consumable nature) will very quickly become almost entirely worthless in gold value in a global AH system unless extreme "taxes" (aka. deterrents of global AH use) were to be put in place.

The guild stores do not cause this due to the guild member limit of 500. There are a LOT more than 500 players, and even if a player is in 5 500-member active market guilds, that's still only a total market coverage of 2,500 players out of what is likely a few hundred thousand. The impact of guild stores on the overall pricing of goods is very minimal, and often VERY local.

The reason guild stores would not need such extreme taxes is because the pool of potential buyers is very limited. What you're paying for with the taxes to the global (possibly faction-limited, though) AH is actually convenience of having such a huge pool of potential buyers, in order to keep the economic impact of such a large coverage to a minimum.

As an aside, abusing the limited coverage by buying and reselling in other markets for a huge profit margin is a basic marketing tactic, both in real life and the game. That's not a bad thing, it's just an effect of having numerous, small, enclosed markets that are not entirely isolated from one another.

@Nazon_Katts‌ - No problem. I think that your solution is genuinely clever and very realistic, so I couldn't help but add that tidbit there as an alternative.

Arsvita

@vandrillordepreub18;

No. If you read it and many of the prior posts through you should see that I am trying to cover the relevance of much more than a couple of posts.

I quoted you for a start to show the options listed against the AH and restrictions that others agree upon to hinder efficient usage.

Besides the straw-man effect of many the same posters of "gold sellers" ruining the market, and yes they really are a blight no matter. I try to prove that point with the second quote clearly depicted by a guild person "Playing the Market" already as feared by people and the AH systems.

The system is broken, the people are using the guilds for the very purpose that the "gold sellers" would use the AH, ruining what "fair" market there may be.

I feel, and it is only opinion, strongly that there are a multitude of gold farmers selling in the guild markets already, but you will always have people that will use any methods to "Play the System".

I am sorry if you feel I singled you out. I clearly did not try to attack you, just point out that there is fear of losing either control of the market or of the harm to an economy.

I did use the second quote as a direct apology to my reasons that the system is already damaged, both by guild markets and people whom take advantage of getting hold of items that others want, all while avoiding any consequence of "100% + 25% 'taxes". They pay the guild market it's percent, jack prices for extreme profit, and sell to those that need (or want) the items.

sCouraGeFire

Join a trading guild, invite more members to it. I am a member of 3 trading guilds (leader of one), and have no problems finding anything I want. The guild channel has been better for buying things than the guild store (AH), mostly due to the AH interface.

One of the guilds only has 350 members and 99% of my stuff is sold there and I never have an issue with it. We just don't need a global or regional AH like in other games. What we do need is a better AH interface and more bankers/places to access it.

Hangtooth

To answer in a similar fashion, "seriously all these people whining about no auction house, well if you don't like it..." then don't play ESO.

The developers have a vision and I can respect that.

OzzyNOR

How about instead of tradeguilds, you'd have trade alliances, made up of guilds? The 5 guild system and their separate AH's is a very cumbersome system, and is really badly implemented. Keep the guild AH for smaller guilds but, allow bigger guilds to enter into guild-alliances with say 5-10 other guilds, with their own shared alliance AH. This would potentially increase the number of buyers and sellers to make it a bit more of a healthy economy, while still be within reasonable limits. This is something that of course would have to be limited to one of your 5 guilds, but you could be in several guilds within the same alliance. I'm not a fan of the 5 guild system to begin with, it's a mess, especially if you want to be serious about PvP.

Arsvita

OzzyNOR wrote: »

How about instead of tradeguilds, you'd have trade alliances, made up of guilds? The 5 guild system and their separate AH's is a very cumbersome system, and is really badly implemented. Keep the guild AH for smaller guilds but, allow bigger guilds to enter into guild-alliances with say 5-10 other guilds, with their own shared alliance AH. This would potentially increase the number of buyers and sellers to make it a bit more of a healthy economy, while still be within reasonable limits. This is something that of course would have to be limited to one of your 5 guilds, but you could be in several guilds within the same alliance. I'm not a fan of the 5 guild system to begin with, it's a mess, especially if you want to be serious about PvP.

I think someone above posted an answer from your camp already.

@Hangtooth,
Thanks for the reply.

Hangtooth wrote: »

To answer in a similar fashion, "seriously all these people whining about no auction house, well if you don't like it..." then don't play ESO.

The developers have a vision and I can respect that.

It may have been to those wanting an AH that was not owned and operated by the guilds, but it's still Zeni's Vision of "working as intended."