Two Handed Guide: How to increase your attack speed!

Armitas

Update: It appears that this requires 5 pieces of the Torug craft set. It's not just 5 pieces of heavy armor as I thought, but specifically 5 pieces of Torug. ("reduce weapon enchantment internal cooldown" This set bonus is getting fixed with Craglorn. Although the thread will soon be defunct I do try to recover the dps loss further in the thread if you are interested...
There are at least 4 ways to increase your attack speed while using a Two Hander.

1)Base attack speed.
Craft your 2 hander with the "weighted" trait. (A purple weapon gives you +10% attack speed)

The other options take timing and finesse. They are combo moves.

2)Heavy + Instant attack combo.
This move gives you a full heavy attack and a skill attack all in one second with only a 1/4 of the heavy attack animation. Put executioner or another instant skill on your bar. Charge your heavy attack till the sword is wound up fully then release it. After you release it immediately pop your instant skill. You will release a full heavy attack and your skill attack almost at the same instant while avoiding the tail end of the heavy attack animation.

3)Medium heavy + Light attack combo.
Normally a light attack will have to pass from the far right, to the target for damage, and then there is a relief animation to the left while the swing momentum is stopped. Or in other words a light attack is a 180 degree swing. We are going to make that a 90 degree swing and add a medium heavy attack to it.

For this attack Charge up your heavy attack, but instead of waiting till it's fully wound up release it early and immediately pop the left mouse button. You will do a cross attack, combing a medium heavy and a light attack almost at the same instant and avoid the 90 degree momentum release animation.

4) Medium heavy + Light attack Combo Chain! First master combo 3 so that you can perform it at will. Once you get that down you can chain that same combo together and avoid the animation.

1) Charge your heavy just a bit
2) release and then pop your light attack.
(so now your weapon has moved from the right to the left because of the medium heavy attack and it's now following back to the right due to the second light attack.
3) Just after your second attack passes center as it swings from left to right start charging a heavy attack and repeat the process. (if you didn't add this chain the second attack would go through it's cooldown animation where you are releasing the momentum behind you.

This is a very powerful combo chain. Use it till the mob is half health and then switch to combo 2.

3 Hit Combo - (Full Heavy + Medium Heavy + Light)
1) Fully Charge your heavy attack, Hold until the sword winds all the way back and begins to roll over the top.
2) Release the left mouse button and hit it twice more.
3) You will do a very fast 3 strike hit. Looks pretty awesome too.

____________________________________________________________________________
Once you get the hang of this you will nearly double your attack speed. If you are having trouble with combo 3 turn your sound up so you can hear the hits. You want a quick tap.tap..tap.tap, not a tap.....tap..... Think of a normal attack swing as a 180 degree swing. 90degrees of that swing is a waste as it's already hit the mob. When you hit the light attack after the medium attack you are reversing the direction of your post hit swing. As you get better the degree between 180 and 90 will get smaller and smaller. You can even get it to around 45.

Another way to envision it is imagine you are swinging a sword. You charge up, you hit the opponent, and as soon as your blade flies past your opponent you twist your wrist and reverse direction. This is what you are doing in the combo by using the left/right mouse buttons and the right timing.

I've also got a short video below showing the difference between using these combos and just spamming attacks. ESO is so much more complex than just left click mouse spamming. The first video is the main video, shot on high resolution so that you can see the combat log. However due to the resolution it's choppy and the audio doesn't quite sync up. I made a second video to help display the animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

The second video is to show case the animation for the 2 hit combo chain, shot at a lower rez so you can see it better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

The third video is to show case the animation for the 3 hit combo, I forgot to lower the rez so audio is out of sync and the attacks are a bit choppy. You can still tell by the combat log and speed whats happening. This is a good combo for opening from stealth, or for when an enemy is stunned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Scesmoon

i discovered this the other day. as a nightblade tank using leeching strikes its amazing. i personally use the full heavy + 3 light attack combo. its much harder to pull off but 4 attacks in such a short period makes my 2 hander attak speed even faster than haste. and ii get healed for each attack in the combo.

note that this also works for other melee weapons not just 2 hander

jaif13

I missed it - why is heavy armor required?

Armitas

jaif13 wrote: »

I missed it - why is heavy armor required?

No clue. It apparently requires one of the last two passives as well, and I'm guessing it's "bracing". (can't test passives, another player said he could not get it to work while missing the last two passives so I assume it's one of the last two.) There is no description on bracing that would account for it other than it requires 5 pieces.

It's just simply that if I go under 5 heavy pieces the 3 hitter and some of the longer ones not mentioned here no longer work. I have no explanation as to why, just that it either stops working or the timing is too far off to recover by the same methods.

I noticed it when I tried to try it out with the medium armor passives.

Edit: It takes 5 of the Torug set, not simply 5 heavy. So it may work with other armor types.

Axer

Looked at your videos.

It's interesting but the issue is:
A)You're killing these incrdibly weak monsters still slower then I can with duel wield, at lvl20 (on a vr5). (and vastly slower then i can with templars biting jabs - which essentially 1 shots them stealthed or 2-3 hits un (which is only 4-6 seconds as its a very fast anim).

(tho yea it works with other styles too, only is kind of grossly overpowered in their cases)

It's not clearly intended. You aren't meant to be able to get 3 attacks at once. It's a glitch in the animations. I'd say don't fix it since even with this, two handed is still very weak.. But yea, chances are it will get fixed since you got videos up here for the devs to see.

Armitas

Axer wrote: »

Looked at your videos.

It's interesting but the issue is:
A)You're killing these incrdibly weak monsters still slower then I can with duel wield, at lvl20 (on a vr5). (and vastly slower then i can with templars biting jabs - which essentially 1 shots them stealthed or 2-3 hits un (which is only 4-6 seconds as its a very fast anim).

(tho yea it works with other styles too, only is kind of grossly overpowered in their cases)

It's not clearly intended. You aren't meant to be able to get 3 attacks at once. It's a glitch in the animations. I'd say don't fix it since even with this, two handed is still very weak.. But yea, chances are it will get fixed since you got videos up here for the devs to see.

Thank you for your input, and I'm happy for your success with Dual Wield, but this is a guide on how to increase your attack speed while using a 2 hander. Whether you can do more damage as a Templar or with DW really has no relevancy to the guide as it's intention is not to compare DPS between weapon types but to provide a guide for improving ones attack speed while using a two hander.

MasterRyu2011

Thank you armitas! This will be very helpful. To Axer, while your argument is probably valid this is about two handers. Also I don't really see that this can be abused to a point that devs take notice. If anything it makes the already skilled based combat system more skilled based which is the direction they are going for only.

jvargas150_ESO

So to have good dps we have to cheat the system using a 2hander?

This game is getting lame..

Armitas

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

So to have good dps we have to cheat the system using a 2hander?

This game is getting lame..

Yeah to get any dps out of these 2 Handers you are going to have to use the right timing. But animation flexibility is quite prolific across MMO's so I would not begin calling it cheating until they make an official comment. I would not have posted it if I thought it was cheating. (People have already asked for an official comment)

Animation reductions are easily avoidable by matching action duration with animation duration, yet in most of the MMO's I have played they have always left this head room open for reduction. We also have "instant" skills in this game, and these skills are designed to fulfill the remaining animation portion of prior attacks so that the skill can occur immediately. The other reason I think that it is not an accident is that the timing is intuitive. It makes sense within the sword play, in fact that is how I came across the combos. I started clicking like I was really swinging a sword and Voilà! I was swinging my sword just like I imagined.

If it were to turn out to be an accidental byproduct I hope that they would recognize the tremendous value of intuitive combat and incorporate it into their intentions. Especially, as you rightly point out, where 2hand appears to be without it.

Celless

Thanks again for the vids!

Armitas

Celless wrote: »

Thanks again for the vids!

NP glad to help. (I found out it's getting fixed with craglorn).

KingDasDing

Axer wrote: »

Looked at your videos.

It's interesting but the issue is:
A)You're killing these incrdibly weak monsters still slower then I can with duel wield, at lvl20 (on a vr5). (and vastly slower then i can with templars biting jabs - which essentially 1 shots them stealthed or 2-3 hits un (which is only 4-6 seconds as its a very fast anim).

(tho yea it works with other styles too, only is kind of grossly overpowered in their cases)

It's not clearly intended. You aren't meant to be able to get 3 attacks at once. It's a glitch in the animations. I'd say don't fix it since even with this, two handed is still very weak.. But yea, chances are it will get fixed since you got videos up here for the devs to see.

You know that VR Mobs are pretty overpowered and nowhere comparable to the normal Mobs?

Axer

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

So to have good dps we have to cheat the system using a 2hander?

This game is getting lame..

Actually upon using this Technic more and reviewing the animations a bit more myself (you can't tell from this video, its too choppy)

I think the 2 hit combo is actually 100% intended.

As it has a unique, special animation. They wouldn't of programmed a new animation in if it wasn't.

I don't think it's intended ot hit 3 times, the animation only looks like a 2 hit, but I could be wrong.. As it could be simply a balance thing..

As duel wield has this too, and it hits 3 times - as that make sense - the regular heavy attack hits twice, as both weapon ***, then you do a fast backhand slash, for a third hit.
- So the two handed one maybe just was given an extra hit for balance purposes.

They could of explained this in the tutorial tho honestly. Pretty weird to have it be so hidden.

re:
MasterRyu:
You'd think so. Yet I played another mmo, and used an advanced attack technique other players did not use to get more dps too, which was quite similar to this. After some years I posted a guide and video of how to do it, as so many asked me what I was doing. Some months later, the technique was nerfed.

re:
KingDasKing
Oh yea had no idea. I got to VR5 by never fighting VR mobs I guess? Magicka perhaps?

Armitas

Axer wrote: »

I think the 2 hit combo is actually 100% intended.

As it has a unique, special animation. They wouldn't of programmed a new animation in if it wasn't.

I don't think it's intended ot hit 3 times, the animation only looks like a 2 hit, but I could be wrong.. As it could be simply a balance thing..

I agree. I have already ditched the Torug set to practice other means and the 2 hit H/L is still occurring albeit slower. All those combo's relied on a heavy first then a light, it's just the GCD change allowed the heavy to occur under it's minimum length. So it was definitely playing on that already existing combo you mention. Like you say that one has got to be intended.

__________

As the guide is now defunct the only thing I could say at this point regarding attack speed and 2 Hand dps is to forgo the attack speed trait and go for the crit trait instead. The fastest and most damaging combo I have seen is Heavy/light/instant. The good thing about the 2 hander is most of the damage is pushed into your regular attacks. (executioner, Momentum, arcane fighter) So this leaves you with a mostly untouched stamina pool. As a DK if you run Heavy/Light/Searing Strike then Heavy/Light/Executioner until the SS dot wears off you can get around 450-500 dps on a boss fight. While the executioner may not yet be optimized it still does more than a light attack and it's instant. While you are running this combo you will have several dots ticking in between attacks. Molten weapon, weapon glyph, Searing Strike. As the fight goes on all your attack damage will increase due to executioner passive along with executioner itself.

Thats 450-500 boss dps in heavy armor, and still not fully optimized for dps. I'm training up medium armor now for the crit chance, stamina regen and attack speed. So I expect that number to go up significantly. The crits I'm seeing now leave me pretty optimistic.

So basically you want to build the following 3 things while running those two attack combos.

1)Keep up auto dots through arcane fighter, molten weapon, weapon glyph and a magic skill dot with high initial damage and with a significant dot like searing strike.

2)Maximize your weapon damage through crafting (improvement and hundings rage set or ice furnace etc), Molten weapons, Flawless Dawn Breaker, Momentum, Slotting executioner. (you should be able to hit OC for weapon damage fairly easily)

3)Grab crit from anywhere you can. Craft (Divine trait for mundus stone buff, crit on weapon), thief mundus stone (bugged until craglorn), and Medium armor.

I can't say that this is the best way but it seems to be working so far and it seems to me to play directly off the strengths of the 2 hander while avoiding the weakness of the 2 hander (attack speed).

Celless

You may be able to do a heavy-light-instant-bash. Though it can be stamina-intensive if your instant is a weapon ability.

Still playing around with it.