Set up to Fail

Kazren

A repeating theme is that they give us a series of quest on our level we can complete, then there's a solo-only big boss fight that, at least half the time, is impossible to complete solo at level. An example is the quest to go into Americ's dream. SPOILER ALERT






SPOILER ALERT




Not only do you have to defeat him multiple times, then you're faced with a demon of some kind who is impossible to defeat, since he spawns adds and he has about twice more more health than the player character has.

I'm not discussing this particular instance, but the theme that keeps crashing down. We get through a chain of quests only to run into an obstacle like this one.

I for one do not like it.

What about the rest of you?

mlstevens42_ESO

I do not agree. I can agree that some may be challenging for some. The key in the fight you are commenting on is resource management. No he is not impossible to defeat.

Noth

I did not run into anything as far as solo content goes that I could not solo. I even solo'd some groups things.

amysue23_ESO

MMO's should never have forced solo quests.

Memnock

Its a bloody class/guild story , it should be solo , you are the protagonist , you are the center of attention , that is the part of the game that is more akin to the single player TESO games , that this one draws its origins from , and really saying that MMOs should not have any solo quests , is just silly , this is a story driven MMO , where you are the guy who is supposed to be on a quest to get his bloody soul back so it is kind of logical , that you are the main attention focus in your own damn story , or different arcs that you decide to do , like guild quests. YOU are joining that guild , YOU are embarked on an adventure with the prophet and the rest of the people who you meet along the way , not you + your entire friend list and guild roster
As a last note , if really helps if you actually pay attention to the body language of the NPCs that you are fighting , it really pais off to read their movements and see when they are preparing for a big hitter . At the moment i main a level 30 Sorcerer Vampire and all the quests and solo-able content so far , were extremely easy to complete once i was actually paying attention to my environment and to the body language of the NPCs.

Loxy37

I had a couple of issues in BETA but its about learning tactics. I come from the school of Everquest but over the years MMOs have become dumbed down beasts and I'm as guilty as the next for now expecting that in all MMOs. Its so refreshing to feel my blood race on those Tactical fights and we need more of the same.

scarsreminder80

bigBossHealth = 100;
addsPerPlayer = 2;
group = groupsize;

fight.event
bigBossHealth = 100 * group;
addsPerPlayer = 2 * group;

//this is an *Extremely simplified code*(so don't pick it apart people!!) to keep the challenge for players but eliminate the forced solo quests.

I play with friends and family regularly and don't particularly like the fact that, even when grouped, I am forced into the "phase" to complete certain quests.

And my family has a tendency to be .... um.... sucky ... so the added support for them would cut down on some of the stress and "wipe/try again while I wait for you" time

scarsreminder80

Memnock wrote: »

it really pais off to read ...

Yep. It really pays off to read...


I'm so sorry man! I had to!... I read that line and took it so far out of context that it might not even be funny. But it made me laugh. Thank you!

Sharee

On the contrary. The fact the game is actually challenging means it is set up to succeed.

Dark Souls isn't so popular for being easy either.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

scarsreminder80 wrote: »

bigBossHealth = 100;
addsPerPlayer = 2;
group = groupsize;

fight.event
bigBossHealth = 100 ^ group;
addsPerPlayer = 2 ^ group;

With how much a well put together group makes things easier, the changes I made to the above would be a better formula to keep the challenge present.

DFDelta

I have not yet found content that was impossible to beat on the level given in the journal.

Everything so far (level 35~ish) has been the same old combination of learning which moves you can block (which will often stun the attacker for a rather long time), which you should dodge and during which you go full dps.
It is mostly the exact same thing, with sometimes one extra skill thrown in. (Summoning adds, healing itself, or similar)

Once you've more or less mastered that everything becomes rather easy.

Zordrage

Don't nerf them ....

challenge is good or you make the players boring......

like in many MANY mmos where nowdays you just run and aggro 20 mobs+miniboss /Elite and single handedly beat em all at once in a matter of 30+ sec with half HP remaining..........

its just mehhhhh....

Thybrinena

Sorry @Kazren I simply do not agree. There's a way of doing everything, and be it a tactica, gear or build issue there's a challenge in not being able to faceroll stuff that keeps many folks in the game. I sympathise that you had a hard time but there's far more reaons why that could be the case other than, the boss is too hard etc. I've not encountered any boss that I could not kill, and whilst sometimes It'll take more than the first attempt, I like the challenge. MMOs of the last 5-10 years have been dumbed down and I particularly enjoy the fact that the content here is not easy. Just wait until you geto to VR!

TRG_Ebrasu

I have yet to find a solo boss that I could not defeat at level. Have I been killed multiple time by the same boss before I discovered I need to do X defeat their attack? Sure, but that is the nature of the game. I for one hope they do not nerf the boss fights to the drooling button mashing easy fests that MMO's have become in recent years.

Fighting a boss should difficult at the same level, it should be extremely difficult if the boss is a higher level. If a game is set up where you can mosey into fight with a solo boss that is higher level than you and it doesn't stomp you into a sticky puddle, the game is broken.

KiroElmarok

DK here. SnB/Destro, 5heavy/2light.

I have yet to run into something I cannot pass. Sure I had to retry a few boss fights and change skills on my bar... but isn't that the point of the game? To learn and adapt?

Edit: If you face roll in ESO, you're gunna have a bad time.

(Never be hasty to use all your Mana and Stam or you'll die really quick.

NordJitsu

Instead of complaining about difficult bosses, you should view them as learning opportunities.

I can tell you that throughout the Beta the difficulty of these bosses was regularly decreased. The first time I leveled a character to VR, there were several meaningful boss fights that challenged me.

This time through, I have not been challenged at all by a single boss (because they were nerfed into the ground.)

If you are dying to the current bosses, you have no chance at all in Vet Rank content. You need to work on improving your player skill and perfecting your build. Just throwing whatever you "like" on your bar isn't going to cut it. You don't need to be a min-maxer, but you do need to be intelligent about the way things synergize together.

Thechemicals

I have had a similar experience with the Op. The "save merric quest in stonefang" was difficult for me.Even when i discovered that you need to destroy the soul orbs, i found it unreasonable that one orb can restore the boss and worse that these orbs can spawn so close to the boss. I eventually beat it and it was a challenging fight, but i am a good player and my wife is not. When we entered this instance we were separated into our own individual instances, and her being a healer, she had a very hard time fighting this boss and became frustrated. She never beat this boss and i told her we would have to come back.

For many years, i would argue against making a game easier and never liked the changes made for casuals who weren't as good or had as much time until now. I know both sides of the argument, but it takes understanding, that their are more bad players than good players at the starting point of all games. She needed help and i could not help her and we have only been playing 2-3 nights on low level characters. I believe that having to google a way to beat a boss and then not being able to help a fellow party member during a tough fight, all the while being low level and a healer class with average gaming skills is wrong.

mark2472

While I haven't had any trouble with any of the bosses so far, I can see how some people might have trouble. I agree that level 8ish may be a bit low to start throwing bosses like this at the players. I think after 15 is a good time to start introducing these more difficult bosses. The reason I say 15 is because that's when you get your second weapon. Healers are already specced in magicka, so picking up a destro staff and doing some dps as your secondary weapon should be enough to allow healers to be able to take down some of these tougher bosses.

Should even help most any other type of play-style to have more utility in boss fights. These boss fights definitely require utility.

scarsreminder80

the fights are a perfect level of difficulty. There is no question of that. This isn't WoW and you don't get things for free.

We all play the hero. But take a moment to look at the other side of coin.

Lets say your a firey Imp, or even Doshia herself. You are striving to complete the dark lord's demands. So you start attacking to defend against or even eliminate the hero. You have done this against 100 heroes today. They came to try to stop you. And you have lost every time... except this time.

Now Imagine how the developers look at this.

I created a battle. right now its 100 losses 1 win. I wonder if I Should tweak it a little to make it more interesting. or if I should just....

But I do think they should allow Grouped individuals to chose if they want to fight together or fight solo. Not be forced into a confrontation that the other members of the group have to wait on.

mark2472

Yea, I wish they allowed you to group... even if they upped the difficulty for the number of players in the group. Especially for those of us that are trying to get their significant others to start playing the game... lol.

First time they're playing an MMO and they come across this, which is nearly unbeatable for someone that's never played an MMO before.

mlstevens42_ESO

I can say that as a sorcerer using a resto staff I had no trouble.

Some of it is resource management as I said some of it is just learning the game. Some games allow you to basically stand in one spot and beat on the enemy until dead this one does not do this.

Early in the game some may not know they should have at least one aoe skill or know to block or dodge have a bit of healing whether pots or skills. They may not watch for aoes that the critter does and interrupt the cast or move.

Further I watched one player have terrible time just keeping their character facing the enemy as the screen spun crazily while they tried to kill the enemy they were facing. Are they a terrible player? No but this game is different then the ones they have been playing and so not used to the controls.

I will say the overwhelming amount of people all running around may have contributed to the trouble. Because before these fights they had few chances of actually taking on anything alone or even just the two of us. If you run with a horde you do not need to learn how to do any of those things that will get you through a tough fight. Did they have enough gear leveled big enough right skills on the bar? Answer to all yes really I think I may have altered one skill as I did not know what the one they had did and I knew what the one I was placing there did.

They grew frustrated and I completed the fight for them. I noted where they seemed to have trouble and they did much better after that. Just a learning curve is all. Be patient do not give up so easily.

Kazren

Thanks, everyone, for your input. And... I will pay attention to body language, but in that floating eye it can be a little odd.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

Kazren wrote: »

Thanks, everyone, for your input. And... I will pay attention to body language, but in that floating eye it can be a little odd.

Zoom out. You only hurt yourself staying in first person mode. (at least that's what I think you're referencing)

Cherryblossom

Remember you can block while using your skills, there's no need to get hit hard...

byghostlightrwb17_ESO

Kazren wrote: »

A repeating theme is that they give us a series of quest on our level we can complete, then there's a solo-only big boss fight that, at least half the time, is impossible to complete solo at level. An example is the quest to go into Americ's dream. SPOILER ALERT






SPOILER ALERT




Not only do you have to defeat him multiple times, then you're faced with a demon of some kind who is impossible to defeat, since he spawns adds and he has about twice more more health than the player character has.

I'm not discussing this particular instance, but the theme that keeps crashing down. We get through a chain of quests only to run into an obstacle like this one.

I for one do not like it.

What about the rest of you?

I disagree this game needs challenges, I am loving it but it is far too friendly, too much of the time. I say that as a person who hates boss fights with a passion. I find its great they test us on things, that makes us rethink and reread what our attacks do. I got really stuck on one which, frustrating, I know what I had to do it but just couldn't defeat. But then instead of using my standard set up, I thought outside the box and tried something new. Which I incorporated into my normal rotation.

That said I know there will be a time one day I will get stuck and be far less interested/tolerant in learning a lesson

cf398ub17_ESO

only took me one fight to get him down and i was a level 21

Skylandra

cf398ub17_ESO wrote: »

only took me one fight to get him down and i was a level 21

Same ( though I don't remember my level) I used the skelleton adds to boost my ultimate each time and then went nuclear on the boss ( was using 2H at the time). However I am a DK and Green Dragon Blood is a Very powerful skill....
Tip:
I use potions of stamina and health all the time when I game ( I only sell/swap magika ones) and I create my own as well and they are the best!!!

Charkat

I successfully completed this fight the first time. It really does come down to resource management and the versatility of your two weapon loadouts. I am primarily melee based with dual wield. But encounters like these sometimes require I switch to my ranged/kiting destruction staff loadout.

I found other solo-only encounters to be far more difficult than this one. I even had to fail them a couple of times until I figured out a better approach. Adapt and persevere. You'll be a better player for it.

SybleyStarfire

I'm about to guess that the players who were quick to answer how successful they were with the bosses are probably fairly experienced or "naturals". I think it is great that they are given a challenge that delights them. That's what a game should do! Good for them - BAD for the new players!!!!!!
-
So far, I have been able to kill all of them. Sometimes took a few deaths until I figure out the technique (gah! the repair bills here - what a money sink!) I'm not a beginning noob; but would consider myself as fairly new to the game and a "decent" gamer who is still learning. But all I could think about is "How on earth would a new gamer be able to handle this?" They wouldn't. They will quit the game. I have already lost some friends - some who are good players - who are upset with the many bugs; the high cost of surviving; and the very hard bosses. I know I will definitely not recommend this game to a new gamer.

So either Zenimax accepts that they will have a limited audience or they figure out how to leave the challenge in place for the more expert players and a way for the noobs and less expert players to be able to succeed without diluting the experience. I don't know what the answer is - perhaps the player could choose the level of difficulty and the reward would scale to their choice?

Moonclaw

Died once on Emerics dream then nailed it (same level as quest) and felt really happy about that (Nightblade) Main thing is, as always to be mobile, agile and react to what is going on . I like that I need to think about these fights

cf398ub17_ESO

Skylandra wrote: »

cf398ub17_ESO wrote: »

only took me one fight to get him down and i was a level 21

Same ( though I don't remember my level) I used the skelleton adds to boost my ultimate each time and then went nuclear on the boss ( was using 2H at the time). However I am a DK and Green Dragon Blood is a Very powerful skill....
Tip:
I use potions of stamina and health all the time when I game ( I only sell/swap magika ones) and I create my own as well and they are the best!!!

i am a sorcerer so i just used my clanfear to distract him and then spammed him with lightning bolts and crystal shards