Nightblade later skills does not tempt at all at first glance...

Drachdhar

What the title says basically...

Currently I do not feel particularly tempted to invest in any of class skills beyond tier 2, they do not stand out as something necessary or rather something one would like to have at ones skill bar except at some very specific situations, and it being rather much of a bother to change skills for just one situation who can be bothered really... Especially when the first two tier skills can often solve the issue just as well.

Anyone got a good reason as to why one should invest further when leveling, when skill points are better spent at other places maybe?

//Not the right forum, but could avoid doing multiple posts.
Same with Dual Wield, only Flurry seems to be worth having. The rest seems just inferior at first glance, especially for a nightblade who can get similiar effects from early class skills.
Again, can anyone motivate taking more skills in that line?

Drachdhar

I also feel that tooltips needs to be improved across the board, for all classes and skill lines. For example, what constitutes a "low health target" for the purpose of Assassins Blade?
How much more damage does that skill do against a target with 70% health, or against a target with 25% health. I have no clue.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

You want to have the last spell of the siphon tree just so you can increase all damage done by 99% for 20 second i guess... xD

Its clearly writen that any target Under 25% of its health (specificaly usefull for boss) will take 3 time the normal damage from this attack

SirPuppingtonVonHat

Have you seen any of the morphs for those abilities? Those can be the difference maker. Also, what type of character are you playing and what role?

Teloran

Both Siphoning Strikes and Drain Power are very powerful skills. The shade and Blur are also very good for taking.

As for dual wield, Whirlwind is a very strong AoE when your enemies are under 50% and the dagger throw is the strongest ranged stamina attack in the game.

Drachdhar

SirPuppingtonVonHat wrote: »

Have you seen any of the morphs for those abilities? Those can be the difference maker. Also, what type of character are you playing and what role?

Solo stealther, pvp scout or some such, group based straight DPS

Only checked the morphs here http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/, and the info is a bit lacking

sirvincentiii

IMO, everything in the Assassination line is worth taking if you are heavily armored and a melee NB. Shadow is great if you are using mainly staff and light armor. Siphoning is great with bow -- really great.

So it depends on how you build your character, NB has a skill line for it.

Raubrey

sirvincentiii wrote: »

IMO, everything in the Assassination line is worth taking if you are heavily armored and a melee NB. Shadow is great if you are using mainly staff and light armor. Siphoning is great with bow -- really great

I can see going light armor for a "warlock" build, but this class seems meant for medium armor (or at least 5/2) between bonuses and stamina drain.

The heavy armor sorc build I'm hearing about makes more sense to me then this.

Are there many mid-late game heavy armor nightblades running around? What is the rationale? The Nightblade is really about DPS, crit and often mobility as I see it but I'll keep an open mind should someone show otherwise...

Sleepwalker

Raubrey wrote: »

Are there many mid-late game heavy armor nightblades running around? What is the rationale? The Nightblade is really about DPS, crit and often mobility as I see it but I'll keep an open mind should someone show otherwise...

Mid-level healer NB right here. I keep some heavy armor on for the regen at all times, and medium armor doesn't interest me as I have no stamina suckers on my bar. DPS generally only concerns me when solo (and even then, not very much as they'll still need a small army to kill me no matter how long I'm fighting them), so I wouldn't say that "a NB is about DPS, crit, and mobility". Not true for all of us anyway. Maybe you meant "melee" NB's?

On topic with the OP, I too have felt that I can stop looking at the class trees as nothing seemed to pop out at me. Though after hearing someone say that Shadow worked well for magic users, maybe I'll revisit that one. Never really invested time into reading over the tool tips there.

Anxiously waiting to morph Drain Power into Sap Essence though! As if healing wasn't easy enough already...

Raubrey

Thanks for the reply

Sleepwalker wrote: »

Raubrey wrote: »

so I wouldn't say that "a NB is about DPS, crit, and mobility". Not true for all of us anyway. Maybe you meant "melee" NB's?

Thanks for the reply. I pretty much meant in general but with efficiency and effectiveness in mind.

I don't see a NB healer sustaining a group mid-late game (post-beta), and if they can are (most likely) using light armor +/- vampire, but Nightblade off-heals are really nice.

For heavy armor the Templar appears a better choice both for Bowplar and Healer. However, a healer NB sounds like a decent option for groups plagued with too many NBs and not enough healers or again as off-healers.

But, in regards to the OP, I probably should have limited the question to include heavy armor w/bow. I think recommending heavy armor for this class (other than 1-2 pieces) ... is not the best route if you are DPS , which is usually the case.

Sleepwalker

Raubrey wrote: »

I don't see a NB healer sustaining a group mid-late game, (and if they can are using light armor +/- vampire) but Nightblade off-heals are really nice.... However, a healer NB sounds like a decent option for groups plagued with too many NBs and not enough healers or again as off-healers.

Care to explain in more detail why you can't see that? I can't speak from end-game experience yet, but from a "mid-game" viewpoint, we heal like gods. I would sure hope that end-game wouldn't cookie cutter us back to rogues... running around poking things with knives... *cringe*

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

I run nightblade as MAIN healer in lvl 40+ instance (curently lvl 46)

Raubrey

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

I run nightblade as MAIN healer in lvl 40+ instance (curently lvl 46)

You sig says you are a bloodmage (light armor?) and I allowed for that possibility ("MAIN healer in lvl 40+ instance " -- too vague to respond to)...there are many specifics to cover (to determine if this is a viable build for more than a few players) -- and late game has yet to reveal itself mainstream.

And as far as I know even with the templar nerf, you can't out heal a templar and NB healer is more situational. I could be wrong. I'm looking forward to testing it out.

I guess a new thread would be optimal.

Regardless heavy armor + NB = not so good.

Sleepwalker

Bloodmage = NB + Vampire, I believe. (Feel free to correct me if that's wrong.)

I don't think I said anything about out-healing anyone. Templars are all kinds of shiny right now, so I wouldn't make that distinction. I do know that my groups kill all with smiles on their faces because of my healing, so that's all the experience I need to say that NB's can heal just fine mid-game. And no, not situational... unless by situational, you somehow mean ALL situations.

Raubrey

My point is that anyone can pick up a resto staff and call themselves a healer. The NB has some awesome healing abilities.

That said, I don't know why anyone would choose to be a NB healer if a better healer is available when they don't even know if it is viable end-game -- UNLESS it was for soloing or specific situations that the NB shines in -- or to play conventional nightblade / off-healer.

If what you're doing works for you -- that's great.

I'm going to keep reading on it and experimenting with it but meanwhile am going to use my main to its more apparent maximum potential...until I tire of it and switch, anyway.

I see what ESO and players are doing or trying to do with novel builds, but personally I am finding I miss some of the class distinctions ... why have a class if they don't excel at anything in particular. And as far as I know the NB still excels at DPS.

Sleepwalker

I see that you and I are in different camps then. You've picked up the character that the current balance of the game says can put out the most healing potential and are playing in accordance with that - an elitist principle, I believe. I, on the other hand, play the character that I like, provided that it is viable for the role I intend to play. Quick question though... when the templar gets nerfed, what then? Re-roll? None for me, thanks.

It's not important to me what class heals the best right now. This game has allowed for such close-minded thinking to not be the standard for once in our MMO-loving lives. I only care that the class that I like healing with can provide the necessary avenue to succeed in the game content that I intend to play. I've done more than "pick up a restoration staff and call myself a healer"; I've morphed powers, adjusted my stats, and closed off that logic path in my head that links Nightblades to Rogues *cringes again*. But that's just me... to each his/her own - a phrase that now means something in this virtual world of ours.

Raubrey

Actually, I am the opposite of elitist. I want a healer that will be able to perform a massive group heal because regular players make mistakes -- (and there are damage spikes to consider).

While I do believe people in a group have a responsibility to use self-heals, I am not sharing the mindset of Kyubi who apparently believes the "bad players" will be out of the game in two months:

(I don't consider people who make mistakes bad players as long as they sooner or later learn from them -- but yes, skill varies, stuff happens, laugh or cry, move on).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/66403/bloodmage-build-nightblade-healer#latest

I also don't consider people that can't run a dungeon without a healer a bad player.

In any case, nerfed or not, I know the Templar will be able to do the job.

I can't say that about the NB. This has nothing to do about elitism ...this has to do with focusing on being a good healer (not saying you aren't one) -- and not a DPS healer.

The NB healer is typically for people who want to DPS etc. and those that can do it and want to run with groups that don't require templar-level heals -- more power to them.

I still don't know how you do it in heavy armor though.

Sleepwalker

Fair enough. And yes, I'll concede on the heavy armor portion as I wear it for solo activity and agree that it won't have as much utility in a group setting.

On the healing topic, I'm not at the end-game yet, so I can't say what works there. I can only hope that after all of this excitement about playing a character that you want (i.e. a healer with a bow, a sorcerer that tanks, a mage that wears heavy armor, etc.), they would not pigeon-hole the four classes into tank, dps, dps, heals. That is definitely not what ES games are about, and the notion of one going there literally makes my stomach turn...

Ravinsild

I think mark target and haste are great, I just can't be bothered to put them on my secondary bar, use them, swap back to main bar etc...So I don't. Theoretically they're super good in my head though.

That said: I've only got the first two skills in Shadow and I've leveled Shadow to 50 and gotten all the passives. i've been THINKING about grabbing the Shade just to see what it does but...mehh

And I have 0 points in Siphon.

Raubrey

Can't argue with that Sleepwalker and thanks for giving me something to think about. Not that i need more things to love about the NB but ...my interest in piqued. I really hope it stays a viable healing class for group stuff.

sirvincentiii

Raubrey wrote: »

sirvincentiii wrote: »

IMO, everything in the Assassination line is worth taking if you are heavily armored and a melee NB. Shadow is great if you are using mainly staff and light armor. Siphoning is great with bow -- really great

I can see going light armor for a "warlock" build, but this class seems meant for medium armor (or at least 5/2) between bonuses and stamina drain.

The heavy armor sorc build I'm hearing about makes more sense to me then this.

Are there many mid-late game heavy armor nightblades running around? What is the rationale? The Nightblade is really about DPS, crit and often mobility as I see it but I'll keep an open mind should someone show otherwise...

NB Shadow Mage build
Silver bolts (morph: Silver Shards) - Stamina dump - Fighter's Guild
Veiled Strike (m: Surprise attack) - Shadow
Summon Shades (m: Dark shades) - Shadow
Mark Target (m: Reaper's Mark) - Assassination
Shadow Cloak (m: Shadowy Disguise) - Shadow

Consuming Darkness (m: Veil of Blades) - Shadow Ultimate

Elemental Force - Passive - Destruct Staff
Destruction Expert - Passive - Destruct Staff
All passive - Light Armor

I hope that gives some insight.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Templar better healer yea right no sorry I don't believe that I main healed every dungeon in the game witheout much effort and soon I will enter Veteran zone

Im currently farming the vault of madness for exp loot and crafting level they can add as many mechanics as they want to the game I will be ready for them.

Bloodmage refers to siphon/shadow/vampire/restoration

-Funnel health
-invigorating drain
-refreshing path/healing springs/Sap essence
-rapid regeneration
-Healing ward

-Devouring swarm/Soul siphon


Ill tell you this much Nightblade funnels deals damage and heals, it hasn't been proved yet if it can stack on itself but I think it grow in intensity the more you use it (would means I can easily outheal per second the best Templar just by stacking my funnel). Refreshing path last 3 time what Healing spring does and heals for the same amount altrought it doesn't restore mana when it hits a lot of target but this isn't alliance war this is dungeons. What makes healing Templar so interesting are their heavy heal spells but to be honest having a full heal ability is not required and Ive proven so far that I didn't need one, when a target is about to get nuked I shield it and it regenerate back to full health after a time problem solved. Party get nuked? healing zone and problem solved
The verdict is don't need a healing nuke to get the things done just as good as those priest wannabe.

My gear and build has evolved a lot since day 1 when I created it and it can rival the Templars in therm of party healing with ease. Who cares if I don't have a full heal spell I heal so much HP over time people barely get scratched. Templar has a few interesting spells but dedicating to Templar full heals means behing a damageless build as well due to the absence of damaging spell in the Templar healing lines. Most interesting Is i do the same job without problem and I deal damage at the same time... with a healing spell -_o. Resto staff on its own can do a similar job to Templars. Add to it a few class healing spells and you get something even better. Templar advantage is that it can use any weapon while still using his healing spell still some of the best healing spell in the game are bound to the restoration staff and as such using it should be mandatory to any healing build. Better yet the damaging effects of my spells benefits from restoration staff high health effect.

Ive main healed all dungeon in the game and save for the blessed crucible wich was somewhat difficult due to the absence of a tank and the fact two of us were vampires I never even had an issue with healing dungeons as a nightblade siphon user. Im effective and my team agree to it.

Looking forward to veteran in 1 lvl