I'm honestly worried about the future of this game...

Zombocalypse · November 8

Mainly because I recently watched one of those top 10/15/20 lists that are common in YouTube. What truly worried me is the fact that I was watching something specifically about roleplaying games and one of them is actually an MMO to be released in 2025. And boy, that thing looks stunning.

It made me wonder if these types of MMOs are gonna end up dominating the market soon and their visuals are (undoubtedly) multiple-times better than ESO... Then what's gonna be the future of this game if those guys are just a step away? ESO definitely has a loyal playerbase, great system, great story, a part of a great title, but it's only a matter of a few years before new MMOs end up getting advertised. I'm sure a chunk of the ESO playerbase may end up getting lured away and umm...

Look man, I love this game. But I'm worried.

fizzylu · November 8

There's always new MMOs being announced/released and rarely is a new MMO the cause of another MMO declining.

The only threat to ESO, or any other MMO, is itself. And sadly, I would say there are many things to be worried about in ESO's case currently.... it's just simply not "the next insert MMO name killer".

Taril · November 8

MMO's are a fickle thing.

Plenty of MMO's have come and gone that "Looked" promising, but then ended up falling flat.

Even games that are targeting specific titans as a new "Killer" always fail.

The reasons are usually the same:

1) Over promising. An MMO is a very big game. Like, very, very big. The nature of them is that they are based on eating up a ton of players time. It's hard enough to make a compelling title as is, without the extra hoops of the added scale and systems an MMO requires.

This usually means that new MMO's miss the mark(s) on various aspects which harms their initial playerbase. Then without the significant playerbase and massive growth necessary to sustain a new title, they quickly die.

2) Sunk-cost fallacy. MMO fans are generally already playing an MMO. Why would these people leave their friends/communities and characters they've put thousands of hours into to play a brand new MMO?

You can't even use a methodology of "Why not both?" because of the whole nature of MMO's being designed to eat up time, it's hard to play multiple MMO's full time (Then of course you have monetization to worry about, be it subscriptions or paid premium services that can be cost prohibitive to many players)

3) Lack of content. Many existing MMO's have been around for a while. Meaning they have many years worth of content additions, balance passes and overhauls under their belt. New MMO's often come out kind of weak in comparison (And usually don't last long enough to do anything else)

4) Lack of innovation. Quite a number of MMO's seek to try and outperform existing titles by... Doing the same thing as them. Surprisingly, doing the exact same thing as an existing (And populated) game doesn't make people want to jump ship to a new one.

All these new MMO's that have come out... Yet I'm still receiving emails about new expansions for Everquest 2 that are getting released (Came out the same year as WoW, but didn't hit the massive success of WoW but still is going strong enough that new content is being released. No maintenance mode there)

The future of an MMO is not having competitors rise up. It's all about what the MMO itself can do. Can it keep up with being fun and interesting in the face of competitors? Or will it become boring and stagnant and bleed players who flock to whatever happens to be available at the time?

WoW is still going even after multiple times it struggled, because it managed to bring things back (Though it was dubious around the time Shadowlands and Shadowbringers were new. Shadowlands being not a great hit for WoW while FFXIV was knocking it out of the park with Shadowbringers leading to some large exodus from WoW to FFXIV)

In short, ESO can continue even in the face of new MMO's (Even if those new MMO's actually succeed and don't die after a few months like so many before them). It's all about what it can do to remain fun and relevant rather than "How shiny and pretty" a new game looks.

moderatelyfatman · November 8

fizzylu wrote: »

There's always new MMOs being announced/released and rarely is a new MMO the cause of another MMO declining.

The only threat to ESO, or any other MMO, is itself. And sadly, I would say there are many things to be worried about in ESO's case currently.... it's just simply not "the next insert MMO name killer".

Agreed, ESO is its absolute worst enemy. My guild has stopped running trials due to lack of players.
The reason the players stopped playing wasn't by choice, it was because the could no longer complete challenging content due to half the raid team getting logged out (or sometimes not even able to log in in the first place) on a regular basis in addition to all the lag and skills misfiring.
So many of us want to play the game but can't due to the terrible state of things.

PS: There are some people who fervently insist that ESO runs smoothly and 100% bug free every time you log on... I'm glad for you but please don't just tell us that it's our computers that are responsible.

fizzylu · November 8

@moderatelyfatman
Yep, ongoing performance issues and the lack of sizeable content updates or just questionable ones that don't seem to align with the players are definitely where any worrying should be directed imo.

thorwyn · November 8

Zombocalypse wrote: »

Mainly because I recently watched one of those top 10/15/20 lists that are common in YouTube. What truly worried me is the fact that I was watching something specifically about roleplaying games and one of them is actually an MMO to be released in 2025. And boy, that thing looks stunning.

It made me wonder if these types of MMOs are gonna end up dominating the market soon and their visuals are (undoubtedly) multiple-times better than ESO... Then what's gonna be the future of this game if those guys are just a step away? ESO definitely has a loyal playerbase, great system, great story, a part of a great title, but it's only a matter of a few years before new MMOs end up getting advertised. I'm sure a chunk of the ESO playerbase may end up getting lured away and umm...

Look man, I love this game. But I'm worried.

MMO's have been released left right and middle over the past years and it always turned out to be more or less the same scenario: a HUUUGE hype, thousands of players flooding the servers at release and then, a couple of weeks later, the servers are deserted and people are coming back to the game they used to play before, mainly because the new game is lacking content, depth or long-term motivation.
In my opinion, the only thing that would affect the ESO player base significantly is the release of Elder Scrolls 6, because it would drive all those players away, that are just playing ESO as an extended version of a single player game.

moderatelyfatman · November 8

fizzylu wrote: »

@moderatelyfatman
Yep, ongoing performance issues and the lack of sizeable content updates or just questionable ones that don't seem to align with the players are definitely where any worrying should be directed imo.

A lot of the people tuning out are also newer players who want to get into vet trials and get some completions in their achievements. The lack of new content doesn't bother them because everything is new to them.
These players are the ones that head into other MMOs and never come back.

Horace-Wimp · November 8

fizzylu wrote: »

There's always new MMOs being announced/released and rarely is a new MMO the cause of another MMO declining.

The only threat to ESO, or any other MMO, is itself. And sadly, I would say there are many things to be worried about in ESO's case currently.... it's just simply not "the next insert MMO name killer".

I agree here. More specifically what kills MMOs is it's players. In my 20+ years of playing MMOs the overwhelming majority of people that play CONSUME content like a starving wild animal then after there is nothing "new" to consume they [snip] and complain that there's nothing new to do. That all the content is boring because they've done it all once or twice. When are the Devs going to give us something new? Which then leads to rampant WILD speculation of what is coming next. So, they focus on THAT instead of enjoying what they already have. And then when new content is finally added they [snip] and complain that it's lackluster and wanting because it doesn't meet their unrealistic expectations. It's a vicious cycle that constantly repeats itself.

I say, "Calm down, nerd. Enjoy what you have. Games are meant to be PLAYED, not consumed."

As a new player myself I expect that it would take me three to four years to get through everything ESO offers. And since I am so late to the game (pun intended) I expect that many of the veteran players that find what is new to me to be 'old hat' may very well no longer be here to hold my hand and guide me through that content. That's fine. It is JUST a game.

The only thing I would be concerned about is Bethesda laying off staff. More than 20 game studios have closed this year so far permanently. The #1 reason given is MONEY. No one is buying their product(s) and they cannot keep the lights on. ESO is not immune to this although given it's size I'm sure they can just amputate an appendage and carry on.

Something to keep in mind.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Sarannah · November 8

First of all I have to state: Despite it's issues ESO is still a great game and well worth playing.

That said, I do not think another MMO will take (m)any players away from ESO, but I do fear ESO has become it's own enemy. There are quite a few problems touching quite a bit of the playerbase: Crown gifting, performance issues, PvP state, DPS/survivability gap, bugs, engine limitations(storage limits/furniture limits/etc), lesser content, more and more grinding required, etc.

Practically everyone playing ESO is affected by atleast one or multiple of these things. Any one of these things isn't bad, but when combined they can cause a huge portion of the playerbase to stop handing money to ZOS. And this is what I am scared off, the game basically killing itself.

Really hope that doesn't happen, because ESO is the best!

PS: I have no performance issues except for the rare 999+ ping spike every 4-5 days.

Coo_PnT · November 8

ESO is a very great game. It has captivated me for years.
The competition is not just MMOs at the moment, but all games, movies, dramas, cartoons, etc. Your intellectual curiosity will leap to new heights and you will always be looking for something new and interesting. But I don't know, in the end it will be novels, literature, and poetry. And maybe the time will come when tools will be invented that will allow you to just stay in your own ideal space.

fizzylu · November 8

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

The lack of new content doesn't bother them because everything is new to them.

I personally know this isn't always the case. Most people I know who are into MMOs will heavily research titles and what the game has had brought to them and will possibly have brought to them before considering giving one their time and money. MMOs are a commitment and something that is expected to evolve+grow, and people who play MMOs because they simply like MMOs, definitely aren't always the type to go into them blindly. And I can 100% say that none of the big MMO gamers I know are signing up to play ESO or have already left it. Even for me, if ESO was like it was now when I first started reconsidering getting into the game some years ago.... I wouldn't have ever touched it.

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

I agree here. More specifically what kills MMOs is it's players. In my 20+ years of playing MMOs the overwhelming majority of people that play CONSUME content like a starving wild animal then after there is nothing "new" to consume they [snip] and complain that there's nothing new to do. That all the content is boring because they've done it all once or twice. When are the Devs going to give us something new? Which then leads to rampant WILD speculation of what is coming next. So, they focus on THAT instead of enjoying what they already have. And then when new content is finally added they [snip] and complain that it's lackluster and wanting because it doesn't meet their unrealistic expectations. It's a vicious cycle that constantly repeats itself.

And sadly, I don't know if I agree with this with my experience of 20+ years of playing MMOs.

This game specifically, for a triple A title that just earlier this year was singing self-praise about how much money they've been raking in, has significantly smaller amounts of content brought to it than other triple A title MMOs. I can't seem to find any reasonable excuse for that and Zenimax doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that or give answers.
Then with what they give us, they completely miss the mark. It has nothing to do with "wild speculation", just the fact that Zenimax clearly does not really know or doesn't care to know what it's playerbase actually wants (they even said that the housing tours "feature" was mostly for them). It also doesn't help that ESO is one of the few MMOs that keeps new content/features in the dark during the coarse of almost their entire development and saves the PTS for simple bug/minor fixes. Us players truly get practically zero input on what is brought into this game and how.

I don't commonly see these kind of complaints come up in other MMOs and usually when it is, it's by players who don't understand the concept of replayability and endgame in MMOs (which is funny that this is coming up since ESO also has some of the worst replayability/endgame across the MMO genre too).... or are simply bored, but they're still usually a minority. Even features; I stay active on most of the forums of the MMOs I play regularly and most are usually filled with more positive feedback than negative. Only in ESO do I see an overwhelming amount of people consistently unhappy with the amount of content and/or the new features brought to the game. It's honestly crazy how happy and positive the tone of some other MMO forums are, and I definitely go to them when I need a break from ESO's.

[edited to remove quote]

Elsonso · November 8

Studios and publishers seem to be pushing for Live Service games (MMO) across their portfolios. They all want to be the one that has the golden goose that brings in money year after year from the in--game monetization strategy.

The problem with Live Service games, as has been noted, is that it requires player commitment, and players seem reluctant to do that across a pile of games. Too much work. Potentially, too much cost. Give them a reason to stick with an MMO, and they will not spend as much time or money with some other MMO. There is not an endless supply of live service players, like with a single player game that people can just pick up and play for a couple weeks, or buy it and not even get around to playing it for a year.

I was looking at the 2025 MMORPG list and nothing jumps out at me as a "must have". At least, for me. I see some of games that are built around a 'gimmick', and I don't expect those to last longer than the gimmick is interesting.

freespirit · November 8

Op you spent weeks asking questions about ESO, whilst you were downloading it, then when you started playing, more questions......

Now a week or so later you are worried the game is dying!!.

If you do any type of "is ESO dying" internet search you will find results from as early as 2014/2015 claiming this to be so, yet here we still are!

Honestly play the game, enjoy what you choose to do and don't spend too much time reading "the sky is falling" posts! 💕

BlueRaven · November 8

The developers here in general, and the combat developers more directly, have done a pretty good job of lowering my enthusiasm for eso for awhile now. It started with making bosmers not stealthy, and it seems like each patch since then just darkens my mood for eso.

My issues with the game continue to mount, but I am staying until something new catches my eye.

[snip]
[edited for advertising and goodbye/quitting post]

LalMirchi · November 8

@Zombocalypse "I'm honestly worried about the future of this game... "

I'm not, why are you worrying about a game you recently downloaded and posted numerous comments asking for help about basics?

MasterSpatula · November 8

ESO is definitely fading. It's becoming increasingly difficult to get a group together for anything, so few players are on at any given time these days. But ESO's problems are squarely the the fault of ESO and ZOS and not of any other game.

TDVM · November 8

ZOS don't create worthwhile content for eso, trade guilds are already closing due to lack of players, and people are leaving eso due to lack of content. But there's always a 2x drop event or 2x experience for that = a path to the future that doesn't exist. People are leaving and that's a fact, the “well I see players in town” argument doesn't work.

LalMirchi · November 8

TDVM wrote: »

ZOS don't create worthwhile content for eso, trade guilds are already closing due to lack of players, and people are leaving eso due to lack of content. But there's always a 2x drop event or 2x experience for that = a path to the future that doesn't exist. People are leaving and that's a fact, the “well I see players in town” argument doesn't work.

So once again, deja vu, game's dying! Let's all abandon ship? I really do not agree, our perceptions are based on our experiences, in-game mine have been positive but perceptions can and very often vary.

Danikat · November 8

It's like 2014 all over again! Back then it seemed like every month there was a new MMO coming out (and one due the month after that, and another which had just been announced) and every single one had people declaring it The Next Big Thing which would change the genre forever, starting by killing off all the existing games.

ESO had it's turn as that Next Big Thing as well, with people on other game's forums making topics exactly like this one asking how that game would survive when everyone started ESO and what that game would copy from ESO to stay current.

The reality is almost always that the people who jump on every new thing go for that one too, rave about it until it stops being new and then move on, meanwhile the game either finds it's audience and becomes another of several MMOs or doesn't find it's audience and fails. Sometimes it takes a while to settle (ESO is a prime example) but eventually it does.

If in doubt have a look at this list of MMORPGs (bearing in mind there's other genres too): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_games There's over 100 marked as active. How much difference is one more going to make?

Even when World of Warcraft launched and, for a while, actually did dominate the market (which was much, much smaller back then), it didn't kill off any of the existing games. Even Runescape and Everquest which are the main two that inspired it are still going, as are others like Ultima Online that were different enough to be less affected.

Elsonso wrote: »

Studios and publishers seem to be pushing for Live Service games (MMO) across their portfolios. They all want to be the one that has the golden goose that brings in money year after year from the in--game monetization strategy.

The problem with Live Service games, as has been noted, is that it requires player commitment, and players seem reluctant to do that across a pile of games. Too much work. Potentially, too much cost. Give them a reason to stick with an MMO, and they will not spend as much time or money with some other MMO. There is not an endless supply of live service players, like with a single player game that people can just pick up and play for a couple weeks, or buy it and not even get around to playing it for a year.

I'm starting to see signs that's changing, thankfully. For example apparently Dragonage Veilguard was originally going to be a live service game but the company changed their minds before it was released because reactions to both live service games and traditional single-player games like the Jedi series and Baldur's Gate 3 convinced them it would actually do better without it.

There obviously is a market for live service games, but I think it's a lot smaller than many companies wanted to believe when they were jumping on it as the Next Big Thing and telling us all how excited we are for them. Which does not surprise me at all. In theory I'm a prime target for them as someone who plays (and buys DLC for) two MMOs, in reality it means as soon as I hear an interesting new game is an MMO or online multiplayer live-service game I immediately conclude I don't have time to deal with it.

XSTRONG · November 8

I think Eso biggest threat are games from Bethesda like Elder Scrolls 6, When Zos release their new AAA mmo they might as well kill Eso and they probably aware of that already.

New games from other companys coming out on the market are drawing people away but they are not ending Eso, when Eso ends Zos wants it to end lol

Taril · November 8

Danikat wrote: »

There obviously is a market for live service games, but I think it's a lot smaller than many companies wanted to believe when they were jumping on it as the Next Big Thing and telling us all how excited we are for them.

I think much of it comes down to implementation.

Like, I'm a prime target audience for a Live Service game. I very much like subscription MMO's because that monthly cost often goes into development of more content, so I continually have more stuff to do in a game I enjoy.

However, most "Live Service" games are kind of missing the point. They're all about pushing out a barebones game and then slapping as much cosmetic MTX as they can into it and then using the money from MTX sales to buy 15 yachts for each executive and maybe a couple of bucks are spent on... More cosmetic MTX...

There's certainly a market for content driven Live Services. One only needs to look at games like BG3 and CP2077 where people are begging for DLC so they can continue playing a game they enjoy. It's just that executives just want the next Fortnite where it's all about churning out quick and easy MTX to sell for massive profits.

AzuraFan · November 8

MasterSpatula wrote: »

ESO is definitely fading. It's becoming increasingly difficult to get a group together for anything, so few players are on at any given time these days. But ESO's problems are squarely the the fault of ESO and ZOS and not of any other game.

That's not my experience on PC/NA, but I don't do vet content or trials, so maybe that's where the group problems are. In terms of running normal dungeons and other group activities (arenas, for example), I'm not having any problems. I'm running dungeons every day with pugs and/or guildies. I pug every day outside of prime time with no problem whatsoever. That includes pugging the DLC dungeons, which I'm mainly doing now for the pledges.

I belong to three active PvE guilds. All regularly run vet content, including trials. I don't participate because I don't feel I do enough DPS on my non-meta main build, but if I wanted to do that content, I'd be able to with no problem (on an alt).

As for [insert new/shiny/upcoming MMO name here] killing ESO, I agree with those who've said only ZOS can kill ESO. I've been reading the forums now for maybe 3-4 years, and at least once or twice a year there are threads proclaiming that [insert new/shiny/upcoming MMO name here] is going to mean the end of ESO. So far, that hasn't happened, so...

The only game that might cause a seismic shift in pop numbers is TES6, and that's still at least a few years away.

Cooperharley · November 8

I’d be more worried about the release of ES6 for the population of ESO than another MMO.

But as others have said, another MMO isn’t nearly as dangerous as the choices that the devs continue to make in development of their own game. Being completely out of touch communication wise with your player base for years and implementing none of the community’s suggestion update after update with extremely sparse updates altogether is a bigger problem

Artim_X · November 8

I play this game because I love the world of The Elder Scrolls and because it does not play like a typical MMO.

There are peeps out there that still play Old School Runescape, so I hope this game never gets sunsetted.

ZOS could definitely work on listening to the playerbase, but for the most part the game still peaks my interest.

XSTRONG · November 8

Cooperharley wrote: »

I’d be more worried about the release of ES6 for the population of ESO than another MMO.

But as others have said, another MMO isn’t nearly as dangerous as the choices that the devs continue to make in development of their own game. Being completely out of touch communication wise with your player base for years and implementing none of the community’s suggestion update after update with extremely sparse updates altogether is a bigger problem

Funny thing is I only see people in this forum have a problem with Eso updates, I never see it in game or on some eso Facebook groups im in. This tiny population of people that thinks stuff sucks might think this forum contains all of Eso player base?

Eso have alot to work on, but their player base isnt the people on the forum and I respect them for recognize that, if even 100 people say something on forum it still might not be what most of Eso players want,need or have been asking for.

But one thing Zos can be better at is communicating

Danikat · November 8

Taril wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

There obviously is a market for live service games, but I think it's a lot smaller than many companies wanted to believe when they were jumping on it as the Next Big Thing and telling us all how excited we are for them.

I think much of it comes down to implementation.

Like, I'm a prime target audience for a Live Service game. I very much like subscription MMO's because that monthly cost often goes into development of more content, so I continually have more stuff to do in a game I enjoy.

However, most "Live Service" games are kind of missing the point. They're all about pushing out a barebones game and then slapping as much cosmetic MTX as they can into it and then using the money from MTX sales to buy 15 yachts for each executive and maybe a couple of bucks are spent on... More cosmetic MTX...

There's certainly a market for content driven Live Services. One only needs to look at games like BG3 and CP2077 where people are begging for DLC so they can continue playing a game they enjoy. It's just that executives just want the next Fortnite where it's all about churning out quick and easy MTX to sell for massive profits.

That too.

MMOs had the same problem shortly after WoW got big - a lot of companies thought it would be easy money so they made a quick, bare bones WoW-clone with a lot of grind and a ton of cash shop items (often pay to win) and some flashy marketing and when it didn't instantly make huge profits they shut it down and moved on to the next thing (which was often another iteration of the exact same idea). Enough of them failed that the idea kind of died down for a while, but yeah, now it's started up again with "live service" games.

When I first heard about it (via a Facebook advert of all things) I was worried ESO might be the same thing, that someone had paid Bethesda for permission to reskin their generic game as a TES game to net an instant audience. I knew that wouldn't be the case when I found out it was being done by Bethesda's parent company, but it was a common concern at the time.

Elsonso · November 8

XSTRONG wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

I’d be more worried about the release of ES6 for the population of ESO than another MMO.

But as others have said, another MMO isn’t nearly as dangerous as the choices that the devs continue to make in development of their own game. Being completely out of touch communication wise with your player base for years and implementing none of the community’s suggestion update after update with extremely sparse updates altogether is a bigger problem

Funny thing is I only see people in this forum have a problem with Eso updates, I never see it in game or on some eso Facebook groups im in. This tiny population of people that thinks stuff sucks might think this forum contains all of Eso player base?

Eso have alot to work on, but their player base isnt the people on the forum and I respect them for recognize that, if even 100 people say something on forum it still might not be what most of Eso players want,need or have been asking for.

But one thing Zos can be better at is communicating

Maybe the average players just quietly wanders off? I didn't bother to tell T&L that I left, for example. They never noticed and never asked.

Yeah, the forum is not everyone, but when we are disgruntled, we let ZOS know.

XSTRONG · November 8

Elsonso wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

I’d be more worried about the release of ES6 for the population of ESO than another MMO.

But as others have said, another MMO isn’t nearly as dangerous as the choices that the devs continue to make in development of their own game. Being completely out of touch communication wise with your player base for years and implementing none of the community’s suggestion update after update with extremely sparse updates altogether is a bigger problem

Funny thing is I only see people in this forum have a problem with Eso updates, I never see it in game or on some eso Facebook groups im in. This tiny population of people that thinks stuff sucks might think this forum contains all of Eso player base?

Eso have alot to work on, but their player base isnt the people on the forum and I respect them for recognize that, if even 100 people say something on forum it still might not be what most of Eso players want,need or have been asking for.

But one thing Zos can be better at is communicating

Maybe the average players just quietly wanders off? I didn't bother to tell T&L that I left, for example. They never noticed and never asked.

Yeah, the forum is not everyone, but when we are disgruntled, we let ZOS know.

We all will be Calm when Eso dies, thats about when they release their new mmo

twev · November 8

LalMirchi wrote: »

@Zombocalypse "I'm honestly worried about the future of this game... "

I'm not, why are you worrying about a game you recently downloaded and posted numerous comments asking for help about basics?

New players are the lifeblood of many games, especially the ones who find good reasons to stay, (and spend money supporting the game).

It's not uncommon for new(er) players to want to have some surety of game quality and stability before they start 'investing' much time into a game new to them when they could just as easily have spent the time/resources playing a game that meets the qualifications better, which would put them further into a game that they enjoyed more.

It's not hard to see that spending (random number for example) 100 hours in a game new to a player could be more appealing and satisfying when they see that the game devs are responsive to issues than it would be playing (another random number example) 25 hours in each of several games only to discover that many of them have unaddressed issues and unresponsive customer service, information that could be gotten from other players by asking questions, and then finally finding a satisfying game they could have been playing sooner.

Disappointment breeds contempt, and for a lot of people - the disappointment bar can get lower each time they waste time in another game that ignores users, and passes the buck on issues that shouldn't exist, or should have been fixed, sometimes long, long ago.

There are a lot of games that have failed the satisfaction test for a number of reasons, and there will always be more.
Newer players not wanting to waste time in a game that has issues they could have been informed about sooner, without having to discover more of the problems (that everyone else already knows about) piecemeal until they get fed up and move on isn't really unjustified.

ESO should be a realm people want to keep playing for the satisfaction of playing, rather than trying to justify sunk costs later while playing.

Desiato · November 8

Just because it's 10 years old doesn't necessarily mean ESO is in decline, but it would be completely reasonable if it was after so many years.

I don't care about playing a popular game. My main worry is how financially successful the game has been because I worry that the backend wasn't developed efficiently in favor of rapid growth. I think this is a reason we've seen them try to find efficiencies through the recent nerfs to the trading and mail systems.

Its databases appear massive because of the staggering number of items in the game and the codebase seems complex and convoluted from 10 years of feature creep -- including basically redesigning the game after launch.

So this might not be an MMO that can exist for very long on "life support" once it truly goes into a player activity decline.

ArchMikem · November 8

Take Black Desert. That game also looked stunning. Have I heard anything about it in the last year? Pfft, nope. I actually forgot it existed until you mentioned MMOs with good visuals. That's about the only thing I ever noticed about BDO. I still kept playing ESO anyway.