Would you like to see an end to Invulnerable phases on Bosses?

twev

Yes

Dragonnord wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why can't it be something like the player has to kite the Boss to a certain object on the ground to damage them, and this object glows when it's active, and there are several of these scattered around the room and each does a different type of damage to the Boss and the player can only damage them when they are near one of these, and they are only active for so long then they stop glowing and another becomes active?

What you describe is am invulnerable situation until players do something.

And I can guarantee you that it can take even longer than regular invulnerable phases because 90% of players in this game don't have a clue about what they're doing, don't care about guidance, don't pay attention to their surroundings, to what is happening, to chat, to whispers, to anything.

I don't want to depend on distracted and disinterested random guys to complete Overland content (ie: bosses, Incursions, etc.).
 

Except for the 'No' vote, I agree with your statement.

Ishtarknows

Yes

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The most entertaining boss fights are the ones which require the players to do something other than parse on them. Invulnerability phases are used to push the player to do some mechanics, hear some dialogue, or anything else that would make the boss fight more engaging and involved.

What's wrong with doing mechanics while still killing the boss? That would make the fight even more engaging and involved.

There's no needs for the boss to be invulnerable.

xylena_lazarow

Yes

Invuln phases where the player can immediately perform an action to end it is fine.

Invuln phases where you can only wait, this is not gameplay, this is boring bad design.

manukartofanu

No

Probably, such phases aren’t too much of an issue if there are certain mechanics involved. On the other hand, why even have invulnerability during these mechanics? The presence of mechanics will still make the player complete them or skip them if they’re poorly designed. All these bosses in West Weald, where the boss goes off for a tea break, making you switch from parsing the boss to parsing adds instead, are just terribly tedious and pointless.

And yes, I accidentally answered No.

KromedeTheCorrupt

Yes

After gold road yeah they can straight up remove it. Gold road single handled made me vote yes on this poll. This zone is going to be the most hated once newer chapters release and 90% of the player base can’t finish the zone due to overly done power creep mechanics for overland content.

Same thing with harrow storms in the skyrim DLC they made overland content that is brutal for new players or even just players that aren’t that great at pve.

It’s funny how base game and tons of older DLC content can be completed solo with ease but the devs are listening.

For example us vet players we can solo world events like in High isle/Galen geysers
Gold road invulnerable stages
Skyrim harrow storms
Elsywere dragons ect

But new players are out right struggling with those world events so the content has gotten harder over the years but us older players are so in tuned with how our class, skills and how combat works it all seems easy to us.

anadandy

Yes

I voted Yes but really I'd just like to see them reduced. One phase, fine - multiple phases, especially with healing, is just tedious.

AzuraFan

Yes

SilverBride wrote: »

...the Boss can be attacked for a few seconds before once again it's invulnerable and it starts over again, and this repeats a few more times until the Boss is finally defeated.

Yeah, the invulnerability phases would be less annoying if we had a chance to attack the boss for more than 3 seconds before it goes immune again. I've done some fights where the boss drops his immunity and then it literally goes up again within a few seconds (the final boss in oblivion portals is a prime example of this). When the total length of the immunity phases is way longer than the opportunity to attack the guy, something's broken.

And so what if the group burns down the boss quickly and so it doesn't get another chance to be immune? Why do some players think we should be punished for doing high DPS? What's the point of making a fight last 5x longer than it should if it's not fun? What mythical gods are we trying to please by making sure a boss fight lasts at least 45.382 seconds?

(The same goes for other mechanics, where the boss hardly finishes a phase and then pretty much goes right into it again.)

BXR_Lonestar

No

SilverBride wrote: »

I feel that Invulnerable phases add nothing of interest to Boss fights and only serve to artificially prolong the fight.

I hate them too, but if they get rid of invulnerable phases, then I think boss encounters would actually be made worse. Without an invulnerability phase, they have no other way to force you to not focus the boss and force you to do mechanics. This would allow players to treat the whole fight as a DPS race, meaning mechanics become meaningless. I don't know about you, but if every fight is just a parse dummy that hits back, the game on the PVE side of things is going to get very boring very quickly.

Some other things we will see more of if they DO remove health gating (boss invulnerability phases):

1. bosses that rapidly regen/heal themselves;
2. More one-hit kill mechanics (a dev favorite to artificially increase difficulty on bosses)
3. massive waves of minions that will overwhelm you if you DON'T focus them (alternatively, waves of uber minions that are hard to kill in their own right)
4. Teleporting bosses
5. bosses with massive amounts of health
6. Or some combination of the above.

I don't know about you, but I think I'd rather wait for the boss to stop being damage immune than face one or more of these things in a fight.

Ingenon

No

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I hate them too, but if they get rid of invulnerable phases, then I think boss encounters would actually be made worse. Without an invulnerability phase, they have no other way to force you to not focus the boss and force you to do mechanics. This would allow players to treat the whole fight as a DPS race, meaning mechanics become meaningless. I don't know about you, but if every fight is just a parse dummy that hits back, the game on the PVE side of things is going to get very boring very quickly.

Some other things we will see more of if they DO remove health gating (boss invulnerability phases):

1. bosses that rapidly regen/heal themselves;
2. More one-hit kill mechanics (a dev favorite to artificially increase difficulty on bosses)
3. massive waves of minions that will overwhelm you if you DON'T focus them (alternatively, waves of uber minions that are hard to kill in their own right)
4. Teleporting bosses
5. bosses with massive amounts of health
6. Or some combination of the above.

I don't know about you, but I think I'd rather wait for the boss to stop being damage immune than face one or more of these things in a fight.

I agree, well said!

ZOS could remove them, and then players would post that "ESO overland is too easy, I can burn everything down in a few seconds as a naked level 3 using my fists". (Sarcasm, but I have seen posts like that).

And ZOS has already tried in game all of the other options listed above. So given a choice between what I have seen so far in ESO, I prefer the boss invulnerability phases. They are not great, but I'm not seeing a better alternative.

Warhawke_80

No

No the game is already mind-numbingly easy with zero consequence....and all this would do would cater to those who play the game like a Busy-work check list.

colossalvoids

Yes

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

No the game is already mind-numbingly easy with zero consequence....and all this would do would cater to those who play the game like a Busy-work check list.

I do play the game as a checklist after the completion of a zone, because of the achievements structure and how bad it is (it's a checklist and mindless grind), it's having nothing in common with actually achieving anything but a progress tracker of sorts. Though removing immune phases won't change a thing here, not adding more of it would.
What would make the game better for me personally is designing appropriate challenge and encounters, making achievements actually achievements at least partially instead of a checklist and actual good writing would do wonders. Until then it's just an annoyance bringing nothing to the table in most recent cases. It can be used as a artistic tool designing encounters but right not it's overdone and serves no purpose with a lot of cases.

frogthroat

Can't say yes or no.

If it is soemthing in players' control, as in do something and then the boss is no longer invulnerable, then no. Keep the mechanic. Different mechanics make this game fun.

If it is something that is time-based or something else not in players' control, then yes, get rid of that. As soon as possible.

Like the hag boss in Bloodroot Forge. If you are outside of the grove the boss won't take any damage from you. You kill the ads that spawn and then... wait. And wait. And wait. Until the boss decides the grove mechanic is finished. The grove should end the moment the last ad dies.

Elsonso

Yes

Ingenon wrote: »

!

ZOS could remove them, and then players would post that "ESO overland is too easy, I can burn everything down in a few seconds as a naked level 3 using my fists". (Sarcasm, but I have seen posts like that).

And ZOS has already tried in game all of the other options listed above. So given a choice between what I have seen so far in ESO, I prefer the boss invulnerability phases. They are not great, but I'm not seeing a better alternative.

Instead... "ESO is too easy. I can burn the new boss down in 33 seconds. I could do it faster, but the boss is invulnerable for 30 seconds"

SilverBride

Yes

KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »

After gold road yeah they can straight up remove it. Gold road single handled made me vote yes on this poll. This zone is going to be the most hated once newer chapters release and 90% of the player base can’t finish the zone due to overly done power creep mechanics for overland content.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

I completed the zone on all of my characters because that is what I do, but I haven't gone back since. The tedious Zone Story Bosses and World Bosses and Incursions and Public Dungeon group event Bosses are just not fun and the increased difficulty is hindering some players from even being able to complete the story.

I buy every chapter as they come along but I have already decided that if the next one is going to just be more of the same I'm going to pass.

Erickson9610

No

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The most entertaining boss fights are the ones which require the players to do something other than parse on them. Invulnerability phases are used to push the player to do some mechanics, hear some dialogue, or anything else that would make the boss fight more engaging and involved.

What's wrong with doing mechanics while still killing the boss? That would make the fight even more engaging and involved.

There's no needs for the boss to be invulnerable.

There are a few bosses that I can think of who, instead of becoming completely invulnerable, gain a massive damage shield that goes away after their dialogue has completed or the mechanic has been done. It's usually impossible to actually destroy the damage shield before it goes away on its own.

Would the illusion of dealing damage be better than outright invulnerability? I don't think it would be, because players would still try to attack the boss rather than wait and do the mechanics, because they still see damage numbers.

XSTRONG

Yes

Yes its just annoying

flizomica

Yes

Invulnerability phases where you do something fun (last boss of Stone Garden comes to mind) are great. They should be meaningful and showcase an interesting mechanic that's appropriate for the fight.

It seems like the design philosophy has swung the other way, where everything now has an immunity phase by default, and mechanics are added to justify it. This isn't fun at all and makes the fights feel extremely repetitive and slow.

Toanis

Yes

It's fine when it's just a matter of paying attention, I just finished Orsinium, and Kurog's mum shielding him, even yelling out she's going to do so, is a fine use of invulnerability.

You should overthink your combat design, when you not only need to add a McGuffin to justify the way the invulnerability phase is solved, but also have to showcase the mechanic multiple times, so players learn to do it before the big fight.

endorphinsplox

Yes

Its lazy artificial lengthening largely implemented to satisfy whiny players who don't like that bosses aren't as difficult as their lore would suggest they'd be, but also don't want the game to become more complicated to make things actually difficult.

Castagere

Yes

100% but in ZOS's eyes they think they are being clever with it. Boss fights in ESO are just becoming prolonged annoyances to deal with.

Caligamy_ESO

Yes

Not just the bosses..

Get rid of the aggravating invulnerability of the wraiths and ghosts that make you sit there and watch their SLOOOOOW moseying across the battlefield so you can obliterate them at the other end of it.

Ishtarknows

Yes

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Some other things we will see more of if they DO remove health gating (boss invulnerability phases):

1. bosses that rapidly regen/heal themselves;
2. More one-hit kill mechanics (a dev favorite to artificially increase difficulty on bosses)
3. massive waves of minions that will overwhelm you if you DON'T focus them (alternatively, waves of uber minions that are hard to kill in their own right)
4. Teleporting bosses
5. bosses with massive amounts of health
6. Or some combination of the above.

I don't know about you, but I think I'd rather wait for the boss to stop being damage immune than face one or more of these things in a fight.

I'd be happier with any of those more than invulnerability phases. Especially those than penalise high DPS, like the boss with the Laser beams in Frostvault which can give back to back invulnerable phases with no chance to hit him in between.
Choosing between focussing the boss or clearing more adds is a much better option

Necrotech_Master

i think im of the opinion that invuln phases can be "OK" as long as they are tastefully done and are either player controlled (complete some mechanic to end it quicker), or just dont last a really long amount of time (allow the boss to do a short monologue or whatnot is fine, or if they need to animate triggering some other mechanic, then fine make them invuln for the 15-30 secs for that)

any invuln phase which lasts more than 30 seconds, or has no way for a player to end it early is what makes a fight tedious

examples of "bad" invuln phases: final boss in the atoll of immolation, most of the WB in west weald, frostvault centurion boss

mirrormoor incursion invuln phases are OK, at least on the main fight, but needing to do the 3 valkynaz fights before the center fight is a little too much i think (this is more of a problem with the overall encounter than invuln specifically)

Rkindaleft

Yes

Immunity phases are good when there are actual mechanics to play around and when the fights are designed around them, like the bosses in Sunspire or the 2nd boss in Lucent Citadel going invulnerable if mirrors aren’t flipped to the corresponding colour.

Immunity phases are bad when the only purpose of them is to artificially lengthen the duration of a fight for the sole purpose of making the fight longer, like in the West Weald WBs and Mirrormoor incursions, those don’t have interesting mechanics, 95% of the time it’s just extended in order for you to do pointless waves of trash mobs which is not engaging at all and just makes people dislike them.

TheMajority

No

I think that the invunerable phase is a important part of the boss personality and who they are and can not be removed

in the future I would like to see Instant Kill mechanic instead so that you get Instant Kill if you don't do the mechanic right everybody wipe if they don't do adds

this is how you keep the bosses personality and identity. you can not take away who they are at heart to make it easier

boss should intimidate and be hard

Runefang

No

disky wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

For bosses that don't have any mechanics, yeah, invulnerable phases aren't worth it. For bosses that have mechanics that must be done, keep them

Forgive my ignorance, but which bosses have immunity phases with no mechanics attached? How often do we just stand around and wait for them to finish whatever they're doing without doing something ourselves?

I’m in the camp of keeping the invulnerable phases but there are times where the boss goes invulnerable but all that happens is some really weak adds spawn in waves before the boss comes back. Those are the worst invulnerability phases for sure.

Dungeon and trial bosses often have then phases and they’re not bad. It’s the world bosses where they do suck, particularly where the mechanics during the phases are limp.

Jaraal

Yes

If you're thinking about all the other actually fun things you could be doing while you're waiting to be able to damage the boss again, then the answer is pretty clear.

The_Isatope8

No

Invulnerable phases are fine so long as they are implemented properly.

The Dread Cellars' final boss, Magma Incarnate, is an example of correct implementation where it is something that needs to be removed by doing the boss's mechanics. Using invulnerability in this way creates a sense of urgency for the players instead of just artificially prolonging a fight.

The Vault Protector boss in Frostvault (the beam room) is an example of how not to implement invulnerability. Instead of being an actual mechanic, like Magma Incarnate, it's just an annoying gimmick that adds nothing to the fight. The fight takes way longer than it should if your group has good dps because the boss has to do the phase a set number of times so you end up with back to back invulnerability phases.

Invulnerability should only be on bosses if there is a way to remove their invulnerability by actually doing mechanics instead of just waiting it out. I have said it before, ESO has an action based combat system so taking the players action out of the combat isn't t great for many reasons. It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's annoying and can even be aggravating (I hate the damn laser room in a way I can't describe).

I hope that some of the bosses in the game with pointless invulnerability phases will be reworked to remove the mechanic, but I also hope that bosses with good invulnerability phases are kept as they are.

Rufusstan

Yes

I was on the fence about this until the Lord Hollowjack fight. Having an enemy who goes invulnerable, without any (as yet) known way to stop or reduce it, and all you can do is hide and hope he doesn't spot you and one-shot you. If as some others have said this is a good implementation, I'd hate to see any of the really bad ones.

no1care

Yes

I personally find the invulnerability phases incredibly frustrating and boring, as if I'm being forced to waste time especially when they come without any kind of challenging mechanics. The story "bosses" have a very similar feeling to me, even without the "invulnerability" stages, with being experienced in the game, they just die super fast and are never a threat at all, even if I have no gear / CP on. I am often left just waiting for them to keep talking after they are already 'dead' which makes it very difficult to feel immersed in the world at all.

With that said, I believe something like a "veteran" overland without invulnerable phases, but which has more challenging mechs, and (more) 1 shots would be a lot more entertaining to people who aren't brand new to the game, honestly. The overland is just so dead with the way it is now for many people (my friends) who are experienced in combat, regardless of CP level or gear (because I have a low CP alt account, and it's the same experience)