Seperate solo and group queues for 4v4 BGs

Jierdanit

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

According to this we will be able to queue for the new BGs with groups of up to 4 people.
That makes 4v4 basically unplayable unless you got an organized 4 man pre-made (at least in higher MMR).

Imo we need a seperate queue for solo and group at least for the competitive 4v4 or solo players are just not going to play it at all.

Bashev

Jierdanit wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

According to this we will be able to queue for the new BGs with groups of up to 4 people.
That makes 4v4 basically unplayable unless you got an organized 4 man pre-made (at least in higher MMR).

Imo we need a seperate queue for solo and group at least for the competitive 4v4 or solo players are just not going to play it at all.

I think this is more important for 8vs8 as it is the casual mode. In 4vs4 it will be nice to be separated but not as really needed.

Syiccal

It's because bg has good servers, no lagg and works, cyro is broke they don't know how to fix so id being phased out and replaced with more bg content offering small scale battles which is still PVP however you look at it.

Jierdanit

Bashev wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

According to this we will be able to queue for the new BGs with groups of up to 4 people.
That makes 4v4 basically unplayable unless you got an organized 4 man pre-made (at least in higher MMR).

Imo we need a seperate queue for solo and group at least for the competitive 4v4 or solo players are just not going to play it at all.

I think this is more important for 8vs8 as it is the casual mode. In 4vs4 it will be nice to be separated but not as really needed.

I think it's much more important to have seperate queues for competitive, because there is absolutely nothing competitive about a pre-made stomping 4 solo players.
No matter if the MMR is the same.

I do agree with you on the casual though, Imo the biggest group size for the 8v8 should be duos.

Bashev

Jierdanit wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

According to this we will be able to queue for the new BGs with groups of up to 4 people.
That makes 4v4 basically unplayable unless you got an organized 4 man pre-made (at least in higher MMR).

Imo we need a seperate queue for solo and group at least for the competitive 4v4 or solo players are just not going to play it at all.

I think this is more important for 8vs8 as it is the casual mode. In 4vs4 it will be nice to be separated but not as really needed.

I think it's much more important to have seperate queues for competitive, because there is absolutely nothing competitive about a pre-made stomping 4 solo players.
No matter if the MMR is the same.

I do agree with you on the casual though, Imo the biggest group size for the 8v8 should be duos.

I said that will be nice to have but at least if I want to compete then maybe i can find a group, right. While if I want something casual then noone will want to be demolished.

SkaraMinoc

There's not enough premade groups to support two queues. It'll work like this.

1. Best groups
2. Top solo players and Mid groups
3. Mid solo players and Bottom groups
4. Bottom solo players

If you are a veteran solo player then you'll still rank fairly high. If you are an average or new player, then don't expect to outplay teams of PvP veterans running fully comped group sets and skills with voice comms.

Here's a guess on ranks over time.

Rank 1-12 will be the best premade groups
Rank 12-40 will be a mix of top solo players and mid groups
Rank 40+ will be a mix of everyone else

Keep in mind that the groups you play against should be at or near your MMR. So 4v4 should be playable most of the time.

SkaraMinoc

Jierdanit wrote: »

I think it's much more important to have seperate queues for competitive, because there is absolutely nothing competitive about a pre-made stomping 4 solo players.
No matter if the MMR is the same..

This only happens if a premade is ranking up for the first time and should be short-lived as they pass you up

Jierdanit

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

There's not enough premade groups to support two queues. It'll work like this.

1. Best groups
2. Top solo players and Mid groups
3. Mid solo players and Bottom groups
4. Bottom solo players

If you are a veteran solo player then you'll still rank fairly high. If you are an average or new player, then don't expect to outplay teams of PvP veterans running fully comped group sets and skills with voice comms.

Here's a guess on ranks over time.

Rank 1-12 will be the best premade groups
Rank 12-40 will be a mix of top solo players and mid groups
Rank 40+ will be a mix of everyone else

Keep in mind that the groups you play against should be at or near your MMR. So 4v4 should be playable most of the time.

That still means that you have basically no chance to actually get to the top of the leaderboards if you are playing solo.

Which is a pretty bad design imo.

SkaraMinoc

Jierdanit wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

There's not enough premade groups to support two queues. It'll work like this.

1. Best groups
2. Top solo players and Mid groups
3. Mid solo players and Bottom groups
4. Bottom solo players

If you are a veteran solo player then you'll still rank fairly high. If you are an average or new player, then don't expect to outplay teams of PvP veterans running fully comped group sets and skills with voice comms.

Here's a guess on ranks over time.

Rank 1-12 will be the best premade groups
Rank 12-40 will be a mix of top solo players and mid groups
Rank 40+ will be a mix of everyone else

Keep in mind that the groups you play against should be at or near your MMR. So 4v4 should be playable most of the time.

That still means that you have basically no chance to actually get to the top of the leaderboards if you are playing solo.

Which is a pretty bad design imo.

We don't really know how the leaderboard scoring works. So it's possible that by playing enough games and securing enough wins, you can rank higher than the best comped premade who plays less.

Jierdanit

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

There's not enough premade groups to support two queues. It'll work like this.

1. Best groups
2. Top solo players and Mid groups
3. Mid solo players and Bottom groups
4. Bottom solo players

If you are a veteran solo player then you'll still rank fairly high. If you are an average or new player, then don't expect to outplay teams of PvP veterans running fully comped group sets and skills with voice comms.

Here's a guess on ranks over time.

Rank 1-12 will be the best premade groups
Rank 12-40 will be a mix of top solo players and mid groups
Rank 40+ will be a mix of everyone else

Keep in mind that the groups you play against should be at or near your MMR. So 4v4 should be playable most of the time.

That still means that you have basically no chance to actually get to the top of the leaderboards if you are playing solo.

Which is a pretty bad design imo.

We don't really know how the leaderboard scoring works. So it's possible that by playing enough games and securing enough wins, you can rank higher than the best comped premade who plays less.

That might be possible, but it would be another bad choice.

You should gain or lose MMR depending on how you perform in BGs, not depending on how much you play.
That is basically how "MMR" works atm and it's horrible.

Aurielle

Bashev wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

According to this we will be able to queue for the new BGs with groups of up to 4 people.
That makes 4v4 basically unplayable unless you got an organized 4 man pre-made (at least in higher MMR).

Imo we need a seperate queue for solo and group at least for the competitive 4v4 or solo players are just not going to play it at all.

I think this is more important for 8vs8 as it is the casual mode. In 4vs4 it will be nice to be separated but not as really needed.

Fully agreed that the casual 8v8 mode should be solo only, or at least separate solo/group queues. A coordinated four person group in comms with a coordinated build can easily farm eight randoms over and over again, especially when there's no MMR. We see this in Cyrodiil every day. Not forcing a solo only queue for 8v8 will destroy the entire purpose of that being a casual mode, as the same players who deliberately group together to target less experienced and/or ungrouped/uncoordinated players in Cyrodiil will do so in BGs as well.

I'm having really bad memories of the broken pre-made pet-stacking WW groups abusing pet LOS and the Torug's bug in BGs several years ago...

https://youtu.be/LG-cjTYaMH0

Does ZOS want this again? Because allowing pre-mades to queue into a casual mode without MMR means you get this again. Players on the other team will just leave group or sit in stealth near spawn and not even play when there's a coordinated group on the other team farming them.

In saying that, though, I do also think that the 4v4 mode should have separate group and solo queues as well. If a coordinated four person group can farm uncoordinated eight person groups with ease, they will absolutely obliterate uncoordinated four person groups. When the group's MMR increases, they'll just swap to other lower MMR characters and repeat for the lulz while the original group's MMR degrades.