Disadvantages for werewolf and vampire too little

Hadan_of_Rift

Already seeing vampires and werewolves in PvP and the huge skill line advantages, especially the passive abilities compared to poison vulnerability werewolf and fire vulnerability vampire are too weak, especially werewolf since there are very few poison attacks.

I see this turning into vamp vs werewolf instead of ESO. It reminds me of the unlocking of Jedi in Star Wars Galaxies were almost everyone was playing one. Pretty disappointed on how this is turning out so early in the life of this game.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

what you fail to realise is just how well people who caped their fighters guild skill will destroy them.

The dawnguard do exist in this game... it just happen it took a defrent name. If anything i think vampire and werewolf could be even stronguer then this and would STILL be legit. We creature of the night have a serious reason to be affraid of the silver bolts...

Lazerus

exactly. IF the warrior guild skills affect those players, its a serious disadvantage for the creatures of the night. If not it needs to be added.

and dont argue with "no one needs those skills"

Darkness

The Fighter's Guild passive "Skilled Tracker" makes all of the guild's skills affect Werewolves. That's already one counter to Werewolves.

As for vampires, there is an abundance of Dragon Knights with fire spells.

LazerusKI

Darkness wrote: »

The Fighter's Guild passive "Skilled Tracker" makes all of the guild's skills affect Werewolves. That's already one counter to Werewolves.

As for vampires, there is an abundance of Dragon Knights with fire spells.

i allready fear them...but they need to fear me too.
Love my Nightblade Vampire

Pseudonym

I'm a vampire simply because I love vampies. I became a creature of the night for roleplaying reason. As for the skills; they're alright, but they certainly don't warrant 50% increased fire damage taken.

Vampires are glass cannons; kill fast, die fast.

ThatHappyCat

Darkness wrote: »

The Fighter's Guild passive "Skilled Tracker" makes all of the guild's skills affect Werewolves. That's already one counter to Werewolves.

As for vampires, there is an abundance of Dragon Knights with fire spells.

Pretty sure Fighters Guild skills affect Vampires too, as Vampires fall under "Undead".

Templars have a skill aptly named "Vampire's Bane", dealing a lot of fire damage.

Given the number of bow users in PvP I don't think Werewolves need to worry about their poison weakness not coming into play.

JamieK81

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Already seeing vampires and werewolves in PvP and the huge skill line advantages, especially the passive abilities compared to poison vulnerability werewolf and fire vulnerability vampire are too weak, especially werewolf since there are very few poison attacks.

I see this turning into vamp vs werewolf instead of ESO. It reminds me of the unlocking of Jedi in Star Wars Galaxies were almost everyone was playing one. Pretty disappointed on how this is turning out so early in the life of this game.

I personally think the limitations are too high, well not the weaknesses, i mean the limitations, like the vampire needing to feed every 30mins.....please totally stupid and the werewolf thing where they turn into a wolf, it should be a toggle ability where all their abilities are used, it shouldn't be a limited effect type of thing.

JamieK81

Pseudonym wrote: »

I'm a vampire simply because I love vampies. I became a creature of the night for roleplaying reason. As for the skills; they're alright, but they certainly don't warrant 50% increased fire damage taken.

Vampires are glass cannons; kill fast, die fast.

I would ignore stuff like that, they just want something thats easy to kill, pvp'ers tend to be like that.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

We dont need a nerf this one says we need more active spells such as dominations, calm, telekinetic grab (im gunna miss this one for long) and vampire pet summons ; 3

Im not effraid of dragon knight... they will learn to fear my insane regenerative ability, as for the fighters guild they will be utherly anoying but not everyone runs theyr ability.. that shall be the mortals downfal! And soon... soon the sun shall set on thamriel and a new dark age shall rise... an age dominated by the daughters and sons of Lamae! Glory to the blood matron!

I WILL DARKEN THE SKY!!!!! (Lord Harkon 4rth era)

Argurios

My 2nd skill set when i pvp, will be purely based around witch hunting bloodsuckers and puppydogs, tooled out with fighters guild skills that i have been levelling since very early.

*Click* Headshot! Anyone who pvps as a non creature should do the same.

Also, what about the fighter's guild bounty hunter passive, how does that exactly work? Is it about killing vampires and lycanthropes?

Sheneria

if by Overpowered you mean getting 1 shotted by most mobs in veteran dungeons and pvp then yes vampires are really OP

Spiritreaver_ESO

Pseudonym wrote: »

I'm a vampire simply because I love vampies. I became a creature of the night for roleplaying reason. As for the skills; they're alright, but they certainly don't warrant 50% increased fire damage taken.

Vampires are glass cannons; kill fast, die fast.

Totally agree. Even against trash mobs 10+ lvls beneath me, as a vampire i have to keep constant attention to what is going on. I don't think those who think vampires are op'd realize just how fragile vampires are. The glass cannon comparison is completely justified.

Taking the whole 'eminent fiery death' bit out of the picture, the HP regen down part of the Vampirism debuff is huge. It literally makes feeding a necessity in TESO as opposed to in other TES games. If you don't feed, you are at a huge disadvantage and are forced to keep an ample stock of HP consumables onhand. So you have vampires having to hunt down suitable prey often or paying a decent cost in maintaining HP curatives.

And that is just one point. There are others. And i know in my gut that when the Justice system is added, vampires and werewolves both are going to have a whole new set of challenges thrust on them.

So no, i don't think the infected have it too easy in the least.

strikethub17_ESO

Anyone that is planning on tanking should be neither a werewolf or a vampire. And definitely not a vampire. Introducing weaknesses like that is just going to make you an ineffective tank in Veteran content. I really hope people are thinking this through before they do it.

I'll probably get an alt infected for RP or something, but I'm not going to go dungeon running with my main while infected with either. Because you know that there's going to be enemies and bosses that hit on weaknesses for both werewolves and vampires. And I certainly don't want to be "that guy" in a dungeon that's getting 2 shotted because he just had to be a vampire or werewolf.

Bretentious

While I tend to agree that tanks probably shouldn't be vampires (there's SO much fire damage in this game), poison is typically rare enough that I think a werewolf might be okay. For general dungeon running I don't really see any issues, though.

In CoH, there was a character class that essentially had a kryptonite mechanic and there'd be a few enemies in every mission that could pretty much 2-shot them. We compensated by just targeting those guys first as a group. It was definitely doable.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Fire weakness? Dont make me laugh... if you so effraid of fire then run a dark elf take an amulet of fire resistance and gimp up your build toward fire resist like all vampire should. Im a vampire healer and know what ive been the last one standing in my party several time in the blessed crucible (so much fire). I dont get one shot despite behing a khajiit because of a quite high elemental resistance (clothie) and because i actualy wear fire resistant amulet. In theory i dont take more fire damage then a medium armor character who is NOT a vampire.

Ill likely enchant all my jewelry with fire resistance to cope with my weakness in +10 and pvp. We see fire ennemies we target them and kill them first end of the issue.

Im more concerned about the fighters guild stunlock then my fire weakness.

Mulk

you don't need a ton of fire damage to deal with a vampire. Anyone who has silver bolts (knockdown plus big damage against any undead or daedra) can CC a vampire until they are dead, assuming you don't skill spam until out of resources.

Works well on transformed werewolves too.

People will catch on in time in pvp and this complaint will be less common. I don't think they are in any need of a nerf, as the mechanics exist in game to deal with them.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

As i already said im more concerned about the fighting guild stunlock. But most player wont even use it in the first place... we gunna get a few vampire slayer around a lot of lootbags and a few pups nothing to worry about us not dominating most battlefields. You wont always know if we are a vampire or not at first glance especialy if we bear our helms. Likely fighters guild based build also might be lackluster against normal people as well if not actualy dark brotherhood skill set users (because yes thieves guild and dark brotherhood are coming and likely we gunna see a new breed of assasins in the game soon)

ArgonianAssassin

50% fire damage debuff is insane in pve, bosses like the lava queen who use fire damage will one shot you. I say nerf the debuff, getting 1 shot isnt fun, especially when the one shot in unavoidable (massive fire damage aoe spreads out in all directions, unavoidable to melee characters.) or fire beetles(leaves a trail of fire where ever they walk, unavoidable to melee characters) simple fireballs(will take away a good quarter of your health). Nerf the fire damage debuff for vampires, add some other debuff(reduced damage, healing, and regeneration in sunlight? receive less healing from holy spells? healing staff/templar abilities, receive more healing from blood altar?) But as it stands, that 50% fire damage debuff is ridiculous, at least in pve.

Ravinsild

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

50% fire damage debuff is insane in pve, bosses like the lava queen who use fire damage will one shot you. I say nerf the debuff, getting 1 shot isnt fun, especially when the one shot in unavoidable (massive fire damage aoe spreads out in all directions, unavoidable to melee characters.) or fire beetles(leaves a trail of fire where ever they walk, unavoidable to melee characters) simple fireballs(will take away a good quarter of your health). Nerf the fire damage debuff for vampires, add some other debuff(reduced damage, healing, and regeneration in sunlight? receive less healing from holy spells? healing staff/templar abilities, receive more healing from blood altar?) But as it stands, that 50% fire damage debuff is ridiculous, at least in pve.

I made that excuse too. Then I learned to play, got better, and stopped dying.

Yes, the fire beetles killed me at first. Then i got better.

Yes the Fire Queen's AOE fire is annoying, but when I saw her about to cast I backed up and it's very easy to dodge. Once it was over I went back in and DPSed.

That dungeon was tough because I was unfamiliar with it. Then I learned and stopped dying. It's not the debuff, my friend, it is you.

ArgonianAssassin

k cool, too bad I can't see when she's about to cast it, and that doesn't change the fact that being one shot is pretty damn ridiculous and unforgiving. Maybe in first person it's easier to tell when she's about to do it, but I don't do dungeons in first person, and it was also my first time in the dungeon.

Ravinsild

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

k cool, too bad I can't see when she's about to cast it, and that doesn't change the fact that being one shot is pretty damn ridiculous and unforgiving. Maybe in first person it's easier to tell when she's about to do it, but I don't do dungeons in first person, and it was also my first time in the dungeon.

I play in 3rd person only. I have only done the dungeon once.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

medium armor vampire has the worst fire resist of all possible spec... unless you have jewelry or a elemental resiliant race your in for a nightmare if you cant dodge correctly

ArgonianAssassin

Ravinsild wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

k cool, too bad I can't see when she's about to cast it, and that doesn't change the fact that being one shot is pretty damn ridiculous and unforgiving. Maybe in first person it's easier to tell when she's about to do it, but I don't do dungeons in first person, and it was also my first time in the dungeon.

I play in 3rd person only. I have only done the dungeon once.

Fantastic for -you-. I can dodge decently well, just not that one specific ability the lava queen does, especially when im in melee.

Argurios

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

50% fire damage debuff is insane in pve, bosses like the lava queen who use fire damage will one shot you. I say nerf the debuff, getting 1 shot isnt fun, especially when the one shot in unavoidable (massive fire damage aoe spreads out in all directions, unavoidable to melee characters.) or fire beetles(leaves a trail of fire where ever they walk, unavoidable to melee characters) simple fireballs(will take away a good quarter of your health). Nerf the fire damage debuff for vampires, add some other debuff(reduced damage, healing, and regeneration in sunlight? receive less healing from holy spells? healing staff/templar abilities, receive more healing from blood altar?) But as it stands, that 50% fire damage debuff is ridiculous, at least in pve.

Its not ridiculous at all, and it doesn't need nerfing. Its a fair price for the buffs vampires get. If you don't like the extra fire damage, don't be a vampire. Its that simple. They shouldn't nerf anything that makes people die just because people don't like dying. It happens too much in MMOs because of whiny kids that can't think out of the box. Just get better at realising what kills you and how to avoid it.

If i can tank the first boss in veteran fungal grotto as a werewolf without dying, then you have no excuse.

Jnaathra

Everyone is all fire damage fire damage fire damage. I have fire damage and I've found vampires in 3v1 situations. Only to watch them spam mist form and get away. I don't know how they do it with the cost of the skill, but over and over and over they use it until they slip back into enemy lines.

It is the best "hard reset" in the game. If you are in a bad situation spam that crap and get away. Reset the fight and come back.

ArgonianAssassin

Jnaathra wrote: »

Everyone is all fire damage fire damage fire damage. I have fire damage and I've found vampires in 3v1 situations. Only to watch them spam mist form and get away. I don't know how they do it with the cost of the skill, but over and over and over they use it until they slip back into enemy lines.

It is the best "hard reset" in the game. If you are in a bad situation spam that crap and get away. Reset the fight and come back.

Stage 4 vampirism reduces the spell cost of all vampire abilities by 60%

Brittany_Joy

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

50% fire damage debuff is insane in pve, bosses like the lava queen who use fire damage will one shot you. I say nerf the debuff, getting 1 shot isnt fun, especially when the one shot in unavoidable (massive fire damage aoe spreads out in all directions, unavoidable to melee characters.) or fire beetles(leaves a trail of fire where ever they walk, unavoidable to melee characters) simple fireballs(will take away a good quarter of your health). Nerf the fire damage debuff for vampires, add some other debuff(reduced damage, healing, and regeneration in sunlight? receive less healing from holy spells? healing staff/templar abilities, receive more healing from blood altar?) But as it stands, that 50% fire damage debuff is ridiculous, at least in pve.

Mist form will probably help you out there...I suggest learning your abilities lol.

Tacromus_ESO

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

We dont need a nerf this one says we need more active spells such as dominations, calm, telekinetic grab (im gunna miss this one for long) and vampire pet summons ; 3

Im not effraid of dragon knight... they will learn to fear my insane regenerative ability, as for the fighters guild they will be utherly anoying but not everyone runs theyr ability.. that shall be the mortals downfal! And soon... soon the sun shall set on thamriel and a new dark age shall rise... an age dominated by the daughters and sons of Lamae! Glory to the blood matron!

I WILL DARKEN THE SKY!!!!! (Lord Harkon 4rth era)

I'm going to bite your jugular and claw your stomach, and my pack will hunt down the rest of your kind. The daughters of Lamae shall learn to once again fear those who are worthy to call themselves "Of the pack".

Phoenix99

They are generally fine. The only skill that requires a minor tweak is Mist Form. Add 1-1,5s delay before consecutive recasts and the skill will be good.

I cannot say anything about PvE content for vampires, but in PvP they are almost brokenly OP. Cheap Mist form cost, especially with magicka regen build. + very few counters to their mobility (I can count 5-6 max across all of class/world/guild skill sets). If someone will tell me use FG skill set, I will just laugh at them, because:

1) Silver bolt - 5% chance to gimp a vamp... if RNG gods love you, good luck, stun/knockdown is easily breakable
2) Circle of protection - useless in PvP
3) Expert Hunter - again 20% to deal extra dmg? maybe it would be useful if you could target them in the mist form. still RNG gods need to love you
4) Trap beast - very situational in PvP, it might be okish when defending some narrow breach/space, otherwise useless
Ult) Dawnbreaker - perhaps the only skill that is useful and reliable, but then again, you need to sacrifice other ult options.

WW are fine in PvP, Vamps need this minor delay to recast of Mist form and they will also be fine for PvP.

For PvE I think they are also fine as they are, but require some skill when in environments that are by design hostile to them ( a lot of poison/fire).

All in all, I believe adding that one small change to the Mist will make them good for both PvE and PvP content. Just L2P around in built weaknesses, you still gain a lot from the templates.

chimneyswift_ESO

Phoenix99 wrote: »

They are generally fine. The only skill that requires a minor tweak is Mist Form. Add 1-1,5s delay before consecutive recasts and the skill will be good.

I cannot say anything about PvE content for vampires, but in PvP they are almost brokenly OP. Cheap Mist form cost, especially with magicka regen build. + very few counters to their mobility (I can count 5-6 max across all of class/world/guild skill sets). If someone will tell me use FG skill set, I will just laugh at them, because:

1) Silver bolt - 5% chance to gimp a vamp... if RNG gods love you, good luck, stun/knockdown is easily breakable
2) Circle of protection - useless in PvP
3) Expert Hunter - again 20% to deal extra dmg? maybe it would be useful if you could target them in the mist form. still RNG gods need to love you
4) Trap beast - very situational in PvP, it might be okish when defending some narrow breach/space, otherwise useless
Ult) Dawnbreaker - perhaps the only skill that is useful and reliable, but then again, you need to sacrifice other ult options.

WW are fine in PvP, Vamps need this minor delay to recast of Mist form and they will also be fine for PvP.

For PvE I think they are also fine as they are, but require some skill when in environments that are by design hostile to them ( a lot of poison/fire).

All in all, I believe adding that one small change to the Mist will make them good for both PvE and PvP content. Just L2P around in built weaknesses, you still gain a lot from the templates.

I agree with some of what you said but I don't think there should be any cool down on Mist Form. Sure it's a getaway move and that's always annoying to fight against, but other classes (not sure which one) have teleport abilities that can teleport you away from attackers at a good distance. While the teleport ability may be more effective (sending you further away and possibly out of range of bows), Mist Form still takes skill to use. You "kinda" vanish for about 3.5 seconds but are still close enough to be attacked...hence people using it over and over again. Also keep in mind you don't become totally invisible like you can with a nightblade.

I don't think any ability in the game should ever have a cool down. Zenimax has stated before that you can cast spells to your heart's content...until your magicka runs out (excluding Ultimates of course). I love this. This sets ESO in a unique category since most games use annoying cool downs and I would hate to see ESO change 1 move or a handful of moves to a cool down system.