Pvp is slowly dying

Warhawke_80 · October 11

TDVM wrote: »

Pvp is slowly dying from lack of content, terrible balance and adding a new arena/mode(most likely) will not fix this situation. Also in pvp there is no motivation to play, for fun? And what fun can be if the balance does not change for several years and this is not to mention the balance of classes.

Slowly?

No...I'm pretty sure PVP is dead, I was speaking in another thread that the best way to solve this is to end the war and make Cyrodil a PVE area...then the devs could use the Arena System to kick start a new PVP game, this would allow for a smaller but more active PVP game, that could reward sets, mounts, costumes, titles in daily and weekly events.... and it would also solve the broken network issues, I mean lets face it the huge battles the devs wanted never have and never will happen...but a more intimate PVP game would be insanely popular.

The only thing the PVP community would lose are dead Battlegrounds...what they would gain would be so much more valuable.

Virys1967 · October 11

huskandhunger wrote: »

aurroo

*grabs rolled up newspaper and poison

Iriidius · October 11

Virys1967 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

At this point I'd like zos to actually consider getting rid of campaigns like Blackreach and Icereach (Icereach/sub 50 has 0 purpose and is honestly just waste of pixels and server space, just remove it already. People only use it to sell emp anyway).

Have two campaigns:
* Grey Host, CP PvP without faction locks
* Ravenwatch, no CP PvP without faction locks.
Add a small cooldown on how often you can swap between alliances (once every 12-24 hours), just to prevent the most extreme faction hoppers.

The current problem is that population caps are too low and at the same time PvP doesn't have the population it used to. We also have too many campaigns which spreads out the population even more.

I agree about having two campaign instances, but no faction locks would be a mistake.
I've been in Cyrodiil, on one alliance, since 2015.
The problem now is that so many people switch to the campaign that's winning, even with having to spend real world cash, and many have multiple accounts with access to any faction at any time, so with no faction locks, we would wind up with the map one color for the most of a campaign, sitting in the base, reminiscing about how fun and competitive it used to be.
Imbalance is a real problem.
Five days into this campaign and one alliance had 10k more than the other two, and at present is 20k ahead of the other two with 21 days left in the campaign.
It was the same last month.
There's no competition, there's no surprise at who wins the campaign at the end of it like it used to be when we ran within 2-3k points of each other.
I think what might fix it is balance.
If they limit the amount of players that can get in by the population of the alliance with the least bars, we may see it even out.
Right now it's not even worth trying to siege a keep because you'll have no chance with the sheer number of zerglings that will show up.

With faction lock you can still choose the winning alliance because often the same faction is winning a campaign for multiple month in a row and you obly have to change once and can stay on the faction. Even if the winning faction changes you can wait a few days to see who is winning before you choose faction and start PvPing in locked campaign locking yourself.
With one faction leading by 10k/20k after 5/10 days it should be obvious pretty fast who is winning and no further changes should be needed.
And like you already said some have multiple accounts and can play on every faction whenever they want.
At the same time faction lock also prevents players seeking challenge from changing to weaker faction.

Limiting players of outnumbering factions to that of the outnumbered one would equalize numbers. Giving outnumbered factions stat boost to get same strength as strongest faction would also equalize population.

DigiAngel · October 11

TDVM wrote: »

Pvp is slowly dying from lack of content, terrible balance and adding a new arena/mode(most likely) will not fix this situation. Also in pvp there is no motivation to play, for fun? And what fun can be if the balance does not change for several years and this is not to mention the balance of classes.

And that's really it isn't it? AP accumulate pretty fast (I have 4 million right now)...and once you get all the sets you want they're practically useless (especially in the current economy).

It's just not fun....and minus that....why play? It's why I don't...and haven't since Gold Road.

AngryPenguin · October 11

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

Pvp is slowly dying from lack of content, terrible balance and adding a new arena/mode(most likely) will not fix this situation. Also in pvp there is no motivation to play, for fun? And what fun can be if the balance does not change for several years and this is not to mention the balance of classes.

Slowly?

No...I'm pretty sure PVP is dead, I was speaking in another thread that the best way to solve this is to end the war and make Cyrodil a PVE area...then the devs could use the Arena System to kick start a new PVP game, this would allow for a smaller but more active PVP game, that could reward sets, mounts, costumes, titles in daily and weekly events.... and it would also solve the broken network issues, I mean lets face it the huge battles the devs wanted never have and never will happen...but a more intimate PVP game would be insanely popular.

The only thing the PVP community would lose are dead Battlegrounds...what they would gain would be so much more valuable.

I really wish people would stop with the "make Cyrodiil PvE only" nonsense. Why can't people appreciate ESO how it was designed, you know, WITH PvP? If ya'll want to play solo questing versions of Elder Scrolls you have four options to do that without lobbying ZOS to change the game into something other than what the devs designed the game to be. So just stop with the toxic "make Cyrodiil PvE only" demands.

ESO is an Elder Scrolls THEMED game. It's an MMO, not a solo game, and most people I know used to love PvP before ZOS cut the group size in half and cut the pop cap to 10% of what it originally was.

Dax_Draconis · October 11

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

Pvp is slowly dying from lack of content, terrible balance and adding a new arena/mode(most likely) will not fix this situation. Also in pvp there is no motivation to play, for fun? And what fun can be if the balance does not change for several years and this is not to mention the balance of classes.

Slowly?

No...I'm pretty sure PVP is dead, I was speaking in another thread that the best way to solve this is to end the war and make Cyrodil a PVE area...then the devs could use the Arena System to kick start a new PVP game, this would allow for a smaller but more active PVP game, that could reward sets, mounts, costumes, titles in daily and weekly events.... and it would also solve the broken network issues, I mean lets face it the huge battles the devs wanted never have and never will happen...but a more intimate PVP game would be insanely popular.

The only thing the PVP community would lose are dead Battlegrounds...what they would gain would be so much more valuable.

I really wish people would stop with the "make Cyrodiil PvE only" nonsense. Why can't people appreciate ESO how it was designed, you know, WITH PvP? If ya'll want to play solo questing versions of Elder Scrolls you have four options to do that without lobbying ZOS to change the game into something other than what the devs designed the game to be. So just stop with the toxic "make Cyrodiil PvE only" demands.

ESO is an Elder Scrolls THEMED game. It's an MMO, not a solo game, and most people I know used to love PvP before ZOS cut the group size in half and cut the pop cap to 10% of what it originally was.

A PvE version of Cyrodiil that isn't so barren would be nice to explore. Nothing toxic about that in my opinion.

Warhawke_80 · October 12

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

Pvp is slowly dying from lack of content, terrible balance and adding a new arena/mode(most likely) will not fix this situation. Also in pvp there is no motivation to play, for fun? And what fun can be if the balance does not change for several years and this is not to mention the balance of classes.

Slowly?

No...I'm pretty sure PVP is dead, I was speaking in another thread that the best way to solve this is to end the war and make Cyrodil a PVE area...then the devs could use the Arena System to kick start a new PVP game, this would allow for a smaller but more active PVP game, that could reward sets, mounts, costumes, titles in daily and weekly events.... and it would also solve the broken network issues, I mean lets face it the huge battles the devs wanted never have and never will happen...but a more intimate PVP game would be insanely popular.

The only thing the PVP community would lose are dead Battlegrounds...what they would gain would be so much more valuable.

I really wish people would stop with the "make Cyrodiil PvE only" nonsense. Why can't people appreciate ESO how it was designed, you know, WITH PvP? If ya'll want to play solo questing versions of Elder Scrolls you have four options to do that without lobbying ZOS to change the game into something other than what the devs designed the game to be. So just stop with the toxic "make Cyrodiil PvE only" demands.

ESO is an Elder Scrolls THEMED game. It's an MMO, not a solo game, and most people I know used to love PvP before ZOS cut the group size in half and cut the pop cap to 10% of what it originally was.

Excuse me but no one is lobbying for or demanding anything...I offered a revamp of PVP one that would actually breath life into a dead aspect of the game....

Also throwing out meaningless words like "Toxic" doesn't make your position more logical or virtuous...we all know what ESO is and isn't (despite Matt flat out calling it a Online Role Playing Game several times) and Kevin has made it clear that all opinions are welcomed...shouting me down and stamping your feet because you disagree with me is in poor taste and is not constructive to the greater conversation

ElvenOverlord · October 12

I thought it was already dead tbh

Rowjoh · October 12

But it is being 'balanced now - Nightblades Cloak is inexplicably being nerfed with a silly toggle, while Sorcs God mode combo shield+Streak remains unchanged yet again and ball groups persist a plenty ruining it for everyone other than other ball groups.

Nharimlur_Finor · October 12

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

A PvE version of Cyrodiil that isn't so barren would be nice to explore. Nothing toxic about that in my opinion.

Yep.
Fill it with crafting nodes. Make those the only ones that drop Ink.
When someone Streaks in and steals YOUR NODE, you can kill them.

Also, make character deaths over 3000CP permanent. You get an urn-container with your dead chars digital assets in the mail. The character is greyed out and not deletable on the home screen. When all your chars die permanently, you get the 'Game Over' message. Maybe include a leaderboard obituary to announce deaths.

Once you get over the absolute insult toxicity of this post, you'll see that I'm backing a winner.

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 12

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

Literally everyone i know was asking for new stuff to be added in Cyrodiil, a new pvp map or something to add in Cyro since its the same zone since 10 years.

Imagine you would do your quest and pvp stuff in the same map since 10 years...

Like nobody was asking for new bg mode because its the niche of niche of the niche.

So yes we want no pvp content but no new battleground mode, youre right.

OsUfi · October 12

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

So yes we want no pvp content but no new battleground mode, youre right.

Funny thing about MMORPGs. They have a diverse playerbase. So many people want different things.

I've PvP'ed in Cyro at least one night a week, every week, for hours a time, for the last 3-4 years. I do daily BGs. I almost never do daily RNDs or pledges.

Am I a PvPer? Because I'd quite like a BG update.

Major_Mangle · October 12

The few changes I´d like ZOS to make to Cyrodiil.

* Get rid of faction locks from Greyhost. Introduce a cooldown on how often you can change to keep the conspiracy enthusiasts happy (the people who cope about "spies" and "trolls" etc). If I´ve multiple friend groups I wanna PvP with it´s absolutely absurd that I´ve to choose which one I wanna PvP with and exclude the other one for an entire month. Add a small soft lock that prevents people from jumping back and forth each day and maybe add a small penalty in terms of you missing out on "end of campaign rewards" if you swapped faction.
* Remove Blackreach (this would have to come with an increased population cap on Greyhost). On PCEU you´ve entire factions avoid Greyhost who rather Pvdoor the map on Blackreach (looking at you EP). If they went Greyhost the campaign would be much more entertaining and you´d be able to find more fights across the map.
* Remove sub 50 campaign. It´s only purpose is to sell emp anyway and it´s honeslty just a waste of server space at this point.

OsUfi · October 12

Major_Mangle wrote: »

The few changes I´d like ZOS to make to Cyrodiil.

* Remove Blackreach (this would have to come with an increased population cap on Greyhost). On PCEU you´ve entire factions avoid Greyhost who rather Pvdoor the map on Blackreach (looking at you EP). If they went Greyhost the campaign would be much more entertaining and you´d be able to find more fights across the map.
* Remove sub 50 campaign. It´s only purpose is to sell emp anyway and it´s honeslty just a waste of server space at this point.

Removing playstyles is not what we need. We've already lost Ravenwatch. If someone wants to PvDoor, let them have at it. They won't enjoy Greyhost if you force them there.

MISTFORMBZZZ · October 12

OsUfi wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

ESO PVP community:
We want new pvp content.

Also pvp community:
We need only death match.

So yes we want no pvp content but no new battleground mode, youre right.

Funny thing about MMORPGs. They have a diverse playerbase. So many people want different things.

I've PvP'ed in Cyro at least one night a week, every week, for hours a time, for the last 3-4 years. I do daily BGs. I almost never do daily RNDs or pledges.

Am I a PvPer? Because I'd quite like a BG update.

Yes youre a pvp player but youre also the niche (BG's) of the niche (PVP in Eso).

Glad you get pleased with the coming upgrade now its time to please the majority.

Virys1967 · October 12

Iriidius wrote: »

Virys1967 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

At this point I'd like zos to actually consider getting rid of campaigns like Blackreach and Icereach (Icereach/sub 50 has 0 purpose and is honestly just waste of pixels and server space, just remove it already. People only use it to sell emp anyway).

Have two campaigns:
* Grey Host, CP PvP without faction locks
* Ravenwatch, no CP PvP without faction locks.
Add a small cooldown on how often you can swap between alliances (once every 12-24 hours), just to prevent the most extreme faction hoppers.

The current problem is that population caps are too low and at the same time PvP doesn't have the population it used to. We also have too many campaigns which spreads out the population even more.

I agree about having two campaign instances, but no faction locks would be a mistake.
I've been in Cyrodiil, on one alliance, since 2015.
The problem now is that so many people switch to the campaign that's winning, even with having to spend real world cash, and many have multiple accounts with access to any faction at any time, so with no faction locks, we would wind up with the map one color for the most of a campaign, sitting in the base, reminiscing about how fun and competitive it used to be.
Imbalance is a real problem.
Five days into this campaign and one alliance had 10k more than the other two, and at present is 20k ahead of the other two with 21 days left in the campaign.
It was the same last month.
There's no competition, there's no surprise at who wins the campaign at the end of it like it used to be when we ran within 2-3k points of each other.
I think what might fix it is balance.
If they limit the amount of players that can get in by the population of the alliance with the least bars, we may see it even out.
Right now it's not even worth trying to siege a keep because you'll have no chance with the sheer number of zerglings that will show up.

With faction lock you can still choose the winning alliance because often the same faction is winning a campaign for multiple month in a row and you obly have to change once and can stay on the faction. Even if the winning faction changes you can wait a few days to see who is winning before you choose faction and start PvPing in locked campaign locking yourself.
With one faction leading by 10k/20k after 5/10 days it should be obvious pretty fast who is winning and no further changes should be needed.
And like you already said some have multiple accounts and can play on every faction whenever they want.
At the same time faction lock also prevents players seeking challenge from changing to weaker faction.

Limiting players of outnumbering factions to that of the outnumbered one would equalize numbers. Giving outnumbered factions stat boost to get same strength as strongest faction would also equalize population.

Rarely has anyone ever switched to a weaker faction, especially just to be overwhelmed and not make a difference.
We already get a low pop boost, and I doubt they'll ever increase stats enough to equalize an alliance to one they are outnumbered by 4 to 1.
The problem is the players.
If they actually want to save PvP, they'll quit killing it.
Most just want an easy time of winning with minimal effort, and some go to great lengths to do it.
That's not PvP.
Nobody is loyal to one alliance anymore, win or lose, and that's when PvP was fun to play. Once the faction hoppers figured a way around the alliance change scrolls, PvP started to go downhill.
People have turned the PvP in this game into the only pay to win aspect of Elder Scrolls Online, and it's pretty pathetic.

Warhawke_80 · October 12

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

I thought it was already dead tbh

That is how most people feel....

At some point they are going to have to end this idiotic "war" and when they do leaving Cyrodil a barren wasteland would be illogical...just think of all they could do if they rebuilt the Imperial city? and surrounding locals?

It would be amazing

CatoUnchained · October 12

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

I thought it was already dead tbh

That is how most people feel....

At some point they are going to have to end this idiotic "war" and when they do leaving Cyrodil a barren wasteland would be illogical...just think of all they could do if they rebuilt the Imperial city? and surrounding locals?

It would be amazing

Please stop with the lobbying to make Cyrodiil a PvE only zone. PvP was part of the original game design and advertised as such from the beginning and Cyrodiil PvP should remain a significant portion of the game going forward. You can always go back to skyrim, oblivion, morrowind etc. if you're only interested in solo questing. ESO was designed to have Cyrodiil PvP be one of the two end game activities, and it should remain that way going forward.

If you genuinely want "this idiotic war" to end, stop waging it in the first place.

notyuu · October 12

Problem: PvP is slowly dying
Solution: Make PvP die faster

Joking aside the main issue with PvP is that the barrier to entry, aka the diffcuility might as well be a vertical cliff, as a result it's almost impossible for new players to get into it to any real degree, mix in the lack of updates and the lagzilla and overall PvP is a generally unplesant time for all, and while not a perfect soloution, adding in a "power boost" to players new to pvp (based on account) which winds down as they spend more time doing the PvP stuff (kills, rank, Ap earned, ect) would massivly help with the onboarding process as it were, I mean currently it kinda goes as follows for a majory of players trying pvp for the first time.

-run around for a bit
-encounter another player
-I see, they are an enemy
-How should I, no, wait, nevermind, I'm dead in less than 2 seconds, this sucks.
-Quits pvp

but with the powerboost they would at least having a fighting chance, thus could win, and are more likely to stay around afterwards

for you youngens, there was this game called gears of war, the devs did a data harvest, turned out that 90% of players who failed to get a kill in their first PvP match didn't play the PvP ever again, this was addressed in GoW 2 by adding a "power boost" (slightly more damage, slightly more hp, slightly faster movement) to tip the odds in favour of the newer player, and sure, while ESO and GoW are two different types of games, the mentaility stays the same across the range, so adding an account based power boost to "new" players would let them get their foot in the door and thus would be more likely to stay around......and then later complain about the lag and lack of updates

Tandor · October 12

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

I thought it was already dead tbh

No, but it's one of the slowest deaths since it's been dying since at least 2015, if not since launch in 2014 depending on who you listen to. The trouble is that most of those who post here that PvP is literally unplayable are still playing it

!

martinjon · October 12

TDVM wrote: »

Pvp is slowly dying from lack of content, terrible balance and adding a new arena/mode(most likely) will not fix this situation. Also in pvp there is no motivation to play, for fun? And what fun can be if the balance does not change for several years and this is not to mention the balance of classes.

PVP is the most attractive part of the game, but it requires high technology and great equipment, if only the equipment can be enhanced, why not equipment enhancement system

Warhawke_80 · October 12

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

I thought it was already dead tbh

That is how most people feel....

At some point they are going to have to end this idiotic "war" and when they do leaving Cyrodil a barren wasteland would be illogical...just think of all they could do if they rebuilt the Imperial city? and surrounding locals?

It would be amazing

Please stop with the lobbying to make Cyrodiil a PvE only zone. PvP was part of the original game design and advertised as such from the beginning and Cyrodiil PvP should remain a significant portion of the game going forward. You can always go back to skyrim, oblivion, morrowind etc. if you're only interested in solo questing. ESO was designed to have Cyrodiil PvP be one of the two end game activities, and it should remain that way going forward.

If you genuinely want "this idiotic war" to end, stop waging it in the first place.

NO

I have the right to my opinion as well.

Rohamad_Ali · October 12

PvP maybe dead but this one is use to playing with dead things.

katanagirl1 · October 13

With all its problems, Cyrodiil can still be a fun time. Today’s battle at Ash on PS NA GH was epic, 45 minutes and a 64k dtic for my faction. What was even more satisfying was AD insisted on sieging us instead of defending their scroll they took from EP and it went back to whatever EP keep they took it from. Lol.

Don’t take my fun away, I’m a grumpy girl without my PvP.

Rowjoh · October 13

katanagirl1 wrote: »

With all its problems, Cyrodiil can still be a fun time. Today’s battle at Ash on PS NA GH was epic, 45 minutes and a 64k dtic for my faction. What was even more satisfying was AD insisted on sieging us instead of defending their scroll they took from EP and it went back to whatever EP keep they took it from. Lol.

Don’t take my fun away, I’m a grumpy girl without my PvP.

Same. And love the AD morning cap so we can take it all back during the day and especially at prime time when seeing them pop locked without a scroll or keep says it all.

LalMirchi · October 13

PVP's not dead, it's merely resting

Nharimlur_Finor · October 13

LalMirchi wrote: »

PVP's not dead, it's merely resting

Pining for the Fjords?

silky_soft · October 14

LalMirchi wrote: »

PVP's not dead, it's merely resting

Yea not sure if the 15min bg que are because I'm lagged by 15min from the server, there is only 17 people in all of eso playing bg or there is a person who manually manages the que is sleeping.

Sarannah · October 14

Personally I am conflicted about the state of PvP.

One the one hand I would like to see the PvP community get more and new PvP content. But on the other hand I'd love to see PvP die completely so ZOS stops with the nerf over nerf over nerf updates that suck the soul out of the game and the gameplay, only for the sake of PvP balance which can never be achieved anyways and for a mode only a few people play.

AvalonRanger · October 14

Both ESO PVP and PVE combat is extremely old fashion game.
So basically all combat is "boring and painful" except
newer group trial.

But, major ESO fan is traditional Elder Scrolls fan.

So, people will pay money to get experience second age lore and story,
but not pay for only PVP. So it doesn't work as business without overland PVE
contents.

Personally, I want to play other game title, if I'm in really PVP mood.
But I don't except those essence for ESO.

I want to stay in "Skyrim with someone". Or same as solo RPG game.