Marauders are Still Unfun and Need a Significant Nerf

Syrusthevirus187

Dragonnord wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Whilst I was quite shocked to see a hit for over 32k on my death recap and annoyed because the Mino was nearly dead.....

I learned to beat Gothmau and I will learn to beat the Mino but a hit for 32k in Arc 2 does seem quite high imo! 😲

Are the 32k damage you received while blocking or the pure hit?

OP said that they got hit for 32K mid dodge

You don't get hit while dodging. That's what dodging is for. Imagine an action that is made to doge hits that doesn't dodge hits.
 

You absolutely can get hit mid dodge roll, this game doesn't have a good enough connection to have laggy 1 shots that require timing to survive.

James-Wayne

Im getting 30k hits as well and thats with max resistances. Its instant death. They are way overtuned. Same story with the werewolf, the bleeds are ticking 18k per second and that is on Arc 2. There is nothing in the game that can help you to manage that.

I think its just back to ZOS not testing their game out for the majority of the player base is all. Maybe give it a month and we might see changes.

James-Wayne

jaws343 wrote: »

By ARC 3, you can't even block hits from Gothmau, you have to kite and dodge roll the entire fight. They already had one marauder that was certainly overtuned and I haven't even seen the new ones yet.

If you thought Gothmau was OP in Arc 3 you dont want to see the new ones in Arc 2 haha

Makes it 100 times worse when a brew fable hits you with a potion and you shrink down so your damage taken is 200% and your damage done is 0.

And this is in Arc 2. Its a joke to be honest. IA needs to be balanced for Solo because right now Solo or Duo there is no difference in enemy damage.

acastanza_ESO

55K Clobber in Arc 3, desynced so badly you have no idea if you're going to get hit or not.
My ping during this hit? 88. (This was also a dodge).




On what planet is this a fair hit?!

@ZOS_Kevin this nonsense needs to be addressed.

Horny_Poney

To that you can also add their infinite range, even people in Deshaan are not safe from ennemies in IA.

HappyTheCamper

Marauders need to be removed period. There is nothing fun about trying to prepare for an IA run then having some random boss pull a Kool-Aid man and smash into your run by chance. They only serve the purpose to waste your time and prevent you from getting to Thoat sooner. They may drop class sets, but it’s just a time wasting fight and never worth the frustration.

Also I’ve fought like 20 marauders, and without hyperbole 18 of them were gothmau. 2 were the water one that spreads waves across the field. I don’t even know what the third marauder is or looks like. I’ve never seen it, and I’ve gotten Inkslayer multiple times.

Gorø

I find it funny that people use Gothmau as a reference. They've never seen Ulmor beyond arc 9. He just looks at you and oneshots you.

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Marauders need to be removed period. There is nothing fun about trying to prepare for an IA run then having some random boss pull a Kool-Aid man and smash into your run by chance. They only serve the purpose to waste your time and prevent you from getting to Thoat sooner. They may drop class sets, but it’s just a time wasting fight and never worth the frustration.

I highly disagree. Marauders make things in the archives more exciting. We don't need a rainbow sunshine ride to Thoat (especially that on later arcs, she literally becomes one of the easiests fights in the archives). At the very least, you can tune the unfair bosses to solo like Lady Bellain, Kalgrontiid and Ghemvas as they become literally impossible to clear beyond arc 10 (they inflict a massively powerful dot and you know what they say, you can't heal 59K HP per second when you only have 44K)

Really, archives just needs the bug fixing, no nerfs.

As for OP, was the boss debuffed? Major and minor cowardice are essential for an archive run. And yes while the new features seems buggy (Desyncs/block dropping with tempest synergy/Storm projection not working if you leave the archives or do the side missions), you can mitigate it by consuming a random offensive verse (and be lucky) and kiting this mfer a lot while applying both cowardice on him. But yeah, so far, he's the most annoying fight solo.

DenverRalphy

CGPsaint wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If they keep one shotting you, perhaps consider slotting a damage shield in lieu of a dps skill.

IA is not kind to DPS load-out builds. Marauders make very short work of DPS glass cannons. Esoecially if you're goin solo with a companion.

I used Hardened Ward on my MagSorc and can say with a high degree of certainty that this advice doesn't hold up. I can block cast Hardened Ward and still get clapped by Gothmau. If ZOS insists on having Gothmau be overtuned, then they could at least make the melee range consistent, and make roll dodge work reliably when trying to avoid damage. All things considered, and in comparison to the other two original marauders, Gothmau just feels like someone fat-fingered the attack values during implementation.

Huh. I must be playin something different then. Cuz today I took my newly minted MagSorc CP1198 solo with a companion into IA, and right at the beginning of Arc 2 this happened...



And it wasn't much of a fight.

M1SHAAN

spartaxoxo wrote: »

My tank companion isn't ignoring Gothmau, Gothmau is ignoring him. He's not the only boss that ignores companion taunt but the other isn't in IA and I can't think of which it is atm. Companion Taunt is buggy.

I've had the same issue with some dungeon bosses, iirc the second and third bosses of Red Petal Bastion were like that, my companion would unambiguously cast their taunt at the boss but it wouldn't bat an eye. I should try to get footage of that and submit a bug report.

James-Wayne

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

55K Clobber in Arc 3, desynced so badly you have no idea if you're going to get hit or not.
My ping during this hit? 88. (This was also a dodge).




On what planet is this a fair hit?!

@ZOS_Kevin this nonsense needs to be addressed.

You had 88 ping, bless you sir. Come to Australia where ping is 300 all day every day

FlopsyPrince

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

PvE one-shots don't need to exist. There's a difference between challenging and punishing.

Especially in IA!

That is one reason I have not gotten past the 3rd cycle and only the 2nd cycle for a few endeavors.

Sure, some players walk through it while playing blindfolded with their feet, but it is VERY UNFUN for me, so I don't bother with IA. Another "primary focus" that add no value for me.

Maybe consider why many people avoid a component and stop designing things like that.

I still remember all the hype about IA and how it was "the best thing since sliced bread" according to some streamers. I wonder how many of those were paid to say that now.

BananaBender

I don't really see the problem with the marauders. Are they difficult to deal with? Yes. Have they ended multiple of my runs? Yes. But isn't that the whole point of Infinite Archive? You are never going to complete IA, your run ends when you run out of threads. Dying is the whole point of IA. They keep you on your toes and without them being difficult the whole place would be a lot more boring. Now they offer a unique challenge because you can't fully prepare for them, so it tests your ability to adjust accordingly.

I don't really get why people complain IA being too grindy either. Is it grindy? Absolutely. Is that the whole point of it? Absolutely. It shouldn't really be a surprise to people that a dungeon that goes forever tends to be quite grindy by design. If you don't like it, don't participate.

There are a bunch of flaws and bugs that keep me from enjoying IA, but marauders and the grindiness are not on that list.

Oznog666

There are so many other pretty hard bosses and / or trials / arenas in the game but especially the harder content should not - never ever be nerfed. The archive is designed to be harder content in the higher arcs and sometimes, if you have bad luck, you are having tougher bosses in earlier arcs too. Of course I don't like it if Zhaj'hassa the Forgotten is killing me in early arcs because I didn't pay enough attention but that's bad luck and part of the game.

Summary: pleeeeease do not nerf any bosses in the archive. One day I will reach arc 20++ (or at least arc 7 xD) but not because it's an easy peasy rainbow walk.

Hvíthákarl

As much as I like the Infinite Archive and the Marauders as they are, I do also agree they feel more like a chore and "let's cap how far casuals can go" rather than an organic mechanic truly tied to the IA's design (the whole thing being a RNGfest doesn't exactly help either). So imo they would benefit from becoming an optional mechanic but a highly incentivized one so opting in feels truly rewarding. Making them actually harder, a high risk / high reward event, would spice things further.

Theignson

When IA came out we went as far as arc 7, but it takes too long.

Now we usually go through arc 3 and stop.

Gothmau can be fought as follows 9without a tank):
1) he is slow, so You can kite him 2) don't stay in melee range unless you block /dodge roll his heavy. 3) run way (kite, then apply dots/damage. 4) the only thing you have to avoid when kiting is is axes, they go around corners etc and travel a huge distance. You need to dodge roll the axes. He throws 3 of them. It takes a while, but do-able. He pauses after throwing the axes and you can apply damage.

Arc 3 Zumfinbul, however, is a different matter. 1) you can't kite him, he runs just as fast as players. 2) His clobber hits incredibly hard especially to non tanks, even if blocking.

The combination of speed and hitting so hard (usually heavy attack NPCs are slow and cumbersome, but ZOS no longer follows the prior rules) makes this pretty hard. Also, the higher up you go, the harder the trash hits, so spawning the 3rd round of trash by mistake can be fatal.

We beat the nasty Bull on level when I was playing my DK and had corrosive and could block /tank him some. But I do think he is overpowered because of the combination of speed and hard hitting.

The Werewolf: the problem is you cant see anything. I think this was not designed by a human, Had to be an AI. The whoel arena goes darka and its almost impossible to see mobs. Again, poor design.

acastanza_ESO

James-Wayne wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

55K Clobber in Arc 3, desynced so badly you have no idea if you're going to get hit or not.
My ping during this hit? 88. (This was also a dodge).

On what planet is this a fair hit?!

@ZOS_Kevin this nonsense needs to be addressed.

You had 88 ping, bless you sir. Come to Australia where ping is 300 all day every day

I only mention the ping to show that the insane amount of desync on these hits is not a connection issue, it's a ZOS problem.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

<img removed>

And it wasn't much of a fight.

I'd like to see what visions you got there. There are some (like Exsanguinate) that can make these pretty trivial. But also compared to the Minotaur, Gothmau is easy.

Jaimeh

Theignson wrote: »

When IA came out we went as far as arc 7, but it takes too long.


The Werewolf: the problem is you cant see anything. I think this was not designed by a human, Had to be an AI. The whoel arena goes darka and its almost impossible to see mobs. Again, poor design.

The lighting thing is even more of an issue in the ice arena. I got the WW marauder there and it was really hard to tell the ice pools from the ground when it was dark. Luckily it was in an early arc so it was doable, but I think this would be a thread wipe in a higher arc. In general I think they should adjust the lighting in the ice arenas, and especially the contrast: these areas have really low contrast, it's hard to fight, and it's also tiring for the eyes.

Treeshka

Well i commented on this thread earlier but yesterday me and my friend faced Lady Belain in Arc 12.

We did not survive the dot in the flying phase. At least Marauders you can kill, kite or apply weakening enchant etc. But this boss is most likely a run killer if you face it in higher Arcs. Provided that you are not playing Dragonknight. Believe me this is more frustrating then dying to a Marauder. Because once you die it does not spawn again.

katanagirl1

All this talk about the new content worries me (I’m on console).

I only do this content because furnishing leads are locked behind it. I don’t have a dedicated build for it because I have no interest in spending hours seeing how far I can go. I solo on my trials arcanist with all points in stamina and use shields to finish the first arc.

ZOS please put the leads on all chests. I have only one of some of them am some I have zero.

I am willing to do this content to a degree but doing one arc only severely limits the fortunes you can obtain for buying leads and actually getting some from chests.

I would love to be able to do all the achievements and experience the new content, but it is not for me. I hope the increased difficulty will not keep me from soloing arc 1 anymore.

FlopsyPrince

Oznog666 wrote: »

There are so many other pretty hard bosses and / or trials / arenas in the game but especially the harder content should not - never ever be nerfed. The archive is designed to be harder content in the higher arcs and sometimes, if you have bad luck, you are having tougher bosses in earlier arcs too. Of course I don't like it if Zhaj'hassa the Forgotten is killing me in early arcs because I didn't pay enough attention but that's bad luck and part of the game.

Summary: pleeeeease do not nerf any bosses in the archive. One day I will reach arc 20++ (or at least arc 7 xD) but not because it's an easy peasy rainbow walk.

What a great way to get more people to play it!

Make it impossible for many of us. Yeah, that is a great idea for a core feature!

Though the same is true against higher-level Tales of Tribute playing - hare and time consuming! Not the best approach for many players, but some certainly like both IA and ToT!

FlopsyPrince

katanagirl1 wrote: »

All this talk about the new content worries me (I’m on console).

I only do this content because furnishing leads are locked behind it. I don’t have a dedicated build for it because I have no interest in spending hours seeing how far I can go. I solo on my trials arcanist with all points in stamina and use shields to finish the first arc.

ZOS please put the leads on all chests. I have only one of some of them am some I have zero.

I am willing to do this content to a degree but doing one arc only severely limits the fortunes you can obtain for buying leads and actually getting some from chests.

I would love to be able to do all the achievements and experience the new content, but it is not for me. I hope the increased difficulty will not keep me from soloing arc 1 anymore.

The flaw in what you note is that many will not even bother. Maybe some would love to pursue the leads, but why bother?

That is not great for most players, especially since the "I want lots of furnishing patterns" is not a significant overlap with the "I want hard content" group. Yes, some overlap exists, but even you don't like it, but only tolerate it. That is a bad trait to push in a game that relies on players to be involved and pay on an ongoing basis (Updates and ESO+).

katanagirl1

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

All this talk about the new content worries me (I’m on console).

I only do this content because furnishing leads are locked behind it. I don’t have a dedicated build for it because I have no interest in spending hours seeing how far I can go. I solo on my trials arcanist with all points in stamina and use shields to finish the first arc.

ZOS please put the leads on all chests. I have only one of some of them am some I have zero.

I am willing to do this content to a degree but doing one arc only severely limits the fortunes you can obtain for buying leads and actually getting some from chests.

I would love to be able to do all the achievements and experience the new content, but it is not for me. I hope the increased difficulty will not keep me from soloing arc 1 anymore.

The flaw in what you note is that many will not even bother. Maybe some would love to pursue the leads, but why bother?

That is not great for most players, especially since the "I want lots of furnishing patterns" is not a significant overlap with the "I want hard content" group. Yes, some overlap exists, but even you don't like it, but only tolerate it. That is a bad trait to push in a game that relies on players to be involved and pay on an ongoing basis (Updates and ESO+).

I’m usually up for doing any content to get leads, and have done so. It’s not something that I was to go hardcore to obtain, but I believe that there are others like me who feel it is worth doing to get what we want.

I don’t have to like it as long as I can get results. It’s also good to push yourself out of your comfort zones sometimes, like a sort of stretch goal.

EF321

Theignson wrote: »

The Werewolf: the problem is you cant see anything. I think this was not designed by a human, Had to be an AI. The whoel arena goes darka and its almost impossible to see mobs. Again, poor design.

I've been in non-serious run on vampire character, just for extra progress on new daily achievement. This is how it looks like if you pop vamp ulti

Necrotech_Master

James-Wayne wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

By ARC 3, you can't even block hits from Gothmau, you have to kite and dodge roll the entire fight. They already had one marauder that was certainly overtuned and I haven't even seen the new ones yet.

If you thought Gothmau was OP in Arc 3 you dont want to see the new ones in Arc 2 haha

Makes it 100 times worse when a brew fable hits you with a potion and you shrink down so your damage taken is 200% and your damage done is 0.

And this is in Arc 2. Its a joke to be honest. IA needs to be balanced for Solo because right now Solo or Duo there is no difference in enemy damage.

arc 2 marauders are kind of a joke, most of them i can even briefly face tank on a dps toon with moderate resistances, though i do have to make sure i block and dodge a lot (only gothmau and bittog are too much to face tank because of the bleeds)

arc 3 is where i feel like i need a tank to start handling the marauders confidently (my tank characters i run in the archive can face tank even gothmau at arc 3/4)

the thing i get killed by the most in archive is the dots from adds

CGPsaint

DenverRalphy wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If they keep one shotting you, perhaps consider slotting a damage shield in lieu of a dps skill.

IA is not kind to DPS load-out builds. Marauders make very short work of DPS glass cannons. Esoecially if you're goin solo with a companion.

I used Hardened Ward on my MagSorc and can say with a high degree of certainty that this advice doesn't hold up. I can block cast Hardened Ward and still get clapped by Gothmau. If ZOS insists on having Gothmau be overtuned, then they could at least make the melee range consistent, and make roll dodge work reliably when trying to avoid damage. All things considered, and in comparison to the other two original marauders, Gothmau just feels like someone fat-fingered the attack values during implementation.

Huh. I must be playin something different then. Cuz today I took my newly minted MagSorc CP1198 solo with a companion into IA, and right at the beginning of Arc 2 this happened...



And it wasn't much of a fight.

Arc 2? Really. Try it past Arc 4 and get back to me.

WynnGwynn

Dragonnord wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Whilst I was quite shocked to see a hit for over 32k on my death recap and annoyed because the Mino was nearly dead.....

I learned to beat Gothmau and I will learn to beat the Mino but a hit for 32k in Arc 2 does seem quite high imo! 😲

Are the 32k damage you received while blocking or the pure hit?

OP said that they got hit for 32K mid dodge

You don't get hit while dodging. That's what dodging is for. Imagine an action that is made to doge hits that doesn't dodge hits.
 

Actually there's plenty of examples in ESO where if you dodge you die. Z'maja would like a word.

MidniteOwl1913

I like the idea what ZOS creates harder content for those who really enjoy it. Soloable difficult content. What I don't appreciate is putting furnishing plans behind that content. I'm really not interested in IA. I find it visually tiring, boring, repetitive and needlessly difficult (why make everything mirror so I can't even *see* what I'm supposed to be hitting!).

If there were nothing in there that I wanted I would be all for the "never nerf" crowd. We all deserve content we enjoy. Just stop putting goodies in there.

The people would crave the content will do it anyway and the rest of us won't have to suffer.

Necrotech_Master

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

My companion won't even aggro him. Like they cast the skill and he just ignores it most of the time. Incredibly annoying.

ZOS_Kevin

Is that intended behavior with companion aggro?

Yes, Gothmau is constantly ignoring my tank companion and only very occasionally decides to notice that he is being taunted. And that is with me on a HA build. So, no one can say that I'm not directing Bastian towards Gothmau.

This Gothmau's behavior is very different from the reaction to a taunt from a companion of the other marauders. So, is this a bug of some sort?

the bug what i can tell is the companions do not aggro on him at all, or its like they cant, they occasionally tap him but frequently just stand around looking like they dont know what to do

it doesnt seem to matter if your companion is melee or ranged, they cant seem to aggro properly on gothmau

I did not notice Bastian standing and doing nothing. He actually actively trying to hit Gothmau. But with me constantly kiting I guess it's too much of a task for him. But he manages just fine with other Marauders (actually, can't say anything about WW one since I did not get a chance to see him yet). But OCCASIONALLY Bastian manages to keep Gothmau's attention. So, it's working at least sometimes.

if they have ranged they seem to do a little better, but their aggro is still all sorts of messed up with gothmau lol

No doubt about that. The question is if it's intentional, and, if not, will ZOS do anything about it.

i doubt its intentional lol

as a follow up i finally got a test with azander as a tank companion fighting gothmau tonight and he seemed to aggro properly on him

it seems to be almost companion specific which ones do or dont aggro on gothmau

i can confirm in the past week, isobel definitely still has problems aggroing, while azander seemed to be fine

the only differences in their setups is azander is using his class skill taunt (ranged taunt), and isobel is using the 1h/shield taunt (melee taunt)

Orbital78

My heavy attack builds definitely have less issues keeping the companions on them. There still are instances where they seem to derp out and do nothing.

My Arcanist is pretty rough on marauders though, it's hard to have them focused on the main big targets.

alpha_synuclein

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I like the idea what ZOS creates harder content for those who really enjoy it. Soloable difficult content. What I don't appreciate is putting furnishing plans behind that content. I'm really not interested in IA. I find it visually tiring, boring, repetitive and needlessly difficult (why make everything mirror so I can't even *see* what I'm supposed to be hitting!).

If there were nothing in there that I wanted I would be all for the "never nerf" crowd. We all deserve content we enjoy. Just stop putting goodies in there.

The people would crave the content will do it anyway and the rest of us won't have to suffer.

Those plans are sellable. You can purchase them from traders. The only archive furnishings you actually need to do archive for are the achievement related stuff.