Player Skill level

heng14rwb17_ESO

I have a feeling that the skill of players have been dropping a lot.
Are you able to complete a vet DLC dungeon HM with 4 DD?
Reply yes if u can or no if cannot.

Kisakee

C) It depends.

fizl101

Never tried, but suspect not. I'm used to a tank and 3 dd

Vaqual

What do we do if too few people respond with yes?Activate all sleeper agents and start operation "Red Scrib Jelly"?

Ezhh

Which dungeon?

Do the DD builds have to be strict meta PvE DD builds or are you allowed to be creative? For example, I often slotted a taunt on PvP damage dealer characters and tanked/stacked just fine, despite still having lower resists and hp than a real tank usually has.

Also why would this be the way to work out if people have skill or not?

Soarora

1T, 3D yes, but 4D? I know SCP can be done that way, so I could probably do that, but I’m not sure what other dlc HMs can be 4 DPS’d. Maybe MHK?
Skill levels aren’t really dropping, unless you consider being an arcanist dps main a skill drop since its harder to go back to a regular DPS rotation. The problem is ZOS trying to raise the floor without giving people the tools to become better at the game. Hard to get people to improve when they don’t want to, and going from “any build works in overland” to “your build doesn’t work for this content” is a shock to people.

valenwood_vegan

Hmm, never tried, always had a tank or at least semi-tank along. Also probably depends on the dungeon? Did I fail the test???

laniakea_0

sorry, why would you even approach those without a full party?

Shara_Wynn

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a feeling that the skill of players have been dropping a lot.
Are you able to complete a vet DLC dungeon HM with 4 DD?
Reply yes if u can or no if cannot.

Never tried. Not ever going to try either. I can just about manage a normal trial and DLC dungeon!

tomofhyrule

Wait. So the 'test of skill' in this game is to... not parse because the boss keeps wandering out of your placed AoEs? And then stop parsing to rez someone since the later dungeons are really being good at adding mechanics that are specific to certain roles, like heal checks due to heal absorb or tank checks due to enrages? And only DPS are good at this game, so no matter how good of a support player you are it doesn't matter if you can't parse 110k+?

Sure Jan.

I guess that means that all of my dungeon trifectas don't mean squat since I did the horrible thing of 1T3D or 1T1H2D for all of them. And yes, while sometimes the healer was a DPS hybrid, the the tank was always a full tank since that was me and I don't DPS.

MEBengalsFan2001

Soarora wrote: »

1T, 3D yes, but 4D? I know SCP can be done that way, so I could probably do that, but I’m not sure what other dlc HMs can be 4 DPS’d. Maybe MHK?
Skill levels aren’t really dropping, unless you consider being an arcanist dps main a skill drop since its harder to go back to a regular DPS rotation. The problem is ZOS trying to raise the floor without giving people the tools to become better at the game. Hard to get people to improve when they don’t want to, and going from “any build works in overland” to “your build doesn’t work for this content” is a shock to people.

Other mmo simply have gear that improve stats whereas eso what gear you use, food/drink consumed, stat allocation and skills used, and rotation all determine a player ability to produce in this game. This goes for pve and pvp. It goes by role as well. It’s quite different compared to other mmo that simply offer better gear with better stats based on the role played and than it about skill used and rotation. Adding so many more elements is where eso is complex. But the reality is you have deadly strike and req and off you go to max out your damage.

El_Borracho

Depends on the dungeon. Off the top of my head, haven't been able to do it in Graven Deep.

RexyCat

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a feeling that the skill of players have been dropping a lot.
Are you able to complete a vet DLC dungeon HM with 4 DD?
Reply yes if u can or no if cannot.

So you want to command us what to respond with only a "yes" or "no"? No deeper analysis to what work and what doesn't work and how does even skill factor in when the only focus is on damage dealers?

Like everything it depends on how well people work together as a random group will most likely also compose of player with different experience, different sets and different champion point allocation etc.

A group which know each other and have planned how to do things will have less issues and also be more capable to manage with only doing damage (damage dealers), then a group that will have to figure out what they are supposed to do and when. If you have run the same dungeon 10 times you will most likely feel that the rest in group are "unskilled" or slow at finish up dungeon compared to first and second time doing a dungeon (doesn't matter if it is vet HM or normal).

The base composition of group is healer for buff, debuff and healing, tank for focus mobs in on place and to reduce damage taken for the rest of group (especially from boss(es) that can hit hard, but again this only means that group also need to coordinate as a group and not just rush things.

Most in this game are after all based on passives (debuff/buff), set that that procs and champion points that have conditions that interact with gear or skill usage. So your argument about "skill" is really an argument who have finished all CP that are necessary to get set procs to work optimal and who have run the same dungeon so many times that they are getting bored or annoyed that other isn't on the same level for having maxed out all that can be maxed out.

Soarora

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

1T, 3D yes, but 4D? I know SCP can be done that way, so I could probably do that, but I’m not sure what other dlc HMs can be 4 DPS’d. Maybe MHK?
Skill levels aren’t really dropping, unless you consider being an arcanist dps main a skill drop since its harder to go back to a regular DPS rotation. The problem is ZOS trying to raise the floor without giving people the tools to become better at the game. Hard to get people to improve when they don’t want to, and going from “any build works in overland” to “your build doesn’t work for this content” is a shock to people.

Other mmo simply have gear that improve stats whereas eso what gear you use, food/drink consumed, stat allocation and skills used, and rotation all determine a player ability to produce in this game. This goes for pve and pvp. It goes by role as well. It’s quite different compared to other mmo that simply offer better gear with better stats based on the role played and than it about skill used and rotation. Adding so many more elements is where eso is complex. But the reality is you have deadly strike and req and off you go to max out your damage.

Yes. I really think it’d go a long way if ZOS would either give better build suggestions or have in-game links to content creators who are known for having good builds that are well explained. Most sets are useless and should be buffed, but that doesn’t fix the overwhelm of so many options, few working. Once you know the basics, its far less overwhelming. But ZOS doesn’t teach the basics. ZOS also needs to clarify “play how you want” because it does not mean what many people think it means.

Orbital78

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a feeling that the skill of players have been dropping a lot.
Are you able to complete a vet DLC dungeon HM with 4 DD?
Reply yes if u can or no if cannot.

Vet dlc hm can be done 3dd if the tank and dd can handle it, but I don't think no tank will work.

sarahthes

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a feeling that the skill of players have been dropping a lot.
Are you able to complete a vet DLC dungeon HM with 4 DD?
Reply yes if u can or no if cannot.

Probably depends on the dungeon. Older dlc dungeons shouldn't be a problem. Newer ones though? You'd need to have very specialized burst setups, and given the health of the bosses I don't know that any can be killed in a single acuity window.

The burst videos I have watched usually have a tank so that someone is holding *** still, no random adds spank a DD, and to provide major courage and a second buff (or debuff). Usually one of the dds is in a slayer set also.

I would argue that the true skill is in figuring out the right comp to burst the bosses down and skip mechanics, not just arbitrarily saying you need 4 DDs.

Stafford197

I disagree. Content is easier than ever due to power creep overtime. Also there are fewer new players coming in to an old game like ESO, which increases the chances of you grouping up with more experienced players.

If we’re talking about harder stuff like trials / trifectas / scorepushing… well there is almost zero incentive to care about endgame PvE or PvP in this game. Those crowds died off due to many years of terrible balance changes.

It’s easier to clear things these days, but way harder to actually group for them in the first place.

Dax_Draconis

I've never tried and don't ever plan to.

Why didn't you make a poll?

Icy_Waffles

Completely agree. Most people seem to be afraid of veteran dungeons and it confuses me as I see them as a natural progression of the game- many people who play really are casual in their approach

sarahthes

Stafford197 wrote: »

I disagree. Content is easier than ever due to power creep overtime. Also there are fewer new players coming in to an old game like ESO, which increases the chances of you grouping up with more experienced players.

If we’re talking about harder stuff like trials / trifectas / scorepushing… well there is almost zero incentive to care about endgame PvE or PvP in this game. Those crowds died off due to many years of terrible balance changes.

It’s easier to clear things these days, but way harder to actually group for them in the first place.

Almost everyone I know who quit around Update 35 is back playing again.

There's also a lot of newer players (joined in the past 1-2 years) involved in endgame.

I think endgame is sort of thriving right now, to be honest.

Stafford197

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I disagree. Content is easier than ever due to power creep overtime. Also there are fewer new players coming in to an old game like ESO, which increases the chances of you grouping up with more experienced players.

If we’re talking about harder stuff like trials / trifectas / scorepushing… well there is almost zero incentive to care about endgame PvE or PvP in this game. Those crowds died off due to many years of terrible balance changes.

It’s easier to clear things these days, but way harder to actually group for them in the first place.

Almost everyone I know who quit around Update 35 is back playing again.

There's also a lot of newer players (joined in the past 1-2 years) involved in endgame.

I think endgame is sort of thriving right now, to be honest.

We must be playing different games.

sarahthes

Stafford197 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I disagree. Content is easier than ever due to power creep overtime. Also there are fewer new players coming in to an old game like ESO, which increases the chances of you grouping up with more experienced players.

If we’re talking about harder stuff like trials / trifectas / scorepushing… well there is almost zero incentive to care about endgame PvE or PvP in this game. Those crowds died off due to many years of terrible balance changes.

It’s easier to clear things these days, but way harder to actually group for them in the first place.

Almost everyone I know who quit around Update 35 is back playing again.

There's also a lot of newer players (joined in the past 1-2 years) involved in endgame.

I think endgame is sort of thriving right now, to be honest.

We must be playing different games.

I'm on PC NA. So it might very well be server specific.

Stafford197

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I disagree. Content is easier than ever due to power creep overtime. Also there are fewer new players coming in to an old game like ESO, which increases the chances of you grouping up with more experienced players.

If we’re talking about harder stuff like trials / trifectas / scorepushing… well there is almost zero incentive to care about endgame PvE or PvP in this game. Those crowds died off due to many years of terrible balance changes.

It’s easier to clear things these days, but way harder to actually group for them in the first place.

Almost everyone I know who quit around Update 35 is back playing again.

There's also a lot of newer players (joined in the past 1-2 years) involved in endgame.

I think endgame is sort of thriving right now, to be honest.

We must be playing different games.

I'm on PC NA. So it might very well be server specific.

I play on PS EU/NA. Yes that could be the case, I do hope things get better but 2024 is already slated to be a rough year for this game. Guess we will see!

sarahthes

Stafford197 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I disagree. Content is easier than ever due to power creep overtime. Also there are fewer new players coming in to an old game like ESO, which increases the chances of you grouping up with more experienced players.

If we’re talking about harder stuff like trials / trifectas / scorepushing… well there is almost zero incentive to care about endgame PvE or PvP in this game. Those crowds died off due to many years of terrible balance changes.

It’s easier to clear things these days, but way harder to actually group for them in the first place.

Almost everyone I know who quit around Update 35 is back playing again.

There's also a lot of newer players (joined in the past 1-2 years) involved in endgame.

I think endgame is sort of thriving right now, to be honest.

We must be playing different games.

I'm on PC NA. So it might very well be server specific.

I play on PS EU/NA. Yes that could be the case, I do hope things get better but 2024 is already slated to be a rough year for this game. Guess we will see!

I didn't realize there were still people raiding on console. Pretty sure I've helped half their pop farm gear on PC in the past 18 months (I think a lot of console endgame has transferred to PC, and it's maybe accelerated since Update 35).

vsrs_au

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a feeling that the skill of players have been dropping a lot.
Are you able to complete a vet DLC dungeon HM with 4 DD?
Reply yes if u can or no if cannot.

yes if u can or no if cannot

Stafford197

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I disagree. Content is easier than ever due to power creep overtime. Also there are fewer new players coming in to an old game like ESO, which increases the chances of you grouping up with more experienced players.

If we’re talking about harder stuff like trials / trifectas / scorepushing… well there is almost zero incentive to care about endgame PvE or PvP in this game. Those crowds died off due to many years of terrible balance changes.

It’s easier to clear things these days, but way harder to actually group for them in the first place.

Almost everyone I know who quit around Update 35 is back playing again.

There's also a lot of newer players (joined in the past 1-2 years) involved in endgame.

I think endgame is sort of thriving right now, to be honest.

We must be playing different games.

I'm on PC NA. So it might very well be server specific.

I play on PS EU/NA. Yes that could be the case, I do hope things get better but 2024 is already slated to be a rough year for this game. Guess we will see!

I didn't realize there were still people raiding on console. Pretty sure I've helped half their pop farm gear on PC in the past 18 months (I think a lot of console endgame has transferred to PC, and it's maybe accelerated since Update 35).

That is very true! I noticed this as well. Personally I could never make the swap to PC because I played the whole game instead of just raiding, so I’d miss my houses, achievements, etc.

Lumsdenml

Complete Vet DLC Dungeon HM? Yes. With 4 DD? No. Considering the more recent dungeons ramped up difficulty to reflect power creep and hard heal checks, this could not be done my 90% of the people who could do the same dungeon with 2DPS, 1Tank and 1 Healer....

Lumsdenml

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a feeling that the skill of players have been dropping a lot.
Are you able to complete a vet DLC dungeon HM with 4 DD?
Reply yes if u can or no if cannot.

Soooo... can you?

Bradyfjord

vsrs_au wrote: »

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a feeling that the skill of players have been dropping a lot.
Are you able to complete a vet DLC dungeon HM with 4 DD?
Reply yes if u can or no if cannot.

yes if u can or no if cannot

You win the forums today.

Rkindaleft

Soarora wrote: »

1T, 3D yes, but 4D? I know SCP can be done that way, so I could probably do that, but I’m not sure what other dlc HMs can be 4 DPS’d. Maybe MHK?
Skill levels aren’t really dropping, unless you consider being an arcanist dps main a skill drop since its harder to go back to a regular DPS rotation. The problem is ZOS trying to raise the floor without giving people the tools to become better at the game. Hard to get people to improve when they don’t want to, and going from “any build works in overland” to “your build doesn’t work for this content” is a shock to people.

I'm wondering if OP means just clearing it or doing it no death.

If you're talking about just clearing it you can do several of the HMs like this but I don't think anything released in the last 3 years-ish would be attainable without hybrid setups at minimum. I'd like to see someone attempt to do Coral Aerie or do the heal check in Bal Sunnar with 4 DD (even if they ever got that far.) Something like Falkreath Hold however is extremely easy to do with 4 DD because with high enough damage you just push the boss to each Atronach phase before he does any other mech except the shouts.

About a year ago my friends and I decided to do this for fun and we've done pretty much everything before Wrathstone as 4 DD, but its not like we got the trifecta or did it with no deaths, ones that tanks are important for like Fang Lair took a significant amount of time to pull off without drastically changing setups and it's obviously not something you'd be able to do with a pug finder group.

Soarora

Rkindaleft wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

1T, 3D yes, but 4D? I know SCP can be done that way, so I could probably do that, but I’m not sure what other dlc HMs can be 4 DPS’d. Maybe MHK?
Skill levels aren’t really dropping, unless you consider being an arcanist dps main a skill drop since its harder to go back to a regular DPS rotation. The problem is ZOS trying to raise the floor without giving people the tools to become better at the game. Hard to get people to improve when they don’t want to, and going from “any build works in overland” to “your build doesn’t work for this content” is a shock to people.

I'm wondering if OP means just clearing it or doing it no death.

If you're talking about just clearing it you can do several of the HMs like this but I don't think anything released in the last 3 years-ish would be attainable without hybrid setups at minimum. I'd like to see someone attempt to do Coral Aerie or do the heal check in Bal Sunnar with 4 DD (even if they ever got that far.) Something like Falkreath Hold however is extremely easy to do with 4 DD because with high enough damage you just push the boss to each Atronach phase before he does any other mech except the shouts.

About a year ago my friends and I decided to do this for fun and we've done pretty much everything before Wrathstone as 4 DD, but its not like we got the trifecta or did it with no deaths, ones that tanks are important for like Fang Lair took a significant amount of time to pull off without drastically changing setups and it's obviously not something you'd be able to do with a pug finder group.

Yeah, I certainly don't think newer dungeons are possible to do with 4 DPS. Coral Aerie you can burn through a lot, but I'm not convinced anyone can burn it fast enough to skip all the mechanics. Certainly can burn fast enough to skip some of them, but not all the ones that'll kill you...