The amount of fake tanks and fake healers is ridiculous

Amottica

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why

Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.

There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.

Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.

It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.

How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?

See above "There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously." There ARE terrible players in this game.

A fake role in this game is done to gain an advantage in the PUG queue. Fake healers and tanks are a thing because you get a group faster - instantly usually in fact. Queuing as DPS means you have a 10 minute wait on average. Faking DPS to get in a group slower would be brain-dead level stupid.

Faking roles is all about jumping to the front of the queue. This is why I don't buy the pathetic "fake DPS" red herrings many of you think is a good counter argument to rationalize being a lying queue jumper.

I'm not "queue jumping". I'm just saying that people who queue as dds and don't even try to do meaningful dps (at least more than an average healer) aren't really dds, they're just people who are either clueless or looking for a free carry. Dd means damage dealer, not just someone who's not a healer nor a tank.
These people are the reason why healers and tanks try to avoid solo queues. It is just not fun to play when you get 2 of those.
And I find it really weird that dds are almost never judged the way support players are.

I've tanked for groups where literally everyone was dying repeatedly and doing dookie damage. When we got on party, I actually learned that one of the DDs was an older woman (sounded old enough to be my mom). I'm patient as hell so I stuck with them and we eventually cleared that vet dungeon. It's not fun sometimes but in order for people to advance in this game, the more experienced players must be willing to carry groups and teach others. If people want to be selfish, they shouldn't play an MMORPG.

I look at it as paying it forward. People helped me, boy did I need help at first. ESO is my first ever video game (it's my retirement hobby) and I had a lot to learn. But more experienced players took time and helped me. I appreciated it then and now I try to do the same for others.

Guilds are great for this. It is a much better place for learning than a random group as not all are that patient. In fact, that is how I got into tanking long ago. I started tanking to help guild members get comfortable with healing. I had basically learned how to grab a group of trash and tank bosses by seeing how tanks did it right and how some did it very wrong.

MidniteOwl1913

Dawnblade wrote: »

Living_Tribunal wrote: »

After this event I'm changing my tune. I ran bloodroot forge last night where we all kept dieing. I asked if we had a tank or a healer, the tank proceeded to lose his mind in the chat and blamed us for not knowing the mechanics. Eventually he go do tired of dieing and left. we queued a new tank. If you're going to tank, just slot a taunt and hold the bbeg. Usually I don't notice it too much, I can handle my own pretty well, but this event has brought out a lot of.... interesting....people.

LOL yeah there are some real ignoramuses out there.

I had a fake tank' in FG1 of all places the other day, 2K CP, loaded in and took off running before everyone else was even fully loaded into the dungeon.

The rest of us were on lowbies, and before we could take two steps we were being attacked by all the trash the 'tank' ran through (side note, I hate ESO aggro where you can get it even if you haven't taken a single action).

As we killed off the trash together and quickly moved forward, the fake 'tank' died to the first boss.

We all laughed at the idiot, then voted to kick the idiot, then proceeded to finish without a tank.

Yeah, mostly I'm ambivalent on speed runs. I'm the healer, if most of the group is speed running I run along heal, it's okay. People take their time quest, whatever, it's okay I take my time and heal. But the kind of speed runner you are talking about I really hate. So they run from one boss to another dragging an ever-increasing trash mob behind them. It's hard for me to heal the other players and run fast enough to keep up, but most of the time I do. Lately it's been happening in Falkreath. They run from the first door after the mamouth to Cernunnon thru the minotaurs and all the fire bombers and even if I manage to keep the other two players alive through that I'm out of resources by the time I get to boss...

I think that just dying and then being pulled along by joining encounter might be the best option. And the speed runner is one selfish git for doing this to the rest of us without asking. And it mostly does seem to be the "tank" role. Since I'm the healer I don't see fake healers.

ForzaRammer

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

tmbrinks

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

I used to queue as a tank. Did BCII. I think we had to kill upwards of 15 daedroth to get the boss down low enough that there wouldn't be 10+ on me before boss died.

"Fake DD" is just as real. When I can simply spam wall of elements (on a heal or tank build) and end up doing 30%+ of the group's AoE dps, they are absolutely a "Fake DD", and should not be queuing for vet content. It is not difficult to learn a basic rotation and know to wear 2 5-pc sets (at a minimum) before queuing for vet content. You don't have to LA weave, you don't have to use a dynamic rotation. They don't have to be BiS sets, they can be crafted Julianos/Seducer. The minimum ask is that you at least try as a DPS...

maxjapank

tmbrinks wrote: »

I used to queue as a tank. Did BCII. I think we had to kill upwards of 15 daedroth to get the boss down low enough that there wouldn't be 10+ on me before boss died.

While 15 daedroths is quite a lot, this particular fight was well thought out in my opinion. It's all about mechanics. It's not a dps race. In fact, I remember in the beginning, we often had to instruct new players to kill all daedroth until the boss was at 30%. Then be sure to not kill the boss until at least 4 daedroth had spawned. And when we defeated the encounter, it felt good.

Overtime this fight became too easy. Players had so much dps that mechanics were forgotten. I personally prefer fights based on mechanics.

tmbrinks

maxjapank wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I used to queue as a tank. Did BCII. I think we had to kill upwards of 15 daedroth to get the boss down low enough that there wouldn't be 10+ on me before boss died.

While 15 daedroths is quite a lot, this particular fight was well thought out in my opinion. It's all about mechanics. It's not a dps race. In fact, I remember in the beginning, we often had to instruct new players to kill all daedroth until the boss was at 30%. Then be sure to not kill the boss until at least 4 daedroth had spawned. And when we defeated the encounter, it felt good.

Overtime this fight became too easy. Players had so much dps that mechanics were forgotten. I personally prefer fights based on mechanics.

I've no arguments with that, but this is in the last few patches, where any level of competency from the DPS would require them to actually hold some damage to get 3 daedroths out.

These weren't players that "forgot" mechanics. They simply did not do any damage. Literal LA spam, the occasional acid spray. Nothing else.

AvalonRanger

UnabashedlyHonest wrote:

That's because fake tanking and fake healing aren't real problems. This issue is so minor compared to all the other actual bugs and design flaws happening in ESO right now it doesn't make any sense to even bring up this issue.

Bugs and design flaws should be the priority fixes going on right now.

"Bugs and design flaws should be the priority fixes going on right now"

I agree part of them.

There're too many of bad UI design and strange unexpected death every where in the ESO.
Especially in veteran mode dungeon. We can't find out what is lethal damage in the normal mode.
Because some of lethal attack of boss acting is not lethal in the normal mode dungeon.
That will NOT be train contents for the veteran mode. Basically say, the game design of this game
doesn't consider "basis" to define decent rule of combat design. I think developer is very unexperienced
game creators.

Moreover, lack of art education of game designers is also problem. There're many of strange UI design
everywhere in this game. For example, the flower shape warning mark of "Coral Aerie" group dungeon.
It doesn't look like "warning sign". At least it's not global standard common warning sign like the "biohazard mark"
or " nuclear power sign". It should be "cross hair mark of rifle scope", then everyone can understand it as
"warning sign" which means that "you're aimed, so prepare to defend oneself".

Xarc

this is a real problem that Zos should take care.

A tank not taunting with a boss running after you in dlc dungeon (which is comparable to vet vanilla dungeon), wtf ?
You cant dps the boss when he's moving like that

this is not fun for anybody

MidniteOwl1913

tmbrinks wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I used to queue as a tank. Did BCII. I think we had to kill upwards of 15 daedroth to get the boss down low enough that there wouldn't be 10+ on me before boss died.

While 15 daedroths is quite a lot, this particular fight was well thought out in my opinion. It's all about mechanics. It's not a dps race. In fact, I remember in the beginning, we often had to instruct new players to kill all daedroth until the boss was at 30%. Then be sure to not kill the boss until at least 4 daedroth had spawned. And when we defeated the encounter, it felt good.

Overtime this fight became too easy. Players had so much dps that mechanics were forgotten. I personally prefer fights based on mechanics.

I've no arguments with that, but this is in the last few patches, where any level of competency from the DPS would require them to actually hold some damage to get 3 daedroths out.

These weren't players that "forgot" mechanics. They simply did not do any damage. Literal LA spam, the occasional acid spray. Nothing else.

Well 2 daedroth spawn every 45 secs that the boss is alive, trust me the room will eventually fill up with daedroth. I was the healer the tank and DPS weren't even hitting the boss anymore. I'm not even sure they could get near him... I gave up healing thinking we could wipe and I'd explain the mechanic, but while I was typing everyone else bailed... I got a pity green transmute geode from it for being the last one left (?) until then I didn't even know such a thing existed...

maxjapank

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I used to queue as a tank. Did BCII. I think we had to kill upwards of 15 daedroth to get the boss down low enough that there wouldn't be 10+ on me before boss died.

While 15 daedroths is quite a lot, this particular fight was well thought out in my opinion. It's all about mechanics. It's not a dps race. In fact, I remember in the beginning, we often had to instruct new players to kill all daedroth until the boss was at 30%. Then be sure to not kill the boss until at least 4 daedroth had spawned. And when we defeated the encounter, it felt good.

Overtime this fight became too easy. Players had so much dps that mechanics were forgotten. I personally prefer fights based on mechanics.

I've no arguments with that, but this is in the last few patches, where any level of competency from the DPS would require them to actually hold some damage to get 3 daedroths out.

These weren't players that "forgot" mechanics. They simply did not do any damage. Literal LA spam, the occasional acid spray. Nothing else.

Well 2 daedroth spawn every 45 secs that the boss is alive, trust me the room will eventually fill up with daedroth. I was the healer the tank and DPS weren't even hitting the boss anymore. I'm not even sure they could get near him... I gave up healing thinking we could wipe and I'd explain the mechanic, but while I was typing everyone else bailed... I got a pity green transmute geode from it for being the last one left (?) until then I didn't even know such a thing existed...

Yeah. Years ago, this could be quite a challenge if dps was low. You could end up having too many Daedroth alive. I've not had a problem so much recently. It's always been best to tank the deadroth wherever the boss is so that you can use splash damage. Of course, years ago, I also read a post from someone saying that if all your doing is healing as a healer, then you're doing it wrong. (Not saying this about you) But my whole perspective was blow away and I've always been a healer/dps ever since. Using Barrier can also allow you to go complete dps cause the shield is like 45k.

Iselin

maxjapank wrote: »

Using Barrier can also allow you to go complete dps cause the shield is like 45k.

I do this with both my sorc and templar healers. Barrier also lasts up to 30 seconds - plenty of time to go full DPS for a good while. I also slot the "Oh crap!" heal on both bars just in case

PrimusTiberius

Tried running Cauldron (N) in a PUG this weekend and the tank was a werewolf with no taunts, we barely got past the mini-bosses but continuously wiped with the main boss, after a while I just ended up leaving. What a waist of time and annoying to say the least.

Amottica

tmbrinks wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I used to queue as a tank. Did BCII. I think we had to kill upwards of 15 daedroth to get the boss down low enough that there wouldn't be 10+ on me before boss died.

While 15 daedroths is quite a lot, this particular fight was well thought out in my opinion. It's all about mechanics. It's not a dps race. In fact, I remember in the beginning, we often had to instruct new players to kill all daedroth until the boss was at 30%. Then be sure to not kill the boss until at least 4 daedroth had spawned. And when we defeated the encounter, it felt good.

Overtime this fight became too easy. Players had so much dps that mechanics were forgotten. I personally prefer fights based on mechanics.

I've no arguments with that, but this is in the last few patches, where any level of competency from the DPS would require them to actually hold some damage to get 3 daedroths out.

These weren't players that "forgot" mechanics. They simply did not do any damage. Literal LA spam, the occasional acid spray. Nothing else.

and such low DPS is a big reason why we have fake tanks. Most I know refuse to queue solo for that specific reason.

ruengdet2515

Not matter fake or not I just need fast run for nDUN. and dont want to run with CP<1000

Molydeus

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

tmbrinks

Molydeus wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

By that definition, if I queue on my templar with purifying light, since it gives a heal after it finishes, I'm just a "bad" healer, and not "fake". Good to know.

I've been running quite a few dungeons due to the event. Normal, I couldn't care less... But only had 1 "fake" tank on one vet run. Turns out they were a fake dps too, as I looked at my logs afterwards and they were doing the least damage of the 4. So, it wasn't even your "high DPS elitist skipping the line..."

It is scary how many times people die to the exact same mechanic over, or expecting somebody else to bail them out over and over. Pugged Fang Lair on normal 6 times yesterday.

But you can't even say something like "hide behind the yellow wall" or "go to the glowing circles" during mechanics to teach as you'll get accosted as being a "gatekeeper", an "elitist", or worse.

When the dps actually care about fulfilling their role and actually trying to learn, then we can do something about "fake roles"... but expectations need to go both ways. Too many DPS expect perfect tanking and healing while they skate by being substandard, and claim anything other than flawless support is "fake". The same standard should apply to the dps. Afterall, you have far less to worry about.

Anony_Mouse

Molydeus wrote: »

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

What about a DPS that queues with a sword/shield, taunt and inner rage slotted and running around doing 5k damage on boss fights? Excuse being " I am new to ESO"

I would say that qualifies as a fake dps, an di have met my fair share of this kind of player especially dring this Undaunted event so far

Diundriel

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

What about a DPS that queues with a sword/shield, taunt and inner rage slotted and running around doing 5k damage on boss fights? Excuse being " I am new to ESO"

I would say that qualifies as a fake dps, an di have met my fair share of this kind of player especially dring this Undaunted event so far

100% agree there are much more fake dps or people with such low dps that a support build has more if you weave light attacks ...

N00BxV1

It is funny how people are so against fake tanks but are usually okay with fake healers and fake dps...

I solo queue for dungeons (usually veteran) as a tank. And I see plenty of fake healers even in vet DLC dungeons using a bow or other dps weapons, not healing anyone, and dying in every single aoe possible. Simply slotting a single burst heal does not make someone a healer. I can usually tell right from the start if someone is a fake healer just by watching other people's health slowly trickle down and sometimes causing them to die...

I also see plenty of "fake" dps with 30k health that are equipped with s&b and using Puncture as a spammable. Or using Inner Beast thinking it's a dps skill, because for some reason zos thought it was a good idea to put a personal damage buff on a taunt, and then complain because they're getting all the aggro and the tank isn't doing their job...

I would also like to give a very special shout-out to the people that are in PVP builds in vet DLC dungeons, doing only 10k dps, that expect to be carried by PVE'ers who actually build for the PVE content...

If you're gonna skip line in the dungeon queue by queuing as a fake role, then just do it in your own pre-made group. Because most of the time other random people are expecting you to actually play the role that you queued for.

It's not hard. Just don't be "that" guy.

Ragnarok0130

ruengdet2515 wrote: »

Not matter fake or not I just need fast run for nDUN. and dont want to run with CP<1000

You need to have realistic expectations. If you’re queuing in a random normal your’e generally getting under players far below CP1000 because that’s who normal dungeons are aimed at. Expecting otherwise is akin to trying to find a date at a high school and getting angry that everyone is under age.

I think you’re expectation regarding CP would be more likely met in a random vet but then you’re not getting a speed run.

Diundriel

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

ruengdet2515 wrote: »

Not matter fake or not I just need fast run for nDUN. and dont want to run with CP<1000

You need to have realistic expectations. If you’re queuing in a random normal your’e generally getting under players far below CP1000 because that’s who normal dungeons are aimed at. Expecting otherwise is akin to trying to find a date at a high school and getting angry that everyone is under age.

I think you’re expectation regarding CP would be more likely met in a random vet but then you’re not getting a speed run.

thanks to their transmute stone crystals you have people who wanna do fast normal dungeons to grind them on all their chars^^ probably making those tradable would help .... and reduce numbers of people grinding normal dungeons...

Anony_Mouse

Diundriel wrote: »

100% agree there are much more fake dps or people with such low dps that a support build has more if you weave light attacks ...

dont even need to light attack weave to out-dps the fake dps.

I run a hybrid heal/dps setup for most dungeons so I can keep the tank alive in heavy fights, give the dps a boost if needed and help with damage. My CP are slotted between healing (mostly) and damage oriented blue stars... I easily do 40% of the damage on most dungeons, with the tank doing the same... that leaves very little for the dps. It is rare to run into dps who carry their own weight in terms of damage through a pug dungeon, whether that is FG 1 or vDepths of Malatar

this comes back around to the lack of any decent tutorials in the game teaching players how to play efficiently

ForzaRammer

Molydeus wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

You want me to acknowledge the problems you face, which I did already.
And when i bring up the problems i encounter, you turn it down.
That's not bias, that's asking to be treated fairly.

10-15% the dd i get from que, are indifferent or worse compare to a companion.
A human DD that's not even clearly better than a bot, is definitely a fake.

Sarannah

Low DPS is the result of fake tanks, as players can't learn their role anymore. We are talking about normal dungeons, where players still need to learn groupplay and how their role functions. Which they can't do now, because many some idiots use those to speedrun for rewards!

This event I have done(tanked) over 40 normal dungeons so far, and only three groups had low DPS. One of those groups didn't improve, but it was a new dungeon so maybe mechanics had something to do with it. Another had low DPS on the first boss, and when we were on the third boss, the DPS was already high(people learn their roles quickly if you let them). And I had a group with ok'ish DPS, which wasn't bad but not good either.

To me it seems those that complain about bad/fake DPS in their groups, are the ones responsible for it. And when you are the cause, it is going to keep happening to you!

svendf

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

That's because fake tanking and fake healing aren't real problems. This issue is so minor compared to all the other actual bugs and design flaws happening in ESO right now it doesn't make any sense to even bring up this issue.

Bugs and design flaws should be the priority fixes going on right now.

You are absolutely right, there. Lets get rid of one of the major design issues, by locking roles.

BlueRaven

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

You want me to acknowledge the problems you face, which I did already.
And when i bring up the problems i encounter, you turn it down.
That's not bias, that's asking to be treated fairly.

10-15% the dd i get from que, are indifferent or worse compare to a companion.
A human DD that's not even clearly better than a bot, is definitely a fake.

Fake dps is not a real thing. Bad dps is and is an entirely different problem.

A person doing low dps in a dps role is not “faking” anything. They are just not good at their role.

Fake tanks and healers are people who queue for those rolls, who “know” what those roles require, and have zero desire to fulfill it.

No one is taking a dps role as a “shortcut” to getting a dungeon run in quickly. Fake tanks and healers are.

ForzaRammer

BlueRaven wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

You want me to acknowledge the problems you face, which I did already.
And when i bring up the problems i encounter, you turn it down.
That's not bias, that's asking to be treated fairly.

10-15% the dd i get from que, are indifferent or worse compare to a companion.
A human DD that's not even clearly better than a bot, is definitely a fake.

Fake dps is not a real thing. Bad dps is and is an entirely different problem.

A person doing low dps in a dps role is not “faking” anything. They are just not good at their role.

Fake tanks and healers are people who queue for those rolls, who “know” what those roles require, and have zero desire to fulfill it.

No one is taking a dps role as a “shortcut” to getting a dungeon run in quickly. Fake tanks and healers are.

It’s the ‘everyone is a dd’ again. I am stating it yet again why it is unreasonable.

1. That’s your definition, not a universally accepted standard
2. Such definition is unfair to support players. All taunt do damage, if a tank has to taunt, he has to do damage. Then tank is a subset of DD
3. Your idea on distribution of responsibility is simply giving next to nothing to the DD and way too much to the tank

PrincessOfThieves

ForzaRammer wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

You want me to acknowledge the problems you face, which I did already.
And when i bring up the problems i encounter, you turn it down.
That's not bias, that's asking to be treated fairly.

10-15% the dd i get from que, are indifferent or worse compare to a companion.
A human DD that's not even clearly better than a bot, is definitely a fake.

Fake dps is not a real thing. Bad dps is and is an entirely different problem.

A person doing low dps in a dps role is not “faking” anything. They are just not good at their role.

Fake tanks and healers are people who queue for those rolls, who “know” what those roles require, and have zero desire to fulfill it.

No one is taking a dps role as a “shortcut” to getting a dungeon run in quickly. Fake tanks and healers are.

It’s the ‘everyone is a dd’ again. I am stating it yet again why it is unreasonable.

1. That’s your definition, not a universally accepted standard
2. Such definition is unfair to support players. All taunt do damage, if a tank has to taunt, he has to do damage. Then tank is a subset of DD
3. Your idea on distribution of responsibility is simply giving next to nothing to the DD and way too much to the tank

Exactly!
"Just doing any amount of damage" doesn't make someone a dd. Healers and tanks also deal damage while healing or tanking. A person who's wearing heavy armor and has a lot of health is not a tank if they don't have a taunt, same with "healers" who barely cast any heals. Then why there shouldn't be any standarts for dps? I'm not talking trial guild standarts, just the basics. For example, someone with 52k health who's spamming light/heavy attacks and warden heal (real example from vet dlc dungeon) is not a damage dealer, they're as fake as tanks with no taunts and having a longer queue doesn't change that.

AvalonRanger

N00BxV1 wrote: »

It is funny how people are so against fake tanks but are usually okay with fake healers and fake dps...

Being fake healer and fake DPS(damage is lower than pure tank) is also terrible like fake tank actually.
Totally not good at all. Especially, If healer is fake, pure DPS will be dead so easily.

But at least, if tank is true tough guy, then can kill the boss by solo in most of normal dungeon.
Maybe that is reason why people keep blaming fake tank.

However, I hate those irresponsible players as tank mainly. One day, I was in "Earthen root Enclave".
Everyone were fake except me. So, everyone is useless and die tremendous times except me.
So tank became solo survivor, and slayed boss with extremely long time. I really hate over 1K useless
players. CP-1K is not beginner anymore.

I really wanted to do "rage quit" at that time. Well, I don't need super canon DPS.
But, I hate uncooperative players.

BlueRaven

ForzaRammer wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.

The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)

You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"

People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...

Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...

If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.

It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.

The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.

The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.

I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.

I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.

W/e man, i have no issues with how you treat fake tank.

My issue with you is that you (and people like you) don’t treat fake DD the same way you treat fake tanks.

You don’t even acknowledge the problems real tanks (like me) encounter, which is more prevalent than the problem (fake tank) you encounter.

Just selective bias and double standard.

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

You want me to acknowledge the problems you face, which I did already.
And when i bring up the problems i encounter, you turn it down.
That's not bias, that's asking to be treated fairly.

10-15% the dd i get from que, are indifferent or worse compare to a companion.
A human DD that's not even clearly better than a bot, is definitely a fake.

Fake dps is not a real thing. Bad dps is and is an entirely different problem.

A person doing low dps in a dps role is not “faking” anything. They are just not good at their role.

Fake tanks and healers are people who queue for those rolls, who “know” what those roles require, and have zero desire to fulfill it.

No one is taking a dps role as a “shortcut” to getting a dungeon run in quickly. Fake tanks and healers are.

It’s the ‘everyone is a dd’ again. I am stating it yet again why it is unreasonable.

1. That’s your definition, not a universally accepted standard
2. Such definition is unfair to support players. All taunt do damage, if a tank has to taunt, he has to do damage. Then tank is a subset of DD
3. Your idea on distribution of responsibility is simply giving next to nothing to the DD and way too much to the tank

1. Fake DPS is YOUR term, not a universally accepted one. And not an issue for the what this thread is about. if you feel it is an important issue (it isn't), you are free to create a unique thread about it.
2. No, it's fine for support players.
3. I don't know what it is that you are talking about here. Do you even know what a fake tank is? It's someone who signs up as a tank, but uses a bow, or a 2 handed sword the whole time. As opposed to someone who signs up as a dps and is just bad at it.

All of your arguments sound like a big deflection of the actual problem. The problem is that there are people who do not taunt or heal, (or if the they do heal it's incidental) ON PURPOSE!!!!! They have no desire to actually play there respective roles AT ALL!!! They just want a shorter queue. They just want to skip the line because they think tanks and healers are not needed for dungeons. Just because there is a dd out there that does not live up to your own personal expectations is a "you" problem.

If someone wants to dps with a sword and shield or a healing staff, that is not being a fake anything, they just don't know any better. THAT IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THAN SOMEONE GAMING THE SYSTEM IN THEIR FAVOR!