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The amount of fake tanks and fake healers is ridiculous
-
completely stunned without doing anything the stun is too long even if you free yourself you are already dead.
this boss not normal pls nerf0 -
ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭After transmuting all equipment i need, i do not see a reason to continue doing dungeons and trials - its not fun, not profitable and very time-consuming.
When i needed to farm gear, i created a warden tank that can self-heal and heal others, so fake healer/tank problem was solved for me.0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
How about a stacking damage of the taunt on a boss ?
Every time you taunt a boss your next taunt after 10 seconds on that same boss will do 50% more damage up to max 4 times for in total 300% damage of your taunt.
Whether solo or contributing in a group, it will be significant.
Whereby I believe that we need besides the three traditional roles a new Free Category where players who want to rush through normal dungeons like mere delves in a jolly chaos can group up and no longer interfere in the trinity concept caused by the trinity choice we have now.
Edit
typo and correction number
First, how does this help healers?
Second, in a delve I have to wait 20 or more seconds before I start doing actual damage to a mob? I can get on a bow character and burn a mob down in 2 shots.
Why play a tank?
I your post I react upon you say every time "tank and healer" and I adress what can be done to make a tank more usefull in a trinity role.
Players/builds strong enough to rush through normal dungeons who don't want to be hindered by that tank role can join up in the free category. And indeed for those: "why play a tank?"
But for those who just enjoy the tank role and for those who want to learn to tank in normal to use that later in veteran. it offers some more DPS for the trinity group, helping to cut some time to make that choice more rewarding.
For healers something similar is certainly possible, but that is detail.
Key is that players who do want to play with clear roles used in heavy content have more chance to find similar minded players in the Group Finder.
Tanks and healers need to be fun to play when NOT in a group.
They need to be able to do dailies, endeavors, and the like, without much of a hassle. (And carrying around a second set of gear to do that is a hassle, when compared to dd's that don't have to do that.)
It's not just "Be fun in dungeons", it's be fun "All the time".
DD's are fun all the time. Healers and Tanks are not.
You don’t need to completely change gear to do overland. Just change skills, get a companion, do the overland on a dps, find people to group with… there’s plenty of options here. Additionally, having lower dps actually lets you see overland mechanics so in a way doing overland as a healer or tank can be fun.
I addressed that here.As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
I just want to emphasize something.
DD’s are not barred from ANY aspect of the game. They can participate in EVERYTHING.
Tanks (and healers), even with a companion, even with just “swapping around talents”, and yes even with other people, CANNOT do everything.
I don’t know what you play in game, I am guessing it’s some form of DD.
Now imagine everything you do in game right now is mostly barred from you, unless you group up, bring an appropriate companion, or swap skills and gear, EACH time you want to quest, go for skyshards, do a delve daily, each time you need to make an additional effort other players don’t.
And even then solo arenas (which you can’t do as a group, or with a companion) are basically just pipe dreams, unless you basically tear your character down to the bone and start again with gear and talents.
Or you can just play like the other players.
Why play a tank or a healer? You are just making things harder on yourself, play a DD, experience everything, basically hassle free!2 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
How about a stacking damage of the taunt on a boss ?
Every time you taunt a boss your next taunt after 10 seconds on that same boss will do 50% more damage up to max 4 times for in total 300% damage of your taunt.
Whether solo or contributing in a group, it will be significant.
Whereby I believe that we need besides the three traditional roles a new Free Category where players who want to rush through normal dungeons like mere delves in a jolly chaos can group up and no longer interfere in the trinity concept caused by the trinity choice we have now.
Edit
typo and correction number
First, how does this help healers?
Second, in a delve I have to wait 20 or more seconds before I start doing actual damage to a mob? I can get on a bow character and burn a mob down in 2 shots.
Why play a tank?
I your post I react upon you say every time "tank and healer" and I adress what can be done to make a tank more usefull in a trinity role.
Players/builds strong enough to rush through normal dungeons who don't want to be hindered by that tank role can join up in the free category. And indeed for those: "why play a tank?"
But for those who just enjoy the tank role and for those who want to learn to tank in normal to use that later in veteran. it offers some more DPS for the trinity group, helping to cut some time to make that choice more rewarding.
For healers something similar is certainly possible, but that is detail.
Key is that players who do want to play with clear roles used in heavy content have more chance to find similar minded players in the Group Finder.
Tanks and healers need to be fun to play when NOT in a group.
They need to be able to do dailies, endeavors, and the like, without much of a hassle. (And carrying around a second set of gear to do that is a hassle, when compared to dd's that don't have to do that.)
It's not just "Be fun in dungeons", it's be fun "All the time".
DD's are fun all the time. Healers and Tanks are not.
I’ma healer main and I ask why? ZoS gave us the free armory system to solve this problem so I no longer have to run a healer spec overland outside of group content.2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
How about a stacking damage of the taunt on a boss ?
Every time you taunt a boss your next taunt after 10 seconds on that same boss will do 50% more damage up to max 4 times for in total 300% damage of your taunt.
Whether solo or contributing in a group, it will be significant.
Whereby I believe that we need besides the three traditional roles a new Free Category where players who want to rush through normal dungeons like mere delves in a jolly chaos can group up and no longer interfere in the trinity concept caused by the trinity choice we have now.
Edit
typo and correction number
First, how does this help healers?
Second, in a delve I have to wait 20 or more seconds before I start doing actual damage to a mob? I can get on a bow character and burn a mob down in 2 shots.
Why play a tank?
I your post I react upon you say every time "tank and healer" and I adress what can be done to make a tank more usefull in a trinity role.
Players/builds strong enough to rush through normal dungeons who don't want to be hindered by that tank role can join up in the free category. And indeed for those: "why play a tank?"
But for those who just enjoy the tank role and for those who want to learn to tank in normal to use that later in veteran. it offers some more DPS for the trinity group, helping to cut some time to make that choice more rewarding.
For healers something similar is certainly possible, but that is detail.
Key is that players who do want to play with clear roles used in heavy content have more chance to find similar minded players in the Group Finder.
Tanks and healers need to be fun to play when NOT in a group.
They need to be able to do dailies, endeavors, and the like, without much of a hassle. (And carrying around a second set of gear to do that is a hassle, when compared to dd's that don't have to do that.)
It's not just "Be fun in dungeons", it's be fun "All the time".
DD's are fun all the time. Healers and Tanks are not.
I’ma healer main and I ask why? ZoS gave us the free armory system to solve this problem so I no longer have to run a healer spec overland outside of group content.
The free(*) armory system didn’t solve the problem, because in the end it’s more work then just being a DD. That’s the point.
*Free, but additional costs in crowns (in the forms of additional armory slots and an assistant) in the addition of in game gold may still apply.0 -
Rastaman111✭✭Dps for a Tank...
I have been a tank for years now only got 1 account, and hardly ever die just a argonian dragonknight tank. High defence but low damage. Never been a problem.0 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
How about a stacking damage of the taunt on a boss ?
Every time you taunt a boss your next taunt after 10 seconds on that same boss will do 50% more damage up to max 4 times for in total 300% damage of your taunt.
Whether solo or contributing in a group, it will be significant.
Whereby I believe that we need besides the three traditional roles a new Free Category where players who want to rush through normal dungeons like mere delves in a jolly chaos can group up and no longer interfere in the trinity concept caused by the trinity choice we have now.
Edit
typo and correction number
First, how does this help healers?
Second, in a delve I have to wait 20 or more seconds before I start doing actual damage to a mob? I can get on a bow character and burn a mob down in 2 shots.
Why play a tank?
I your post I react upon you say every time "tank and healer" and I adress what can be done to make a tank more usefull in a trinity role.
Players/builds strong enough to rush through normal dungeons who don't want to be hindered by that tank role can join up in the free category. And indeed for those: "why play a tank?"
But for those who just enjoy the tank role and for those who want to learn to tank in normal to use that later in veteran. it offers some more DPS for the trinity group, helping to cut some time to make that choice more rewarding.
For healers something similar is certainly possible, but that is detail.
Key is that players who do want to play with clear roles used in heavy content have more chance to find similar minded players in the Group Finder.
Tanks and healers need to be fun to play when NOT in a group.
They need to be able to do dailies, endeavors, and the like, without much of a hassle. (And carrying around a second set of gear to do that is a hassle, when compared to dd's that don't have to do that.)
It's not just "Be fun in dungeons", it's be fun "All the time".
DD's are fun all the time. Healers and Tanks are not.
You don’t need to completely change gear to do overland. Just change skills, get a companion, do the overland on a dps, find people to group with… there’s plenty of options here. Additionally, having lower dps actually lets you see overland mechanics so in a way doing overland as a healer or tank can be fun.
I addressed that here.As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
I just want to emphasize something.
DD’s are not barred from ANY aspect of the game. They can participate in EVERYTHING.
Tanks (and healers), even with a companion, even with just “swapping around talents”, and yes even with other people, CANNOT do everything.
I don’t know what you play in game, I am guessing it’s some form of DD.
Now imagine everything you do in game right now is mostly barred from you, unless you group up, bring an appropriate companion, or swap skills and gear, EACH time you want to quest, go for skyshards, do a delve daily, each time you need to make an additional effort other players don’t.
And even then solo arenas (which you can’t do as a group, or with a companion) are basically just pipe dreams, unless you basically tear your character down to the bone and start again with gear and talents.
Or you can just play like the other players.
Why play a tank or a healer? You are just making things harder on yourself, play a DD, experience everything, basically hassle free!
In regards to your assumption, nope! My comment was based on experience. My main may be a form of dps but I play all roles and have overlanded on all roles. Do I go for the dps to do overland that’s not character specific? Sure, but I have done and will continue to do overland content as a healer and tank. A note on the solo arenas as well… of course you can’t do a solo arena as a healer or tank. Many people can’t do it as a pure dps either. You’re a one man show you have to supply your own heals, own shields, own protection, own damage, thus solo build. The nice thing about eso is you can make more characters to specialize in different things anyway.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
How about a stacking damage of the taunt on a boss ?
Every time you taunt a boss your next taunt after 10 seconds on that same boss will do 50% more damage up to max 4 times for in total 300% damage of your taunt.
Whether solo or contributing in a group, it will be significant.
Whereby I believe that we need besides the three traditional roles a new Free Category where players who want to rush through normal dungeons like mere delves in a jolly chaos can group up and no longer interfere in the trinity concept caused by the trinity choice we have now.
Edit
typo and correction number
First, how does this help healers?
Second, in a delve I have to wait 20 or more seconds before I start doing actual damage to a mob? I can get on a bow character and burn a mob down in 2 shots.
Why play a tank?
I your post I react upon you say every time "tank and healer" and I adress what can be done to make a tank more usefull in a trinity role.
Players/builds strong enough to rush through normal dungeons who don't want to be hindered by that tank role can join up in the free category. And indeed for those: "why play a tank?"
But for those who just enjoy the tank role and for those who want to learn to tank in normal to use that later in veteran. it offers some more DPS for the trinity group, helping to cut some time to make that choice more rewarding.
For healers something similar is certainly possible, but that is detail.
Key is that players who do want to play with clear roles used in heavy content have more chance to find similar minded players in the Group Finder.
Tanks and healers need to be fun to play when NOT in a group.
They need to be able to do dailies, endeavors, and the like, without much of a hassle. (And carrying around a second set of gear to do that is a hassle, when compared to dd's that don't have to do that.)
It's not just "Be fun in dungeons", it's be fun "All the time".
DD's are fun all the time. Healers and Tanks are not.
You don’t need to completely change gear to do overland. Just change skills, get a companion, do the overland on a dps, find people to group with… there’s plenty of options here. Additionally, having lower dps actually lets you see overland mechanics so in a way doing overland as a healer or tank can be fun.
I addressed that here.As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
I just want to emphasize something.
DD’s are not barred from ANY aspect of the game. They can participate in EVERYTHING.
Tanks (and healers), even with a companion, even with just “swapping around talents”, and yes even with other people, CANNOT do everything.
I don’t know what you play in game, I am guessing it’s some form of DD.
Now imagine everything you do in game right now is mostly barred from you, unless you group up, bring an appropriate companion, or swap skills and gear, EACH time you want to quest, go for skyshards, do a delve daily, each time you need to make an additional effort other players don’t.
And even then solo arenas (which you can’t do as a group, or with a companion) are basically just pipe dreams, unless you basically tear your character down to the bone and start again with gear and talents.
Or you can just play like the other players.
Why play a tank or a healer? You are just making things harder on yourself, play a DD, experience everything, basically hassle free!
In regards to your assumption, nope! My comment was based on experience. My main may be a form of dps but I play all roles and have overlanded on all roles. Do I go for the dps to do overland that’s not character specific? Sure, but I have done and will continue to do overland content as a healer and tank. A note on the solo arenas as well… of course you can’t do a solo arena as a healer or tank. Many people can’t do it as a pure dps either. You’re a one man show you have to supply your own heals, own shields, own protection, own damage, thus solo build. The nice thing about eso is you can make more characters to specialize in different things anyway.
Doesn’t really matter if you are a Dd or not, the argument still stands.
A normal DD just logs on and is ready to go for just about anything.
Tanks and healers need to go through extra steps, it’s the extra steps that is the issue here.
Just because YOU have no issues with these extra steps, it does not mean the greater group of players find it acceptable.
When I worked in NYC, it took me 2.5 hours to commute to work, and 3.5 hours to get home. Would you find this commute time acceptable? Do you think the population at large would be ok with a commute like that? No they would not. It did not matter that I was ok with the commute, but I had no illusions that others would accept it.
I can play a DD with no commute, or I can play a tank/healer with a longer commute time.Edited by BlueRaven on 8 September 2022 22:182 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »
To have a somewhat fair distribution of responsibility the DD should be outputting at least triple of the tank.
I actually had moments where my main (who is built for solo play and thus can do the tank role in a group session) will have higher dps with sword + shield abilities than the actual DDs, and that just makes me sad... I ain't even focusing on being a DPS and somehow I am dishing out more damage than my queued DDs?3 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
How about a stacking damage of the taunt on a boss ?
Every time you taunt a boss your next taunt after 10 seconds on that same boss will do 50% more damage up to max 4 times for in total 300% damage of your taunt.
Whether solo or contributing in a group, it will be significant.
Whereby I believe that we need besides the three traditional roles a new Free Category where players who want to rush through normal dungeons like mere delves in a jolly chaos can group up and no longer interfere in the trinity concept caused by the trinity choice we have now.
Edit
typo and correction number
First, how does this help healers?
Second, in a delve I have to wait 20 or more seconds before I start doing actual damage to a mob? I can get on a bow character and burn a mob down in 2 shots.
Why play a tank?
I your post I react upon you say every time "tank and healer" and I adress what can be done to make a tank more usefull in a trinity role.
Players/builds strong enough to rush through normal dungeons who don't want to be hindered by that tank role can join up in the free category. And indeed for those: "why play a tank?"
But for those who just enjoy the tank role and for those who want to learn to tank in normal to use that later in veteran. it offers some more DPS for the trinity group, helping to cut some time to make that choice more rewarding.
For healers something similar is certainly possible, but that is detail.
Key is that players who do want to play with clear roles used in heavy content have more chance to find similar minded players in the Group Finder.
Tanks and healers need to be fun to play when NOT in a group.
They need to be able to do dailies, endeavors, and the like, without much of a hassle. (And carrying around a second set of gear to do that is a hassle, when compared to dd's that don't have to do that.)
It's not just "Be fun in dungeons", it's be fun "All the time".
DD's are fun all the time. Healers and Tanks are not.
I’ma healer main and I ask why? ZoS gave us the free armory system to solve this problem so I no longer have to run a healer spec overland outside of group content.
The free(*) armory system didn’t solve the problem, because in the end it’s more work then just being a DD. That’s the point.
*Free, but additional costs in crowns (in the forms of additional armory slots and an assistant) in the addition of in game gold may still apply.
I wholeheartedly disagree it seems you just want to find an issue where no issue exists in this specific case; ZoS has done a lot of greedy anti-player moves worthy of criticism since 2014 but this isn't one of them. My main has solo/healer/DPS/PVP builds in the armory. My other 5 toons all have solo and healer, and my DK has solo/healer/tank builds. It's easy to use and set up alternate build profiles (although a lock profile would be much appreciated) in the armory and as one who used to run overland and quest with a healer builds this QOL change was MAJOR for me. The armory comes with two free base slots so you can do an overland/support build from the get go with zero monetary investment which is what we're talking about here. I personally think that the armory should give standard 5 build slots for each toon but this ZoS we're talking about who would monetize giving water to refugees in the desert if they could get away with it.
Yes the armory assistant does cost crowns (and a lot of them...there's an entire discussion that could be had on ZoS' predatory crown store pricing model alone but we all know it would be snipped in short order and then probably closed for "bashing" when it's just critique on a public business model), but you don't need the armory assistant for what we're discussing here. You'd slot your overland build before you leave your home to quest, then return home, slot your support build before queuing for group content...then profit. In this case the assistant really is a convenience item instead of a necessity masked as a convenience item like the crafting bag.2 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Healers are half DDs anyway. I've never had a problem doing overland content with them.
If you just want to do normal dungeons, building a tank that can also deal good damage is also simple.
Even my bash tank can solo World Bosses like nobody's business.
Now in veteran, you'll start to have issues. But so does everybody that doesn't build properly.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »As far as I am concerned this is exactly what the community (I.e. the forums) wanted to happen.
There were so many complaints on these forums when tank and healer damage output was nerfed.
“Tanks and healers need to quest, get skyshards, do dailies…”
And the forums replied with;
“They do too much damage in pvp.”
“Just put some leather on with a two hander.”
“You don’t need to do damage with a support role.”
Etc.
And the reply was;
“If I can do ALL of the content as a dd, but only some of the content as a tank/healer, why not just stay a dd? You are going to crater the tank/healer population.”
Well they nerfed tanks and healers, so they mostly switched to dd. (If they kept playing…) Just as predicted. So congrats! The community got what they wanted.
Want more tanks and healers? Make the rolls fun to play!
Yes! Let them do damage! Make it so they can actually do stuff on their own. Because if they can’t, why make one?
How about a stacking damage of the taunt on a boss ?
Every time you taunt a boss your next taunt after 10 seconds on that same boss will do 50% more damage up to max 4 times for in total 300% damage of your taunt.
Whether solo or contributing in a group, it will be significant.
Whereby I believe that we need besides the three traditional roles a new Free Category where players who want to rush through normal dungeons like mere delves in a jolly chaos can group up and no longer interfere in the trinity concept caused by the trinity choice we have now.
Edit
typo and correction number
First, how does this help healers?
Second, in a delve I have to wait 20 or more seconds before I start doing actual damage to a mob? I can get on a bow character and burn a mob down in 2 shots.
Why play a tank?
I your post I react upon you say every time "tank and healer" and I adress what can be done to make a tank more usefull in a trinity role.
Players/builds strong enough to rush through normal dungeons who don't want to be hindered by that tank role can join up in the free category. And indeed for those: "why play a tank?"
But for those who just enjoy the tank role and for those who want to learn to tank in normal to use that later in veteran. it offers some more DPS for the trinity group, helping to cut some time to make that choice more rewarding.
For healers something similar is certainly possible, but that is detail.
Key is that players who do want to play with clear roles used in heavy content have more chance to find similar minded players in the Group Finder.
Tanks and healers need to be fun to play when NOT in a group.
They need to be able to do dailies, endeavors, and the like, without much of a hassle. (And carrying around a second set of gear to do that is a hassle, when compared to dd's that don't have to do that.)
It's not just "Be fun in dungeons", it's be fun "All the time".
DD's are fun all the time. Healers and Tanks are not.
I’ma healer main and I ask why? ZoS gave us the free armory system to solve this problem so I no longer have to run a healer spec overland outside of group content.
The free(*) armory system didn’t solve the problem, because in the end it’s more work then just being a DD. That’s the point.
*Free, but additional costs in crowns (in the forms of additional armory slots and an assistant) in the addition of in game gold may still apply.
I wholeheartedly disagree it seems you just want to find an issue where no issue exists in this specific case; ZoS has done a lot of greedy anti-player moves worthy of criticism since 2014 but this isn't one of them. My main has solo/healer/DPS/PVP builds in the armory. My other 5 toons all have solo and healer, and my DK has solo/healer/tank builds. It's easy to use and set up alternate build profiles (although a lock profile would be much appreciated) in the armory and as one who used to run overland and quest with a healer builds this QOL change was MAJOR for me. The armory comes with two free base slots so you can do an overland/support build from the get go with zero monetary investment which is what we're talking about here. I personally think that the armory should give standard 5 build slots for each toon but this ZoS we're talking about who would monetize giving water to refugees in the desert if they could get away with it.
Yes the armory assistant does cost crowns (and a lot of them...there's an entire discussion that could be had on ZoS' predatory crown store pricing model alone but we all know it would be snipped in short order and then probably closed for "bashing" when it's just critique on a public business model), but you don't need the armory assistant for what we're discussing here. You'd slot your overland build before you leave your home to quest, then return home, slot your support build before queuing for group content...then profit. In this case the assistant really is a convenience item instead of a necessity masked as a convenience item like the crafting bag.
I am sorry if I gave that impression, I must be at fault.
I thought I was posting in a thread about fake tanks and healers.
About how there are so few people in those roles, after years of constant nerfs to their dps output, that many people have abandoned those roles and most are playing just DDs.
About the issue getting so out of hand the queue times for DDs have skyrocketed so much DDs have resorted to posing as fake tanks and healers to circumvent these long times.
I thought that was the thread I was posting in, I am sorry.
Also I was under the impression that extra armor slots cost money. You see a Dd just needs one, maybe two for a pvp variant. But I see you have four. Now I simply pointed out that extra armor slots in this “free” system (apparently mistakenly) cost crowns. But you imply that the “free” system gives away those slots that tanks and healers need to maintain dd variations AND their pvp variants without additional cost. I will take your word for it until I can check in game later to see if in fact they do cost crowns. But I am sure it will be my mistake once again.
Also I was under the apparently wrong impression that the DD variants, and the pvp variants need there own armor sets and that those also need to be acquired separately adding yet more work to the role. But once again I was mistaken.
I was also under the wrong impression that unlike a dd, all of this gear for these variant would take extra bag space a dd would not have to worry about. But again I was wrong, apparently the bag space requirements would be about equal? Who knew?
But apparently I was wrong on so many things. Queue for DDs are as long as tanks and healers because so many people play those roles! The third and fourth armor saves that tanks and healers require are given to us for free by zos! Bag space requirements are the same for tanks and healers with their dd builds, is the same as a dd with their one build!
Nope there is no additional work needed to play a tank or healer! And that this additional work and cost does not in any way drive away people from those roles. Case closed!2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Quite frankly I am baffled by the responses on this thread. I am simply pointing out that because of the extremely low dps output of tanks and healers, this drives people to dd roles when doing over land and other things.
And since dds can do everything tanks and healers do, players just simply stay as a dd.
If your counter argument begins with a variation of “But all you have to do is…” you have already lost the argument. Dds don’t have to go through any extra steps.
It was not always like this in ESO, tanks and healers were originally required to help burn down mobs. They could stay in their original gear and do overland just fine. My original character, my first character, was a DK sword and board and I went through to cadwells gold in vet level 15 without EVER going into a dungeon. I just did overland as a tank, yes it was a little slower but not painfully slower. It’s just how I wanted to play the character.
Today it would be extremely slow.
Over the years that has changed, and with lower and lower dps output, less and less people are using tank gear. Tanking and healing become less attractive as rolls and just staying a dd seems like a better idea. As a result the dd dungeon times grew longer and thus we have the fake tank/healer issues.
This is a controversial observation?Edited by BlueRaven on 9 September 2022 13:213 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I agree that, what you described, IS a problem. But I don't think that there are any solutions to itJarl_Ironheart wrote: »So I'm gonna add some more to this post. I just got done doing Vet Crypt of Hearts for the daily and I was qued up as a DPS. My tank was a fake tank and my healer was a fake healer. They both continously ran ahead of me and the other DPS and died CONSTANTLY, leaving me and the other DPS to duo every boss and most adds. Not only were they fake tank and healer they were crappy players and awful DPS. This is the kinda crap that I mean when I talk about the fake role stuff. It IS a BIG PROBLEM and ZOS needs to figure it out. Just absolutely ridiculous
There is a solution but people aren't gonna like it. The only way to end the fake role epidemic is to remove the whole any class can do any role nonsense. Redesign classes so they can just heal or tank or dps. It would allow devs to completely flesh out a class and give it one distinct identity and purpose instead of splitting the class 3 ways and making it generic to underwhelming in like 1-2 of the 3 roles. That would also pave the way for a trial finder as people could more accurately predict what they'd get in the queue.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.
The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)
You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"
People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...
Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger65,385 achievement points7 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.
The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)
You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"
People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...
Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...
If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.
The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)
You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"
People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...
Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...
If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.
It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.
The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger65,385 achievement points6 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I wouldn't be too worried, to be honest. Think about it realistically... what would they have reported you for? (Bad Actions ->) Harassment/bullying? ZOS can see chat logs. (Bad Language/Toxicity ->) Trolling? Not staying in a group could hardly be construed as trolling; annoying, yes, even frustrating if the group is more than capable of clearing the content, but you get a tank or healer leave because they "don't like the dungeon." But none of those things should be actionable.It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.
The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.
@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics2 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Quite frankly I am baffled by the responses on this thread. I am simply pointing out that because of the extremely low dps output of tanks and healers, this drives people to dd roles when doing over land and other things.
And since dds can do everything tanks and healers do, players just simply stay as a dd.
If your counter argument begins with a variation of “But all you have to do is…” you have already lost the argument. Dds don’t have to go through any extra steps.
It was not always like this in ESO, tanks and healers were originally required to help burn down mobs. They could stay in their original gear and do overland just fine. My original character, my first character, was a DK sword and board and I went through to cadwells gold in vet level 15 without EVER going into a dungeon. I just did overland as a tank, yes it was a little slower but not painfully slower. It’s just how I wanted to play the character.
Today it would be extremely slow.
Over the years that has changed, and with lower and lower dps output, less and less people are using tank gear. Tanking and healing become less attractive as rolls and just staying a dd seems like a better idea. As a result the dd dungeon times grew longer and thus we have the fake tank/healer issues.
This is a controversial observation?
I dont think that I find tbe observation controversial, I simply dont see it as a point of contention.
I do tank. I also DD, on the same character.
The armory allows me to swap specs, but, I really dont need that for overland. I have and sometimes do quest in heavy armor. What I dont do is try to use only abilities from sword and board as my goto damage abilities. If youre a DK, breath, talons, and whip still work. Sets like yol, turning tide, sax, etc are all designed for group play. Theres nothing that says you have to wear those to quest. To be perfectly honest, the 20k my build puts out is more than enough. Overland feels just about right between 10-20k.
A lot of DDs are going to run into that as well. Most do bring multiple sets, unless youre talking about specifically normal and maybe base game veteran content. In which case, you probably could get by with whatever set you were already wearing as a tank anyway.
If anything the armory allows, or should, to bring in more tanks into the DF. The issue with it, as was alluded to, is that its implementation was, well, greedy. Armory slots should have been account wide. It was a step in the right direction though.
I havent yet and still dont use the assistant. I can only think of a small handful of times that would have ever been truly useful. A random vet where the tank leaves, for instance. I can easily swap to tank, but in doing so its no longer a random for me and Ive lost the rewards for it.
All in all, I think its easier to be a tank now than it has been in years. It certainly doesnt stop me. When I think of all the reasons why I dont want to tank, or more specifically to queue, as a tank, me needing to swap my build isnt normally a reason. The few times that it is, its still overshadowed by other reasons.
Most of the guilds and groups that I run with have more tanks than they can roster, a lot more. I think the issue is less that are so few tanks and more that theyre not queueing.
0 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS should simply enforce roles for the dungeonfinder, before this issue sinks the game.
The tank shortage is mosly a result of the constant tanking nerfs. Just about anything tanks need, gets nerfed. Defenses, resources, tank sets, damage output, heavy armor penalties, etc. Not to mention the low DPS we do, but luckily we can now switch to DPS with the armory... which leaves even less tanks.
The excuse of low DPS, or fake DPS is completely nonsense. Just an excuse some players tell themselves to not feel bad about skipping the line, and negatively impacting three other players. For this undaunted event I switched 15 of my 18 characters to tanks with the armory, atleast the ones that weren't tanks yet. And I did 15 random normals today, none had low DPS in them!! Which is strange, as I never experience the low DPS everyone is talking about. Which leaves me to believe the ones tanking are at fault, and the cause of low DPS in their groups. When you queue as tank while being a DPS(or a bad tank), you actually lower the overal group DPS by a huge margin. It might look cool on the DPS meter, but it is a false truth.
My selfish tanks do 1.5k DPS each, so if the group has low DPS I'd be the first to notice it. Not wearing any groupbuff sets either, only tanking sets.
Players should simply respect eachother's time, and stop signing up with fake roles.
PS: Normally I'd run veteran dungeons, but that would take too long.
PPS: I have tanks of every class.Edited by Sarannah on 9 September 2022 21:031 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Quite frankly I am baffled by the responses on this thread. I am simply pointing out that because of the extremely low dps output of tanks and healers, this drives people to dd roles when doing over land and other things.
And since dds can do everything tanks and healers do, players just simply stay as a dd.
If your counter argument begins with a variation of “But all you have to do is…” you have already lost the argument. Dds don’t have to go through any extra steps.
It was not always like this in ESO, tanks and healers were originally required to help burn down mobs. They could stay in their original gear and do overland just fine. My original character, my first character, was a DK sword and board and I went through to cadwells gold in vet level 15 without EVER going into a dungeon. I just did overland as a tank, yes it was a little slower but not painfully slower. It’s just how I wanted to play the character.
Today it would be extremely slow.
Over the years that has changed, and with lower and lower dps output, less and less people are using tank gear. Tanking and healing become less attractive as rolls and just staying a dd seems like a better idea. As a result the dd dungeon times grew longer and thus we have the fake tank/healer issues.
This is a controversial observation?
You're kind of missing the whole point.
With or without the armory, it's trivial to slot a taunt and some sort of mob-gathering skill if you're going to Q as a tank and a couple of effective group heals if you want to Q as a healer.
The issue is honesty and integrity when Qd for a PUG. As a premade, you do what you want but in a PUG everyone has a right to expect that the other strangers are portraying their role honestly. If you're not you're just simply scamming others and are a kind of toxic member of the community.4 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.
The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)
You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"
People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...
Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...
If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.
It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.
The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.
The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.
I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.2 -
Jarl_Ironheart✭✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.
The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)
You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"
People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...
Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...
If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.
It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.
The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.
The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.
I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.
I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.Push Posh Applesauce, Pocket Full of Marmalade.2 -
UnabashedlyHonest✭✭✭✭✭Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.
The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)
You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"
People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...
Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...
If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.
It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.
The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.
The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.
I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.
I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.
That's because fake tanking and fake healing aren't real problems. This issue is so minor compared to all the other actual bugs and design flaws happening in ESO right now it doesn't make any sense to even bring up this issue.
Bugs and design flaws should be the priority fixes going on right now.2 -
Living_Tribunal✭✭✭After this event I'm changing my tune. I ran bloodroot forge last night where we all kept dieing. I asked if we had a tank or a healer, the tank proceeded to lose his mind in the chat and blamed us for not knowing the mechanics. Eventually he go do tired of dieing and left. we queued a new tank. If you're going to tank, just slot a taunt and hold the bbeg. Usually I don't notice it too much, I can handle my own pretty well, but this event has brought out a lot of.... interesting....people.1
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Dawnblade✭✭✭✭✭Living_Tribunal wrote: »After this event I'm changing my tune. I ran bloodroot forge last night where we all kept dieing. I asked if we had a tank or a healer, the tank proceeded to lose his mind in the chat and blamed us for not knowing the mechanics. Eventually he go do tired of dieing and left. we queued a new tank. If you're going to tank, just slot a taunt and hold the bbeg. Usually I don't notice it too much, I can handle my own pretty well, but this event has brought out a lot of.... interesting....people.
LOL yeah there are some real ignoramuses out there.
I had a fake tank' in FG1 of all places the other day, 2K CP, loaded in and took off running before everyone else was even fully loaded into the dungeon.
The rest of us were on lowbies, and before we could take two steps we were being attacked by all the trash the 'tank' ran through (side note, I hate ESO aggro where you can get it even if you haven't taken a single action).
As we killed off the trash together and quickly moved forward, the fake 'tank' died to the first boss.
We all laughed at the idiot, then voted to kick the idiot, then proceeded to finish without a tank.
Edited by Dawnblade on 11 September 2022 17:473 -
Jarl_Ironheart✭✭✭✭✭Living_Tribunal wrote: »After this event I'm changing my tune. I ran bloodroot forge last night where we all kept dieing. I asked if we had a tank or a healer, the tank proceeded to lose his mind in the chat and blamed us for not knowing the mechanics. Eventually he go do tired of dieing and left. we queued a new tank. If you're going to tank, just slot a taunt and hold the bbeg. Usually I don't notice it too much, I can handle my own pretty well, but this event has brought out a lot of.... interesting....people.
Bloodroot forge vet is hard though to be fair.Push Posh Applesauce, Pocket Full of Marmalade.2 -
Living_Tribunal✭✭✭Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »Living_Tribunal wrote: »After this event I'm changing my tune. I ran bloodroot forge last night where we all kept dieing. I asked if we had a tank or a healer, the tank proceeded to lose his mind in the chat and blamed us for not knowing the mechanics. Eventually he go do tired of dieing and left. we queued a new tank. If you're going to tank, just slot a taunt and hold the bbeg. Usually I don't notice it too much, I can handle my own pretty well, but this event has brought out a lot of.... interesting....people.
Bloodroot forge vet is hard though to be fair.
Oh no, it was totally normal.0 -
Living_Tribunal✭✭✭Living_Tribunal wrote: »After this event I'm changing my tune. I ran bloodroot forge last night where we all kept dieing. I asked if we had a tank or a healer, the tank proceeded to lose his mind in the chat and blamed us for not knowing the mechanics. Eventually he go do tired of dieing and left. we queued a new tank. If you're going to tank, just slot a taunt and hold the bbeg. Usually I don't notice it too much, I can handle my own pretty well, but this event has brought out a lot of.... interesting....people.
LOL yeah there are some real ignoramuses out there.
I had a fake tank' in FG1 of all places the other day, 2K CP, loaded in and took off running before everyone else was even fully loaded into the dungeon.
The rest of us were on lowbies, and before we could take two steps we were being attacked by all the trash the 'tank' ran through (side note, I hate ESO aggro where you can get it even if you haven't taken a single action).
As we killed off the trash together and quickly moved forward, the fake 'tank' died to the first boss.
We all laughed at the idiot, then voted to kick the idiot, then proceeded to finish without a tank.
Same guy....
Prob....0 -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »And even when you enter the queue as a "true" healer (SPC/MA/Spaulder), and you end up doing 40%+ of the dps by just using your wall/shards/crushing shock (all part of the normal healer kit), in full healer CP setup.
The tank doesn't know mechanics, and the other two DPS are effectively doing little more damage than the healer. (All CP1400+, which not a great measure, means they've at least played for a while)
You leave the group, as it's clear you're not going to be able to clear the vet hard mode with them, after helping carry them all to the last boss (ressed them at least 20+ times, did all the mechanics on other bosses, etc...), but they refuse to do the mechanics (and it's a fight that you MUST do the mechanics on)... and get a whisper from one saying "Enjoy the triple report"
People abusing the report function, queuing for things they aren't prepared for AND are unwilling to learn how to do the content (it's the latter that's the biggest problem)...
Going to be extremely upset if those reports get "actioned" just because there were apparently 3 of them in a short span...
If you're worried about that just run logs in vet dungeons and you can link the report in response to any actions in the future.I don't think you're in any danger from the coordinated report and if you screenshot the DM you can show it was vindictive.
It would be the first action on my in-game account (had some forum run-ins, but they are separate). But it's the "Hey, you've been banned for 72 hours"... you try and get support to look into it... and it takes them 4 days to respond, by which time your suspension is over, you've lost 3 days of playtime and there's nothing they can do to compensate for it.
The system is backwards, and the litany of complaints I've seen for similar situations has me slightly nervous... no matter how much "proof" I have.
The fact you waited that long to call them out, is 100% letting these subpar players become more entitled.
I call these people out < 5 minutes into the dungeon.
I just reported 2 fake roles rhe other day who were not only fake roles but absolutely sucked at trying to speed run and kept dying. I think it's very fair to call these kind of people out and get them Punished.
That's because fake tanking and fake healing aren't real problems. This issue is so minor compared to all the other actual bugs and design flaws happening in ESO right now it doesn't make any sense to even bring up this issue.
Bugs and design flaws should be the priority fixes going on right now.
Imagine thinking that only one thing can be worked on at a time.3
This discussion has been closed.