The amount of fake tanks and fake healers is ridiculous

Aehallh

When the queue pops and we get into dungeon (pug) and I find that there is a fake tank( not so bad if they actually lead the assault and have a taunt) or a healer without a resto staff I vote to kick them. sometimes works sometimes people just dont care. I have a full y geared and leveled tank and healer. It sucks that some jacko can queue just to get in quick. And dont telll me the usual "well it is only a normal"

Klingenlied

Random dungeons will be random experiences because even if people can fulfill their roles is "random" - so its so much rng that you can not compare it to anything else.

Anyway, don't want it? Stay out of it / run normals in fake role because in the worst case you can solo anyway.
Vet stuff? The chances for getting a bad team are higher then those of getting a good team. So better stick to premade.

StarOfElyon

Jaustink wrote: »

All the more reason to get into veteran content where this behavior, unless coordinated, is very unwelcome. Most people just want to run the normal dungeons (often random for these people) as fast as humanly possible because they’re farming transmutes. I honestly welcome it in normals because more dps means faster completion of the random normal 🤷🏻‍♂️

BUT it is very irritating for new players who don’t understand this, understand mechanics and who want to quest. 100%

It is a serious problem. Some can't take a hit and are dying in trash pulls, leading to them quiting before they reach the boss. It's also a problem caused by the difficulty gap in content. Normal dungeons are so easy that tanking is optional and so players don't learn how to properly tank. And then the vet content is so much harder for tanks that it is like running straight into a brick wall for some of them, and so they either don't bother trying or they try and fail. Which is the reason why tanks for vet dungeons are so hard to find. I've had to switch from DD to tank sometimes just to get through a dungeon.

This situation can be improved if normal content made tanking harder. Maybe that will also discourage fake tanking.

Cast_El

I am endgame trial Tank and I am doing dongeon with my pvp character with a tunt only for bosses. Why ? Because too many times dps group was around 20k...

Oreyn_Bearclaw

James-Wayne wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why

I think its pretty hard to be a fake DPS unless you are actively trolling. Now there are certainly lots of bad DPS, but I am not going to call that fake. A tank with no taunt is a fake tank. A healer without at least one group heal is a fake healer. Nearly impossible for a build to have no DPS. Now one can certainly be a bad tank or bad healer if really only doing the minimum, but I distinguish between bad and fake.

EnerG wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Good tank prefer 3 dps

Bad tanks prefer 3 dps because then the fights won't last long enough for the party to realise they're trash.

I prefer 2d 1t 1h and I do not give a single [snip] if that spindleclutch 1 takes me 20 minutes because of it.

[edited for profanity bypass]

If your healer is actually good at their job, they will provide nearly as much DPS in the form of group buffs as a third DPS likely would. In difficult content, a 3DPS group requires their DPS to be non-optimal because they have to heal themselves and perhaps build for more sustain.

Don't get me wrong, I have 3 DPSed just about every hardmode in the game, but Ill take a good healer any day of the week. Roughly the same group damage, much less sketchy, lol.

kurbbie_s

Aehallh wrote: »

When the queue pops and we get into dungeon (pug) and I find that there is a fake tank( not so bad if they actually lead the assault and have a taunt) or a healer without a resto staff I vote to kick them. sometimes works sometimes people just dont care. I have a full y geared and leveled tank and healer. It sucks that some jacko can queue just to get in quick. And dont telll me the usual "well it is only a normal"

if you need a tank in a normal base game dungeon, you shouldnt play eso. Most vet dungeons can be solod. Im very sad to see the skill level of people is so low that they cant not get out of the red.

kurbbie_s

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

All the more reason to get into veteran content where this behavior, unless coordinated, is very unwelcome. Most people just want to run the normal dungeons (often random for these people) as fast as humanly possible because they’re farming transmutes. I honestly welcome it in normals because more dps means faster completion of the random normal 🤷🏻‍♂️

BUT it is very irritating for new players who don’t understand this, understand mechanics and who want to quest. 100%

It is a serious problem. Some can't take a hit and are dying in trash pulls, leading to them quiting before they reach the boss. It's also a problem caused by the difficulty gap in content. Normal dungeons are so easy that tanking is optional and so players don't learn how to properly tank. And then the vet content is so much harder for tanks that it is like running straight into a brick wall for some of them, and so they either don't bother trying or they try and fail. Which is the reason why tanks for vet dungeons are so hard to find. I've had to switch from DD to tank sometimes just to get through a dungeon.

This situation can be improved if normal content made tanking harder. Maybe that will also discourage fake tanking.

the people dying arent the ones who que as fake tank. The ones dying are the people who need a tank.

kurbbie_s

whats funnier thank queing as a fake tank? Soloing the boss while everyone else is dead crying about you not being a tank.

kurbbie_s

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

All the more reason to get into veteran content where this behavior, unless coordinated, is very unwelcome. Most people just want to run the normal dungeons (often random for these people) as fast as humanly possible because they’re farming transmutes. I honestly welcome it in normals because more dps means faster completion of the random normal 🤷🏻‍♂️

BUT it is very irritating for new players who don’t understand this, understand mechanics and who want to quest. 100%

It is a serious problem. Some can't take a hit and are dying in trash pulls, leading to them quiting before they reach the boss. It's also a problem caused by the difficulty gap in content. Normal dungeons are so easy that tanking is optional and so players don't learn how to properly tank. And then the vet content is so much harder for tanks that it is like running straight into a brick wall for some of them, and so they either don't bother trying or they try and fail. Which is the reason why tanks for vet dungeons are so hard to find. I've had to switch from DD to tank sometimes just to get through a dungeon.

This situation can be improved if normal content made tanking harder. Maybe that will also discourage fake tanking.

you dont even need a tank in normal. You can literally just stand in the red and never die.

Soarora

kurbbie_s wrote: »

whats funnier thank queing as a fake tank? Soloing the boss while everyone else is dead crying about you not being a tank.

It’s not funny for the other group mates who want to do a dungeon but can’t because they aren’t being ressed and died due to a heavy attack. Not everyone in normals know what they’re doing. New players need real tanks and real healers to learn how to do dungeons and become better… experiences like this make people quit. Also, even as someone who is more experienced, it’s extremely frustrating not getting use of backstabber because the tank isn’t taunting. If I wanted to tank, I would’ve queued as tank.

Jarl_Ironheart

kurbbie_s wrote: »

Aehallh wrote: »

When the queue pops and we get into dungeon (pug) and I find that there is a fake tank( not so bad if they actually lead the assault and have a taunt) or a healer without a resto staff I vote to kick them. sometimes works sometimes people just dont care. I have a full y geared and leveled tank and healer. It sucks that some jacko can queue just to get in quick. And dont telll me the usual "well it is only a normal"

if you need a tank in a normal base game dungeon, you shouldnt play eso. Most vet dungeons can be solod. Im very sad to see the skill level of people is so low that they cant not get out of the red.

Majority of ESO is single player. Also needing a tank for normal dungeons does not mean you're bad at the game. Stop trying to act like people who use tanks are bad players. You're the part of the community that gives dungeons and trials groups a bad name.

AvalonRanger

Still people keep saying about strange fake role issue over and over.
And keep doing nonsense fake tank queue.

If over CP 1000 player keep doing fake role, you're just stupid.

Do you know ESO can make multiple characters, and can trade items through
the your bank space among the your characters? And once your character
reach the 50 lv, then you can use same amount of champion point of your
highest CP character which you have.

Don't do fake tank at the DLC dungeon. There're no reason to do so.

joerginger

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Still people keep saying about strange fake role issue over and over.
And keep doing nonsense fake tank queue.

If over CP 1000 player keep doing fake role, you're just stupid.

Do you know ESO can make multiple characters, and can trade items through
the your bank space among the your characters? And once your character
reach the 50 lv, then you can use same amount of champion point of your
highest CP character which you have.

Don't do fake tank at the DLC dungeon. There're no reason to do so.

I'm sure people who fake tank know all this. They also know that they don't have to wait half an hour or longer to get into a dunngeon.

Btw, once one of your characters has earned some champion points, they can be used on all your characters, even those below level 50. You can set champion points on newly created characters.

Dragonredux

I know this isn't the first thread and it and it isn't the last.

Honestly, the epidemic has gotten worse over the past few years. In addition, I feel the new player experience for dungeons is really hampered because of this.

I will advocate story mode dungeons again this point. Due to people who rush, new players hopelessly try to keep up with the group in a dungeon they don't know the layout of. Have some quests be incomplete and having to redo them due to pushing too fast (looking at you Crypt of Hearts 1).

At this point, I rather duo with my companions (except Direfrost because screw giving them good utility) for the base game dungeons. People tend to forget that Normal dungeons are open and built for everyone. I except 20k dps from a game filled with new and casual players that doesn't do a good job at telling people how to do damage. If low damage trouble this much, please use Oreyn's build suggestion or some other dps tank hybrid build.

I'm half tempted to say throw the 10 transmute reward in veteran and give normal the old transmute reward back. People usually have the brains not the fake the roles and have some effort put in and a kick will go through compared to normal.

ForzaRammer

Dragonredux wrote: »

I know this isn't the first thread and it and it isn't the last.

Honestly, the epidemic has gotten worse over the past few years. In addition, I feel the new player experience for dungeons is really hampered because of this.

I will advocate story mode dungeons again this point. Due to people who rush, new players hopelessly try to keep up with the group in a dungeon they don't know the layout of. Have some quests be incomplete and having to redo them due to pushing too fast (looking at you Crypt of Hearts 1).

At this point, I rather duo with my companions (except Direfrost because screw giving them good utility) for the base game dungeons. People tend to forget that Normal dungeons are open and built for everyone. I except 20k dps from a game filled with new and casual players that doesn't do a good job at telling people how to do damage. If low damage trouble this much, please use Oreyn's build suggestion or some other dps tank hybrid build.

I'm half tempted to say throw the 10 transmute reward in veteran and give normal the old transmute reward back. People usually have the brains not the fake the roles and have some effort put in and a kick will go through compared to normal.

How about hold DD responsible instead of letting the real tank sit through their [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

RagnarSw

dmnqwk wrote: »

With U35 I stopped tanking normal dungeons.

With the massive damage loss sitting at around 25% but a lot more for people who haven't spent hours to change their builds the risk is too great you get no damage in them. And since my tanks took the large hit I don't feel I'm able to easily do 20k+ as a tank, making it too risky to bother.

I simply moved all of my tanks into doing random vet runs where you're far more likely to see actual dps producing actual damage.

That hasn't been my experience. Doing Random Normal I have mostly been getting runs where people have been farming new meta sets over this past week. People usually farm in normal because they are much much faster.

kurbbie_s

Soarora wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

whats funnier thank queing as a fake tank? Soloing the boss while everyone else is dead crying about you not being a tank.

It’s not funny for the other group mates who want to do a dungeon but can’t because they aren’t being ressed and died due to a heavy attack. Not everyone in normals know what they’re doing. New players need real tanks and real healers to learn how to do dungeons and become better… experiences like this make people quit. Also, even as someone who is more experienced, it’s extremely frustrating not getting use of backstabber because the tank isn’t taunting. If I wanted to tank, I would’ve queued as tank.

if youre dying to a heavy attack you arent paying attention to mechanics and would have died regardless of if there was a tank or not.. Really easy especially with addons to dodge a heavy attack. Like i was saying, the skill level is very very low here. Its truly insane.

kurbbie_s

RagnarSw wrote: »

dmnqwk wrote: »

With U35 I stopped tanking normal dungeons.

With the massive damage loss sitting at around 25% but a lot more for people who haven't spent hours to change their builds the risk is too great you get no damage in them. And since my tanks took the large hit I don't feel I'm able to easily do 20k+ as a tank, making it too risky to bother.

I simply moved all of my tanks into doing random vet runs where you're far more likely to see actual dps producing actual damage.

That hasn't been my experience. Doing Random Normal I have mostly been getting runs where people have been farming new meta sets over this past week. People usually farm in normal because they are much much faster.

yes, and you dont need a tank or healer to complete them. Very easy.

kurbbie_s

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Dragonredux wrote: »

I know this isn't the first thread and it and it isn't the last.

Honestly, the epidemic has gotten worse over the past few years. In addition, I feel the new player experience for dungeons is really hampered because of this.

I will advocate story mode dungeons again this point. Due to people who rush, new players hopelessly try to keep up with the group in a dungeon they don't know the layout of. Have some quests be incomplete and having to redo them due to pushing too fast (looking at you Crypt of Hearts 1).

At this point, I rather duo with my companions (except Direfrost because screw giving them good utility) for the base game dungeons. People tend to forget that Normal dungeons are open and built for everyone. I except 20k dps from a game filled with new and casual players that doesn't do a good job at telling people how to do damage. If low damage trouble this much, please use Oreyn's build suggestion or some other dps tank hybrid build.

I'm half tempted to say throw the 10 transmute reward in veteran and give normal the old transmute reward back. People usually have the brains not the fake the roles and have some effort put in and a kick will go through compared to normal.

How about hold DD responsible instead of letting the real tank sit through their [snip]

responsible for what. Whats a healer? Whats a DD and whats a tank? If a healer has a heal on, then im a healer, if a PC has a skill that damages theyre a DD, if you have high health and can pull a target, whats the problem? If my dps is pulling just as well as a tank, whats the problem?

[edited to remove quote]

TheGreatBlackBear

kurbbie_s wrote: »

[snip]

It's not entitlement to expect that someone do the job that they themselves volunteered for to do. You're not fooling anyone with that whole "What is a tank? what is a healer? Well I guess we're all DD because we do damage" nonsense. You're cutting the line for transmutes plain and simple. Why is it we never see healers queuing as fake tanks or fake dps?

[edited to remove quote]

Elendir2am

@kurbbie_s

I can slot Inner Fire, do basic tanking and still do my job as DD. I do it occasionally, when I get fake tank. [snip]

[edited for flaming]

Velocious_Curse

I mean I'll sit here and say I do it.
I'm in there to clear the dungeon in a timely manner. Everything melts on normal anyways so waiting for a tank just takes up time, healer just takes up a slot for a 3rd dps. 🤷‍♂️

AlterBlika

Elendir2am wrote: »

@kurbbie_s

I can slot Inner Fire, do basic tanking and still do my job as DD. I do it occasionally, when I get fake tank. [snip]

The fact that you can do "basic tanking" as a dd proves that you don't need a tank in this content. Why would I bother with actual tanking when there's nothing to "tank"? People are just afraid to take a hit and realize that it's not as scary as they think. [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

EF321

Another new vet dungeon pledge, another fake putting MY cp as their argument for fake queueing "You are CP XXXX you don't need Tank/Heal/DD"

LalMirchi

kurbbie_s wrote: »

[snip]

@kurbbie_s

I would say that the really "Entitled" are the queue-jumpers and fake-rollers. Personally I am good in all all three roles and queue honourably for the sake of fairness.

[edited to remove quote]

PrincessOfThieves

Iselin wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why

Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.

There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.

Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.

It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.

How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?

OnnuK

Ok here is a permanent solution to this:
(PS: Numbers are assumption but to give the idea...)

If you select Tank Role: your Weapon and Spell Damage set to 100 (no matter the set/cp/skills you got, flat line 100)
If you select Healer Role: your Weapon and Spell Damage set to 400, Cannot taunt
If you select DD: Cannot Taunt

Now it will be a mess for the first times, people will eventually give up fake roles and try to learn and improve...
my2¹⁄₁₀₀

svendf

Elendir2am wrote: »

@kurbbie_s

I can slot Inner Fire, do basic tanking and still do my job as DD. I do it occasionally, when I get fake tank. [snip]

Na not correct. What makes qualifie as a tank is your resistance and health. The tank control the battlefiels and fakes aren´t able to do that in a good way. That said. I see you and your playstyle as a victim of bad role integration, and add to that a very selfish way of playing by ignoring other roles.

There are people out there only playing support roles, because they like it that way, or got tired of playing dd. To play as a tank or healer and put it very basic. You better invite your, whole family into ESO. I play another mmo, where your playstyle isn´t possible. It sort of puts a damper on things in a non toxic way, and all are happy to welcome a new player.

You see. When some people is getting too much power (dps) they use it in a very negative way. Please pay attention to, what I wrote above, about being a victim. Zos shouldn´t have gone as fare as they did, but it happened. Why ? I don´t know.

What I know is, people are excluded because of their roles in content, because some feel they are not needed. To boil it down to it´s bare minimum, tanks and healers do also need gear, crystals and skill points, plus their pledges. You get good at your role by playing in all content.

I want to remind you again. Not all people want to play dd and some are getting told to role out one if they wanna follow.

Happy hunting

[edited to remove quote]

svendf

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why

Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.

There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.

Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.

It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.

How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?

The problem is no one is there to teach new players. The story don´t give you anything in that direction, same goes for the role you thoose. There are youtubers out there, but they mostly focus on gear in the upper levels.

ESO don´t have a teaching system or leveling system, which will let them learn an grow. All those important aspects is thrown into the hands of guilds (guildsmates), who have enough of their own. There is no one these players can turn to and get the attention needed.

Of cause this is just the surface, but this is where zos have to start.

Hasenpfote

The bigger issue in this game are fake dps. There are way to many fake dps, so you *have* to play as fake tank/heal to deliver a tiny amount of damage. Many dps do 5k dps and less while "fake tanks" and "fake healer" do 30k+ dps and still can heal the group or keep the control of the encounter.

I dont go as full tank in a dungeon anymore, only as "fake tank" and most time i'm top 1 of dps and still can keep the boss under my control.

So the issue are not "fake tanks" and "fake healer", its clearly a fake dps issue that leads to this thread.