The amount of fake tanks and fake healers is ridiculous

AlterBlika

kargen27 wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

Try bringing 3 DPS into some of those hard Vet DLC dungeons and you won't get far.

We actually did a bunch of vDLC achievs (no-death, speedrun, hm) with 3 dds and 1 tank. It's much easier and faster, if dds know how to play. Otherwise yeah, would prefer a healer.
Although I think that healer is more needed to dds, rather than the tank. Because as a tank you survive nearly everything by yourself.

A friend/guildmate of mine thought this same thing. He would always want three DPS. One night they couldn't get their third DPS so I joined on my healer. I told them I would take care of a lot of the buffing and all the healing so they could remove those skills from their rotation and concentrate fully on DPS. After we finished he admitted the run went smoother with me healing than it does when they have three DPS.
These were very good players. The experience could be that dungeon only. Maybe others actually are faster and smoother with three DPS? For most players though in vet content a healer is going to make things easier.

For me a healer is just a major+minor courage when pugging. It surely forgives some of your mistakes, but 3dds are going to do more damage than 2 with courage. Depends on the dungeon ofc.

AlterBlika

Amottica wrote: »

It is interesting how I never see a fake tank anymore.

Exactly this. I don't see fake tanks in the content where tanks are really needed.

AlterBlika

N00BxV1 wrote: »

It is very ridiculous and something that I do not agree with while in random/pug groups. It's fine if their pre-made group agrees with it, but it's not fine if others are expecting them to play the role that they signed up for.

It doesn't matter to me whether if it's normal or veteran -- they're not being a team player while in group content, it's annoying dealing with them, and it's also unfair to those who wait for their turn and put in the effort to play their role.

Fakers are just too lazy to properly play the role that they signed up for, they are too selfish to care, and they are completely inconsiderate of other people. And the only thing that they're doing in normal dungeons is teaching bad habits that carry over into veteran dungeons.

Also, increasing the rewards for veteran dungeons is unfortunately a bad idea. Because then everyone including the fakers will come there, even if they're not ready for the difficulty, expecting to get carried for the increased rewards. And that's a whole other problem -- people in veteran that are not yet ready for it...

I tend to disagree. Nobody wants to wait 30+ mins for the content that can be solo'd in the mentioned time. If you pug for some vanilla dungeon and wait for half an hour to get in - that's only your choice. You guys literally don't understand the fact that you can finish these dungeons even as 4 dd, just care to slot some heals if needed, don't stay in aoe and learn to dodge and block.
I am a tank myself and I'll never ever go to vanilla vets/normal dlc on my tank build. This is not rewarding, nor is it challenging. I literally can stand still and not die. So why don't I go as a dd and speed up the process? I'm doing you a favor actually, because otherwise you would be stuck in the dungeon for a bit longer.

As for the increased rewards, it's like the case with vDLC pugs. You nearly never see a fake tank here. Because 90% (yeah, you can solo some vDLC) of fakers just don't have what it takes to tank dlc dungeons. Maybe in the first days there will be a bunch of fakes, but after some time everything will return to normal. They don't come there to waste your time. They come there to earn transmutes fast. And it is a working scheme.

dmnqwk

With U35 I stopped tanking normal dungeons.

With the massive damage loss sitting at around 25% but a lot more for people who haven't spent hours to change their builds the risk is too great you get no damage in them. And since my tanks took the large hit I don't feel I'm able to easily do 20k+ as a tank, making it too risky to bother.

I simply moved all of my tanks into doing random vet runs where you're far more likely to see actual dps producing actual damage.

N00BxV1

AlterBlika wrote: »

N00BxV1 wrote: »

It is very ridiculous and something that I do not agree with while in random/pug groups. It's fine if their pre-made group agrees with it, but it's not fine if others are expecting them to play the role that they signed up for.

It doesn't matter to me whether if it's normal or veteran -- they're not being a team player while in group content, it's annoying dealing with them, and it's also unfair to those who wait for their turn and put in the effort to play their role.

Fakers are just too lazy to properly play the role that they signed up for, they are too selfish to care, and they are completely inconsiderate of other people. And the only thing that they're doing in normal dungeons is teaching bad habits that carry over into veteran dungeons.

Also, increasing the rewards for veteran dungeons is unfortunately a bad idea. Because then everyone including the fakers will come there, even if they're not ready for the difficulty, expecting to get carried for the increased rewards. And that's a whole other problem -- people in veteran that are not yet ready for it...

I tend to disagree. Nobody wants to wait 30+ mins for the content that can be solo'd in the mentioned time. If you pug for some vanilla dungeon and wait for half an hour to get in - that's only your choice. You guys literally don't understand the fact that you can finish these dungeons even as 4 dd, just care to slot some heals if needed, don't stay in aoe and learn to dodge and block.
I am a tank myself and I'll never ever go to vanilla vets/normal dlc on my tank build. This is not rewarding, nor is it challenging. I literally can stand still and not die. So why don't I go as a dd and speed up the process? I'm doing you a favor actually, because otherwise you would be stuck in the dungeon for a bit longer.

As for the increased rewards, it's like the case with vDLC pugs. You nearly never see a fake tank here. Because 90% (yeah, you can solo some vDLC) of fakers just don't have what it takes to tank dlc dungeons. Maybe in the first days there will be a bunch of fakes, but after some time everything will return to normal. They don't come there to waste your time. They come there to earn transmutes fast. And it is a working scheme.

You're not doing me any favors. Neither is anyone else. Because I tank and have been for years. I solved my own dungeon queue problem by taking some initiative.

My point is that I don't like it when people are inconsiderate and break in line, whether it be in game or anywhere IRL. They're gonna hear about it and get called out in front of everyone. Gotta let people know when they're being *** or else they'll continue to do it.

EnerG

It really shouldn't be that hard to implement a role checker too. Have a 1hshield /ice staff equipped or a taunt on your bar, yeehaw my guy you're in. You have a resto staff equipped and or at least one heal that effects more than yourself? Again, yeehaw you're in!!

OR spend time to rework the que system so that each character has to pass a small role tutorial to be able to que that role on that character.

A small tank tutorial where u have to apply a taunt too a boss, and block a heavy attack from said boss. You done? Great that's all.

A small heal tutorial where u have to heal and apply 1 buff too an npc until they defeat a monster, if they defeat it you get to heal a dungeon.

Something super duper small and easy quest like that not only introduces the role, but also annoying enough that dps won't be flying thru them on all their alts.

EnerG

ccfeeling wrote: »

Good tank prefer 3 dps

Bad tanks prefer 3 dps because then the fights won't last long enough for the party to realise they're trash.

I prefer 2d 1t 1h and I do not give a single [snip] if that spindleclutch 1 takes me 20 minutes because of it.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Iselin

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

This is such a serious issue because new players will see this behavior a lot and some will think it's acceptable and the way things are done. But then they get into a hard dungeon and they just ruin the run for everyone or they get frustrated when they pull the adds instead of the tank and just die. I'm not sure how ZOS will address this issue if they ever will but it's become so much worse than it was when I started in 2017.

These days in PC NA random normals the vast majority of fake tanks and fake healers I see are either under 50 or low CP. It's no wonder with all the stuff you read here and reddit about how tanks and healers are not needed.

New players read that, believe the [snip] and then do it themselves.

[edited for profanity bypass]

SammyKhajit

Sammy takes offence.

Yes, this one is a fake healer and hence he enlisted the service of another fake healer/tank Isobel.

Double negatives and all that

heng14rwb17_ESO

This is very sad to see the skill level of players have degraded to this very low standard.
Should be able to complete any vet dungeon with 4 DD.
There is no need for any healer or tank.
PS: All of us have 3k CP.

Rowjoh

I recently decided to try for some of the more interesting monster helms by doing vet DLC dungeons, none of which I had done before.

I ran a total of 5 vet dungeons as a dps, all via group finder, and each time the tank and healer were genuine, and the group understanding and helpful with the mechanics. They even stuck around at the end to offer unwanted gear drops.

Needless to say I got everything I needed and the whole experience was a joy.

LalMirchi

A rather strange and very anecdotal experience in Banished Cells the other day.

One DD was offline the whole run, the other stuck att the entrance and never caught up. I just followed the tank as a healer and we cleared the dungeon, just the two of us. Took some time, but we did it!

Tank + Healer FTW!!!

Jarl_Ironheart

Rowjoh wrote: »

I recently decided to try for some of the more interesting monster helms by doing vet DLC dungeons, none of which I had done before.

I ran a total of 5 vet dungeons as a dps, all via group finder, and each time the tank and healer were genuine, and the group understanding and helpful with the mechanics. They even stuck around at the end to offer unwanted gear drops.

Needless to say I got everything I needed and the whole experience was a joy.

Its a good feeling when you have group like that and everything falls into place

Eric_Prince

To be honest, I just don't understand why 'fake healers' can't slot healing skills to at least do a little damage, a little healing. The other night I did just that. With blastbones I did enough damage to not be useless. All other four slots were healing. I wasn't entirely faking. Well, I had my DD gear, sure. But I was healing. Actually, I was healing better than most randoms I fought with. Neither of my random comrades fell beneath 75% of their health.

Is it really so hard to do, you useless fake healers? Because me, in bad gear, on my first healing ever, did better job than all of you.

This is exactly why I vote for kick on every true fake healer I see. Because if you can't slot just a few healing skills, you're just garbage and belong in a dumpster, not in a group.

stevenyaub16_ESO

Normal dungeons (inc DLC) are solo content for some players so the holy trinity isn't required in their eyes. Even on vet alot if dungeons don't require a healer or a real tank.

There's not much that can be done with the discrepancy in player experience.

The only way this can be solved is with a party finder someone suggest on the forums recently, that way those kinda players would like use it to form groups with like minded players for fast runs, leaving queuing for the regular folk.

MalEducado

you can create a tank... and tanking all the time, ok?

James-Wayne

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why

ButternutJam

I do both and have no regrets, this is what pro leaderboard *** bottling players do to harass newbies so don't get offended.

SpiritofESO

endgamesmug

Before trials were a big thing pvp was what you ended up in.I believe learning to avoid damage,interrupting,blocking,keeping heals and buffs up and doing decent damage in pvp set me up very well for pve dungeons i recommend it to new players.

svendf

It´s quite easy really. They lost control of their game. It´s run by player´s, who don´t care about you or anybody else (to put it nice).

The best you can do OP, is get away from it. It´s not healthy for you in the long run.

Good luck

Iselin

James-Wayne wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why

Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.

There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.

Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.

Glantir

If fake roles are a problem depends on the dungeon and the rest of the group. Most of times fake healers are no problem. Everyone can slot self heal.

Fake tanks can be a bigger problem, e.g. Falkreath where the Minotaurs one hit everything

One day i was in Bloodroot Forge random normal and the tank was a fake tank and we couldnt finish the dungeon bc we always died on the on Boss on the Isle in the great lava pool lol...

Hasenpfote

Healing is not really hard as well as tanking. But if yoi have a grp with a full heal and a full tank paired with 2 fake dps, you can just this dungeon because it will need 1 hour to clear this dungeon.

Zezin

Iselin wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why

Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.

There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.

Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.

Yeah my tank build is not as complete as other tanks builds but it's still good! I can complete all vanilla vet and normal dlc content in my Whorl of the Depthts, Zaan, Pillar of nirn and Sea Serpent's coil, oh! I also use use 9 dps skills and a heal and it just works everyone is happy as they see how much my support increases the group damage by like double(sometimes triple bless them 75% group damage screenshots I have).








People literally use heavy armor in DD builds and people say they're not fake DPS? if that's the case then I'm a tank on medium armor with a taunt(inner beast's buff is so good I consider it a dps skill lol ofc I don't use it if I'm not on the tank role tho before anyone asks) and a heal. And it's not as if I don't have tank characters to do randoms in either I do, I just refuse to have to wait triple the necessary time to complete something I can do by myself in less time as a damage dealer, if ZoS doesn't want me to do this they can just release a solo random option and BOOM, I'm gone from random normal group finder.

Harry_Toes

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

As someone who runs dungeons (when I have time) as tank or healer exclusively - absolutely THIS.

To be fair, when I'm running a daily random PUG, I am often slotted into a beginner dungeon with sub level 50 players.

GloatingSwine

Zezin wrote: »

People literally use heavy armor in DD builds and people say they're not fake DPS? if that's the case then I'm a tank on medium armor with a taunt(inner beast's buff is so good I consider it a dps skill lol ofc I don't use it if I'm not on the tank role tho before anyone asks) and a heal.

You can be a tank in any armour you please. Block mitigation is more important for most situations than resistances, and you can get resistances from Major Resolve (and maybe minor if you have a healer).

Having a taunt, giving breach, and at least trying to stack mobs a bit is the 101 of tanking, after all.

Zezin

GloatingSwine wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

People literally use heavy armor in DD builds and people say they're not fake DPS? if that's the case then I'm a tank on medium armor with a taunt(inner beast's buff is so good I consider it a dps skill lol ofc I don't use it if I'm not on the tank role tho before anyone asks) and a heal.

You can be a tank in any armour you please. Block mitigation is more important for most situations than resistances, and you can get resistances from Major Resolve (and maybe minor if you have a healer).

Having a taunt, giving breach, and at least trying to stack mobs a bit is the 101 of tanking, after all.

I'm just a bad tank tho, I roll dodge instead of blocking! Also caltrops for AOE major breach baby

edit: couldn't you say doing more damage than your tank is the 101 of dps

FrancisCrawford

Harry_Toes wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

As someone who runs dungeons (when I have time) as tank or healer exclusively - absolutely THIS.

To be fair, when I'm running a daily random PUG, I am often slotted into a beginner dungeon with sub level 50 players.

I'm the kind of player who has very rarely, in any patch, parsed over 25K on a 3 million dummy.

I've often done over 40% of group damage while healing and buffing, and occasionally over 60%.

Jarl_Ironheart

GloatingSwine wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

People literally use heavy armor in DD builds and people say they're not fake DPS? if that's the case then I'm a tank on medium armor with a taunt(inner beast's buff is so good I consider it a dps skill lol ofc I don't use it if I'm not on the tank role tho before anyone asks) and a heal.

You can be a tank in any armour you please. Block mitigation is more important for most situations than resistances, and you can get resistances from Major Resolve (and maybe minor if you have a healer).

Having a taunt, giving breach, and at least trying to stack mobs a bit is the 101 of tanking, after all.

Agreed. I think it's healthy for the game that dps can play in heavy armor and tanks can in medium. It's give more variety versus the same thing