The amount of fake tanks and fake healers is ridiculous

Iselin

As I see it there are two main problems, both with easy solutions.

1. The extra XP rewards for the daily and the 10 transmute orbs are the same for normal or vet. Increase the XP for vet and double the transmute orbs and you will instantly get a lot of players Qing for vet random instead of normal.
2. Fix the slow replacement bug that has been around for months. With the bug as it currently is, if you kick someone from the group 99% of the time you will just have to do it with 3 and maybe a companion. If you're lucky you'll get a replacement 15 minutes later near the last boss.

That won't fix it all forever obviously and there will still be self-entitled people lying about their role to get in quicker but it's harder to get away with those shenanigans in vet especially if the kick/replace system is working properly.

Molydeus

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

You don't even realize that you have the same bias. Your perspective is different than everyone else's BECAUSE you are a tank. Fake tanks are a REAL problem that a LOT of people experience. "Fake dps" isn't a thing though; you're thinking of bad or poor dps, which isn't the same thing as dps queuing as tanks or heals to skip the queue.

What about a DPS that queues with a sword/shield, taunt and inner rage slotted and running around doing 5k damage on boss fights? Excuse being " I am new to ESO"

I would say that qualifies as a fake dps, an di have met my fair share of this kind of player especially dring this Undaunted event so far

In that example the player is in tank spec and they could get instant queues AS A TANK so why queue up as dps? That is just a bad player, not a faker. Nobody would fake dps to get a 10x longer queue.

deleted221205-002626

I really like how WOW did it with a sort of trial for each spec for certification to get into tougher stuff.. They have something like Vateshran hollows in place for each spec for certification or you just cant even queue. We need that here for veteran content!!

Elendir2am

I am finding one really sad thing during reading this thread:
"You don't need real tank in normal dungeon." and "Players want to do it as fast as possible and prefer DD instead tank therefore".

Why am I finding it sad? Because it shows, how little experience have some players with good tanking.
Do you want your reward for random daily as fast as possible, then you want good tank in your group.

Your DPS with good tank will be 4 times higher, so 4th DD is far from best solution. Tank master not only buffs your damage, make armor of your enemies in potato. They will also stack them in one pile so your AoE will hit all of them.

What do you think is difference in damage of blastbone skeleton, without buff, hitting one enemy without debuff and damage of buffed blastboune skeleton hitting all enemies in room with breach debuff?

No, T+(2DD+H)/(3DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3DD+H)/4DD

Vulkunne

Elendir2am wrote: »

I am finding one really sad thing during reading this thread:
"You don't need real tank in normal dungeon." and "Players want to do it as fast as possible and prefer DD instead tank therefore".

Why am I finding it sad? Because it shows, how little experience have some players with good tanking.
Do you want your reward for random daily as fast as possible, then you want good tank in your group.

Your DPS with good tank will be 4 times higher, so 4th DD is far from best solution. Tank master not only buffs your damage, make armor of your enemies in potato. They will also stack them in one pile so your AoE will hit all of them.

What do you think is difference in damage of blastbone skeleton, without buff, hitting one enemy without debuff and damage of buffed blastboune skeleton hitting all enemies in room with breach debuff?

No, T+(2DD+H)/(3DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3DD+H)/4DD

Have years of experience running 4-man groups and all of my tanks contributed generously to damage as much as possible.

Nothing new to see here as there is no substitute for Good DPS. Devs don't like to hear this and some others won't as well but DPS is next to godliness. Besides, I've seen my share of tanks who really provide little or no real value to the group. Case in point, one time I was in Banished Cells and this silly fellow... stands on like a small pillar and he's just sitting there swinging it at the boss, not aggroing the Deadroths, not contributing to damage (or heals even), he's not doing anything just aggroing the nearest Daedroth and maybe the boss when he spawns close. There was no tactical oversight as to how to tackle the adds, there was no real work being done by the tank, to stay alive even, it was all dumped onto the DPS and Healer who could barely stay alive themselves yet alone carry someone not contributing. And this clown was blaming us for the machine breaking down when if he had tried, he should have been doing more, much more.

And I've seen this behavior so many times. If it means less Tanks, which there will still be some around, but sometimes less is more. As for the rest well all I can is we're all probably better off without them anyways.

tmbrinks

Elendir2am wrote: »

I am finding one really sad thing during reading this thread:
"You don't need real tank in normal dungeon." and "Players want to do it as fast as possible and prefer DD instead tank therefore".

Why am I finding it sad? Because it shows, how little experience have some players with good tanking.
Do you want your reward for random daily as fast as possible, then you want good tank in your group.

Your DPS with good tank will be 4 times higher, so 4th DD is far from best solution. Tank master not only buffs your damage, make armor of your enemies in potato. They will also stack them in one pile so your AoE will hit all of them.

What do you think is difference in damage of blastbone skeleton, without buff, hitting one enemy without debuff and damage of buffed blastboune skeleton hitting all enemies in room with breach debuff?

No, T+(2DD+H)/(3DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3DD+H)/4DD

I could take 4 players from my raid group. 1T, 2DD, 1H in any normal dungeon versus 4 DD in the same dungeon and I guarantee, with zero doubt, the 4DD group would finish first.

Things die so quickly in normals you don't even debuff 90% of the mobs.

There is no way that it's 4x higher... the debuffs provided are around a 20-30% boost to damage to the 2 DDs in your group, and a 3rd/4th would be 100% each (assuming all 4 DDs to the same damage).

The math simply doesn't work.

Elendir2am

tmbrinks wrote: »

I could take 4 players from my raid group. 1T, 2DD, 1H in any normal dungeon versus 4 DD in the same dungeon and I guarantee, with zero doubt, the 4DD group would finish first.

Things die so quickly in normals you don't even debuff 90% of the mobs.

There is no way that it's 4x higher... the debuffs provided are around a 20-30% boost to damage to the 2 DDs in your group, and a 3rd/4th would be 100% each (assuming all 4 DDs to the same damage).

The math simply doesn't work.

Because you don't know, what good tank is and you decide to ignore my example.

If you are hitting all mobs at once, your DPS is skyrocketing. Everybody who did some serious progress rides in trials know, that tank are stacking mobs on one place and it is major influence on whole DPS performance.

Same is in normal dungeon. I have all mobs on one place with mayor breach 5 second after I enter room. That place is obvious 2 second (what is normyly my time i am ahead) after my enter so DD can through 2 AoE there. It means, that we can continu 6 secound after my entry in room.
Your 4DD need to find DD scattered around walls and pick them one by one, with exception of few, who are stacked already.

There is no way in hell, how would your 4DD run was faster then run with master tank. It is only about how little you have experience with good tanking.

Agenericname

Elendir2am wrote: »

I am finding one really sad thing during reading this thread:
"You don't need real tank in normal dungeon." and "Players want to do it as fast as possible and prefer DD instead tank therefore".

Why am I finding it sad? Because it shows, how little experience have some players with good tanking.
Do you want your reward for random daily as fast as possible, then you want good tank in your group.

Your DPS with good tank will be 4 times higher, so 4th DD is far from best solution. Tank master not only buffs your damage, make armor of your enemies in potato. They will also stack them in one pile so your AoE will hit all of them.

What do you think is difference in damage of blastbone skeleton, without buff, hitting one enemy without debuff and damage of buffed blastboune skeleton hitting all enemies in room with breach debuff?

No, T+(2DD+H)/(3DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3DD+H)/4DD

I dont think that its 4 times higher. Its rougly 1% per 500 pen for a max of around 36% or 18.2k pen. The tank normally brings 12k pen to the table with infused crusher and pierce armor.

Prior to U35 your raw sd/wd translated to your light attack damage, without any additional modifiers like crit, empower, vMA staff, etc. So U35 was slight and indirect nerf to the overall power of penetration since it reduced the impact of that source of damage. Everything still works the same way, but the loss in pen translates to slightly less loss in damage now.

I havent looked at a table in a while, as in years, but is anything in a normal dungeon 18k resist? Even vMA isnt uniformly that high. Id have a hard time believing that normal was, but that means the pen is worth less in normal than it is in vet.

So when you all of the buffs that a good tank and healer can bring to a group, with good DPS, the closest Ive seen them get is close to 100%. Meaning that combined, and the two DPS usually contribute with minor buffs as well, can get close to what a 3rd DPS would be. Ive never seen 4 times higher and Im not sure the math supports that, not apples to apples anyway.

That said, I dont see anything wrong with running a build like this; https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/614504/how-to-fake-tank-without-faking-it/p1
There is less of a requirement for health, less of a need for the pen, and long duration buff/debuffs matter less in fights that ended in seconds anyway. So, it seems like more of an efficient approach in that content.

Anyway, Im glad we have vet dungeons.

tmbrinks

Elendir2am wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I could take 4 players from my raid group. 1T, 2DD, 1H in any normal dungeon versus 4 DD in the same dungeon and I guarantee, with zero doubt, the 4DD group would finish first.

Things die so quickly in normals you don't even debuff 90% of the mobs.

There is no way that it's 4x higher... the debuffs provided are around a 20-30% boost to damage to the 2 DDs in your group, and a 3rd/4th would be 100% each (assuming all 4 DDs to the same damage).

The math simply doesn't work.

Because you don't know, what good tank is and you decide to ignore my example.

If you are hitting all mobs at once, your DPS is skyrocketing. Everybody who did some serious progress rides in trials know, that tank are stacking mobs on one place and it is major influence on whole DPS performance.

Same is in normal dungeon. I have all mobs on one place with mayor breach 5 second after I enter room. That place is obvious 2 second (what is normyly my time i am ahead) after my enter so DD can through 2 AoE there. It means, that we can continu 6 secound after my entry in room.
Your 4DD need to find DD scattered around walls and pick them one by one, with exception of few, who are stacked already.

There is no way in hell, how would your 4DD run was faster then run with master tank. It is only about how little you have experience with good tanking.

If the trash mobs are alive after 5s in a normal dungeon, the DPS are bad.

I think I am quite familiar with good tanking. I have run just a few dungeons and trials in this game.

SaffronCitrusflower

If fake tanks and fake healers are such an issue for you, just make a tank and/or a healer and queue as that role. Then you'll know for sure there will be a true tank or healer in the group.

I run a true tank and queue's are instant and runs are never a problem for me.

Elendir2am

tmbrinks wrote: »

If the trash mobs are alive after 5s in a normal dungeon, the DPS are bad.

I think I am quite familiar with good tanking. I have run just a few dungeons and trials in this game.

Most of that 5 second is running, only 2 secound is about using 2 skills. [snip]

Every time, I do dungeon (as DD) with real tank in group, it is faster than with fake tank (your additional DD). And they do only some basic tanking. So your trying to advocate fake tanking as faster variant of run is fals.

[edited for baiting]

svendf

Vulkunne wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

Okay, so I didn't read all 9 pages of responses, take that information when viewing my statement here.

I think, first, that a lot of the issue we have stems from the fact that there is a sense of elitism in this game when it comes to DPS. There are quite a few players who fall into the Skinner's Box of "Make numbers get bigger, get praised, elicit dopamine response", or as my wife likes to say "DPS make numbers go BRRRR".

Tanking is, to me, an inherently selfless role, as in you aren't there to see your numbers go into 5 digits when you crit, you don't want to have the final shot on the boss, and you aren't interested in proving how much damage you can do while someone else is just starting their rotation. Healing falls into the "selfless" descriptor as well, IMO.

This isn't to say that DPS is a selfish role, to be truly selfish would be to rely entirely on yourself, so a solo build going into a dungeon and sprinting ahead of anyone, even when they say, "I'm questing please wait" or "Stop fighting mobs I'm changing skills." (I was guilty of the second yesterday as I was overzealously trying to clear the beach on Tempest Island to make the run smooth for the quester in the group)

Tanking normal dungeons isn't, as some have stated, a crutch or useless. It is essential in teaching tanks how to perform their roles in later content. You learn mechanics on enemies that later appear as standard mob types in more difficult content, or who use similar moves later on. Learning how to counter certain moves, which moves have no counter or when to interrupt vs when to dodge is essential. Learning how to control the adds in the boss fight is essential. Knowing when to chain vs when to use inner rage, knowing that you can chain an atronach to pull aggro and then taunt it even though you don't drag it to you. Knowing how to combo from chains into choking talons on a DK. All of these lessons come from tanking normal dungeons.

Fake tanks aren't just making the game less fun for people, they are insulting the time that people put into learning these mechanics. They are telling those that take the time to learn the role that they are useless and shouldn't bother. That's never cool.

Yeah, you might save yourself a few minutes in the short term, but in the long term you may also be killing someone's enjoyment of a game that they spent their money and time on, in order to have fun, simply because you are more concerned with making the world conform to you.

That always sucks.

Tl;Dr - Tanking takes time and learning it is worthwhile, calling it useless is insulting.

No ZOS sets are insulting your time. People are just using the resources given to them by the Devs.

I do agree with you, that ZOS are responseble for, what they put into the game. That said. Don´t you really beleive that some player´s are responseble as well ? Because I do beleive they are as they deside, what to do. Couldn´t they just say. Sorry ZOS, we are not playing your game that way, as too many people are getting their game ruined by it.

I do agree to 100%, what the poster you qoute are saying. I rolled out three tanks just to get out runned. Who wanna be a part in that ? I mean in their very own public tool (gf).

[snip]

[edited for bashing]

tmbrinks

Elendir2am wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

If the trash mobs are alive after 5s in a normal dungeon, the DPS are bad.

I think I am quite familiar with good tanking. I have run just a few dungeons and trials in this game.

Most of that 5 second is running, only 2 secound is about using 2 skills. [snip]

Every time, I do dungeon (as DD) with real tank in group, it is faster than with fake tank (your additional DD). And they do only some basic tanking. So your trying to advocate fake tanking as faster variant of run is fals.

I say this not to brag, but I have to since you're so dismissive of anything I say. I have every dungeon trifecta achievement in the game, other than Earthen Root Forge, which my group starts prog on tonight (already have the vetHM clear).

Again, I am quite familiar with good, even elite, tanking. 4 competent DDs will be faster though any normal dungeon than the standard "trinity" group, regardless of tank skill.

N00BxV1

I think everyone can agree that whenever you play with random groups formed by the activity finder (normal and veteran), if you play X role then you're sometimes going to encounter people that are bad at playing Y and Z roles.

ZOS_Lunar

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Sarannah

Haven't noticed any difference in group DPS before and after the patch(U35)... buffs/debuffs do nothing if the DPS can't attack the monsters. Groups need a good tank, just using buff sets isn't going to increase the DPS! Don't know why players always think that.

Only good tanking will increase the DPS! Make sure noone is under attack.

PS: Did another 10 or so dungeons, only one with average DPS. Every other group, still high DPS.

svendf

Vulkunne wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

I am finding one really sad thing during reading this thread:
"You don't need real tank in normal dungeon." and "Players want to do it as fast as possible and prefer DD instead tank therefore".

Why am I finding it sad? Because it shows, how little experience have some players with good tanking.
Do you want your reward for random daily as fast as possible, then you want good tank in your group.

Your DPS with good tank will be 4 times higher, so 4th DD is far from best solution. Tank master not only buffs your damage, make armor of your enemies in potato. They will also stack them in one pile so your AoE will hit all of them.

What do you think is difference in damage of blastbone skeleton, without buff, hitting one enemy without debuff and damage of buffed blastboune skeleton hitting all enemies in room with breach debuff?

No, T+(2DD+H)/(3DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3DD+H)/4DD

Have years of experience running 4-man groups and all of my tanks contributed generously to damage as much as possible.

Nothing new to see here as there is no substitute for Good DPS. Devs don't like to hear this and some others won't as well but DPS is next to godliness. Besides, I've seen my share of tanks who really provide little or no real value to the group. Case in point, one time I was in Banished Cells and this silly fellow... stands on like a small pillar and he's just sitting there swinging it at the boss, not aggroing the Deadroths, not contributing to damage (or heals even), he's not doing anything just aggroing the nearest Daedroth and maybe the boss when he spawns close. There was no tactical oversight as to how to tackle the adds, there was no real work being done by the tank, to stay alive even, it was all dumped onto the DPS and Healer who could barely stay alive themselves yet alone carry someone not contributing. And this clown was blaming us for the machine breaking down when if he had tried, he should have been doing more, much more.

And I've seen this behavior so many times. If it means less Tanks, which there will still be some around, but sometimes less is more. As for the rest well all I can is we're all probably better off without them anyways.

Could it be that, this tank, where in the process of learning his role ? Anyone asked him ? I often see in this forum, that tanks shouldn´t waste any time in normal dungeons, learning. I see those things happen in another mmo, which have become my main mmo now. It´s so easy to see if they are in a learning process and it´s absolutly ok if he forgot to turn on his tank stance and I pay the price for it on my DD.

In ESO you can´t be really sure if it´s a "tank" or not. I can go into a trial,dungeon or raid and be 100% sure - the three tanks in the raid is tanks, the healers are healers. If it goes wrong it´s a learning process or just bad luck, It´s all nice and fine, we know you are in here to learn.

In ESO it´s the other way around. The tank could very well be a tank listening too those, who say "do vet". You could have been in a group with a PvP, a fake one. One, who is learning and new to the job. One, who is just sick and tired, being out runned by speedy DD´s and a fake healer and now he payed you a visit.

Who is running the game, here ? Who ?

Thank You

Destyran

Healers aren’t relevant in any dungeons tbh.

Agenericname

Destyran wrote: »

Healers aren’t relevant in any dungeons tbh.

I wouldnt say that. Healers are very useful, in some dungeons. In a random normal? Maybe not, but tanks arent either. I think most experienced tanks and healers either adapt their builds to the difficulty of the content, avoid it, or simply suffer through it because of the FOMO.

The first boss of Earthen Root Enclave on Hard Mode. If you're burning the last phase, which is the only way that Ive been able to complete it or seen it done, there's a lot of incoming damage. You have to mitigate that somehow. The last boss as well, for the tank mostly.

There are a large number that you can survive without a healer, but youre giving up major slayer, major courage, possibly berserker, and some sustain. There are groups that can make a 1T3DD comp work, but many that Ive ran with are simply emulating the cool kids and have more issues than they would have had ran with a healer. The groups that can pull that off are typically a little more optimized for it and arent in the queue.

This is vet content of course, and mostly vet DLC, which is where the problem of fake roles mostly isnt. Thats coincidentally where our contributions feel the most impactful. Why would an experienced tank or healer want to run normals? They boring and we arent needed. Its really not hard to figure out why they arent there.

omnidoh

As a primary healer, I rather enjoy watching folks die by standing in stupid, whenever they decide that my role is irrelevant in any specific dungeon. Granted, this doesn't happen often in vanilla dungeons, but whenever it does happen, it's almost always in veteran.

Now there are a few players I've had the privilege of grouping with that have sufficient finesse and throughput to sustain enough self-heals not to require a dedicated healer, but these are quite often very niche, and I can count on one hand the number I personally know.

N00BxV1

The past couple weeks I've lost count of how many times someone in a random dungeon group has asked me what gear am I using on my tanks, how am I grouping up all the adds, why is their damage feel so high, appreciating the smooth runs, etc.

It's sad that people have to deal with fake tanks and healers then when they get into veteran dungeons it blows their mind what an actual support can do to help them.

Arbit

Very surprised to get a unashamed fake tank on vet frostvault just now. Would love to name and shame such an individual but I'll refrain. Really hate that people have no shame when it comes to doing this sometimes.

Drammanoth

I got used to the fact that there are no tanks, or there are fake tanks.

So I simply run to the bosses, try to solo them, get the loot and be done with that.

Others? ...

Is this a wrong attititude? Yes. I've been made to adopt it. By players who prefer to rush head on stead of clearing mobs and getting experience, thus helping other players.

OsUfi

I've gone full 180 during this event from not minding fake tanks that can at least bring something to the table, to absolutely hating them.

There was once a time when 2000+ CP psycho 100k+ DPS's were the only ones queuing as fake tanks. They'd arrive and slaughter everything so fast nobody needed to tank anything.

This last few months, and especially during this event, the fake tanks have pee-weak DPS and no concept of standing still so everyone's AoEs can blast down mobs. Literally, they drag short dungeons out to lengthy ones with their incompetence. I'd far rather have a tank gathering up spawn for AoE damage and not running bosses around in wide circles. I'm certain dungeons would be faster.

Destyran wrote: »

Healers aren’t relevant in any dungeons tbh.

I disagree. Healers in ESO bring something to the table other than healing. My Warden StamHealer bring lots of AoE damage along with Spell Power Cure and Powerful Assault. He runs one bar, with 2 heals, 1 buff, and 2 damage spells.

My one bar NB crit healer also two heals, with Funnel Health and Sap Essence combined with her 80% crit chance means she can certainly help clear mobs and contribute at bosses, while keeper the weaker members in PUGs up.

If a healer only has heals on them, well, that's less good. But most know that pure heals aren't needed in normal mode.

jle30303

I kind of agree with that: I don't mind a fake tank or healer who is a really good DD. If you're a useless DD, though, you have no business queueing as a fake healer because you're fulfilling *neither* role.

Iselin

OsUfi wrote: »

If a healer only has heals on them, well, that's less good. But most know that pure heals aren't needed in normal mode.

You'd be surprised how often even high CP players need it in DLC normals.

I have 3 healers but two are hybrids with DPS CP and gear (although I do use a healer 2-piece when I have them doing dungeons.) My one full healer with CP and all gear done for healing can DPS with jabs and beam but I also slot Barrier for those groups that need constant healing so I can grab a few seconds here and there when I can just help out with DPS.

The thing is that the range of difficulty in normal dungeons from trivial to challenge is huge and you can't predict which you'll get going into a random just like you can't predict who the other 3 players with you will be.

What one of the incompetent fake tanks can get away with in FG1 or Spindle1 won't work in most of the newer DLC dungeons if that's what you get.

And you're absolutely right: the times when the fake tank in a random normal is someone with 40K+ DPS who can melt content while self-healing are pretty rare. It is mostly incompetent, squishy, 10K- DPSer wannabes doing it these days. Some can't even speed run FG1 (which has been all the rage during this event) without dying one or more times, but they're the first ones to take off running. It's kind of entertaining actually.

MidniteOwl1913

OsUfi wrote: »

I've gone full 180 during this event from not minding fake tanks that can at least bring something to the table, to absolutely hating them.

There was once a time when 2000+ CP psycho 100k+ DPS's were the only ones queuing as fake tanks. They'd arrive and slaughter everything so fast nobody needed to tank anything.

This last few months, and especially during this event, the fake tanks have pee-weak DPS and no concept of standing still so everyone's AoEs can blast down mobs. Literally, they drag short dungeons out to lengthy ones with their incompetence. I'd far rather have a tank gathering up spawn for AoE damage and not running bosses around in wide circles. I'm certain dungeons would be faster.

Destyran wrote: »

Healers aren’t relevant in any dungeons tbh.

I disagree. Healers in ESO bring something to the table other than healing. My Warden StamHealer bring lots of AoE damage along with Spell Power Cure and Powerful Assault. He runs one bar, with 2 heals, 1 buff, and 2 damage spells.

My one bar NB crit healer also two heals, with Funnel Health and Sap Essence combined with her 80% crit chance means she can certainly help clear mobs and contribute at bosses, while keeper the weaker members in PUGs up.

If a healer only has heals on them, well, that's less good. But most know that pure heals aren't needed in normal mode.

Yeah for normal dungeons I have a two-bar setup, one mainly heals, the other mainly DPS. Some pugs I stay mostly on the front bar heals, some mostly on the back bar DPS. Some groups I never get off the front bar because they need that much support. Normals is where people start, and sometimes they just need more support.

MidniteOwl1913

Iselin wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

If a healer only has heals on them, well, that's less good. But most know that pure heals aren't needed in normal mode.

You'd be surprised how often even high CP players need it in DLC normals.

I have 3 healers but two are hybrids with DPS CP and gear (although I do use a healer 2-piece when I have them doing dungeons.) My one full healer with CP and all gear done for healing can DPS with jabs and beam but I also slot Barrier for those groups that need constant healing so I can grab a few seconds here and there when I can just help out with DPS.

The thing is that the range of difficulty in normal dungeons from trivial to challenge is huge and you can't predict which you'll get going into a random just like you can't predict who the other 3 players with you will be.

What one of the incompetent fake tanks can get away with in FG1 or Spindle1 won't work in most of the newer DLC dungeons if that's what you get.

And you're absolutely right: the times when the fake tank in a random normal is someone with 40K+ DPS who can melt content while self-healing are pretty rare. It is mostly incompetent, squishy, 10K- DPSer wannabes doing it these days. Some can't even speed run FG1 (which has been all the rage during this event) without dying one or more times, but they're the first ones to take off running. It's kind of entertaining actually.

So what's up with all the speedrunning of FG? I've been wondering. I keep seeing people asking for speed runners in zone chat all weekend...

Iselin

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

If a healer only has heals on them, well, that's less good. But most know that pure heals aren't needed in normal mode.

You'd be surprised how often even high CP players need it in DLC normals.

I have 3 healers but two are hybrids with DPS CP and gear (although I do use a healer 2-piece when I have them doing dungeons.) My one full healer with CP and all gear done for healing can DPS with jabs and beam but I also slot Barrier for those groups that need constant healing so I can grab a few seconds here and there when I can just help out with DPS.

The thing is that the range of difficulty in normal dungeons from trivial to challenge is huge and you can't predict which you'll get going into a random just like you can't predict who the other 3 players with you will be.

What one of the incompetent fake tanks can get away with in FG1 or Spindle1 won't work in most of the newer DLC dungeons if that's what you get.

And you're absolutely right: the times when the fake tank in a random normal is someone with 40K+ DPS who can melt content while self-healing are pretty rare. It is mostly incompetent, squishy, 10K- DPSer wannabes doing it these days. Some can't even speed run FG1 (which has been all the rage during this event) without dying one or more times, but they're the first ones to take off running. It's kind of entertaining actually.

So what's up with all the speedrunning of FG? I've been wondering. I keep seeing people asking for speed runners in zone chat all weekend...

It's the event. You can get the extra Undaunted reward box in 3-5 minutes. Some are doing nothing but FG1 for that reason. They only fight the goblin boss to unlock the door and then go in the water to skip everything but the final boss.

I dread getting it again when I Q for a random

Androrix

Ugggh. I had the ungal grotto speed run thing in randoom this morning. It makes the experience so unenjoyable. Agree.