The amount of fake tanks and fake healers is ridiculous

Jarl_Ironheart

I've been leveling a Necro tank lately trying to get him to my CP. I normally grind dungeons to keep my tanking skulls from getting rusty and lately the amount of PUGs I get into where the "healer" is a Orc or high elf with a inferno staff or two hander with no healing skills that runs on ahead of the group is too many to count. When I tried leveling as a dps the amount of players who put tank role where of course annoying DPS who can't be bothered to wait in que so they take the tank role and THEN try to make the dungeon race. It's even more aggravating when the fake tanks/healers don't even finish mobs. They aggro them then run on ahead expecting you to do kill them.

This is such a serious issue because new players will see this behavior a lot and some will think it's acceptable and the way things are done. But then they get into a hard dungeon and they just ruin the run for everyone or they get frustrated when they pull the adds instead of the tank and just die. I'm not sure how ZOS will address this issue if they ever will but it's become so much worse than it was when I started in 2017.

Also, stop running ahead of your tanks, let us group up all the enemies then we can AOE melt them instead of running around the room like a skooma filled madman trying to kill some enemies at a time. It'll make the dungeon go much faster than you acting like it's the fortune 500.

EDIT: My jabs at the Orcs and High Elves was a joke so don't dig too deeply into that or take offense unless you want to make a joke about my people the Nords. Then by all means.

OrkWizard

If you want to level up fast, slot damage skills and a taunt. Also what is your issue with orc spell casters [snip]?

[edited for baiting]

SpacemanSpiff1

why did have to get racial with it?

Gray_howling_parrot

All the more reason to get into veteran content where this behavior, unless coordinated, is very unwelcome. Most people just want to run the normal dungeons (often random for these people) as fast as humanly possible because they’re farming transmutes. I honestly welcome it in normals because more dps means faster completion of the random normal 🤷🏻‍♂️

BUT it is very irritating for new players who don’t understand this, understand mechanics and who want to quest. 100%

Gray_howling_parrot

To coincide with this, they need to make random veterans much more enticing so higher level players would prefer to run those and leave the normals to new players, less experienced players and people under level 50

Bat

I feel you for that, I often queue as a DD and having fake support roles in the group can really ruin the fun in many of the dungeons, especially veteran DLC content where fakers just assume that every other DD would come specd for 3-4 DD runs for some inexplicable reason. However, I've also experienced tanks who for seemingly no reason drag their bottoms behind the rest of the team and when the team goes ahead and kills a few very minor and harmless mobs, become rather upset and leave the group. That's also pretty frustrating. If you run normal difficulty dungeons for levelling, then perhaps sometimes there is also a strategically sensible reason reason for not stopping to kill every mob, as to get to the levelling part of the dungeon in less time. An example would be Elden Hollow I, where there aren't any doors or portals to walk through before reaching the final boss, and where mob fights might not be necessary to engage in. I don't necessarily condone running ahead of a tank though, it doesn't make much sense in a lot of content.

OrkWizard

Jaustink wrote: »

To coincide with this, they need to make random veterans much more enticing so higher level players would prefer to run those and leave the normals to new players, less experienced players and people under level 50

Honestly the queuing system is broken and outdated. Fix the problems and give rvd 50 transmutes instead of 10, but only allow the daily reward from either normal or vet.

Bat

Jaustink wrote: »

To coincide with this, they need to make random veterans much more enticing so higher level players would prefer to run those and leave the normals to new players, less experienced players and people under level 50

How would they make random veteran runs more enticing? Better rewards/more XP/more transmute crystals?

Because I would predict that those sort of rewards would probably entice also a lot of inexperienced/newer players to queue for that setting as soon they could, and bring about perhaps more groups that aren't prepared to clear content of that type of difficulty, which would perhaps lead to increased frustration.

ForzaRammer

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

OrkWizard

Bat wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

To coincide with this, they need to make random veterans much more enticing so higher level players would prefer to run those and leave the normals to new players, less experienced players and people under level 50

How would they make random veteran runs more enticing? Better rewards/more XP/more transmute crystals?

Because I would predict that those sort of rewards would probably entice also a lot of inexperienced/newer players to queue for that setting as soon they could, and bring about perhaps more groups that aren't prepared to clear content of that type of difficulty, which would perhaps lead to increased frustration.

Good players would run pre made groups for rvd's if the transmute reward was more enticing, the random queues would probably be awful early on but it would soon fix itself when the players that can't consistently clear them go back to normals.

Zezin

This again? Haven't we done this enough?

OrkWizard

Zezin wrote: »

This again? Haven't we done this enough?

fake role bad rnd 2 herd

Troodon80

Race has very little to do with anything outside of serious end game. Up to that point, you can roleplay whatever you want.

Outside of race (which for healer is generally viewed as altmer being best), the weapon choice is also somewhat subjective. Naturally, one would expect a restoration staff. But you have two bars. Why wouldn't you use an inferno staff in dungeon content? What would you suggest healers use?

I don't disagree that fake roles offer a negative experience for newer players, especially when that newer player ends up face-tanking a boss when a tank should have aggro, but you're arguing the wrong things. Racial choices have generally little to do with capabilities, and weapon choices are going through changes now that we have hybridisation. I've seen a couple healers running bow or two-hander with a restoration staff, just because they can get a little more DPS from it (and why not, as long as they're not actively letting people die).

Galiferno

People are quick to complain about fake tanks and healers(on normal difficulty) and say they just want to skip the queue time for DPS, which is honestly pretty true. The other side of the issue is the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue for multiple reasons: 1. these roles are not needed in the vast majority of normal dungeons 2. many supports will play with premade groups and won't risk getting a low DPS group in which they feel bored and powerless. If you want people to really tank and heal, the average player's DPS needs to go up to make it worth it, which realistically is never gonna happen. I'm a tank main with every good tank set in the game and I will never tank a random again after some of the groups I've dealt with. I'll only tank for friends and guildies.

nb_rich

Im a fake healer when it comes to doing random normal dailies since I usually just need the transmutes and can solo pretty much all normal dungeons anyways since my dps is high. Everything dies before the team even needs to be healed so why would I wait 20+ minutes (PS NA) for a healer I do not need, but when I queue up as a healer I get a dungeon instantly.

There is a lack of tanks and healers. This is probably due to the fact no one has a reason to make a tank/healer as there first character, the game also does not teach you anything about being a tank or healer besides by having symbols beside some skills. There are no quest lines/zone quests specially for tanks/healers so you will always start the game off as a dps since you need to dps to complete the zones quests.

With that being said, most tanks and healers are usually people that have experience with the game. Factoring in people don’t always want to make more then one character since they have to level all the skill lines, mount speed, redo all quests, ect, or are just satisfied with there first character the game will always lack tanks and healers.

TheGreatBlackBear

What floors me is when they queue as fake tank or healer for random vet.

Gederic

The amount of fake take and fake healer forums threads is ridiculous.

Auldwulfe

Sad part, my Imperial Templar IS a Tank -- shield and sword front, although I do use a 2H on the back for the stamped AOE to deal with trash mobs.... and I always keep a heal around, because you never know.....

And with the changes, I was asked, last night, to leave a PUG, because they "didn't want to carry the Templar" .. mind you, I am still doing the same as always, as I don't use jab, and never needed it. None of the skills I use got nerfed any more than the general nerf.....

After, one of the guys sent me an apology --- he let me know that the guy they got was a badly played DPS claiming to be a tank, no taunt..... and did as the OP described.

This is going to be a mess for a bit.... I think - but I would hope they would put in a filter... if you don't have a taunt or at least some skill that is tank oriented, it shouldn't allow you to queue as a tank.

Auldwulfe

Dem_kitkats1

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

I mean...that's risk you run in PUG rnds. You cant really complain about the caliber of players in areas that have the highest amount of new/casual players, who have little to no knowledge about builds, mechanics, and combat. Or if DDs are focused more on survivability than damage, it's because they've probably had bad experiences with fake supports. It's a vicious cycle really.

Either way, claiming that players are fake in all roles furthers the argument that fake queuing is an issue. We can't excuse bad etiquette in normals and then wonder why it bleeds into vet content.

ForzaRammer

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

I mean...that's risk you run in PUG rnds. You cant really complain about the caliber of players in areas that have the highest amount of new/casual players, who have little to no knowledge about builds, mechanics, and combat. Or if DDs are focused more on survivability than damage, it's because they've probably had bad experiences with fake supports. It's a vicious cycle really.

Either way, claiming that players are fake in all roles furthers the argument that fake queuing is an issue. We can't excuse bad etiquette in normals and then wonder why it bleeds into vet content.

Fake role queue is an issue, i am not disputing it.

I am pointing out the selective bias on calling people out.

Only going after the less prevalent problem (fake support) and ignoring the more prevalent problem (fake DD) is ridiculous.

Jarl_Ironheart

OrkWizard wrote: »

If you want to level up fast, slot damage skills and a taunt. Also what is your issue with orc spell casters [snip]?

It's unnatural and most orc spell caster I meet just yell fireball and smack somebody with a torch. In all honesty I don't have one haha. But for appearances I will act like I do.

[edited to remove quote]

Jarl_Ironheart

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

why did have to get racial with it?

I'm a Nord, it's what we do.

But mainly xuz that's the races I see do the issue the most

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Zezin wrote: »

This again? Haven't we done this enough?

I tried to post a simple "Fake Tank" build, one that satisfied the role of tank, but also allowed for high DPS and fast runs. I got flamed for it. LOL.

Firstmep

The dungeon finder is unpredictable in its nature.
Most ppl that behave like that wont change it no matter how hard others complain.
In the end most ppl are selfish, and if they want to speed run for transmutes, that's what's gonna happen.

Jarl_Ironheart

Galiferno wrote: »

People are quick to complain about fake tanks and healers(on normal difficulty) and say they just want to skip the queue time for DPS, which is honestly pretty true. The other side of the issue is the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue for multiple reasons: 1. these roles are not needed in the vast majority of normal dungeons 2. many supports will play with premade groups and won't risk getting a low DPS group in which they feel bored and powerless. If you want people to really tank and heal, the average player's DPS needs to go up to make it worth it, which realistically is never gonna happen. I'm a tank main with every good tank set in the game and I will never tank a random again after some of the groups I've dealt with. I'll only tank for friends and guildies.

I think it's more than tanking and Healer require more responsibility than DD. That isn't a stab at DD either. That and alot of people wanna do a ton of damage and be flashy plus more damage means easier overland. The game should help teach but I feel there are other issues too. Same for all MMOs

Molydeus

If I see a fake tank, I vote to kick on principle. 9 times out of 10 it passes and I have my companion tank while we wait for a real one. If it doesn't pass, I bail on the group. I can handle the timer and do something else in the mean time, but I absolutely refuse to play with fakers. You do you though.

Jarl_Ironheart

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

I mean...that's risk you run in PUG rnds. You cant really complain about the caliber of players in areas that have the highest amount of new/casual players, who have little to no knowledge about builds, mechanics, and combat. Or if DDs are focused more on survivability than damage, it's because they've probably had bad experiences with fake supports. It's a vicious cycle really.

Either way, claiming that players are fake in all roles furthers the argument that fake queuing is an issue. We can't excuse bad etiquette in normals and then wonder why it bleeds into vet content.

Fake role queue is an issue, i am not disputing it.

I am pointing out the selective bias on calling people out.

Only going after the less prevalent problem (fake support) and ignoring the more prevalent problem (fake DD) is ridiculous.

I really don't think fake DDs are a issue. At least I'm never really seem any. There are newer players or less skilled players that deal less damage but at the end of the day unless a DD is trying to heal or tank or literally doung no damage then they aren't a fake DD. Just not a good DD yet.

Jarl_Ironheart

Troodon80 wrote: »

Race has very little to do with anything outside of serious end game. Up to that point, you can roleplay whatever you want.

Outside of race (which for healer is generally viewed as altmer being best), the weapon choice is also somewhat subjective. Naturally, one would expect a restoration staff. But you have two bars. Why wouldn't you use an inferno staff in dungeon content? What would you suggest healers use?

I don't disagree that fake roles offer a negative experience for newer players, especially when that newer player ends up face-tanking a boss when a tank should have aggro, but you're arguing the wrong things. Racial choices have generally little to do with capabilities, and weapon choices are going through changes now that we have hybridisation. I've seen a couple healers running bow or two-hander with a restoration staff, just because they can get a little more DPS from it (and why not, as long as they're not actively letting people die).

My jab at race was a joke. Don't look too deep into that part

ForzaRammer

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

I mean...that's risk you run in PUG rnds. You cant really complain about the caliber of players in areas that have the highest amount of new/casual players, who have little to no knowledge about builds, mechanics, and combat. Or if DDs are focused more on survivability than damage, it's because they've probably had bad experiences with fake supports. It's a vicious cycle really.

Either way, claiming that players are fake in all roles furthers the argument that fake queuing is an issue. We can't excuse bad etiquette in normals and then wonder why it bleeds into vet content.

Fake role queue is an issue, i am not disputing it.

I am pointing out the selective bias on calling people out.

Only going after the less prevalent problem (fake support) and ignoring the more prevalent problem (fake DD) is ridiculous.

I really don't think fake DDs are a issue. At least I'm never really seem any. There are newer players or less skilled players that deal less damage but at the end of the day unless a DD is trying to heal or tank or literally doung no damage then they aren't a fake DD. Just not a good DD yet.

Nice try but no. All taunts in this game do damage, if anyone who do any damage is a real DD, then all tanks are DD.

I think you know 'tank is a subset of DD' is ridiculous.

A human player indifferent to a companion (or worse) is definitely a fake.

Jarl_Ironheart

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total

I mean...that's risk you run in PUG rnds. You cant really complain about the caliber of players in areas that have the highest amount of new/casual players, who have little to no knowledge about builds, mechanics, and combat. Or if DDs are focused more on survivability than damage, it's because they've probably had bad experiences with fake supports. It's a vicious cycle really.

Either way, claiming that players are fake in all roles furthers the argument that fake queuing is an issue. We can't excuse bad etiquette in normals and then wonder why it bleeds into vet content.

Fake role queue is an issue, i am not disputing it.

I am pointing out the selective bias on calling people out.

Only going after the less prevalent problem (fake support) and ignoring the more prevalent problem (fake DD) is ridiculous.

I really don't think fake DDs are a issue. At least I'm never really seem any. There are newer players or less skilled players that deal less damage but at the end of the day unless a DD is trying to heal or tank or literally doung no damage then they aren't a fake DD. Just not a good DD yet.

Nice try but no. All taunts in this game do damage, if anyone who do any damage is a real DD, then all tanks are DD.

I think you know 'tank is a subset of DD' is ridiculous.

A human player indifferent to a companion (or worse) is definitely a fake.

Did you read what I said? I said if a DD was taunting or trying to heal then they were a fake DD. I never said they were a true DD. I never ever said that I think tank is there for damage.

And what exactly is a fake DD to you? Please explain what that is in detail because I'm very curious.

ccfeeling

Good tank prefer 3 dps