"PVP" and "Cyrodiil" Gets you Banned on Twitch

Tra_Lalan

Banning players for using that frazes on twitch, and therefore deleting a threat about it is just unaccaptable.
Shuting peoples mouth by force isn't going to solve any problem, just make them more angry.

Great PR. Does ZOS want to discuss our (players) problems on alternative platforms? Our just make us leave the game?

TPishek

Really disheartening to see comments actively being deleted or edited, meaning they are looking at this, and there still being no statement. It feels like they don't think we're worth their time or that our opinions don't matter in the slightest.

Iron_Warrior

You didn't took the hints so they had to make it clearer. You See, in the new chapter the 3 alliances are trying to make peace but the ascendant lord, the bad guy of the story wants to make problems. So at the end of this story arc you are going to defeat him and alliances will make peace, cyrodill will turn into a pve zone and there would be no more wars. at the end maybe ascendant lord was the true hero trying to save pvp players from this terrible fate. It was all there you just had see more carefully...

Zyva

I wonder how long before this entire thread gets removed. Because thats how things are handled if there is criticism over any sort of banning.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

They are in a dammed if you do dammed if you don’t situation. They respond you better believe the thread will light up with negativity.

They don’t respond at least then maybe they can be by it in a few days and onto the next thing people are focused on.

Either way they catch negative blowback. One path you get to the other side easier.

Synaptic

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

You didn't took the hints so they had to make it clearer. You See, in the new chapter the 3 alliances are trying to make peace but the ascendant lord, the bad guy of the story wants to make problems. So at the end of this story arc you are going to defeat him and alliances will make peace, cyrodill will turn into a pve zone and there would be no more wars. at the end maybe ascendant lord was the true hero trying to save pvp players from this terrible fate. It was all there you just had see more carefully...

To be honest they should just come out and say they have no interest in further developing, balancing or improving PvP in this game in favor of pumping out store assets and furnishing items so the few of us that are left can just give up hope and move on.

FeedbackOnly

Moderation has gone too far that I can agree on

FeedbackOnly

I heard lagged in banned on twitch. People in stream where complaining about that word

TechMaybeHic

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

They are in a dammed if you do dammed if you don’t situation. They respond you better believe the thread will light up with negativity.

They don’t respond at least then maybe they can be by it in a few days and onto the next thing people are focused on.

Either way they catch negative blowback. One path you get to the other side easier.

And how did it get to this spot?

karekiz

PvP - banned
Loot Crates sold to minors - Good

EZ game boys

SeaGtGruff

The fighting over Cyrodiil is supposed to keep raging on until Cuhlecain becomes "Emperor Zero" with the help of his general, Talos, who takes the name Tiber Septim and is crowned Emperor after Cuhlecain is assassinated. And all of that takes place approximately 270 years in ESO's future. So I'm thinking the war in Cyrodiil is here to stay for a while.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

SimonThesis

Thank you, Kevin! Communication like this goes a long way. Stellar job as always.

Wolfpaw

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

Thank you for the update.

Solantris

Thank you for hearing us and giving us a reply Kevin

karekiz

Nomadic_Atmoran

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

That's nice. I'd still love to know why those words were bannable in the first place. I suspect we won't be hearing anything on that front though.

Ratzkifal

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

Sadly the "heavy-handed" moderation seems to be ever-present as well. But it's good to know that you've updated the moderation training! Let's hope things improve from here!

auz

They agree that the moderation was heavy handed. That is nice to say after the fact, however, someone made the decision before the event, that that kind of censorship was acceptable. I feel like there is a word for that...

ZOS_Kevin

To clarify, the point we are trying to make here is that the terms should not have been actionable in the first place, @Nomadic_Atmoran. We have addressed the issue internally to avoid this in the future.

spartaxoxo

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

Could you make a comment about the very heavy handed moderation around here as well? I have a good example if you'd like me to PM you, instead I'll talk in more general terms.

When you look back at all your posters with high post counts, nearly all of them are banned or inactive. People quit trying rather than losing their accounts and there are very few people actively posting with a post count that rivals mine despite this forum being many years old. When your oldest posters have such a massive ban rate en masse, it tends to show overly strict moderation rather than anything a particular individual did.

One thing I noticed is that "back and forth" seems to result in the most likely to be completely incomprehensible to outside observers, because what violated that rule is if the moderator felt that it wasn't a necessary discussion regardless if the people in that conversation could be regarded as flaming and trolling each or not.

In addition, a LOT of reports tend to flood very sensitive topics where people take big offense to disagreement they would not normally take offense to. But the moderation team seems not to take this into consideration and decide that if a conversation upset enough people even on a topic where people are easily upset because it's emotionally charged, it constitutes a ban worthy offense even though the exact same post would later be deemed acceptable because that person merely expressed an opinion.

You saw this in action with the PvP moderation in Twitch but it extends to this forum as well.

Zyva

I do feel like there must have been a reason a mod was under the impression it was appropriate to delete comments and give a time-out to anyone who said that term. Are people who care about pvp considered divisive? or was bringing up pvp in a stream mentioned to be something not wanted? I dont know, but its a feeling you walk away from even if it was "heavy-handed", it was still deemed a specific target for moderation.

Xandreia_

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

sadly the actions of mods and devs have left us pvpers ignored and we get next to no updates, while you have my full respect (thank you for actually talking to us and giving us what you can) i cant help but feel like we are completely forgotten and since the pvp update post from when mrs lamberts outburst happened we have heard nothing. would be nice to acknowledge the other half of the paying customers...

StevieKingslayer

Zenimax has always been too heavy handed. I once got timed out from their livestream for asking about pvp, and then another time I was timed out for entering their damn giveaway code I barely talk in their streams because no point, but two times I did and I got slammed with the ban hammer each time

Ratzkifal

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

Could you make a comment about the very heavy handed moderation around here as well? I have a good example if you'd like me to PM you, instead I'll talk in more general terms.

When you look back at all your posters with high post counts, nearly all of them are banned or inactive. People quit trying rather than losing their accounts and there are very few people actively posting with a post count that rivals mine despite this forum being many years old. When your oldest posters have such a massive ban rate en masse, it tends to show overly strict moderation rather than anything a particular individual did.

One thing I noticed is that "back and forth" seems to result in the most likely to be completely incomprehensible to outside observers, because what violated that rule is if the moderator felt that it wasn't a necessary discussion regardless if the people in that conversation could be regarded as flaming and trolling each or not.

In addition, a LOT of reports tend to flood very sensitive topics where people take big offense to disagreement they would not normally take offense to. But the moderation team seems not to take this into consideration and decide that if a conversation upset enough people even on a topic where people are easily upset because it's emotionally charged, it constitutes a ban worthy offense even though the exact same post would later be deemed acceptable because that person merely expressed an opinion.

You saw this in action with the PvP moderation in Twitch but it extends to this forum as well.

May I bring up the 89 page Bosmer stealth thread as an example of this.
That moderation was quite heavy-handed as well and to this day the only explanation given was:

Greetings! We've locked this thread to prevent any further spiraling and due to its non-constructive nature. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.

There was little to no "spiraling", it was constructive in nature right to the very end, yet it was closed for no good reason. We would have loved to have a more constructive discussion but the problem of that thread was that the Devs weren't communicating so there was nothing to discuss because of the radiosilence from the developers.

I would still like to get an answer on that topic to this day.

blktauna

If they don't want to address it, they should just ignore it, as they have been. Doing timeouts and message deletions makes they look bad.

ZOS_Kevin

@spartaxoxo, so we'll touch on this also. First, please feel free to PM me your specific example. Happy to review and discuss. Also, that is something anyone on the forum can do. We can chat about an issue and we can always talk to customer service to reevaluate actions as needed.

Moderation as you probably can guess isn't an exact science. Actions are taken based on the circumstances of the current situation and the history of those involved. We won't always get that right for a variety of reason. But we will continue to strive to get better and address situations as they occur. What should be noted here is in those back and forth conversations that get actioned, often times those escalate because either the parties start to include personal attacks or one of the parties has reported the other and a mod needs to figure out context by reading through the interactions and make a call based on our community guidelines. So it's a bit of a different ball game compared to live stream moderation.

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

BlossomDead

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

Yeah, lovely, you do you. But remember that when we're leaving, you're leaving too.

Ragged_Claw

Eh when every Twitch Steam chat and response to ZoS social media posts is filled with 'fix cyro' 'fix PvP' often accompanied by slurs and expletives, I can kinda see why this happened. It was heavy handed and I'm glad to see that acknowledged, but it has worn really thin seeing these comments over and over on content that has little or nothing to do with pvp. You see other twitch streamers who don't even work for ZoS getting these comments, even when they're streaming for charity ffs.I even had a response to a tweet of mine telling me that 'cyro sucks' only not so politely and I just tweet about the game lmao. Yelling 'fix PvP' over and over on posts advertising the new crown crate season or whatever is not going to do anything.

kieso

Let's be honest, 75% of us are only in cyrodiil for caltrops. 🙃