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Would you like to see the invincibility of guards removed...

  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    Yes
    The guards don't really serve any useful function, since there is no PvP in overland zones.

    The ONLY thing they're really there for is to interact with the Justice System. And, as such, they should be able to be killed.
  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    Yes
    I remember trying to level in lowbie zones in WoW and not being able to because high level players from the other faction kept killing the quest givers.

    Some NPCs should not be killable to avoid possible griefing situations.
    Which is not even REMOTELY a problem in ESO, since quest givers, merchants, and lots of named NPCs aren't killable in the first place.

    Until the introduction of the Justice System, guards in this game are a solution looking for a problem. As it stands now, their only meaningful contribution is to bounties.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    No
    If you take a modicum of care, Guards are a non issue.

    Guards can stay just the way they are, as they are the only thing that is a risk factor in Thievery
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • CP5
    CP5
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    No
    I remember trying to level in lowbie zones in WoW and not being able to because high level players from the other faction kept killing the quest givers.

    Some NPCs should not be killable to avoid possible griefing situations.
    Which is not even REMOTELY a problem in ESO, since quest givers, merchants, and lots of named NPCs aren't killable in the first place.

    Until the introduction of the Justice System, guards in this game are a solution looking for a problem. As it stands now, their only meaningful contribution is to bounties.

    The issue is, without guards risking to wipe even raids worth of players trying to cause unrest, all it would take is a guild going "why not" for a night and turning a city into a graveyard of clones. Speak of immersion, but that doesn't sound immersive, and from general gameplay it can be noticeable enough with one killer stabbing npcs, let alone a large group.
  • merpins
    merpins
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    Yes
    I don't agree with your suggestion, but I think they could make guards killable. I think make them as tough if not tougher than vet trial bosses with mechanics, and in order to kill one you'd have to team up with other players. Any guard that shows up after the first is on the level of a vet dungeon boss, and is a secondary mob that attacks with the boss but dies when the initial guard is killed like in a dungeon. Killing a guard removes your bounty, and you can only initiate a boss-battle with a guard if you have a bounty of over 100,000 gold.
    Edit: In fact with that in mind, they'd just need to make most guards in town normal guards with the mechanics and HP of a vet dungeon boss, and have a guard captain in each town that is the real boss, and you can only initiate the boss battle with the captain if you have 100k bounty. Death removes the bounty, so you'd needa kill it without dying.
    Edited by merpins on 16 January 2022 00:57
  • Tornaad
    Tornaad
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    Yes
    I don't agree with your suggestion, but I think they could make guards killable. I think make them as tough if not tougher than vet trial bosses with mechanics, and in order to kill one you'd have to team up with other players. Any guard that shows up after the first is on the level of a vet dungeon boss, and is a secondary mob that attacks with the boss but dies when the initial guard is killed like in a dungeon. Killing a guard removes your bounty, and you can only initiate a boss-battle with a guard if you have a bounty of over 100,000 gold.

    I like that idea.
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    No
    Checking in to see what the poll said now that it has been about a week. Interesting to see an overwhelming majority has voted for the status quo. More than double of those that voted to remove the invincibility of guards.

    This thread makes me recall the first time I accidentally stole in a city in Skyrim. The guards started coming through the door and eventually overwhelmed me. With the small number of guards in ESO it is so easy to avoid them and escape in most situations.
  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
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    Yes
    I voted yes and when a person kills or attacks a guard they get flagged for 5 mins and if your flagged you can attack them essentially allowing people to play bounty hunter and adding a open world PVP aspect.

    Don't like it? Don't kill a guard.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    No
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I voted yes and when a person kills or attacks a guard they get flagged for 5 mins and if your flagged you can attack them essentially allowing people to play bounty hunter and adding a open world PVP aspect.

    Don't like it? Don't kill a guard.

    This actually sounds like a neat compromise between killing guards, PvP justice, and keeping PvE focused players from getting shanked by a PvP justice system.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    No
    Vevvev wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I voted yes and when a person kills or attacks a guard they get flagged for 5 mins and if your flagged you can attack them essentially allowing people to play bounty hunter and adding a open world PVP aspect.

    Don't like it? Don't kill a guard.

    This actually sounds like a neat compromise between killing guards, PvP justice, and keeping PvE focused players from getting shanked by a PvP justice system.

    No. It doesn't. Games that do that often end up griefing because people purposefully drag guards into them to get am accidental attack so they can flag them for pvp.

    Not to mention it still devalues that people have invested into the justice system since it all revolves around helping you avoid the guards.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on 16 January 2022 02:11
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    No
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I voted yes and when a person kills or attacks a guard they get flagged for 5 mins and if your flagged you can attack them essentially allowing people to play bounty hunter and adding a open world PVP aspect.

    Don't like it? Don't kill a guard.

    This actually sounds like a neat compromise between killing guards, PvP justice, and keeping PvE focused players from getting shanked by a PvP justice system.

    No. It doesn't. Games that do that often end up griefing because people purposefully drag guards into them to get am accidental attack so they can flag them for pvp.

    Not to mention it still devalues that people have invested into the justice system since it all revolves around helping you avoid the guards.

    If guards are straight up high multi million HP boss fights if you kill one you deliberately went out of your freaking way to do it.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    No
    Vevvev wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I voted yes and when a person kills or attacks a guard they get flagged for 5 mins and if your flagged you can attack them essentially allowing people to play bounty hunter and adding a open world PVP aspect.

    Don't like it? Don't kill a guard.

    This actually sounds like a neat compromise between killing guards, PvP justice, and keeping PvE focused players from getting shanked by a PvP justice system.

    No. It doesn't. Games that do that often end up griefing because people purposefully drag guards into them to get am accidental attack so they can flag them for pvp.

    Not to mention it still devalues that people have invested into the justice system since it all revolves around helping you avoid the guards.

    If guards are straight up high multi million HP boss fights if you kill one you deliberately went out of your freaking way to do it.

    1)Griefer gets guard low health
    2) drags fight into people they want grief
    3) some victim accidentally attacks guard
    4) ???
    5) profit

    Eta

    Also the suggestion states even attacking the guard flags you
    Edited by spartaxoxo on 16 January 2022 02:26
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
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    No
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I voted yes and when a person kills or attacks a guard they get flagged for 5 mins and if your flagged you can attack them essentially allowing people to play bounty hunter and adding a open world PVP aspect.

    Don't like it? Don't kill a guard.

    This actually sounds like a neat compromise between killing guards, PvP justice, and keeping PvE focused players from getting shanked by a PvP justice system.

    No. It doesn't. Games that do that often end up griefing because people purposefully drag guards into them to get am accidental attack so they can flag them for pvp.

    Not to mention it still devalues that people have invested into the justice system since it all revolves around helping you avoid the guards.

    If guards are straight up high multi million HP boss fights if you kill one you deliberately went out of your freaking way to do it.

    1)Griefer gets guard low health
    2) drags fight into people they want grief
    3) some victim accidentally attacks guard
    4) ???
    5) profit

    Eta

    Also the suggestion states even attacking the guard flags you

    Yeah, been there done that in two other "optional pvp flagged" mmos. Yuck.
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    See Comment
    1. Why? What purpose would it serve?
    2. Would you be willing to have them delete your character and all inventory when they lost the fight?
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Tornaad
    Tornaad
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    Yes
      2. Would you be willing to have them delete your character and all inventory when they lost the fight?

    I'm not sure how that relates to this or what you are trying to say?
    Edited by Tornaad on 16 January 2022 05:31
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    No
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I voted yes and when a person kills or attacks a guard they get flagged for 5 mins and if your flagged you can attack them essentially allowing people to play bounty hunter and adding a open world PVP aspect.

    Don't like it? Don't kill a guard.

    This actually sounds like a neat compromise between killing guards, PvP justice, and keeping PvE focused players from getting shanked by a PvP justice system.

    No. It doesn't. Games that do that often end up griefing because people purposefully drag guards into them to get am accidental attack so they can flag them for pvp.

    Not to mention it still devalues that people have invested into the justice system since it all revolves around helping you avoid the guards.

    If guards are straight up high multi million HP boss fights if you kill one you deliberately went out of your freaking way to do it.

    1)Griefer gets guard low health
    2) drags fight into people they want grief
    3) some victim accidentally attacks guard
    4) ???
    5) profit

    Eta

    Also the suggestion states even attacking the guard flags you

    Guards don't accost or engage people when they're already in combat with someone else. The griefer would be the only target, and their AoE attacks and stuff are only targeted at aggressors. It's already anti-grief.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    No
    Vevvev wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I voted yes and when a person kills or attacks a guard they get flagged for 5 mins and if your flagged you can attack them essentially allowing people to play bounty hunter and adding a open world PVP aspect.

    Don't like it? Don't kill a guard.

    This actually sounds like a neat compromise between killing guards, PvP justice, and keeping PvE focused players from getting shanked by a PvP justice system.

    No. It doesn't. Games that do that often end up griefing because people purposefully drag guards into them to get am accidental attack so they can flag them for pvp.

    Not to mention it still devalues that people have invested into the justice system since it all revolves around helping you avoid the guards.

    If guards are straight up high multi million HP boss fights if you kill one you deliberately went out of your freaking way to do it.

    1)Griefer gets guard low health
    2) drags fight into people they want grief
    3) some victim accidentally attacks guard
    4) ???
    5) profit

    Eta

    Also the suggestion states even attacking the guard flags you

    Guards don't accost or engage people when they're already in combat with someone else. The griefer would be the only target, and their AoE attacks and stuff are only targeted at aggressors. It's already anti-grief.

    You enter combat with the guard if you attack them or even heal them while someone else is attacking. You also get a bounty.

    Whether the guard is taunted on you or not, anyone who strikes a guard when in combat with another player gets "credit" for attacking them, same as any other mob.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on 16 January 2022 14:06
  • Varana
    Varana
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    No
    There is a reason why trial bosses with mechanics and 100 million health get their own separate arena that is limited to a 12-man group.
    Now imagine the game trying to cope with 10 trial bosses in an open area, being fought over by several groups and ungrouped players at once, while taking other NPCs and players into account.
    Not to speak of how "immersive" that would be.

    And that's the second thing. I really don't understand how "this is a simple town guard but for some reason, he is as strong as only a very few select evil overlords" is any more "immersive" than "this is a simple town guard, and for videogame reasons, he's unkillable". Yes, guards being invincible is unrealistic. But all the alternatives being presented so far are at least as much, or even more so.
    In the context of the Justice system, invincible guards are actually a decent substitute to create an immersive experience. They're a fix for the video game convention that lets you, the player, get ridiculously overpowered for some reason, and they exist to make the experience of stealing and hiding from the law even possible at all.
    Edited by Varana on 16 January 2022 14:10
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    No
    Varana wrote: »
    They exist to make the experience of stealing and hiding from the law even possible at all.

    This right here is a massive reason. They create the entire difficulty scale of the justice system and are what make it a progressive activity. There's zero reason why someone who has not invested in stealth at all should be just as capable of walking away from higher risk justice activities as someone who has maxed out their capabilities. If you want to steal from that safebox in that tiny room with the guard, invest in sneaking.
  • Cillion3117
    Cillion3117
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    No
    I do have to admit that it is a real bummer when the savior of Nirn gets taken out so easily by a random guard in a random small village. They should just send the guards up against Molag Bal.
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    See Comment
    Zuboko wrote: »
    2. Would you be willing to have them delete your character and all inventory when they (Your character) lost the fight?

    I'm not sure how that relates to this or what you are trying to say?
    @Zuboko It's consequence if you lose the fight in return for being able to potentially kill guards.

    A little bit of repair cost and perhaps some bounty gold is the only thing on the table in the current setting. You don't lose souls, gear, or progress.

    If you're really wanting to be able to potentially eliminate guards, i think they should have the potential to eliminate your character. If you're after the challenge, make it so there is actual risk to the reward.

    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Tornaad
    Tornaad
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    Yes
    Zuboko wrote: »
    2. Would you be willing to have them delete your character and all inventory when they (Your character) lost the fight?

    I'm not sure how that relates to this or what you are trying to say?
    @Zuboko It's consequence if you lose the fight in return for being able to potentially kill guards.

    A little bit of repair cost and perhaps some bounty gold is the only thing on the table in the current setting. You don't lose souls, gear, or progress.

    If you're really wanting to be able to potentially eliminate guards, i think they should have the potential to eliminate your character. If you're after the challenge, make it so there is actual risk to the reward.

    No.
    That's like saying Skyrim is broken because my Character does not get deleted when a guard kills me.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    See Comment
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Varana wrote: »
    They exist to make the experience of stealing and hiding from the law even possible at all.

    This right here is a massive reason. They create the entire difficulty scale of the justice system and are what make it a progressive activity. There's zero reason why someone who has not invested in stealth at all should be just as capable of walking away from higher risk justice activities as someone who has maxed out their capabilities. If you want to steal from that safebox in that tiny room with the guard, invest in sneaking.

    to go along with this, if there were no guards, bounty would be meaningless (it could go up to infinity or decay to 0, but without someone to accost you for it, its a meaningless stat)

    if guards in their current form were killable, it would be way to easy to spend the next few min until they respawned slaughtering all of the NPCs in the area with virtually no repercussion

    the guards are the only negative consequence to getting a bounty, get killed by a guard and you lose gold + stolen items, literally nothing else will do that in the current system
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Arunei
    Arunei
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    Zuboko wrote: »
    2. Would you be willing to have them delete your character and all inventory when they (Your character) lost the fight?

    I'm not sure how that relates to this or what you are trying to say?
    @Zuboko It's consequence if you lose the fight in return for being able to potentially kill guards.

    A little bit of repair cost and perhaps some bounty gold is the only thing on the table in the current setting. You don't lose souls, gear, or progress.

    If you're really wanting to be able to potentially eliminate guards, i think they should have the potential to eliminate your character. If you're after the challenge, make it so there is actual risk to the reward.
    There's a different between there being a risk and then outlandish suggestions. A challenge doesn't mean potentially losing everything of value on a character. Especially because it's entirely possible to accidentally aggro a guard you never intended to fight. If you use an AoE heal or buff that hits someone fighting a guard, you'll get flagged for combat.

    Refreshing Path is one thing I can think of that people use, it increases your speed and heals you. NBs use it to get around faster, but if someone tosses it down and then a person fighting a guard runs over it, well, there you go, now you're flagged and could potentially lose all your stuff as well as that character because of something you didn't do.
    Character List [RP and PvE]:
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    Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
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    Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
    Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
    Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
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  • Ankahet
    Ankahet
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    No
    Zuboko wrote: »
    Would you like to see the invincibility of guards removed and specifically also to have something like giving them 10 million health and every time you get one down to half another shows up?

    I voted no as they don't really bother me, even on my thief. I have a feeling this post may be coming from someone whom steals a lot and is tired of being caught or killed by them.
  • Ardan147
    Ardan147
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    See Comment
    I would make it possible to kill individual guards, but if you do another one (and possibly even more than one) would immediately spawn, and you would end up with an even bigger bounty for doing so.
    This creature called a songbird. What a devious creation! This winged nuisance erodes sanity with its incessant chirping. What a brilliant form of torture!
  • dmnqwk
    dmnqwk
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    No
    In a world of magic, I'd be happy to see them become killable, provided magic kicks in that anyone who brings a guard down to 50% health or lower is teleported to a 'jail' wherein they must have a conversation informing them that how magic protects those who wear the protector garb and pay a fine for doing so.

    I mean, anyone arguing 'it kills their immersion' is failing to appreciate that allowing you to carry your weapons in town in full view of anyone 'kills the immersion' or letting you remain alive after attacking a guard 'kills it too'.

  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    Yes
    CP5 wrote: »
    The issue is, without guards risking to wipe even raids worth of players trying to cause unrest, all it would take is a guild going "why not" for a night and turning a city into a graveyard of clones. Speak of immersion, but that doesn't sound immersive, and from general gameplay it can be noticeable enough with one killer stabbing npcs, let alone a large group.
    I would be PERFECTLY okay with that.

    That would break my immersion a LOT less than dozens of invincible guards running around with power levels that make the heroes of the story (you and me) look like an afterthought.

    ;)
  • Wolf_Eye
    Wolf_Eye
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    No
    Someone has to clean up the streets. Might as well be an army of invincible Supermen!
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